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Author: Stephen 3 years ago

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#331

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,062

zedvictor4

05.17.2021 05:59AM

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@PGA2.0

One does not doubt that modern biblical translations are derived of historical texts....And furthermore, said texts do clearly make reference to actual locations, and presumably therefore, also to real people. Texts, which in the absence of scientifically acquired understanding, shared and included the commonly derived world view of a creator deity.

Your unerring acceptance of said texts, pays little or no regard to either, the naivety of such creation hypotheses, or to the current level of scientifically derived understanding.

Topic's author

#332

Stephen

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,615

Stephen

05.17.2021 06:25AM

So staying with the theme of my thread, Do you accept PGA 2.0's version of events concerning Jesus' return in 66-70 AD
Nope...................................... Comments David v. PeanutHut.Comments

That's more like it.

I too also mentioned the other signs that were supposed to accompany the second coming #1 Stephen " “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened Matthew24:25-34.

But of course you didn't pick up on that point simply because it was me that pointed it out in my first post. I also mentioned Mathew 24:6-7 as further signs that we "are also look for" as told by the Christ, but that too you have over looked simply because it was I that brought it this argument.

And I like YOU , I too was stating only and exactly that which the Christ in THE BIBLE STATES himself! But you couldn't come onto this tread and agree with me could you? Even though I have stated not just directly from the BIBLE , but what I have said also appears to be in agreement with the author in your own link, the Comments David v. PeanutHut.

Like I have said. You are a coward of the highest hypocritical double standards that will cut off your nose to spite your own fkn face. They type that is willing to throw fellow man under the fkn bus as long as you believe it would save you face 9 one of many that you have) or embarrassment.

And that is what I have and will protect.

But rather than condemning or even challenging Timid8967 for his zealous aspirations of wanting to eradicate your own Christ Jesus and your own holy scripture from the face of the earth, you would rather argue with me. Someone that does actually accept swaths of the bible to be true and to contain much historicity. I believe there was a Jesus and that all the other biblical characters actually existed.

I don't want to eradicate Christianity. I don't want your holy book committed to the flames. And I don't believe Christianity is a danger to my children either. But you know who does, don't you , you 19 faced coward?

Yes I can see your willingness and readiness to fight the good fight to "protect" your faith and your religion and your Christ that sacrificed himself for you while giving a clean bill of health to the over zealous "non theist"Timid8967, he that belies the "Christian religion is a danger to our children" .

And with the cowardly double standards and hypocrisy that you have displayed just recently he may well have a good point and could well be onto something.

Fauxlaw : #329

Theist arguing with theist about "context".. You couldn't make it up! Hahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhaha!

#333

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

05.17.2021 07:48PM

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@fauxlaw

you go against the biblical teaching
To which biblical teaching, exactly, is my suggestion contrary? You infer there is a specific teaching I've ignored. Did not Satan tempt Christ in the wilderness?

Yes, Satan tempted Christ just like he tempted Adam in the Garden, and just like he tempted Israel in the wilderness. There is a parallel there - two wildernesses, two Adamic figures, two relationships with God. The difference, Jesus never succumbed to the temptation. As in the OT, contained, so also in the NT explained. The types and shadows of the OT pointed to a greater truth - Jesus Christ.

What teaching dismisses the probability that, included with satisfying hunger - which would be contrary to Christ's purpose in using his divine nature and power to help others, not himself - he was also tempted by the same words of doubt, "If thou be the Son of God..." to impose on the angels his rescue before that of others. You cannot just make the claim and then not bother to cite how this is contrary to biblical teaching. I am perfectly happy to be educated, if, in fact, it is there to be taught. I have read the Holy Bible cover-to-cover in a few languages, including Greek, and I find no such obvious teaching as you claim.

The Son, incarnate in human flesh, taking the nature of a human being, purposely came to do the Father's will to REDEEM fallen humanity. Thus, He satisfied the requirements of God solely in His humanity, not His divinity which He did not use. (Do you want the long-winded version?)

Further, is not doubt one of Satan's most useful weapons? Did he not use it5 in tempting Adam & Eve with eating of the tree of knowledge? "No," he told them, "you shall not surely die..." What he didn't say is that God would not end their lives on the spot, even God had said it would happen "in that day," thus hiding the true nature of death.

Again, you fail to understand the Bible you claim you have read in different languages. There is physical death and there is spiritual death.

John 4:24

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God created the human to interact in a physical world by being a physical being. God also created the human to interact with Him, which is through the spirit. Thus we are not only physical beings. God gave the human the choice to live with Him forever (eat from the tree of life) yet if the human wanted to know the difference between good and evil and disobey the good that God had commanded the human being would die SPIRITUALLY to God that very day, and that is what happened.

Genesis 2

16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not [o]eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God also gave the human the choice to eat of the tree of life and live forever but once Adam had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil God barred the human fromit and the Garden that very day, and since the man had now experienced and done evil God separated the human from His intimate presence. That is the death Adam died that day - a spiritual death to God. He lived hundreds of years after that day physically, living to the age of 930 years.

Genesis 3

8 Now they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the [b]cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden...

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Jesus Christ is the tree of life. He offers what was taken away in the Garden - eternal life and restoration with God. That is why He said,

John 3:3

Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:7

Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Jesus came to restore the spiritual relationship fully with God. What was undone with the first Adam in the Garden is restored by the Second Adam in a different garden.

In the Hebrew, our English "day" is interpreted as both a single day as we know it: one full Earth rotation, but also as a longer period of time. What is time to God? To him, it is virtually non-existent. What better weapon is there to convince us that a little sin here, a little one there, will matter little? But, they pile up, don't they, from that doubt that sin is no big deal. Then resulting doubt takes us further and further from God until he is dismissed out of hand, as many on this site contend.

Time is for the purpose of humanity. A day is a day. Any sin, the tinies peccadillo, is enough to separate humnity from the presence of God. That is why God required a covering or atonement for sin until He would once again open up a way that continually atoned for sin. The whole OT points to this period in history where God's chosen One would come to create a better covenant. The reason why is given in Hebrews 9 among other passages of Scripture.

8 The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the [j]outer tabernacle is still standing, 9 which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, 10 since they relate only to food, drink, and various washings, regulations for the [k]body imposed until a time of reformation.

A covering until a better sacrifice is offered. .

13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the [o]ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the [p]cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through [q]the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where there is a [r]covenant, there must of necessity [s]be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a [t]covenant is valid only when people are dead, [u]for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the [v]tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And almost all things are cleansed with blood, according to the Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these things, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin [w]by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

A human being sinned and caused the Fall. A human being needed to demonstrate a flawless life to God to restore the Garden relationship. While bulls and goats were provisions to cover the sinner they were only as good as the next sin. They only represented the human that sinned. The human recognized that the animal that was kill, a life, should have been theirs. Jesus, being human offered the same kind of sacrifice that was needed for sin, a human one since it was a human that caused the guilt and the animal sacrifice, repeated for every sinful action only covered the human until this perfect sacrifice was offered. That is what Jesus did. Not only that, He lived on behalf of those who would believe in Him. He is the perfect representative accomplishing what animals cannot do.

As I said earlier, the Christian religion is centered on the Son of God who became incarnate, Jesus Christ. It is not based on a myth. Over and over we are told this in the NT and by those who claimed to be eyewitnesses of His coming, when He came the first time to live a human life before God. The Second coming would be in the power and glory of the Father, who is Spirit.

#334

fauxlaw

Debates: 77

Posts: 3,565

fauxlaw

05.17.2021 09:12PM

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@PGA2.0

The types and shadows of the OT pointed to a greater truth - Jesus Christ.

We're in complete agreement on that matter. Thanks.

...solely in His humanity, not His divinity which He did not use.

On that, I disagree because to bleed from every pore is an exquisite pain that humanity, alone, cannot sustain. There are very few examples of people having that condition [it does happen, rarely], but none survive it, and all succumb to death in shorter than the excess of 12 hours that Jesus suffered. It was by virtue of his divinity that he endured longer, until afternoon, and then only because he willed his death; he had complete control over life and death by virtue of his divinity.

Again, you fail to understand the Bible you claim you have read in different languages. There is physical death and there is spiritual death.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

I understand by your logic[?] that God the Father is a spirit, who bore a physical son, Jesus Christ, who lived a mortal, physical life, was crucified, then resurrected to a physical body, as witnessed by up to 500 individuals, if not more, and thus said to his apostles, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39. And yet, God the Father is still a spirit? Were John and Luke at odds, or is it that we either do not understand what john really means by saying God is spirit, and we worship in the spirit, but we are clearly physical beings, and so why should God the Father be the unique only-a-spirit since resurrection is a process to recover an eternal, physical body?

I fully understand the distinction of physical death and spiritual death. We suffer a sense of spiritual death right now in our physical separation from God [thus, we depend on worship of him "in the spirit."] Physical death is obvious, and a one-time occurrence. Spiritual death, while temporary, or of longer duration by our sinning, may be overcome by our repentance, and ultimate forgiveness to earn the right to eternal life with God, as a physical association, or will suffer permanent spiritual death by our decline to repent.

I agree completely with the rest of what you say.

#335

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

05.18.2021 03:19PM

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@fauxlaw

The types and shadows of the OT pointed to a greater truth - Jesus Christ.
We're in complete agreement on that matter. Thanks.

Glad you see that. The types are on every page of the OT.

Luke 24

27 Then beginning [l]with Moses and [m]with all the Prophets, He explained to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures...

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all the things that are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

John 5:39

[ Testimony of the Scripture ] You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me;

...solely in His humanity, not His divinity which He did not use.
On that, I disagree because to bleed from every pore is an exquisite pain that humanity, alone, cannot sustain. There are very few examples of people having that condition [it does happen, rarely], but none survive it, and all succumb to death in shorter than the excess of 12 hours that Jesus suffered. It was by virtue of his divinity that he endured longer, until afternoon, and then only because he willed his death; he had complete control over life and death by virtue of his divinity.

Philippians 2:5-11

Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and [h]being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death [i]on a cross. 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Again, you fail to understand the Bible you claim you have read in different languages. There is physical death and there is spiritual death.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
I understand by your logic[?] that God the Father is a spirit, [a] who bore a physical son, Jesus Christ, who lived a mortal, physical life, was crucified, then resurrected to a physical body, as witnessed by up to 500 individuals, if not more, and thus said to his apostles, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39. And yet, God the Father is still a spirit? Were John and Luke at odds, or is it that we either do not understand what john really means by saying God is spirit, and we worship in the spirit, but we are clearly physical beings, and so why should God the Father be the unique only-a-spirit since resurrection is a process to recover an eternal, physical body?

Nope, not quite to my understanding. The eternal Son, the Second member of the Trinity, also Spirit, became flesh and blood human at the incarnation.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

Notice the Son is given. The Son said in many places that He was with the Father before the world began.

Isaiah 9:6

For a Child will be born to us, a Son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

The Child is born, the Son given.

At the incarnation the Father could also say concerning the Son's taking on human nature,

Luke 1:31

And behold, you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.

Luke 1:35

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; for that reason also the holy Child will be called the Son of God.

I fully understand the distinction of physical death and spiritual death. We suffer a sense of spiritual death right now in our physical separation from God [thus, we depend on worship of him "in the spirit."] Physical death is obvious, and a one-time occurrence. Spiritual death, while temporary, or of longer duration by our sinning, may be overcome by our repentance, and ultimate forgiveness to earn the right to eternal life with God, as a physical association, or will suffer permanent spiritual death by our decline to repent.

A correction there. We do not earn the right to eternal life. It is a gift of God, not by works, so no one can boast in their own ability. That is the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant is a covenant of grace, not works, not by what you earn but by what God gives to those who will believe. Even the believing is by God's grace. Faith comes by hearing the message. The Holy Spirit enables use to hear. No matter how much you tell some people they never become born again. They reject the good news.

But do you see the difference between the two deaths in Genesis then?

I agree completely with the rest of what you say.

Thank you!

8 days later

#336

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

05.26.2021 05:14PM

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@Barney

You are having to do massive cherry picking to justify that you're triggered at the notion of Jesus having appeared in the bible (a collection of stories; religious ones to be precise).

Jesus did not appear in the Bible. The Bible describes His earthly appearances and incarnation.

From your OP, I gathered you were perpetuating the myth theory of Jesus Christ and relegating Him to mythology.

Post 277 - "The mythological figure under discussion has no such protection; as an example, he could be accused of being a bad carpenter with no repercussions."

What you did was add your own two cents into the mix, which is fine, but it shows your partiality to the subject matter. You immediately insinuated that Jesus was a mythical figure. This is not the biblical teaching, which has good evidence to support Jesus as historical, not mythical. Then, to top it off, you gave an example (bad carpenter) that most Christians would consider bad taste to perpetuate the mythical nature of Jesus. That example lacked any credible evidence.

Post 302 - " I haven't linked any mythology to Christianity other than Christianity itself."

Basically, you are saying Christianity is a myth.

[a] If I understand you right, you are offended that anyone declares Jesus came back from the dead, as that is a mythological story; therefore offensive to accuse him of such things. Heck, that he got his feet washed one time is similarly a story about him, thus hurtful to your sentiments that Jesus must be kept in a safe space and never talked about.

[a] Why would I be offended? The Bible teaches He did resurrect, that He was coming again within the lifetime of some of those present, and history records the spread of Christianity based on the belief in the resurrection. The Bible does not treat the resurrection as a mythical story but as fact. Furthermore, there is good evidence to support Jesus coming in AD 70. Paul said,

1 Corinthians 15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Fact of Christ’s Resurrection
15 Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to [a]the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I handed down to you [b]as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to [c]Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to [d]James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as [e]to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, [f]and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, your faith also is in vain. 15 Moreover, we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified [g]against God that He raised [h]Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ only in this life, we are of all people most to be pitied.

The Order of Resurrection
20 But the fact is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

Paul confirms not only he but many others (over 500) were witnesses of the resurrected Jesus. Many went to their deaths, proclaiming this very message. They believed with GOOD REASON the NT to be God revealed.

The NT writers did not regard Jesus or His resurrection as myth. Christians believe Christ as myth is a later conspiracy brought on by false teachers, philosophers, and revisionist scholars and historians that Christianity borrowed its primary beliefs from pagan myths and mystery religions.

Even by your own offered primary definition for myth, they include ones with a determinable basis of fact:
"A traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or [a] without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature." [changed bolding and underlining for emphasis]
My words are chosen carefully. I have precisely used "mythological" [b] and walked you through the meaning. [c] I did not use "fictional," or "just a myth." To which I would understand strong disagreement (even then not this level of outrage; I mean someone else said this is physically violent of me! Physically violent to use one set of words instead of another with the same meaning...).

[a] Note my emphasis on the word without. The mythological Jesus is built on a certain presupposition and bias that Jesus was a mythic figure, rather than a historical figure, the former the Bible explicitly says was not the case.

[b] I walked you through how your post was interpreted by me, as a Christian, and how other Christians would most likely interpret your post as you suggesting Jesus was a mythical figure, not a historical person.

[c] I believe you are backtracking/changing the narrative/equivocating now. I believe most people would think you are calling Jesus a mythical person, not historical. Even so, you are welcome to dispute the topic under consideration here, the eschatological evidence for His coming in AD 70, as per the creator's OP. I would actually look forward to your take. I contend that the OP'er, plus many Christians (such as Darby or Scofield) and atheists in history (such as Bertram Russell), did not understand the biblical nature of Jesus' Second Coming.

#337

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

05.26.2021 05:34PM

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@Stephen

So staying with the theme of my thread, Do you accept PGA 2.0's version of events concerning Jesus' return in 66-70 AD
Nope...................................... Comments David v. PeanutHut.Comments

That's more like it.
I too also mentioned the other signs that were supposed to accompany the second coming #1 Stephen " “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened Matthew24:25-34.

I pointed out to you that the signs and prophecies are shown to have taken place. They are confirmed either in the NT epistles, or by history, or in both instances.

But of course you didn't pick up on that point simply because it was me that pointed it out in my first post. I also mentioned Mathew 24:6-7 as further signs that we "are also look for" as told by the Christ, but that too you have over looked simply because it was I that brought it this argument.

Really, we??? How do you derive that "we" from the primary audience of address, the disciples?

Matthew 24:3-6 (NASB)

3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, [a] the disciples came to Him privately, saying, [b] “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [a]end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and [c] said to them, “See to it that no one [b]misleads [d] you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the [c]Christ,’ and they will [d]mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

[a] The disciples come to Jesus. That is the audience of address if you follow the sequence further.

[b] Tell us refers back to the disciples.

[c] Jesus said to THEM. Who does "them" refer to? Again, it refers to the disciples.

[d] Is "you" generic or specific here? It is specific, again referring to the disciples.

We are told by Josephus and the NT writers of the epistles that many people come in the name of Jesus, some claiming they are the Messiah, and some misled many as Josephus made a note of a prophet by the name of Simon of whom over 30,000 followed him.

Acts 8:9

Now a man named Simon had previously been practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;

2 Peter 2:1

[ The Appearance of False Prophets ] But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

1 John 4:1

[ Testing the Spirits ] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

#338

Castin

Debates: 0

Posts: 2,238

Castin

05.28.2021 04:45AM

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@PGA2.0

It appears I am very late to our discussion about whether the Gospels are eyewitness accounts. Maybe I'll start a new thread to address your post, if that's agreeable to you -- and if I have the time and energy to elucidate my thoughts. Which is always perilously uncertain. Especially when my DVR is full and I've just bought new books.

#339

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

05.28.2021 05:52AM

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@Castin

Sure, I look forward to the discussion when you are ready. Please post the link.

#340

PGA2.0

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

PGA2.0

06.01.2021 06:55PM

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@fauxlaw

[audible sigh]

[a] And that, my friend, is why I so oppose the citation of single verses, which inevitably draws them out of context. What is the whole of the fourth chapter all about? When is the context of every mention of Jesus and his words to the disciples and apostles, and, virtually all within the sound of his mortal voice, before his crucifixion and accomplishment of his propitiation for mankind? During his mortal life, not by his second coming allegedly to have already happened. No. His mortal existence, brief as it was among them. [b] We still await his coming in the flesh again, as he promised numerous times, but has yet to fulfill.

[c] Try reading Mathew 24, the entire chapter, once again, and get the feel of that chapter's context in time. [d] Don't begin at verse 34, ignoring all that precedes it. That verse speaks to "this generation," and everyone assumes Jesus speaks of that first century CE generation. No, it is not. [e] The previous verses, from verse 3, describe another generation, a future generation. It has not yet happened, even now; we still await the signs...

Sorry, I believe I missed this post.

[a] In reference to what verse and chapter? I will assume you mean 1 John 4?

The chapter speaks of different things. The specific context is about testing the spirit to see if the spirit is from God, and every spirit that says Jesus has not come in the flesh is not from God. God's Spirit is in those who confess that Jesus came in the flesh. Someone born of God has the Spirit of God working with their spirit to transform them. They don't deny the bodily coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who deny the bodily coming of Jesus such as the Gnostics are preaching a different Jesus.

Testing the Spirits
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world, therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. The one who knows God listens to us; the one who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

[b] Where did He promise to come AGAIN in the flesh? He was raised in the flesh three days after His crucifixion and stayed with them for forty days, then was taken into heaven and into His kingdom. He promised to come in the glory of the Father when He came again. How did the Father manifest Himself in glory?

[c] There were no chapter divisions when the Gospels were written to the early churches. That came later. Chapter 24 is a furtherance of Chapter 23 in which Jesus pronounced judgment in that generation to the Scribes and Pharisees with His eight woes, those teachers of the Law. He warns them, just as He does the people (through the disciples) in Matthew 24 that "this generation" of these Scribes and Pharisees will not pass away until everything in the Law is accomplished.

Matthew 23:31 So you testify against yourselves, that you are [aa]sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 [ab]Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.

Matthew 23:34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the [ag]temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

And to make Himself clearer, Jesus after walking away from the Temple Mount in answer to His DISCIPLES said,

“Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

You can't impose an audience that does damage to the true meaning of the text like you are doing. Here is the greater context, following Chapter 23.

24 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way [a]when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to THEM, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when (1) will these things happen, and (2) what will be the sign of Your coming, and of (3) the [b]end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one [c]misleads you...

The whole context of Matthew 24:4 onwards in in relation to what Jesus tells His disciples about what was going to happen to OT Israel.

THE TIME is CLEAR. "This generation" refers to the generation Jesus is speaking too. You can't read it otherwise without violating the text through eisegesis. You are creating a private, or personal interpretation and doing damage to God's word.

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06.01.2021 06:56PM

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[d] What you are suggesting is that everything between the bookmarks of "this generation" in Matthew 23:36 and Matthew 24:34 speak of different generations. Can you show me where Jesus is speaking of another generation where ever He speaks of "this generation" anywhere else in the gospels besides what you claim in Matthew 24:34? Here are all the passages:

Matthew 11:16

“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces, who call out to the other children,