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......it simply makes no sense!
This is a question that has niggled at me for years but I have never once read a convincing answer explaining why he had to die ?
By all accounts it stems back to the Garden of Eden and "original sin", but this doesn't explain why Jesus had to die for forgiveness our sins.
God- being god could just as well have said - `ok Stephen all that was in the past and you are no more responsible for what those pair - Adam & Eve -did back at the beginning no more than you are responsible for the slave trade that I am still allowing to happen over a quarter of the globe' , - but he didn't. Why?.
Odd it is that he was making "new" covenants every once in a while but never included a pardon for the past.
We are called to "wash away our sins" by John the Baptist yet when we undergo this ritual, we , it seems, still need a man to then suffer and die for our forgiveness for sins that have already been "washed away" in the baptism ritual.
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Matthew 5:44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies.
Matthew 5:39. Turn the other cheek.
Luke 6:27. Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you.
Ephesians 4:32. Forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.
Matthew 6:12-14 And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us........
..............and on and on it goes, love and forgive, love and forgive. . That is until we get to Judas, where we read from the lips of Jesus god himself his dire warning of vengeance.:
"BUT WOE TO THE MAN BY WHOME THE SON OF MAN IS BETRAYED! GOOD WERE IT FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NEVR BEEN BORN". [ now hurry up and betray me Judas,quickly] Mark 14:21
We can just feel and see the warm compassion and forgiveness in those words of vengeance can't we? We can also see all those verses about Love and forgiveness go flying clean out of the window too.
Acceptable to Christians that this vengeful warning may be, and as contradictory to the fluffy nature that the scriptures attempt to portray Jesus to be, Christians have to realise that everything that Judas did, was all preordained by god himself , if we are to believe all the prophecies were being carried out. According to Christians and the Bible, this is what " must" happen and Jesus "spoke plainly " about what "must"happen too. Mark 8:31-32. So why the vengeful threat towards Judas, who didn't seem to flinch at the thought of the woe's that awaited him?
We can pick up the story at the last supper where Jesus announces in his usual cryptic fashion that he is about to be betrayed by one of those that dips his bread in the dinner bowel. Which at that point could have been any of them considering this is how a meal was eaten in those times, ie. everyone dipping bread into the same bowl of what ever was on offer.
The protests of "not me Lord" "who is it Lord" and " I would never do that to you Lord " are aplenty . Then-we read that Satan entering Judas and Jesus instructing Judas to go do what he is about to do and to do it quickly.John 13:27. All preordained see. So why the vengeful threat to his betrayer?
As an aside:
Odd isn't it that no one present asked why Judas was leaving the party at night in the dark. There are various excuses made for Judas' sudden disappearance but as usual they simply don't stack up. It is said some thought he was going to buy supplies for the supper, ....that they had already eaten.
But among those things that should stand out is the fact that Satan has entered Judas...... and no one recognised it!? Do the heavily relied on Old Testament for prophecies mention anything about Satan being involved in Jesus' betrayal? NO. The only 'prophecy' that is said to foretell of the betrayal that has been latched onto is Zechariah 11:12-13.
So here we have Judas being warned about doing what he is about to do, and on Jesus` word he goes out into the night to do what he had been instructed to do. But he will wish he had never been born when he does so.
Why hadn't a single one of those present recognized a demon when they seen one and cast him out? nearly 100 of his disciples had only recently been bragging about how they had cast out demons after being endowed with superpowers.Luke 10:17
And nowhere, in the whole of the scriptures will anyone read of anyone praying for love and the forgiveness of Judas...............Or Satan, come to think of it.
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Extract:
"I’m done with grandstanding cops, dancing for YouTube, wearing rainbows as self promotion, kneeling for a twitter photo, lecturing the public about things that shouldn’t concern us, forgetting we are the law police, not the public morals police, Im done with them doing anything other rather than actual policing. I’m done with the false narrative that suggests this is the norm and that all cops are more interested in being woke social workers than doing their job. A false narrative we have facilitated by allowing this self indulgent, shameless self promotion of a few individuals, to proliferate."
Read the full column;
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Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages.
saying : "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...
While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed.
The ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq. Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Abraham) attended a meeting in the wilderness with the powerful, Shiite Muslim religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. God only knows what they had to discuss out there in the desert but I am reminded of the pointless biblical story of god via "the spirit" sending Jesus - his son- into the desert to be tempted and propositioned and to come to some kind of agreement- that failed by all accounts..
Who knows what they discussed, there were only two present at the time, is all we have of the account is some made up nonsense where Jesus prevails, well he would wouldn't he?
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Less than half way through Luke's gospel there are two verses that appear to simply come out of nowhere that have nothing to do with the preceding story lines in the chapter and neither the succeeding lines. The two verses are sandwiched between _ an argument that had started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest, at Luke 9: 46-48, and the rejection of Jesus from a Samaritan village. Luke 9: 51-55.
Luke: 49 “Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
Who was he?
Did Jesus - god - son of god - know who this "someone" was?
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This is not a new debate on this particular story, however;
while atheist have come to expect many contradictions in the anomalous half stories that make up scriptures the telling of this particular event in the life of Christ seem to be an exception in that they don’t appear to be contradictory; but are these reported events the same story? If so, why is Luke’s account distinguishable from the other gospels?
Luke7:36-37
Jesus invited to the home of Simon the Pharisee.
“And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat. A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them”.
Jesus at the home of Simon the Leper
Matthew26:6-7 Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper,a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he reclined at table.
Mark14:3 And while he was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper,as he was reclining at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head.
John12:3
“Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.”
Some believe these are different events while many other scholars agree that this is the same event told to varying degrees of detail.
One can pick over the detail of this story but they all do appear to amount to one thing; Jesus is undergoing an anointing ritual/s of sorts. But are these two separate anointings or one.?"
Side by side
(1) Sinner Woman . Mary of Bethany
(2) Luke 7. Matt 26, Mark 14, John 12
(3) In Nain. In Bethany.
(3) Simon the Pharisee’s house. Simon the leper’s house.
(4) Poured on His feet. Poured on His head and feet.
(5) Washed feet with her tears. No mention of washing feet with tears.
(6) Wiped feet with her hair. Wiped feet with her hair.
(7) Simon sees the woman as sinful . Judas sees it as a waste of money.
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"the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.
More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...
It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?
Oedipus c 450 BC, was a mythical Greek king of Thebes. A tragic hero in Greek mythology, Oedipus is believed to have fulfilled a prophecy (accidentally) that he would end up killing his father and marrying his mother, thereby bringing disaster to his city and family.
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“ Why are you trying to kill me?”“You are demon-possessed,”the crowd answered. 7: 19-20
Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?” John8:48
Jesus's own family appear to agree with those that wanted to kill him too.....
saying : "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?" John10:20– Mark3:21
Was Jesus sick, or mad, or possessed as the scriptures describe. It is all doubtful isn't that the son of god aka god to Christians , could be possessed isn't it?
So is there a single explanation why these Jews, including Jesus' own family which included the handpicked virgin herself - Mary mother of God - would even suggest that Jesus son of god was possessed with a demon?
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Jesus tempter was the Devil we are told.
Mathew4:1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Right off the bat this story falls apart if it is to be taken literally?Because immediately the “devil” begins his test by saying;
4:3“If you are the Son of God.” [?]command that these stones be made bread”.
When that didn’t go down as the devil thought it might, he had another go:
4:6 “If thou be the Son of God” [?] cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee”….
When this didn’t appear to bare fruit, the devil changed tactics by trying a bribe.
Mathew4: 8 Again,the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”.
IF!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.
It should be noticed too that, just like there was no witness to the conversation between Pilate and Jesus, or Nicodemus and Jesus, here too there wasn’t a single witness to this meeting in the desert, so how do the gospel writers know what was said? I do hope the Christians here will explain that for us?
Anyway,Jesus, you may not be surprised, refused the bribe and passed the test! And why wouldn’t he have? He was god and the son of god also wasn’t he, and everybody knew it didn’t they………. accept the devil it seems.
So how come that old devil Satan didn’t even recognise god when he seen him!?
After all, didn’t he exist with all the other heavenly beings even before mankind? Doesn’t Luke's gospel speak of Satan falling from that heavenly abode? Luke 10:18
Didn't god once tell Satan to his face that he would be on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days? Genesis3:14
We know too that the devil had wagered face to face with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7. (Christians have never explained how it came pass that Satan came to be “walking here and there”, roaming around the earth.” after being sentenced to crawl and eat dirt for ever?)
How is it that the “demon” calling himself legion recognised god/son of god and Satan didn’t? “He shouted at the top of his voice,“What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Mark5:7
It appears that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.
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As a follow on from this thread concerning Jesus' own biblical contradictions where not a single Christian has taken on the challenge to explain here>> Titled:
If These Were Not Jesus' Own Contradictory Words....
....there is also the obvious blatant lie (one of many) told by the Christ himself that Christians will also have to explain or put into "context" for us.
Jesus is under arrest and is being interrogated at his first trial by the high priesthood where he claims:
John 18: 19-21.
“I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said" .
But is this true?
Answer, no, it isn't true by any means.
Just two of many examples are:
We know for instance that Jesus met with a rich Pharisee named Nicodemus a "ruler of the Jews" in secret under the cover of darkness where it is said that Jesus taught him about the mysteries "of the kingdom of god". John 3:1-3
And there is the famous quote where Jesus admits to secret teachings for one section of the Jewish population while withholding such secrets teaching from others:
Hereplied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom ofheaven has been given to you, but not to them". Matthew 13:10-12.
Can the faithful explain these lies told by the Christ himself?
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After all of the witnessing of “miracles & wonders” by hundreds of thousands of Jewish people and hundreds of thousands more hearing those wonderful sermons about selling your worldly goods to give “poor” and buy swords, it appears that the short minded and forgetful Jews still couldn’t recognise a “messiah” when they seen and heard one in action. Or could they?
The crowds, we are told were so desperate to watch this man Jesus work his miracles and wonders that they would climb trees to get just a glimpse of him or cut holes in the roof of the house just to get a better view and be nearer to him. Mark3:20 – Mark4:1 – Luke 7:11 – Luke 8:19 Luke 12:1. Thousands upon thousands had also travelled long distances too:
“many people came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon”. Mark 3:7-9
And it is said that just a glimpse of Jesus was enough to have the Jews“overwhelmed with wonder” and clamouring to greet him”. Mark9:14
So to say he was `held in high esteem` doesn't even cover it does it.
How then could it all suddenly be forgotten by thousands of people that had witnessed Jesus healing the sick and making dead people alive again on so many occasions? What about all those wedding guests that he had kept in booze all day, John2:1-11, had even they too forgot this “miracle”?
Where were the five thousand and the four thousand that had heard the sermons spoken by the “son of god” himself and who had fed every single one of them? Matthew 14:13-21, Matthew 15:29-39.
Pilate asked them, "Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?" Matthew27:17;
“Barabbas,”they answered. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Luke23:25 offers a little more information by telling us that:
“He released the man [Barabbas] who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, but he delivered Jesus over to their will”.
So these ungrateful Jews- those he had actaully been sent so save - it appears, preferred it that a murder was let loose amongst them to run the streets.
Why then did the multitude of Jews choose the murdering zealot Jesus Barabbas over the son of god and prince of peace Jesus the Messiah?Jesus after all, was the messiah allegedly prophesied about in the OT and recognise to be the messiah by non other than John the baptist,“the greatest prophet that was ever born of woman” Matthew11:8-11.
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Example:Thomas, a disciple of Christ.
Thomas had witnessed with his own eyes “miracles” performed by Jesus such as raising - back to life, the dead 4 days old rotting corpse of Lazarus the friend that “Jesus loved” and wept over. (No mention of Jesus ever shedding a single tear over “the greatest prophet" his cousin John the Baptist).
Jesus, Thomas’ rabbi , is crucified, dead and entombed. And then,depending on which version we choose to believe, Jesus first appears either to, Mary, or some Marys’ or Peter or Cleopas etc? But suddenly, Thomas,on hearing about the once “dead” corpse of Christ walking around and being alive again, refused to believe Jesus is indeed alive after the crucifixion and after laying for three days in a private tomb belonging to a rich friend in private walled garden..(Joseph of Arimathea obviously won’t be entering into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19:24).
Thomas did not believe it was truly him despite being told, twice!, prior to the incident by Jesus son of god, that he would rise again in three days.!? And despite his own witnessing of the miracle of miracles the“raising of Lazarus”?. Why follow a man right up until his death, hanging on every word of all his preaching that he will rise from the dead, then suddenly, and without explanation, refuse to believe what he was being told by Mary, or the Mary’s or Peter or Cleopas or anyone? There is no indication given before this time that Thomas had any reason to disbelieve or “doubt” his master god/Jesus.
Oddly, when Mary – the first to see him- tried to touch Jesus on seeing him in the private garden owned by his rich friend, he refused her,but when Thomas required physical proof Jesus invited Thomas to touch him and feel the wounds in his body, as to offer physical proof.
As is usual with these ambiguous half stories we are never told what happened there-after and we are simply left with Jesus saying: , “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”.John20:29.What does that actually mean? Can we only take that to mean believed through faith alone and without a single piece of hard physical evidence?
The point is, why doesn’t god extend and afford the same privilege of proof to humans alive today?
Those today that doubt gods/Jesus' existence are no different than Thomas,requiring physical proof and he was a disciple of Jesus himself. If Thomas had been born just a year on from the crucifixion, or even living today, would he be refused a place in the heavenly paradise because he would not believe for the lack of physical proof?
Is it too much to ask and question? I am often accused by Christians of“mocking and humiliating” them (all untrue ), but at least I am not killing them. Yet Paul made it his mission to seek out and destroy Christians although he was born after the death and accession of Christ. Then one day, without even asking never mind believing, in a flash he got a visit from god himself !!!!!? Again, how this happened also varies depending on who’s “gospel truth” one chooses to believe, but it was an appearance by the lord god himself, all the same... according to the bible.
Why isn’t Jesus willing to show the disbelievers today the same degree of physical proof? Why should we be treated any different from Thomas –a disciple - and Paul a disbelieving persecutor and murderer of early Christians?
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.....then the who put them into the mouth of the Christ?
Equal then not equal
John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".John 14:28 “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .
I judge then I don't judge
John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".John 8:15 " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.John 12:47 " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.
John 8:14 “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".John 5:31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
Man is not my witness. Man is my witness .
John 33-34 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.John 15:27 "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel.
And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" .
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"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”. John14:6
What does this mean in its full context? Do I have to, for instance, believe Jesus died for my sins, or do I only have to believe in Jesus? Do I have to believe in the resurrection? Would it make me holy and acceptable for a place in heaven if I believed one or all the above?
John's gospel also says “ Jesus answered,“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John6:29.
Is this implying that if I believe he was from god then I would go to heaven?
Could it be argued that Jesus doesn’t use specifics by saying “ No one comes to the Father except through me [and only me]”.?
What had all those millions of Jews been believing in before Jesus came along that appears to disqualify them a place in “heaven” with their “father” unless they all started to believe in him? Which we know that many didn't.
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Christians have been deceiving themselves for millennia
Jesus himself makes it perfectly clear why he had returned to Jerusalem:
"I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel", he says. Matthew15:24 Well who else?
Jesus was a Jew (of the tribe of Judah). And believed himself to be King of all Israel. All the 12 houses/Tribes of Israel were Israelites that had been scattered throughout the known world by the time of Jesus.
God said: “And I will make you a great nation”.
After King Solomon had died, the Israelites divided their kingdom in two.The north became Israel with 10 tribes. The other two tribes in the south were called Judah. Jesus was of the house of Judah and it was to the lost sheep that made up all 12 houses (Israel) that he had specifically “been sent”to re-unite as Mathew15:24 makes perfectly clear.
In fact the bible tells us that “all Israel“ are “sons of of god”! And the praise of “all” of Israel doesn’t stop there; it goes further telling us that all Jews are “gods”!!!!;
Psalm82:6
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High. Exodus4:22 “Israel is my firstborn son”.
Not a Christian included or a Christian in sight. No matter how much one argues this biblical fact with a Christian, they will always deny it and attempt to reinterpret it and tell us - ‘what Jesus meant ‘.
It should come as no surprise to any atheist that just this one word “ONLY” becomes two completely different words - “all nations”when the Christian attempt to explain away and reinterpret this biblical fact of ‘what Jesus actually meant’. It is nothing more than an attempt to include themselves into the Jew/Israelite god sheep fold.
This of course is clutching at straws, these straws;
Mark16:15 KJV “And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature”, with Matthew 28:19-20 saying similar “all nations” ……….
………..which goes nowhere to explain why Christians are of the mistaken belief that Jesus “was sent to save them”!? Besides, Jesus also says this to his disciples: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew10: 5-6.<<that would be the lost sheep of the nations of Jacob/Israel and Jesus clearly making a distinction between those that are his “lost sheep” and those that are not.
One would think that Christians would have taken the hint considering that not a single one of the four evangelists, Matthew,Mark, Luke, nor John,even mention the words Christian or Christians!? And neither did Jesus.
And even after the death of Jesus the word is only mentioned less than a handful of times!!!
Acts26:28 and Acts 11:26, “The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch ” Syria where there were hundreds of thousands of diaspora (scattered) Jews and those verses were written in Greek nearly 100 years after the crucifixion.
And 1 Peter 4:16 “However,if you suffer as a Christian”, – (dates vary) 65- 85 years after the fact.
And of course it is common knowledge that Jesus failed in his mission to unite these 12 Israelite houses and even to this day they remain dispersed all over the globe.
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How could Gabriel get it so wrong?
Luke1:26-38
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David”:
Depending on who one chooses to believe, Jesus’ ministry lasted one year(some argue three+ years) and in that time is all he seemed to have managed to do was attempt to reunite the lost tribes or “lost sheep” of Israel and failed, surround himself with rich zealots,and other rich individuals of power and influence, upset the ruling classes, say some philosophical sounding and bias things and inherited nothing but three nails, two bits of wood, a very thorny crown with a lovely view overlooking the Kidron Valley as he hung their suffering on the crucifix made from said materials.
This is far from a throne of any description isn’t it? Especially the “great throne covered with ivory and overlaid with fine gold.” of King David,> > > 1Kings 10:18 and all the tonnes & tonnes of gold and the tonnes and tonnes of silver that he couldn’t seem to find use for so had simply left just lying around in the street. > > >1Kings 10:27
What happened!!!!?
What had gone so wrong with gods plan to send a saviour Messiah that would unite the “lost sheep of Israel” and free Israel from the Roman yoke!? AND inherit the throne of King David?
Gabriel mentions nothing to Mary the mother of this very special“immaculately” conceived child about his failed mission on earth and of him suffering such a barbaric and violent death. Why did he keep this from her? And what about the- all of a sudden absentee“father”, Joseph? He seems to have been written out of the story altogether and less informed about his child god’s failed mission and barbaric early demise? Maybe Joseph had a visit of his own telling him to get out of town before the shit hits the fan? It is not as if he knew nothing of the “immaculate conception” or the birth is it?> > > Matthew1:20.
Even simple human doctors are compassionate enough inform the parents of children born with god given defects of what the outcome of their child's life is likely to be. But in this case we have a messenger of god no less, telling this chosen “virgin” outright lies about the fate of her son.
Why?
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Where was he?
Jesus said said to his followers that some of them would live to witness his return to earth:“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
So it is clearly Jesus himself states that he will be seen again in that generation of that time and that it was to happen some time during the generation of those to whom he was speaking. It cannot be made more clear to his audience that this event would not be in the distant future, he told them that some of them who were there listening to him would still be alive to see it.
Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64. And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:
2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.
Does a single one of those he made the promise to mention his return "coming on a cloud"? It will be interesting to hear what Christians have to say about this abysmal damp squib of a failure to keep a promise, his promise.
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Matthew7:7-8
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
100 verses preaching the importance of payer;
“the parents believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her and summoned others to do the same”.A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/07/couple-sentenced-daughter-prayer-death
December 14 2019.
Church attempts resurrection of a dead two year old child, through Prayer
“We have a precedent” said Pastor Bill, “Jesus raised the dead”.
He said “there was no time limit on how much longer the prayers and singing would continue, but added that the child remained at the county coroner's office”.
Interesting that Jesus also commanded any one that followed him to:
“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give”. Matthew 10:7-8 .
They appear to have done everything by the book too:
“'Since that night, and at the continued request of the Heiligenthal family, Bethel Church has hosted prayer and worship gatherings which consist of singing and prayer,' the church said in a statement”.
Interesting it is that the bible informs its adherents to continue praying! And to “never give up”. Luke 18.
The baby’s funeral was eventually held December22.
What happened here ? “Ye of little faith”or the wrong faith?
It appears that the only thing “raised” during this whole sad sorry saga was $62,000 (“unforeseen expenses”don’t you know) via a GoFundMe page. I can hear Pastor Bill sermonising Acts 2:45 as I write.
Members of the Followers of Christ Church whose members rely on prayer and had prayed for their sick newborn baby instead of taking her to the hospital are charged with murder. “The infant died just hours after she was born”. This couple was expecting twins, one had already died at birth and they prayed to god and Jesus that the other would survive. It didn’t.
“Dale and Shannon HIckman, were convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to six years in prison for the death of their newborn infant.”
In all of three cases (and many more) every single religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers.
WTF happened!!?
Was it because these grieving faithful parents“babbled far too much” ?Matthew 6:7
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Matthew 6:19-20
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
So putting things away for a rainy day is pointless , according to god-Jesus. And one could suppose that would make sense if the end was indeed, nigh? 1 Peter 4:7
I wonder then why is it that members of his "chosen people" were showered in riches beyond the dreams of any poor widow that has had her house stolen from her by the deceit of Chaplains, Priests and Pastors in "fancy robes" ? Luke 20:47
If we take just one example: Solomon. The list of his riches is simply mind boggling,it really is. Just one visit from one foreign dignitary earned him:
1 Kings 10:10- 29
10 And she gave the king 120 talents[of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones. Never again were so many spices brought in as those the queen of Sheba gave to King Solomon.
11 (Hiram’s ships brought gold from Ophir; and from there they brought great cargoes of almugwood and precious stones.
14 The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,
16 King Solomon made two hundred large shields of hammered gold; six hundred shekels of gold went into each shield. 17 He also made three hundred small shields of hammered gold, with three minas of gold in each shield. The king put them in the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon.
18 Then the king made a great throne covered with ivory and overlaid with fine gold. .................
21 All King Solomon’s goblets were gold, and all the household articles in the Palace of the Forest of Lebanon were pure gold.
Don't laugh , but 21 >>> "Nothing was made of silver, because silver was considered of little value in Solomon’s days" . Apparently, silver to Solomon , was as common as "stones on the ground".
23 King Solomon was greater in riches and wisdom than all the other kings of the earth. —articles of silver and gold, robes, weapons and spices, and horses and mules.
27 The king made silver as common in Jerusalem as stones,
Well if that one example didn't make your eyes water then nothing will.
Jesus tells us that: " it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."Matthew 19:24
He instructed a man that was rich to give away all his worldly goods to "the poor" Matthew 19:21 <<< again, what would be the point of the poor having this rich mans hard earned wealth if the end was nigh?
And Jesus appears to have surrounded himself with rich men and women and people of influence?
So we see on the one hand , Jesus telling everyone else to give away everything, while on the other he has rich friends and says nothing about the obscene wealth of Solomon, one of his own chosen people.
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This brave woman walked freely around and empty Gloucester hospital here in the U.K filming as she went. This is supposed to be one of those hospitals that are overwhelmed, understaffed and has a shortage of beds.
Empty Hospital. Certainly no overwhelmed and rushed off their feet staff here.
Her arrest by what can only be described as Nazis " only carrying out their orders ".
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Science and Nature
This brave woman walked freely around and empty Gloucester hospital here in the U.K filming as she went. This is supposed to be one of those hospitals that are overwhelmed, understaffed and has a shortage of beds.
Empty Hospital. Certainly no overwhelmed and rushed off their feet staff here.
Her arrest by what can only be described as Nazis " only carrying out their orders ".
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From the conception of John until his death, everything is suspect and can be questioned.
I am always amazed that Christians will accept the first thing they are told about the conception, life and death of John the baptist who , according to god Jesus was " the greatest prophet that ever lived".Luke 7:28.
John's conception by a "barren woman" Elizabeth , said to be Marry's cousin, is nothing new to anyone that has ever read the scriptures for themselves. It is a story that is repeated over and over and one has to wonder what it is that god has about "barren women"? Because there are at least five other biblical women that are also said to be child baring barren women—
Isaac’s mother, Sarah (Gen. 11:30; 21:1-2) who had married Abraham
Jacob’s mother, Rebekah (Gen. 25:21) who had married Isaac.
Joseph’s mother, Rachel (Gen. 29:31; 30:22) who had married Jacob
Samson’s mother, who was unnamed (Judg. 13:1-3) and had married Manoah
Samuel’s mother, Hannah (1 Sam. 1:5-6, 20) who had married Elkana.
The questions surrounding John keep mounting up and they cannot be explained away without the theist invoking the supernatural .
If we put the recycled story of all of these "barren women" giving birth aside for now, the first question that should be asked is :
considering that all first born were to be killed on orders Herod, Matthew 2:16(another recycled story) there is no mention of this priestly family fleeing anywhere to safety as did the Jesus family?
Why no visit from an "angel" showing any concern for the safety of the first born of barren women chosen by god to be "greatest prophet that ever lived" and the forerunner to god Jesus himself? Is all we know is that "Zechariah went home" after receiving the news and performing temple duties, Luke 1: 23, and that for at least the last five months of her pregnancy Elizabeth, the barren woman chosen by god to bare the greatest prophet simply remained in seclusion. Luke 1:24 And there in no mention of the "greatest prophets " birth either. Not to mention, however did they escape Herod's sword without having to flee the country?
The Jesus family on the other hand were instructed by gods messenger ,for their own safety, to flee the country altogether and "escape" to Egypt (of all places) Matthew 2:13.
"When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.
"Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.
Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him."
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They just cannot make up their minds, can they? How did Jesus recruit the fisherman called Simon and why did he feel the need to change his name?
Matthew 4:18-20 & Mark 1:16-18
18 As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.” 20 At once they left their nets and followed him.
Then!
Luke 5:2-11
2 He saw at the water’s edge two boats, left there by the fishermen, who were washing their nets. 3 He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little from shore. Then he sat down and taught the people from the boat.
4 When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”
5 Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”
6 When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. 7 So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.
8 When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” 9 For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken, 10 and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners.
Then Jesus said to Simon, “Don’t be afraid; from now on you will fish for people.” 11 So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.
AND THEN!
John 1:35-42
35 The next day John [the Baptist] was there again with two of his disciples. 36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”
37 When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38 Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”
They said, “Rabbi” (which means “Teacher”), “where are you staying?”
39 “Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”
So they went and saw where he was staying, and they spent that day with him. It was about four in the afternoon.
40 Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
Three entirely different accounts as to how Jesus met and recruited his "rock" Simon also called Peter.
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Can Christians prove that god had a plan for every single one of us from day one of ours creation? Is that plan on course?
And wherever did the New Testament authors even of the get the idea that everything that happens, every action taken and word spoken are all by gods design and according to his plan?
There are some NT verses that claim god has a plan for us all and even fewer that talk of a "plan" in the Old Testament such as; "I have planned it, surely I will do it” . Isaiah 46:3-11.
Was me being born for instance, a part of " gods plan " , if so why do I not know about it by now? Will I even know about it?
Was Jesus being sent to earth to suffer and die also part of gods plan?
Is every act we witness in nature good and bad all part of gods divine plan?
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?
There are plenty of Christians that are forever talking about gods divine plan for us all and our purpose on this earth. But I fail to detect a plan at all in the erratic and unbalanced and at times, confusing world that I live in?
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Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.
I struggle to read anything that encourages peace about these verses. They encourage division not unity. They encourage intolerance not tolerance. All in all, they encourage everything that isn't peaceful. They encourage everything but to love one another.
It is also interesting that Jesus encourages everyone to " take up their own cross". If you don't, you are not worth a toss to Jesus.... the Prince of Peace. What ever could this mean?
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To my knowledge many, if not most Christians are Christian because they have had the label foisted onto them and had been taken into the religious sheepfold without their knowledge just after birth as infants by parents who probably had it foisted on them just after their birth after undergoing a water ritual aka a "rite". So choice in those circumstances played no part for the individual whatsoever. Many do, it has to be recognised, "fall by the way side " and make their own path through life unchained from any belief system.
Yet some do become Christians in the adulthood. This to me is a unexplainable phenomenon .
Can anyone calling themselves Christian explain this phenomenon?
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What actually is "the will" to be done?
How is the "will " to be done on earth?
How is the "will" done in Heaven.
And by whom is the "will" being done, on earth?
How long does it take to carry out this "will" of the "father"?
Matthew 6:9-13 Luke 11:2-4
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: 2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say,
Our Father which art in heaven, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done,
10 Thy kingdom come, as in heaven, so in earth.
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
11 Give us this day our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins;
12 And forgive us our debts, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.
Amen.
Not unusual the other two of the four gospellers probably don't think it important enough to include this "prayer" taught by Jesus in their own version of events as they do leave out other episodes in the Jesus story.. Interesting though that all four gospels close with the word - Amen as does only one of the two versions of "the lords prayer".
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I didn't ask anyone to die for my crimes or sins or misdemeanours.
By all accounts, and after all the claims made by Christians of humans having “free will” someone did take it upon themselves and committed suicide on my behalf and I didn’t have a say in the matter.
And the idea that I would ask or want anyone to suffer for my crimes or sins is abhorrent and it appals me. Neither my brother nor Jesus is my keeper. And I will suffer and `bare my own cross, ' as it is I that am responsible for my own actions.
But who does the bible say is responsible for our crimes/sins?
The bible seems to suggest we alone are responsible. Deuteronomy11:16 “ take heed of yourself”.
And when the omnipotent lord God himself, he having unlimited power, appears to be unable to locate Able asks his brother;
Genesis4; 9 “Where is Abel your brother?”
He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?
“Am I my brother's keeper?”
Is this to say that I am not responsible for anyone but myself, my actions and my own behaviour?
Nowhere will we find a single reference where Jesus admits to his inner circle of coming to specifically do die for their sins. There are a few verses that could be crowbarred into suggesting that he did as much, such as John 3:16, but it will be a struggle to squeeze these words into the mouth of Jesus and sins are not even mentioned, only belief.
I find it appalling that someone is said to have taken responsibility for something I am alleged to have done and had suffered what the scriptures describe as the most vicious, cruel and sadistic death ever dreamed up by humans, voluntarily!
I find also applauding that someone had taken it upon themselves to actually “sacrifice” themselves without my knowledge or consent! On my behalf.
I have directly asked people on this forum (one being a man of the cloth), wouldn’t they too be appalled and find it abhorrent if someone just took it upon themselves to take responsibility for their own sins, crimes and mistakes and sacrificed themselves via an horrific death? I have had no follow up response as of yet.
And as an afterthought:
We notice too that god doesn’t address Cain's reply of responsibility but exiles him for his crime of murdering his brother. Cain complains at gen 4:14 that “it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.” but it is never explained who will actually kill Cain considering there were only four humans on the planet at the time of the murder and with them now being a man down leavening only three?
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In no particular order of gravitas.
(1) The story of Gods faithful obedient servant Job.
With having unlimited power over everything in the universe, God says to Satan -
"And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” Job 2:3
The story of Job has to be among the saddest example of God's Love and Grace in these "god breathed" scriptures. God sanctions the death of all of Jobs 10 children but as we can see above, God is not happy having to do this "without any reason". One can become quite weepy once we realise that it is Gods love and grace that is clearly shining through showing us how cheap life really is to him.
(2) The right to worship by the love and grace of God at any cost.
O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" Psalm 137:8–9 .
This appears to be a ` deary me never mind ' comment from God who was merely saying how regrettable it is that even babies become collateral damage during conflict. But is also saying those that believe in him "should be happy-or blessed — to kill innocent babies if they keep you from worshiping him. How lovingly gracious of god to put their concerns of worship & his own vanity before those of innocent babies.
(3) Cannibalism enforced by God.
"And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." Leviticus 26:27–29
This appears to be one of those - `you keep forgetting me, what about me' -tantrums from God. He is feeling a bit left out of the picture so, as punishment, he threatens his them "chosen people, Israel" that he will cause them to eat their own children. The love and grace that God shows in this verse is enough to bring tears to ones eyes.
(4) The vow of a General and a virgin for God .
"And[general] Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: 'If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.' . . . When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! . . . After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed." Judges 11:30–39
This is really a true show of loyalty and devotion to God and a story of how one should keep their promises made to a loving and gracious God . and of course like all biblical stories of gods love grace this virgin wasn't sacrificed for nothing. No. what sprang from this story of loyalty , devotion and obedience was the Israelite tradition that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite. I bet this young - dead - fried to a crisp - virgin is happy with her sainthood. God does work in mysterious ways.
(5) Killed for not keeping it in the family and rewarded by God.
"Just then one of the Israelites came and brought a Midianite woman into his family, in the sight of Moses and in the sight of the whole congregation of the Israelites. When Phinehas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he got up and left the congregation. Taking a spear in his hand, he went after the Israelite man into the tent, and pierced the two of them, the Israelite and the woman, through the belly. So the plague was stopped among the people of Israel.
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 'Phinehas, son of Eleazar, son of Aaron the priest, has turned back my wrath from the Israelites by manifesting such zeal among them on my behalf that in my jealousy I did not consume the Israelites. Therefore say, "I hereby grant him my covenant of peace. It shall be for him and for his descendants after him a covenant of perpetual priesthood, because he was zealous for his God, and made atonement for the Israelites.' '" Numbers 25:6–13
Indeed seems all very racial hatred but once again we see God showing his love and grace by rewarding Phineas with a perpetual priesthood and all the trimming that come with it for keeping his" chosen people" racially pure.
(6) Another display of how cheap human life is to God, in his love and grace.
"See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated." Isaiah 13:9–16
So again, we can witness another a perfect example of Gods love and grace on display. This of course is because God is such a generous loving and graceful and all powerful god, that he can simply create more children to be "dashed to pieces" and more "wives to be raped". All of gods' love and grace can be so overwhelming at times, it really can.
(7) With Gods love and grace, he extinguishes fetuses of those who do not worship him.
"You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:4, 9, 16.
Well we can see here that through gods love and grace that he is teaching those unborn fetuses a real lesson in obedience in how to be submissive. And lets hope future fetuses will learn from this lesson delivered with the love and grace by the lord God himself.
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........do what you like with them".
How generous of this man Lot, to offer his virgin daughters in place of two strangers said to be messengers of god himself.
One simply has to ask , why did these two men of god not bat an eyelid or say a word in protest at the idea or prospect of these to young virgin daughters being gang raped to save their skin ? And where was god to reprimand Lot?
8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.” Genesis 19:1-21
It is as if this was the normal practice for a father to offer his little girls when he or his god sent guests are in danger.
and someone on another mentioned Morals:
The tale goes on to tell the familiar story about Lots wife turning into a pillar of salt <<(I know, ) and eventually Lots two virgin daughters rape Lot while he is drunk or asleep or both.
Of course; Lot cannot of course be held accountable for this incestuous depraved and immoral licentious act , because he was out of his head and "didn't know a thing about it, honest guv" . Genesis 19:30-38
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Black Lives Matter in control of the 2020 USA election
" I want you to think about what that means for your kids"
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How many times is that theist claim the an atheist doesn't ever understand the "context" of a biblical verse?
"It is clear you don't know the story, and much less the context. But that is OK, you are like 99% of the atheists here".
According to this 99% of atheist that have read and or studied the bible never ever are able to get the context.
Watch this 5 minute clip that sums up the ignorant buffoons that make this uneducated ridiculous claim perfectly.
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Even the most dense of Christians have managed through the ages to eventually grasp that the word Messiah means - anointed. It means the same thing in Greek by all accounts as it does in Hebrew.
But anointed into or, as what?
And who specifically are those anointed ones?
does to be a anointed messiah mean to be in the service of god.
So can we say priests are messiahs because they are in the service of god?
Are kings messiahs in the service of god? and can they go onto anoint others into the service of god?
Can anyone anointed by a priest be in the service of god?
Is it the duty of any of the above to anoint others as messiahs?
Do messiahs have different functions?
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Compilation of voter fraud videos
00:00 Poll supervisor, registered democrat.
00:48 Same man, outside
01:00 Boarded up windows in Michigan 1
01:20 Boarded up windows in Michigan 2
01:42 Inspector not allowed in Philadelphia
02:16 Angry poll counter throws out ballot
02:49 Burning Trump votes
04:00 Woman finds box with 500 unregistered ballots
04:48 Poll worker finds manipulated data
06:27 Dead people vote?
07:42 Man thrown out of polling location
08:46 Defying court order to let polling be monitored
10:49 Vote fraud scheme in Michigan, Detroit
11:33 Prager U explains Ballot harvesting
13:06 Steven Bannon on FOX news setting the stage for Joe Biden takeover
15:26 Joe Biden admits to voter fraud
15:26 "Joe Biden admits to voter fraud" ? Does Joe Biden mean - anti - voter fraud? Its hard to tell with Biden he doesn't know his wife from his sister. I hope his kids know who their real mom is.
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"The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything",#3 - has to be the most ignorant, uneducated , backward thinking and thoughtless statement ever written on this forum. Or is the statement by the Reverend Tradsecrete , correct?
And of all the "books" that this could have been said about, the author of that ridiculous statement was talking about one of - if not the - most influential "books" ever written.; the Bible which is full of words. Indeed the Christ himself is called "The Word". When words are put together they become magic, they cause/d people to do things , this is why the ancients called it -SPELL - ING. And for anyone that has studied the scriptures in any depth would know this fact.
This is like saying 'words can't cause anyone to be hurt or disappointed or depressed, or happy or suicidal when they clearly can and do . Words on a internet forums & and other social media have caused suicide rates around the world to sky rocket caused by words.
Words in books have caused people to murder. John Lennon's murderer Mark Chapman said he killed John Lennon because the favourite character ever in a book he was reading - Holden Caulfied, would have killed John because he didn't like "phonies".
Words can be formed into all kind of revealing sentences and paragraphed that tell us information that can or cannot be acted on and used for benevolent or malevolent purposes. The Quran clearly instructs adherents to Islam to kill anyone not Muslim and it causes many its followers to do just that, no matter how much the apologist want to deny this fact.
So it is a pretty much an established fact A book can and does "cause " people to act, or think, or believe, or learn.
What is different then about the bible that we are told "can't cause anything". Well in truth it is worse than any novel or instruction manual ever written and to say that it can't cause anything, by a member of the clergy is nothing short of profane" How contradictory can one get or ever live to be!?
The bible instructs people to kill, and these are not man made laws if the bible is to be believed, they are direct orders to Christians written in a "BOOK", a book whose words were "breathed into it" by god.
Crimes and Punishment.
Adultery : Death
Homosexuality : Death
Working on Sunday : Death
Cursing parents: Death
Blasphemy : Death
These words in the book called the bible have caused death.
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With all the alleged shenanigans that have come to light a about - soon to be put out to pasture - Joe Biden and his family, I have to ask, will there be attempts to impeach "the sonofabitch" ?
Is it plausible in the light of revelations and admissions and the "laptop from hell" that seem to point to corruption or treason?
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Jesus, it is said , performed 7 miracles also referred to as the 7 signs ( some argue he performed more) but for convenience and further argument we will stay with the now famous and most popular, those being;
- Changing water into wine at Cana in John 2:1-11 - "the first of the signs"
- Healing the royal official's son in Capernaum in John 4:46-54
- Healing the paralytic at Bethesda in John 5:1-15
- Feeding the 5000 in John 6:5-14
- Jesus walking on water in John 6:16-24
- Healing the man blind from birth in John 9:1-7
- The raising of Lazarus in John 11:1-45.
Now, after the death of John the Baptist King Herod on hearing about these so called miraculous wonders being performed by Jesus (he had never met him personally at this point Luke 23:8) appears to be frightened out of his skin. Why?
Well because the bible states this:
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
14 And king Herod heard of him [Jesus]; (for his name was spread abroad:) and he said, That John the Baptist was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him [Jesus].
15 Others said, That it is Elias. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets.
16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.
So for anyone observant enough, they should be asking what were the "mighty works" that John had performed for them to be now "showing forth themselves in Jesus"?
We have had it confirmed by a regular contributor to DebateArt, The lawyer and the Pastor and Chaplin, reverend Tradesecrete #20 that :
There is no reason to assume that John ever performed any "miracles" mentioned at verse 13 above. And I too admit that I neither recall any miracles, or signs or wonders performed by John the Baptist. Indeed, we are told that John was not even a messiah!
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This question has been on my mind for years. And as usual, it is a question that the scriptures themselves have raised.
Nowhere do we read of John doing anything but preach about "the one to come that is greater than he" Mark 1:7. Baptising down in the Jordan river Mark 1:4-5. Arguing with King Herod Luke 3:19 , and that is about it? There is absolutely nothing else at all that explains to the readers of the gospels what John, "the greatest prophet" actaully did , nothing.
Was John's sole message and function simply to "prepare the way" and cleans people of their sins? Or did have have other meaningful functions?
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I have mentioned a few times on this forum that kings of Israel and Judah were called sons of god and had never been challenged to put forward evidence for that claim until very recently -today in fact, when a extremely frustrated member said this:
"You have still to produce the evidence for your lies that all kings of Israel were called Sons of God". #21 Tradesecret
I don't ever remember being asked to "prove" this claim/ my claim before , but still here we are.
It is believed the evidence is there in the religious scriptures and these would be the same scriptures that Tradesecret tells us he " teaches to his clients" among telling them never to answer simple yes or no questions>>>> #15 "Besides - I counsel all of my clients never to answer yes or no". Poor clients, I say.
He admits to being told something and then simply passing it on, such as here, bottom two lines>>#20 Tradesecret. >>>>
"I in most parts are are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received. S/he didn't say if or not he actaully reads the damn scriptures for himself, but my guess he doesn't.
So what about the Israel's and Judah's son's of god? I cannot put my fingers direct on my own sources, but do not fret. As in todays age of the WWW there are commentators that can be found that confirm my claim. Odd don't you think that tradesecret didn't take the time to check out my claim for him/her self, isn't it,?....... before calling me a liar, AGAIN! he should know by now that I rarely make a claim I couldn't support..... and it didn't take me two seconds to find these sources. .
The evidence for my claim simply doesn't stop coming. I do wish we had the WWW when I was studying and researching these scriptures. It would have saved me thousands of hours in the library not to mention in travel and money.
God’s Son and Kiss the Son. Rabbi David Markowitz
"The term son of God appears a number of times in the Torah where it clearly does not refer to a biological relationship. See for example Deuteronomy 14:1: "You [Israel] are sons to the Lord your God," as well as Exodus 4:22, where God tell Moses to tell Pharaoh "My son, My firstborn Israel" (Exodus 4:22). The meaning is that God has a special relationship with His nation, but clearly the bond is emotional and not physical.
The Torah likewise uses this expression for other great individuals. See for example Psalms 89:27-28 in reference to King David, and II Samuel 7:14 in reference to Solomon: “I will be to him as a Father and he will be to Me as a son.”
In this verse, the commentators understand God’s “son” as referring to King David himself (or possibly the future Messiah (Ibn Ezra)), who serves God with the filial devotion of a son honoring his father (Ibn Ezra, Radak), who represents and protects a nation known collectively as God’s son (Rashi, Metzudat David), or who leads the world as an (inheriting) son who controls his father’s property (Malbim)..................."
The Torah likewise uses this expression for other great individuals. See for example Psalms 89:27-28 in reference to King David, and II Samuel 7:14 in reference to Solomon: “I will be to him as a Father and he will be to Me as a son.”
In this verse, the commentators understand God’s “son” as referring to King David himself (or possibly the future Messiah (Ibn Ezra)), who serves God with the filial devotion of a son honoring his father (Ibn Ezra, Radak), who represents and protects a nation known collectively as God’s son (Rashi, Metzudat David), or who leads the world as an (inheriting) son who controls his father’s property (Malbim)..................."
Professor, Claremont School of Theology
"Biblical authors claim that the kings of Israel and Judah were divinely chosen and that they were expected to abide by the covenant (see, for example, Deut 17:14-17, 1Sam 8-12, 1Kgs 2:3-4). Ps 2 calls the Davidic king a “son” of Yhwh. In a similar way, powerful kings in ancient treaties called their lesser allies “sons.” Thus, Israelites saw their king as a lesser agent of their god, ruling on his behalf (see Hag 2:20-23). Since Yhwh was in charge, he was responsible for protecting the king of Israel from threats by enemies (2Sam 7, Ps 2) and for punishing him and even removing him if he did not fulfill divine expectations (1Sam 13-14, 2Sam 7, 1Kgs 11:29-39). Ps 72 calls upon G-d to grant the king divine justice and righteousness so that he might rule the people properly, and Isa 32:1-2 calls upon the king to rule in righteousness so that his officers will govern with justice (see Isa 9:5-9, Isa 11:1-9).................."
The Jewish King as God. The Bart Ehrman Blog: The History & Literature of Early Christianity .
"The son of a human is human, just as the son of a dog is a dog and the son of a cat is a cat. And so what is the son of God? As it turns out, to the surprise of many casual readers of the Bible, there are passages where the king of Israel, widely called the son of God (e.g. 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 2:7), is actually referred to as divine, as god.
The Yale Hebrew Bible scholar John Collins points out that this notion ultimately appears to derive from Egyptian ways of thinking about their king, the Pharaoh, as a divine being. Even in Egypt, where the king was God, it did not mean that the king was on a par with the great gods, any more than the Roman emperor was thought to be on a par with Jupiter or Mars. But he was a god. In Egyptian and Roman circles, there were levels of divinity. And so too, as we have seen, in Jewish circles. And so it is that we find highly exalted terms used of the king of Israel, terms that may surprise readers who – based on the kind of thinking that developed in the fourth Christian century — think that there is an unbridgeable chasm between God and humans. Nonetheless, here it is, in the Bible itself, the king is called both Lord and God" .
The Yale Hebrew Bible scholar John Collins points out that this notion ultimately appears to derive from Egyptian ways of thinking about their king, the Pharaoh, as a divine being. Even in Egypt, where the king was God, it did not mean that the king was on a par with the great gods, any more than the Roman emperor was thought to be on a par with Jupiter or Mars. But he was a god. In Egyptian and Roman circles, there were levels of divinity. And so too, as we have seen, in Jewish circles. And so it is that we find highly exalted terms used of the king of Israel, terms that may surprise readers who – based on the kind of thinking that developed in the fourth Christian century — think that there is an unbridgeable chasm between God and humans. Nonetheless, here it is, in the Bible itself, the king is called both Lord and God" .
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?
Can anyone have a stab at this for me.
Jesus dies and then this happened
52 the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Matthew 27:52-53
What does this actually mean?
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This has to be among the silliest stories in the New Testament scriptures. And this is not "nitpicking".
It starts with Jesus in a boat crossing to a city named Gadarenes ( perhaps, this day Jesus didn't feel like getting his feet wet by simply walking on the water of lake Galilee to the other side?) where he meets a man with "unclean spirit" ; we can assume a demon of sorts has taken possession of the poor man.
And god forbid ! that I dare take this silly story "out of context", here is the full account with the relevant parts highlighted bold & underlined;
Mark 5:1-20
Healing of a Demoniac. New English Translation
5 So they came to the other side of the lake, to the region of the Gerasenes. 2 Just as Jesus was getting out of the boat, a man with an unclean spirit came from the tombs and met him.
3 He lived among the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For his hands and feet had often been bound with chains and shackles, but he had torn the chains apart and broken the shackles in pieces. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Each night and every day among the tombs and in the mountains, he would cry out and cut himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down before him.
7 Then he cried out with a loud voice, “Leave me alone, Jesus, Son of the Most High God! I implore you by God—do not torment me!” 8 (For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of that man, you unclean spirit!”) 9 Jesus[ asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”
10 He begged Jesus repeatedly not to send them out of the region. 11 There on the hillside, a great herd of pigs was feeding. 12 And the demonic spirits begged him, “Send us into the pigs. Let us enter them. 13 Jesus gave them permission. So the unclean spirits came out and went into the pigs. Then the herd rushed down the steep slope into the lake, and about 2,000 were drowned in the lake.”
And it goes on to tell us that all the people that witnessed this event, "ran off and spread the news in the town and countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened".
So Jesus exorcised a man of his demon/demons named "legion" and "we".
The "permission" is to me, the sticking point. Why did they need Jesus's permission?
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We have been told here that at least one of the requirements for one to be able to perform baptism is for the one baptising to have been baptised himself. That sounds pretty fair , reasonable and honest . After all, who would have the audacity to call others to have their sins washed away yet not have had their own sins washed away first?
And we can with some confidence assume this to be correct because John the Baptist was baptising well before Jesus appeared to John on the banks of the river Jordan where it is said John had been baptising and calling multitudes to "repent their sins"! As the bible explains often enough.
"And he [John] came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins"Luke 3:3
" repentance for the forgiveness of sins"(Mark 1:4-5) .
"a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" . (Luke 3:3)
"in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins". (Acts 2:38)
"baptized and wash your sins away". (Acts 22:16)
But this raises so many questions that it is hard to know where to start.
It is not known who gave John the authority to perform this baptismal rite of washing away sins and it seems no one else knew either except for maybe Jesus, and he wasn't saying ?
What he did appear to do though was confirm, in a fashion, that John himself was indeed baptised or was he only confirming that John had only the qualifications to baptise? Or was this just fancy word play from a man that specialised in the non answer?
The temple priest had approached Jesus asking "where he had got his authority to go around healing the sick and curing the blind?" ( when they were perfectly happy begging).
Read for yourself>>
23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority does thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? Matthew 21:23-25..
So are we to take this as John being qualified? Or does this mean that John had himself been baptised thereby qualified to perform the baptismal rite ?
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What does the bible say about being qualified to baptise someone?
Does the bible teach us the requirements that are needed that gives one authority to cleanse one of his or her sins as the baptist did?
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BLM Website Hoped No One Noticed They Deleted The Call For The Destruction Of The Nuclear Family.
"If you were to go to the Black Lives Matter’s official website recently you would see this in the “What We Believe” section: “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”
The original line on the matter of the said "destruction" of the nuclear family was alleged to have been :
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable".
Whatever could have caused such a drastic change of policy!?
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It is well worth it to watch all of the biblical quiz , especially the speed round at 1:55. The second speed round 9:51 is just as hilarious.
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This 6 minute must come as comforting news to any upstanding, clear minded American .
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Jesus rising from the dead is not a miracle. It was always going to happen because he had not committed sin
Then why did Jesus need to be baptised?
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Oh deary me>
Jason Whitlock claims leaked George Floyd footage shows early narrative of his death was a 'race hoax'
A future guilty verdict trial looks wobbly and in doubt.
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How police 'brutally' intruded into a grieving family's sombre vigil just 30 minutes after the parents were told their daughter, 6, was being taken off her life support machine"
I brought tears to my eyes. These heartbroken couple were just coming to terms of losing their child and these fuckers couldn't keep their fucking big beaks out.
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