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Where was he?

Jesus said said to his followers that some of them would live to witness his return to earth:“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.

So it is clearly Jesus himself states that he will be seen again in that generation of that time and that it was to happen some time during the generation of those to whom he was speaking. It cannot be made more clear to his audience that this event would not be in the distant future, he told them that some of them who were there listening to him would still be alive to see it.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64.     And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:

2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.

Does a single one of those he made the promise to mention his return "coming on a cloud"? It will be interesting to hear what Christians have to say about this abysmal damp squib of a failure to keep a promise, his promise.
#2
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You do know that if there were smartphones 2000 years ago there would be no Jesus, don't you?


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2Pe 3:3 - Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
2Pe 3:4 - They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
2Pe 3:5 - But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
2Pe 3:6 - By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
2Pe 3:7 - By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2Pe 3:8 - But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 - But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
2Pe 3:11 - Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
2Pe 3:12 - as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
2Pe 3:13 - But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
2Pe 3:14 - So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him

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#4
Stephen
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So it seems then that not a single person alive in 1st century AD (or after)  witnessed the Christs promised return in their life time as Christ himself says he would.


It was always going to be the case of apologists such as Peter  making excuses to the gullible, ignorant and superstitious of  time that would swallow his feeble excuses - hook line and sinker.  Peter was a fisherman after all.

 Christians always will  without fail, scream and stamp their feet and demand that we must listen to what Peter the " rock"  has to say  on the mater when the awkward subject of Jesus' massive failure to return is pointed out to them. Yet the Christians most famous attempt at apologetics and waiving away of this prickly subject  will always be to  point to PETER and particularly verse 2 Peter 3:8:

“With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”.

Interesting that Jesus makes no mention of this 1day = 1000 years but categorically declares that people living at the time of the promise will witness his return . 

Is this yet another invention of the gospel writers attempting to to get out of a sticky situation?

When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - and that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER,  that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  

 


  


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#5
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For centuries now many Christians sects have been prophesying the "second coming" and one has to wonder why they even bothered  considering Jesus made it clear at the time that some  ( if not all) of those living at the time would witness his return. 


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@ethang5
So what are the criteria required, to be regarded as spotless and blameless.

I think that is fair to suggest that there are as many spotless and blameless non-christians, as there are christians.

Or are you just referring to having a shower, before going to church wearing your best hat, on Sunday's?....Is that all that it takes to be regarded as worthy?
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@ethang5


Ethang5, the runaway from biblical axioms about Jesus' true MO, and is on record as stating that Jesus is not the Father which is priceless Bible stupidity, and has now committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin 3 times,


Within your post #3, and as if you don't have enough embarrassment upon you in not being able to address my posts of the true MO of Jesus, but to only RUN AWAY from them, you proffer passages that totally contradict Stephens passages in his initial post relative to the no-show status of Jesus on His alleged 2nd coming!  Therefore, you once again are proving that the Bible contradicts itself!  

How is one to surmise in which scenario is correct, yours or Stephens, because both contradicting concepts cannot be true at the same time, get it Bible fool?  

BEGIN:



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@zedvictor4
So what are the criteria required, to be regarded as spotless and blameless.
Have Christ's righteousness substituted for your own.

I think that is fair to suggest that there are as many spotless and blameless non-christians, as there are christians.
God will decide. But as Christ is the only spotless and blameless one, good luck to the non-Christian at being spotless and blameless before God.

Or are you just referring to having a shower, before going to church wearing your best hat, on Sunday's?....Is that all that it takes to be regarded as worthy?
No one is regarded as worthy. Only Jesus is worthy. It is His righteousness that covers us, not our own.

And I was not the one "referring", I was quoting the Bible. 
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@BrotherDThomas
Hi, I'm Dee Dee. I worship a petty, selfish, homophobic moron!
Hi Dee Dee! I can see you share many of the traits of the moron you worship.

Let's debate!
Can morons debate?

Lol! 
#10
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@ethang5
What about GOD itself?
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So where was he.?

Are we to believe that he did return but no one noticed?  Not even the disciples gifted with the holy spirit, that enabled them to recognise demons and expel them and   also raise the dead?
After all, no one seemed to have recognized Elijah when he had come ...........and gone.

But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."Matthew 17:12
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@zedvictor4
What about Him?
#13
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2Pe 3:4 - They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Did Peter know about our comprehension challenged anti-theist?

2Pe 3:5 - But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
Another word for deliberate forgetfulness is "lying".
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#14
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@ethang5
@Barney
if anyone wants to be left alone by another member: The first couple steps are asking them to stop, and ceasing engagement yourself. #13  Ragnar

 Stay off my threads ethang5.  I don't want to engage you simply so you can bury my threads under your own brainless garbage.  You are far too incapable of holding any type of serious discussion on matters that you claim to believe in and convinced you to become a christian. .


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@Barney
Stay off my threads ethang5.
You own no threads here Pedro.

I don't want to engage you...
Then stop @ing me hypocrite. 
#16
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@ethang5
You say that only Jesus is worthy.

What about his dad?....Who we are told is a GOD.
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@zedvictor4
God is not a name Z, it is a title. Both Jesus and the Father hold that title. All three members of the Godhead have names. 
#18
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@Stephen
Some would not taste death, so it is likely some were translated into heaven without going through the dying process.
#19
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@ethang5
Who's the third?....Would that be Mr Orange?
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@ronjs
Some would not taste death, so it is likely some were translated into heaven without going through the dying process.

Really!?  So you have evidence from the New Testament scripture that testifies to this being the case?   I would hate to be accused of trapping you so please  keep this in mind before you answer:

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 



And he also said :
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

 And then  he also says:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.

Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.

These  verses can only be accepted as any kind of truth when it is understood that Jesus is talking about the end of the age. He makes this perfectly clear when he talks of
"the signs"
 
Remember Jesus said these things only after being asked :  "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:3

It is only then that Jesus goes on to describe "the signs":

saying "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.  All these are the beginning of birth pains".



#21
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@Stephen
The word "likely" indicates that it is speculative, but Enoch and Elijah didn't taste death but were translated directly to heaven according to scripture.
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@ronjs
The word "likely" indicates that it is speculative, but Enoch and Elijah didn't taste death but were translated directly to heaven according to scripture.


I am pleased that it was you that brought that up. Like I said to you  above, I didn't want anyone to accused me of "trapping" you. That is why I specifically ask you above for "New Testament" evidence  and to consider John 3:13  before you rushed to answer. 


And I appreciate and accept your comment in reference to those Old Testament characters.  And I  am pleased that it was YOU  and not me that mentioned Enoch  and Elijah (In Judaism there are others)  because it is you that has highlighted that glaring biblical contradiction of John`s claim , haven't you?
 
John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 


Now your task is to  explain away  the contradiction highlighted by yourself and why it is that Johns gospel appears to be  contradicting  the Old Testament. .....

and none of this goes anywhere in explaining why Jesus failed to return at the promised time. 








  



#23
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@Stephen
Actually i don't believe there are any contradictions in scripture, but people continually take verses out of context or ignore what comes before or after it and disregard related verses. 
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Actually i don't believe there are any contradictions in scripture,

But it is you that has highlighted the contradiction yourself. I didn't do that.  And what you believe is irrelevant, it  is the facts that count.  And here, YOU have highlighted John's gospel contradicting YOURSELF and the Old Testament and now you have gone into backpedaling mode.

When I asked you for New Testament evidence YOU took the time to point out to me from the Old Testament>>
ronjs wrote:  but Enoch and Elijah didn't taste death but were translated directly to heaven according to scripture. #21


See above? You have told us that Enoch and Elijah went to heaven without dying, haven't you? And the Old Testament  agrees with you, doesn't it ?

So one of them is wrong isn't it? 

Look again at what John's gospel has to say>>>  " 


John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

That is why I specifically asked you for New Testament evidence at #20

But  I had an idea that you would ignore my request and reach directly for  your trusty Old Testament. And  the reason you did this is because you know perfectly well that there isn't a single case of anyone except Jesus going directly to heaven alive in the New Testament. Even Jesus died once before he is said to have  "ascended to heaven", didn't he? 

But this has backed fired on you spectacularly, hasn't it. Because by reaching for the OT  YOU highlighted the glaring biblical contradiction. Not me.


but people continually take verses out of context or ignore what comes before or after it and disregard related verses. 

Well then is all you have to do  is,  first,  correct or at least explain away the biblical contradiction that YOU highlighted,  and second,  put it all into context so we can all understand it . 
 
You have to explain why the bible says people went directly to heaven alive , and why the bible also says no one went direct to heaven alive except Jesus?  And then explain how  any of this explains Jesus` failure to return as he had promised his disciples he would do in their own lifetimes.




38 days later

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@Stephen
From Post 1:
Jesus said said to his followers that some of them would live to witness his return to earth:“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
And that happened in AD 70. They understood Jesus had come into His kingdom. The previous verse says,

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his [a]deeds.

1) This verse speaks of judgment, repaying every person according to their deeds. 

2) How did the Father come in His glory in the OT? Did He come in a physical manner? No. Coming in the glory of the Father can mean two things, to my mind, (i) Sharing the the glory that is only God's, and (ii) coming in judgment to reward those faithful and punish those unfaithful. 

Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.

So it is clearly Jesus himself states that he will be seen again in that generation of that time and that it was to happen some time during the generation of those to whom he was speaking. It cannot be made more clear to his audience that this event would not be in the distant future, he told them that some of them who were there listening to him would still be alive to see it.
Those "signs" are present throughout the NT after the resurrection of the Savior. I will demonstrate that after I make a few more points. 

First, what is a generation? How does the Bible define it? 

Hebrews 3:9-11 (NASB)
9 Where your fathers put Me to the test,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
11 As I swore in My anger,
‘They certainly shall not enter My rest.’”

Hebrews 3:16-19 (NASB)
16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Also, your sons will be shepherds in the wilderness for forty years, and they will suffer for your unfaithfulness, until your bodies perish in the wilderness.

So the Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness for forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the Lord came to an end.

There, the definition of a generation is forty years!
Forty years from AD 30 is AD 70. In AD 70 Jesus did come in judgment, just as He promised in Matthew 16:27.  Just as you have the first Exodus with Moses at the helm, so you have the Second Exodus with Jesus at the helm. Where Moses fails (he never led his people into the Promised Land, only to it) Jesus succeeds. He takes His people into the heavenly country. What did Moses say of a prophet like him? 

Deuteronomy 18:15-18 (NASB)
15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; to him you shall listen. 16 This is in accordance with everything that you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Do not let me hear the voice of the Lord my God again, and do not let me see this great fire anymore, or I will die!’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They have [a]spoken well. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them everything that I command him. 

For I did not speak on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works.

What does Peter say in Acts?

Acts 3:12 
12 But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His [d]servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14 But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 but put to death the [e]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, [f]a fact to which we are witnesses...
19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the [j]period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times. 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your countrymen; to Him you shall listen regarding everything He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel and his successors onward, have also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 God raised up His [k]Servant for you first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.” 

What does Peter say? He blames the Jews for the death of the Lord. He says that the Father has received Him until the time of restoration of all things? The restoration of all things is when Jesus comes in judgment of the Jews within "this generation." "This generation" that Jesus spoke of in the Gospels is a period of time in which they live. He is giving them 40 years until the day of judgment, the day of God's wrath, happens to these people. As Peter said,  in quoting Moses, "every soul that does not listen to that prophet (Jesus) will be put to death" and he says it to the generation he lives among. He says that all the prophets spoke of THESE DAYS. And who are the sons of the prophets? They are the descendent of Israel in that generation, Jesus' and Peter's generation. In Jesus, the SEED of Abraham, there is a forty year period of transition and grace in which those how hear His voice may still come into the kingdom and receive/enter their rest.

Next, the kingdom of heaven is a spiritual kingdom, a heavenly country. 

Finally, His coming would be a spirtiual coming. Just like the Father came on the clouds in the OT, so was to be the coming of the Son of Man. When the Father came in judgment of a nation He used another nation to administer that judgment. We see the same thing in Ad 70. The Roman armies surround Jerusalem. 

Jesus, on the Mt of Olives, speaks to the disciples about the signs of His coming and the end of the age. What age, Stephen? Let me tell you. It is the end of the Old Covenant age, the end of that economy, of temple worship and yearly animal sacrifices for sin through the mediation of the Levitical priesthood. That is because Jesus came to establish a better covenant (as Hebrews states throughout), with a better High Priest, a better Mediator, and a better sacrifice, one that only has to be made once for all time. 

Hebrews 9:24-28
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin [w]by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

As I said before, there is a forty year transition between the OT and Nt after the resurrection of the Lord. That is the grace period. 

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
13 [a]When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [b]about to disappear.

When the author of Hebrews wrote these verses he describes the Old Testament as obsolete and about to disappear. It did in AD 70.

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@Stephen

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64.     And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:
The High Priest definitely understood that the Son of Man was seated at the right hand of the Father during the judgment in AD 70. Josephus describes it in much detail. I recommend you read it to familiarize yourself with what actually happened. All the signs of Matthew 24 are present. In fact, you can find many of the fulfillments happening during the forty-year transition. Peter and Paul speak of the Gospel going to the ends of the earth during this period and before they were put to death by Nero between AD 64 and AD 68. Revelation describes the harlot, which is Jerusalem, and they also describe the kings or caesars, of which Nero is the one who is.

and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.

2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.
2 Peter 3:4
“Where is the promise of His coming? 

1 Peter 4:7 
7 The end of all things [f]is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of [g]prayer.

17 For it is time for judgment to begin [m]with the household of God; and if it begins [n]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Judgment began in AD 70. Peter warned of the thief coming when they were not aware.

[ A New Heaven and Earth ] But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be discovered.

Does a single one of those he made the promise to mention his return "coming on a cloud"? It will be interesting to hear what Christians have to say about this abysmal damp squib of a failure to keep a promise, his promise.

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Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64.     And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:  2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.
The High Priest definitely understood that the Son of Man was seated at the right hand of the Father during the judgment in AD 70. Josephus describes it in much detail.

Nice.  Now let us see what you are claiming.

Remember Peter had no answer for them did he? 



I recommend you read it to familiarize yourself with what actually happened. 

 I have.  As I have the works of Josephus.



Does a single one of those he made the promise to mention his return "coming on a cloud"? It will be interesting to hear what Christians have to say about this abysmal damp squib of a failure to keep a promise, his promise.

Repeating the biblical verses does not amount to proof that Jesus returned from the dead:  on a cloud or a skateboard.

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Part 1
Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64.     And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:  2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.
The High Priest definitely understood that the Son of Man was seated at the right hand of the Father during the judgment in AD 70. Josephus describes it [the judgment, Jerusalem surrounded by Roman legions] in much detail.

Nice.  Now let us see what you are claiming.

Remember Peter had no answer for them did he? 
He most certainly did. 

In his first letter, Peter addresses them as follows, 

"1 To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen"

So Peter addresses people during the generation he lived in as the PRIMARY audience of address, those to whom the warnings and prophecies would apply. In that letter, as I noted, he told them the coming of the Lord was near and not to be shaken.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation [1] ready to be revealed in the last time. 
6...even though [2] now for a little while, if necessary, [3] you have been distressed by various [b]trials,
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 [f] [4] seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories [g]to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that [5] they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to [h]look.
13 Therefore, [i]prepare your minds for action, [j]keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to [6] you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world,  [7] but has appeared [p]in these last times for the sake of you 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1 Peter 3:21...through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 [8] who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, [9] after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
1 Peter 4:5 but they will give an account to Him [10] who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For the gospel has for this purpose been [e]preached even to those who are dead,
7  [11] The end of all things [f]is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of [g]prayer.
17 For [12] it is time for judgment to begin [m]with the household of God; and if it begins [n]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 Peter 5:13 She who is in [13] Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you greetings, and so does my son, Mark.

Some questions for you, based on those verses.
[1] What does the last time signify? When we turn to other Scripture on that phrase, what do we find?

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
God’s Final Word in His Son
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the [c]world.

First, Hebrews is addressed to Hebrew Christians who were in danger of turning away from their faith in Jesus and going back to the Old Covenant ways that the entire epistle contrasts to what freedom and superiority they already have in Jesus Christ and the New Covenant. And nowhere in Hebrews does the author speak of an already destroyed temple and ritualized system of worship (as the OT was) as already past.

Second, who did God send the prophets to? It was to an OT people, steeped in a works-based system of atonement. 

Third, the writer puts the last days at the time of Jesus' coming to earth where He spoke to Israel for 3 1/2 years before He was crucified. So, the last days are during that generation, as I pointed out before. Try as hard as you like; you can't deny that those passages about this generation I just linked to cannot be anything other than the generation Jesus spoke to for 3 1/2 years. Go ahead and try to deny that, Stephen.  

‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, ‘That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, And your young men will see visions, And your old men will have dreams;

Peter applies those days to the people present at Pentecost. You cannot deny that, Stephen. 

33 Therefore, [ak]since He has been exalted [al]at the right hand of God, and has received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, He has poured out this which you both see and hear.

37 Now when they heard this, they were [ao]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[ap]Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on urging them, saying, “[aq]Be saved from this perverse generation!”

Again, the pronouns are important in realizing who the primary audience of address is and who Peter is issuing a warning. 

[2] Now is a time indicator. What does it mean? 
[3] Who does the pronoun you reference?
[4] The times the prophets were speaking of applied to the people Peter was addressing in the 1st-century. 
[5] Peter says these prophets were not serving themselves when they were looking for the time of the Messiah's coming, but these 1st-century people.
[6] These people were waiting for the revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory. They would understand that in AD 70, when the confirmation came, Christ was indeed in His glory, judging Israel. I could discuss the many signs of Matthew 24 as already taking place to make the point further. Perhaps that will be my next course of action. You can't effectively argue against what the Scriptures actually teach without looking foolish. If that was not enough, I could dissect Revelation's teaching, another Olivet Discourse address closer to the actual Second Coming in AD 70.
[7] Again, the last days are mentioned to THEM. What does "the last days" mean? Do you know, Stephen? After I hear your answer, I will explain it to you with the proof, for it deals with the last days of the Old Covenant, the last days of the heaven and earth of that covenant.
[8] Yeshua/Jesus is now, as Peter speaks to these people seated at the Father's right hand waiting to make His enemies a footstool in that generation. 
[9]  The judgment comes in AD 70. Peter is put to death between AD 64-68, so the time is near when he issues these warnings. 
[10] Please note, God is ready at that time to judge the living and the dead.
[11] The end of all things to do with the Old Covenant was near when Peter is speaking to THEM. 
[12] The time for the judgment was near for their generation.
[13] Babylon, for your information, refers to Jerusalem and apostate Israel at that time in which Peter is writing.

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Part 2

2 Peter is the second letter Peter wrote to them. We should examine what it says to dispel your claims.

3 Beloved, this is now the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of a reminder, 2 to remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
[14] The Coming Day of the Lord
3 Know this first of all, that in [15] the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, [16] “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers [a]fell asleep, all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [b]when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 [17] The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
A New Heaven and Earth
10 But [18] the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and [19] the earth and [c]its works will be [d]discovered.
11 Since [20] all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise [21]  we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by Him, at peace, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which [22] the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of [e]unscrupulous people and lose your own [f]firm commitment, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

[14] The "Day of the Lord is coming" soon during Peter's time. 
[15] Again, in the last days of the Old Covenant, there are mockers that Peter is identifying. 
[16] These people have been waiting a long time for His Second Coming, almost 40 years, and are growing impatient. Some are mocking the faithful by asking them, when is He coming?
[17] Peter tells them to be patient because God is not slow in keeping His promise (40 years; one generation) but is giving all those who will come a chance to come before He destroys the Old Covenant system of worship and replaces it with a better covenant. 
[18] Peter assures THEM that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief when those who are disobedient will be caught unaware. 
Paul also warns those in Thessalonia of the coming day and not to be caught like a thief, unprepared:

For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night.

But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you like a thief;

[19] The Old Covenant time is nearing its end, and there is a transition taking place between the two covenants. Even as Paul writes to the Corinthians, the glory of the old is fading away, especially take note of verse 18. 
[20] "all these things?" All what things, Stephen? All the things of the Old Covenant are passing away. What their heaven and earth revolved around for centuries was about to pass away. Their old covenant relationship with temple worship and atonement sacrifices, a priesthood, and all its rituals before God were about to be supplanted solely by a new covenant relationship. Between AD 30 and AD 70, the two covenants existed side-by-side. The period of grace to cross into the Promised Land was about to come to an end. 

Hebrews 3
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as [d]when they provoked Me,
As on the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers put Me to the test,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
11 As I swore in My anger,
‘They certainly shall not enter My rest.’”
The Danger of Unbelief
12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [e]that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our [f]commitment firm until the end, 15 while it is said,
“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as [g]when they provoked Me.”
16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

[21] That would be the heavenly kingdom. If you doubt that, I have a boatload of Scripture that proves the point. 
[22] Now, you too, Stephen, have been taught these things. You are without excuse. 

In every NT writing, I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the primary audience of address about judgment is a 1st-century Jewish people. The Scriptural proofs are exhaustive. 

I recommend you read it to familiarize yourself with what actually happened. 

 I have.  As I have the works of Josephus.
Good! Then you know the three factions within the city during the siege. You know of the destruction that took place and how it reiterates Revelation descriptions in many places. You know that these Jews in Jerusalem were taken into slavery and dispersed once the city fell. You know that the OT system of worship was no longer in practice as instructed in the Torah. You know the even Josephus describes this tribulation as the greatest Israel had ever witnessed.



Does a single one of those he made the promise to mention his return "coming on a cloud"? It will be interesting to hear what Christians have to say about this abysmal damp squib of a failure to keep a promise, his promise.

Repeating the biblical verses does not amount to proof that Jesus returned from the dead:  on a cloud or a skateboard.
Again, what does cloud coming signify in the OT? As you pointed out Matthew 16:27-28 and listed it as one of the verses that prove your point, what does coming in the glory of the Father, with His angels mean? Do you know? How did the Father come in glory on the cloud/with clouds in the OT? Do you know? 

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Not a single thing that you have posted goes anywhere in showing that Jesus returned from the dead and appeared to his apostles or anyone, on a cloud or anything resembling as such after the accession.

Falvius Josephus mentions no raising from the dead of Jesus called the Christ and making a show on a cloud and sitting anywhere , either.


I have said in another thread of mine that I personally believe Jesus survived the cross and went on to live at least another 40 years and was probably alive,  if not present at the time of the fall of Jerusalem. But I have no proof of that.


But YOU!  In typical fashion of the theist caught on the backfoot , you have ignored what these scriptures actually state.

LOOK>> “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.


Peter was challenged wasn't he?  But he had no explanation for the no show did he,? So instead just like you he swerved the problem with bullshit : lets see what they said and  Peter's weasley reply.

They asked;
“Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4

Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise. They didn't ask because he had returned, did they you fool.   They asked because he hadn't!       And everything went on the same.  

What was Peter's BS response to them:


8 " But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day".

Odd it is that Jesus forgot to mention this thousand years when he promised the generation living at the time of the promise.

Odd then isn't it that Jesus forgot to mention they wouldn't pass away because they would all live for another thousand years before they all witnessed his return. 

No matter how many verses you post here, trying to tell us that Jesus did return  , they won't alter what the scriptures actually state  and only go further to shown your BS is full of holes.

And this is all before we even get on to what all this is supposed to mean in the "ancient Greek language" that you Christians always rely on for another BS excuse for the scriptures failings.

Christians are too dumb to realise that every time they pull out the Greek card, that they render the whole of the Christian bible written in English obsolete and useless as  any kind of theological authority.