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Cannot find this story on MSM?
Isaiah Anthony Wayne Jackson 6’2″ 175lb
Mother makes and excuse for this savage with a wrap sheet saying “ignorant” and claiming that “he wasn’t hurting him [the baby].”
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It is not enough that some world leaders of the west have rammed home the lie that "Islam is a religion of peace".
Or they attempt to reinterpret words such as " Islamophobia" to become a racist word when Islam is not a race and a phobic person is someone with an -irrational - fear or dread, of something or someone.
Now , our police force here in the UK , on top of all the cover ups of "Asian" rape gangs and are turning a blind eye to all slave "Asian" sweat shops are now to.....
...." consider dropping phrases like 'Islamist terror' - 'They don't help community'THE POLICE are considering banning terms such as ‘Islamist terror' and ‘jihadi' amid claims they do not help with community relations.
Why? Why do we have to continually change our language and redefine words to accommodate people who hate out culture and our country and are forever seeking to change it?
They supposedly come here for "refuge" from some war torn shithole only to demand that the indigenous people that gave them refuge change their ways and adopt theirs.
Shariah law for instance; there are Muslim street patrols in London .
Sharia law has been recognised by a British court for the first time after a judge made a landmark divorce ruling which could change the way Islamic marriage and divorce works in the UK.
The High Court ruled that an estranged couple's Islamic faith marriage, conducted in a ceremony called a nikah, falls under British matrimonial law despite it not being legally recognised as such.
It means Nasreen Akhtar will be free to bring her case to the divorce court and claim her share of the assets of her marriage where she previously would not have been able to.
In the high-profile case Mrs Akhtar and her businessman husband Mohammed Shabaz Khan were deemed to have a valid marriage.
This comes after `British' MP Labour MP Naseem Shah a few years ago retweeting a vile comment by a British left-wing homosexual Labour Party activist Owen Jones, who said about the "Asian" [rape] victims of Rotherham UK, some as young as 10, should " ‘shut their mouths for the good of diversity’.
Naseem Shah نسیم شاہ is MP for Bradford West UK where
Bradford grooming gang jailed for total of 132 years for raping and abusing under-age girls in care
Prosecutors say victims suffered "appalling catalogue of degrading emotional and sexual abuse which has deprived them of their childhood"
But the victims should keep their mouths shut!?
Even the use of the word "Asian" to describe these rape gangs is an offense in itself to other peoples of Asia. We know for instance that these rape gangs are not Japanese, or Chinese yet these peoples are being dragged into the same net as the perverted paedophiles that are raping white children up and down out country.
And now they want to stop calling out someone for what they are because -Anil Kanti Basu, QPM a senior British police officer has said: “These do not help community relations and public confidence."
Instead, they are suggested to use the Arabic word, Irhabi, which is used throughout the Middle East to describe extremest views.
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The National Association of Police Organizations has endorsed President Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election, citing his 'steadfast' support for law enforcement in a climate of anti-police protests.
NAPO President Michael McHale announced the endorsement in a public letter to Trump on Wednesday, after leaders of the group met with the president on Monday.
"We particularly value your directing the Attorney General to aggressively prosecute those who attack our officers,' the union wrote.
It was always going to happen for Trump. He has supported the Police from day one.
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This thread ties in nicely with another thread that I have created to do with the diminishing of Christianity and what has been argued on that thread here #1
The times Christians and others have predicted the "second coming" and been left with egg on their faces is absolutely mind numbing.
Hippolytus of Rome along with Sextus Julius Africanus & Irenaeus appear to be the first recorded prediction which a date of the year 500 was predicted. This prediction was based one nothing else but the measurements of Noah's Ark. This turned out to be a no show.
Then came Beatus of Liébana who was adamant that the "return" of Jesus would happen in the month of April in the year 793. And threw in the "end of the world" would also happen.
Then there was another 12 failed predictions that took us up to the early 1800's and in that stretch of time there were 9! failed predictions for the second coming of the Christ.
Now, predictions stretched into the 1900's with Catholic Apostolic Church . This church, claimed that Jesus would return by the time the last of its 12 founding members died. The last member died in 1901...... when , not unsurprisingly there was no appearance of Jesus.
And there was some 15 predictions for the coming of the Christ Jesus for the years 1900 and 2000. And they too came and went. that's 15 more no shows.
Then another 9 more failed predictions including the return of Christ in September 2011 - 20012 and 2013.
This takes us up nicely to our time where - in our time more predictions for the second coming have been made.
2020
Jeane Dixon
The alleged psychic claimed that Armageddon would take place in 2020 and Jesus would return to defeat the unholy Trinity of the Antichrist, Satan and the False prophet between 2020 and 2037.[37]
2021
F. Kenton "Doc" Beshore
Beshore bases his prediction on the prior suggestion that Jesus could return in 1988, i.e., within one Biblical generation (40 years) of the founding of Israel in 1948. Beshore argues that the prediction was correct, but that the definition of a Biblical generation was incorrect and was actually 70–80 years, placing the Second Coming of Jesus between 2018 and 2028 and the Rapture by 2021 at the latest.[38]
2024
Unsealed World News
A number of Christians believe that the Revelation 12 Sign (as popularised by the site Unsealed.org) marks the year of the Rapture, and that after a seven-year tribulation period the Second Coming of Jesus would occur. This seven-year span would also be marked by the 2017 Great American Eclipse and the subsequent 2024 American Eclipse.
2025
Alice A. Bailey
In January 1946, the New Age Theosophical guru prophesied that Christ would return "sometime after AD 2025":530 (Theosophists identify "Christ" as being identical to a being they call Maitreya) to inaugurate the Age of Aquarius; thus, this event will be, according to Bailey, the New Age equivalent of the Christian concept of the Second Coming).Alice A. Bailey stated that St. Germain is the manager of the executive council of the Christ (Like C.W. Leadbeater, Alice A. Bailey refers to St. Germain as the Master Rakoczi or the Master R. in her books);:508 thus, according to Alice A. Bailey, St. Germain's primary task is to prepare the way for the Second Coming.
2029
Jakob Lorber
Austrian musician who wrote during 24 years a vast number of works later called the New Revelation, claimed to be received through an inner voice which belonged to Jesus Christ, offered many detailed prophecies concerning the unfolding of the Second Coming, pointing to a time before the passing of 2,000 years after the death of Christ on the cross (note that most scholars assume a date of birth of Jesus between 6 BC and 4 BC).
By 2057
Frank J. Tipler
In 1994, the physicist Frank J. Tipler published a book called The Physics of Immortality, in which he claimed to scientifically prove the existence of God as a consequence of what he calls the Omega Point Theory. In 2007, he published a sequel to The Physics of Immortality called The Physics of Christianity, which applies the principles of the Omega Point Theory to the Christian religion. In this 2007 book, he asserts in the first chapter that the Second Coming of Christ will occur within 50 years, i.e., by 2057, and will be coincident with what futurist Ray Kurzweil calls the Singularity (which Kurzweil himself predicts will occur by 2045).
Jeane Dixon
The alleged psychic claimed that Armageddon would take place in 2020 and Jesus would return to defeat the unholy Trinity of the Antichrist, Satan and the False prophet between 2020 and 2037.[37]
2021
F. Kenton "Doc" Beshore
Beshore bases his prediction on the prior suggestion that Jesus could return in 1988, i.e., within one Biblical generation (40 years) of the founding of Israel in 1948. Beshore argues that the prediction was correct, but that the definition of a Biblical generation was incorrect and was actually 70–80 years, placing the Second Coming of Jesus between 2018 and 2028 and the Rapture by 2021 at the latest.[38]
2024
Unsealed World News
A number of Christians believe that the Revelation 12 Sign (as popularised by the site Unsealed.org) marks the year of the Rapture, and that after a seven-year tribulation period the Second Coming of Jesus would occur. This seven-year span would also be marked by the 2017 Great American Eclipse and the subsequent 2024 American Eclipse.
2025
Alice A. Bailey
In January 1946, the New Age Theosophical guru prophesied that Christ would return "sometime after AD 2025":530 (Theosophists identify "Christ" as being identical to a being they call Maitreya) to inaugurate the Age of Aquarius; thus, this event will be, according to Bailey, the New Age equivalent of the Christian concept of the Second Coming).Alice A. Bailey stated that St. Germain is the manager of the executive council of the Christ (Like C.W. Leadbeater, Alice A. Bailey refers to St. Germain as the Master Rakoczi or the Master R. in her books);:508 thus, according to Alice A. Bailey, St. Germain's primary task is to prepare the way for the Second Coming.
2029
Jakob Lorber
Austrian musician who wrote during 24 years a vast number of works later called the New Revelation, claimed to be received through an inner voice which belonged to Jesus Christ, offered many detailed prophecies concerning the unfolding of the Second Coming, pointing to a time before the passing of 2,000 years after the death of Christ on the cross (note that most scholars assume a date of birth of Jesus between 6 BC and 4 BC).
By 2057
Frank J. Tipler
In 1994, the physicist Frank J. Tipler published a book called The Physics of Immortality, in which he claimed to scientifically prove the existence of God as a consequence of what he calls the Omega Point Theory. In 2007, he published a sequel to The Physics of Immortality called The Physics of Christianity, which applies the principles of the Omega Point Theory to the Christian religion. In this 2007 book, he asserts in the first chapter that the Second Coming of Christ will occur within 50 years, i.e., by 2057, and will be coincident with what futurist Ray Kurzweil calls the Singularity (which Kurzweil himself predicts will occur by 2045).
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Gov. Tim Walz denied "disaster" aid by Trump.
He was offered help from Trump to sort the problem, he refused now he want's a hand out.
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A social experiment by Ami Horowitz shows New Yorkers gleefully signing a petition to take down statues of “slave owners” like George Washington, but suddenly becoming reticent when Horowitz mentions the Prophet Muhammad.
“I want to take down all statues of people who owned slaves in this country,” Horowitz told potential signatories, emphasizing how he wanted to remove the statue of George Washington in DC."
All of the people featured in the video gleefully signed the petition to take down statues of “slave owners” like Washington and Jefferson.
However, when it came to another infamous historical slave owner:
However, when it came to another infamous historical slave owner:
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A question asked by someone here who is going to have to face a few home truths and facts.
Ethang5 asked:
Why Is Christianity #1?
But also dying a very speedy death . It is being stealthily replaced by that barbaric ideology called Islam. Maybe the time of the fish has passed, who knows?
I am so glad I won't be here to see its complete takeover. Watching it happen is torture enough. They'll soon have you mumbling into a carpet every Friday ethang5, see if Jesus helps you then. Hold on! Isn't Jehovah, Allah and Jesus all the same god?
Europe’s Growing Muslim Population
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
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What an extremely pleasant lady.
Celebrated BLM Toronto leader called white people ‘subhuman’ and with genetic defects’
Social media posts from a co-founder of the Black Lives Matter movement in Toronto have resurfaced in which she calls white people “subhuman” and describes them as having “recessive genetic defects.” In a since-deleted post, Yusra Khogali tried to use genetics to justify the highly offensive and racist descriptors by referencing melatonin production to explain how whites are “defects.” The old Facebook post has since gone viral after being shared on Twitter by scholar James Lindsay. “A charming message from the head of BLM Toronto, who has been honored (a few years ago) by the city of Ontario for exemplary leadership,” he wrote in the message, which features a graphic of Khogali’s post. Another post retweeted by a user simply going by the handle “Adam” includes a graphic depicting a Feb. 9, 2016, Twitter message by Khogali that says, “Plz Allah give me strength not to cuss/kill these white men and white folks out here toda ...
BLM the irony
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Part of a 2.5 Million euro program to deter potential migrant rapist and teach them how to behave towards girls and women.
To a migrant rapist ; "🎵 🎶 ♯ ♫ ♬ stop! don't touch me 🎶 ♯ there, this is my no,no square 🎵 🎶 ♯ ,♫ ♬ .♩ ♪ ♭ ♮ "
You couldn't make it up?
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" We are being sold a lot of lies that is a detriment to black & white community."
" George Floyd was not a model for black America".
"Police officers have way way more to be fearful of the black community that the other way round"
1998 theft with a fire arm. 10 months.
2002 cocaine offence. 8 months.
2004 another cocaine offence. 10 months.
2005 another cocaine offence. 10 months.
2007 George (& co) went up a few gears and gravitated to Floyd and five accomplices crashing into a pregnant woman's home armed with a gun threatening to shoot the unborn baby for which he serves a paltry five years.
` and just when George was getting his life together and had become and exemplary character in the community ` (CNN) , a white police officer murdered George when caught attempting to pass a fake bill and while high as albatross.
Some more interesting statistics from an intelligent black woman
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Since I came to this forum it has dawned on me that those that `believe ` and are devoted to Christianity only seem to want to discuss the "qualities " of god and or Jesus; how "god loves us" and cares for us and how "Jesus died for us". How Jesus literally "healed the sick and the blind". How he was "taken up to heaven" literally. And of course, discuss the lovely beautiful place called paradise we are said to go to when we are dead- if we have been good .
Christians never seem to be able to or really want to discuss the actual content of biblical scriptures themselves. These scriptures that are supposed to be the inspired words of their god Jesus are full of unexplainable, ambiguous, contradictory half stories and verses that Christians just don't seem to want to face and fail to explain when they try.
ie
[A] Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword".
[B] Luke 22:36 "He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one [a sword]".
[C] Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword".
So, the intention is clear at [A] and [B] seems to support the intentions of [A] that is until we get to [C] which contradicts both [A] & [B]. Not to mention that Christians call their God Jesus "the Prince of Peace", while Exodus tells us that their God Jesus is a man of war and a Jealous god. while Job 5:2 informs us that; "Surely resentment destroys the fool, and jealousy kills the simple.
A Christian will try to explain this away by informing you, that it is you that is at fault and not the scripture, with various reasons including that "you cannot read" or worse.
Christians want the educated 21st century person just to accept everything that is said about god and Jesus without question as was the case hundreds of thousands of years BC & early AD. Christians appear to have ignored that fact that the human race has educated itself since the days of Noah & Moses and all those other biblical patriarchs and that superstition hardly plays no part in 21st century man's thinking.
Aaron's staff turned into a serpent, it was a miracle performed by god. The Egyptian priests staffs were also turned into serpents, but by black magic.
Christians, ALWAYS take it as a direct insult to themselves and their faith when approached with these anomalous biblical contradictory half stories. And to point out the hundreds of biblical contradictions to Christians it is taken that the questioner as being audacious and insulting. Do they not realise that by taking this attitude and stance against those that question these unreliable scriptures that they themselves are contradicting the instructions their own scriptures!?
I take it as a direct insult when I am told that I "cannot read". That "I am taking thing out of context". That "I will never be able to understand - unless I believe". any many of the hundreds of insults and excuses they will throw at anyone simply that simply question what is there to be questioned. Christians simply forget that the questioner has absolutely nothing to defend when discussing and disputing claims made in the biblical scriptures.
Christians need to understand that today, in the 21st century, one doesn't have to have faith and believe in their god Jesus, before they can read the bible for themselves and on their own.
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Just a few examples of the many evasive, silent, and secretive half stories from the gospelers.
"But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;". John 12:10 But it is never explained why? What had Lazarus done for those Priests to want to kill him? We are never told, why?
Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, Why? What happened to Lazarus after his once dead, rotting and stinking corpse had been made alive again? He just disappears from the Jesus story altogether.John 11:38-44 Why? where did he go?
We are (eventually)allowed to know the name of a non-entity servant named Malchus who had his ear sliced off by ‘I forget to turn the other cheek’ Simon, John 18:10 ,yet not allowed to know what should be two of the most important names In all of the New Testament when it came to Jesus’ trial.
“At the last came two false witnesses,And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days”. Matthew 26:59-63. Just who were these two dirty scoundrels who were more than prepared to bare false witness about gods only son? Why are they not named by the gospel writers? Why the silence? They give every other detail but the names of these two perjurers? .
"There was a certain man casting out demons". Who was this other miracle worker that didn’t belong to the Jesus movement directly? Where did he get his power to drive out demons? What was his name? Why are we not allowed to know his name? Why was he working freelance? Mark 9 ;38
Then there was a unnamed “certain Pharisee” Luke 7:36
Why the secrecy? Why not name him? What was the meeting about? Was this yet another Pharisee priest or member of the Sanhedrin council who couldn’t be named or even seen with Jesus? If so, why?
And at the same house there was a unnamed woman. She was crying and washing the feet of Jesus and drying away her tears with her hair. Why? What was she crying about? Jesus didn’t even ask her why she was crying and just laid back in a chair and let her get on with it without a care in the world about this woman’s sadness.
No one asked ; `why are you doing that woman'? This unnamed women just turned up, with a jar of expensive oil on hearing that Jesus would be present at a meal.
There are neither reasons given nor explanations for this odd behaviour. Jesus seems to have expected it,there were no protestations from him about this crying woman in distress and obvious sorrow..
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I have created one or two threads concerning Satan/Lucifer. In one of those threads it was seen to have been strongly suggested that Lucifer was also know as the light bringing "morning start". #2 and some biblical scholars seem to agree.https://www.history.com/topics/folklore/history-of-the-devil
It was also suggested in the link below that Lucifer was the "serpent" who tempted Eve AKA Satan and Devil and the same is referred to as "“the ancient serpent” (Revelation 12:9, 20:2)
So all of these titles appear all to be references to the same being. And this verse is believed by Christians to be a reference to Lucifer and all his titles :Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
I am sure that this will be vehemently denied by Christians as referring to Satan aka Lucifer and all his other epithets.
And for one simple reason. Jesus (their god) also calls himself;
" the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” (Revelation 22:16)…
Could it really be that Lucifer is just another name for Jesus of which he had many.? We are never allowed to forget that Jesus was with god from the beginning, as was Lucifer Satan /devil serpent, where he was also known as the Word. John 1
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The Philosopher Celsus critisised Christians for trying to pass off the Jesus story as a new revelation when it was actually an inferior imitation of pagan myths. He asked:
" Are these distinctive happenings unique to the Christians - and if so, how are they unique"? Or are ours to be accounted myths and theirs believed? What reasons do Christians give for the distinctiveness of their beliefs? In truth there is nothing at all about what the Christians believe, except that they believe it to exclusion of the more comprehensive truths about god" Indeed, and well said that man.
How could pagan myths which predate Christian beliefs about their god-man Jesus by hundreds if not thousands of years (in the case of Mesopotamian myths and legends) have so much in common with the life story ' one and only savior ' Jesus ?
The common thread that relates all the gods and heroes of many cultures and religions is the myth that these deities, for one reason or another , die and then after their corpse's have been left stinking and rotting in one kind of a tomb or grave for days on end, they have suddenly and for reasons explainable, have just, hey presto! sprung back to life.!!! like is was all magic trick. <<<<< there may be some truth to that yet.
It also appears that many of these - once dead for a few days and come alive again gods - have another thing in common, they are all, or many of them are born of virgins where some god/ or ghost or spirit as come unto them while they slept and then come into them thereby impregnating them with the new god or hero them.
Examples:
Gautama Buddha: born of the virgin Maya Around 600 BC
Dionysus: Greek god, born of a virgin in a stable and turned water into wine !!!
Quirrnus: born of a virgin and known as a Savior.
Attis: born of a virgin in Phrygia around 200 BC
Indra: born of a virgin in Tibet around 700 BC.
Krishna: Hindu god, born of a virgin devaki around 1200BC.
Adonis: Babylonian god born of a virgin ishtar.
Zoroaster: born of a virgin around 1500 BC.
And there is Mithra. Mithra is particularly problematic for Christians as I once explained here #12 and here's why:
Christianity/ Christians, who have adopted all kinds of myths and legends (and gods) ,from many cultures will deny anything that shines a light on how fraudulent their `religion` actually is. The whole foundation of their/christian ideology comes from Persia. Before the Christ there have been many dying and rising gods born of "virgins" but the one in particular that is awkward for Christians is the cult of Mithra; born of a virgin, in a stable on 25 December over 600 years before Christ!!!! Mithraism is an off-shoot of the more ancient Persian cult of Zoroaster which was introduced into the Roman Empire around 67 BC.
Zoroastrian beliefs and doctrines include immortality, a sacramental meal, a savior god, resurrection, last judgment, heaven hell and a few other things that I can't remember off the top of my head. Yet you can guarantee that Christians will have it that Mithraism/ Zoroastrianism are both pagan religions, while denying that their own religion has very firm foundations in both these `pagan` cultures.
So, over the centuries it can be clearly seen that many innocent young girls have been giving birth to children of gods and if the Romans had decided to adopt any other one of these dying and rising gods born of virgins, then we may have been reading things like ' Attis loves you, ' or `Quirrnus saves ' in the back windows of modern vehicles today in the 21st century.
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Jesus Before Pilate
28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?
30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.
31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.
“It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:” they objected. WhAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!??
Had these Jewish leaders forgotten their own laws laid down by the great Lawgiver himself; Moses? The very same Laws that Jesus stressed he hadn't come to change? And hadn't they attempted to "execute" Jesus for blasphemy TWICE already, but he had managed to escape? The first was in John 8, and again at John 10.
Did Jewish leaders suffer selective memory loss?
Were they not going to carry out the laws of Moses against an adulteress with "execution" by stoning? John 7.
What about Stephen? He was "executed" by being stoned to death for blasphemy, the worst crime one can commit "in all of jewelry".Acts 7
Why are the gospel writers silent on this so obvious lie, especially Mathew, who was forever reaching for his trusty Old Testament in his desperation to link (falsely) the Christ with Old Testament `prophesies `.
And there is this:
28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. WhAAAAT!
Then how did the Jewish leaders or anyone know what was spoken between Pilate and the Christ???? <<<<< This, before one gets around to asking how did the gospel writers come to write a dialogue that had taken place where only two people were present and anything up to a 100+ years after the alleged fact??
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It is common knowledge now that parts of the earlier Old Testament are stories of even older stories that come from Mesopotamia, today Iraq. The Flood story and the Creation story are all later versions of much older epics written down by the Sumerians. which brings me to the question of the story of Moses.
Part, if not all of the Moses story is also from a much older Mesopotamian myth concerning King Sargon of Akad. Akad was the name of a Mesopotamian city and its surrounding area.
In Exodus 2-3 we read : "And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink".
And, over a thousand years before the Moses story we have this coming from the Mesopotamian epics;
My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me.
She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen [tar and pitch] she sealed my lid.
She cast me into the river which rose not over me (1,000 plus years prior Biblical Moses),
The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water.
Akki, the drawer of water, lifted me out as he dipped his pot.
Akki, the drawer of water, [took me] as his son and reared me.
She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen [tar and pitch] she sealed my lid.
She cast me into the river which rose not over me (1,000 plus years prior Biblical Moses),
The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water.
Akki, the drawer of water, lifted me out as he dipped his pot.
Akki, the drawer of water, [took me] as his son and reared me.
Does this make the Moses story a complete fabrication? Did Moses even exist? Was he just an invention of the Israelites? Or simply a story taken and adopted ( for reason at tis time , unknown? ) by the Israelites.
This isn't the only story from the Mesopotamian region that tells of babies in reed baskets either . It concerns a race know to the Sumerians as Anunnaki ( Anakim in the Old Testament)
“among the bulrushes, in reed baskets have I them found.
Ninki to the foundlings a likening took, as her own children she raised them.
Adapa she called the foundling boy, the girl she called Titi”.
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A Woman Caught in AdulteryJohn 8: 1-11
Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her [to death]. What do you say?”
6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
The Pharisee were correct of course :Leviticus 20:10
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
What Would Have Happened To This Woman If Jesus Hadn't Have Stepped In?
Did Jesus save this woman's life?
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The New Testament version of the Christs death by crucifixion has always been a prickly subject for the theist. Was it him/Jesus on the cross? Did he really die did? Was it all staged and faked?
Islam has it that while they believe Jesus existed, that he was only a prophet and not gods son, and that his believed death on the cross was all faked:
ﭰ ﭱ ﭲ ﭳ ﭴ ﭵ ﭶ ﭷ ﭸ ﭹ ﭺ ﭻ ﭼ ﭽ ﭾ ﭿ ﮀﮁ ﮂ ﮃ ﮄ ﮅ ﮆ ﮇ ﮈﮉ ﮊ ﮋ ﮌ ﮍ ﮎ ﮏ ﮐ ﮑﮒ ﮓ ﮔ ﮕ
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. 4:157
https://quran.com/4/157-158Who was this other?
The Christian take on this subject is well known and believed by millions : Jesus was sentenced to death, another carried his cross, he was nailed up, didn't have his legs broken as did the two hanging with him and to the surprise of Pilate, he died unusually quickly. Then he came back from the dead three days later. As can be read here>> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A32-56&version=NIV
Interesting that Islam has it that "another" took the place of the Christ while the bible has it that "another" carried the cross of Jesus, Simon of Cyrene. Matthew 27:32
It is also interesting that the Nag Hammadi library also known as the "Gnostic Gospels" a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town after which these scrolls are named in 1945, also appear to agree with the Islamic account of the Christ's supposed crucifixion. 56.6 - 19 NHL 332. It has the Christ himself saying "it was not I".
And then there was the late 2nd-century Christian writer Irenaeus who wrote about the teachings of a Gnostic leader named Basilides, who claimed:
"He did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all," (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book I, Chapter 24, Section 4).
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mercy
/ˈməːsi/
Learn to pronounce
noun
- compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm."the boy was screaming and begging for mercy"Similar:leniency, lenience, clemency, compassion, grace, pityThere are many verses in the bible that just cannot be misinterpreted , misread or misunderstood, as much as the apologist will have us believe that they can.
For instance Luke 6:36 "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful". So here "the father" - I am going to assume means god, -is merciful.
And there can be no mistaking what is meant by this verse either:
Ephesians 2:4 "But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy".
So what happened to for example, Lot's wife?
"But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt". Genesis 19:26 Murdered just for looking in the wrong direction at the wrong time. Fair enough, they were all given a warning but to be sentenced to death for simple human curiosity is not showing mercy is it? she wasn't even given a chance to "repent" either! Where was god's mercy?
Children mauled to death for name calling!
2 Kings 2:23-24 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them".
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them".
And " baldy" aka Elisha, didn't bat an eyelid, he simply went on his way. Not a single bit of mercy was shown towards these children by "the father".
No mercy was shown to Job's children when "the father " sanctioned the murder of all of them for no reason at all. Job 1:13-22
There are many of these verses where god, "the Father" who loves us shows that he has not a single merciful bone in his body.
One can only suppose that to god, "the father who is full of mercy"..... and to Christian apologists, mercy must mean something different to what any level - headed human being understands mercy to mean.
Lets have another look at the meaning of mercy.
mercy
/ˈməːsi/
Learn to pronounce
noun
- compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm."the boy was screaming and begging for mercy"Similar:leniency, lenience, clemency, compassion, grace, pity
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Dr Dan Erickson & Dr Massihi
"there is something else going on"
Elon Musk blasts YouTube for banning Californian doctors' video that claimed physicians are being pressurized into putting Coronavirus on death certificates and urged an end to shutdowns
- Critics have slammed YouTube for saying clip 'violated community guidelines'
- In it, Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi criticized California's shutdown
- They also claimed that doctors are being pressured into boosting death tolls
- They presented statistics which many claimed were skewed and inaccurate
- But Elon Musk shared their video and said they made 'good points'
- YouTube said their viewpoint disputed 'local health authority' guidance
- But critics blast YouTube for 'censoring' the video after it got 5 million views
- They also claimed it was a sign Big Tech is trying to control information
- YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki said videos against WHO policy will be taken down
- Facebook and Twitter have also been criticized over 'misinformation' policies
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Elon Musk and a host of critics have slammed YouTube for removing a video of two doctors suggesting COVID-19 death tolls are being boosted and urging an end to lockdowns because they do more harm than good.
The site took down the video of news conference featuring Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, who run a private urgent-care clinic in Bakersfield, California, on Monday because they claim it violated their user policy by disputing health officials.
But the move has been blasted as censorship and a worrying sign of big tech companies trying to control information during the pandemic and quashing free speech.
Social media giants Facebook and Twitter are also coming under increasing scrutiny for removing posts that they say contain health misinformation or calls to break stay-at-home orders.
The hour-long video with Drs Erickson and Massihi suggesting stay-at-home orders are damaging drew a massive audience, garnering more than five million views before it was removed.
Using testing stats from their urgent care centers, they argue that the mortality rate for coronavirus is minuscule and that lockdowns are disruptive to normal healthcare provision, the functioning of healthy immune systems and are devastating to the economy.
The doctors also share anecdotes, which they say come from colleagues in hospitals, claiming that there is pressure to add COVID-19 as a cause of death to unrelated fatalities to artificially boost the death toll.
'It's time to open back up. The science says it is. The models we've been using from predictions, to predict the amount of disease, are not accurate,' Erikson said in the press conference.
Tesla CEO Musk, an increasingly outspoken critic of lockdowns, shared the video on Twitter before it was taken down, adding the comment, 'Docs make good points.'
California doctors call COVID-19 shutdowns 'disruptive' to healthcare
'This. Is. Censorship. On what is arguably the most important media platform in the United States,' tweeted Alex Berenson, a former New York Times reporter who has emerged as one of the strongest skeptics of the lockdowns.
In a blistering opening monologue on Tuesday night, Fox News host Tucker Carlson also railed against the 'ludicrous' measures by big tech companies to control what they call misinformation during the pandemic.
'When this is all over, it's likely we'll look back on this moment, what YouTube just did, as a turning point in the way we live in this country, a sharp break with 250 years of law and custom,' Carlson said.
'The doctors' video was produced by a local television channel. It was, in fact a mainstream news story,' Carlson continued. 'The only justification for taking it down was that the physicians on-screen had reached different conclusions than the people currently in charge.'
Last week, YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki told CNN that 'anything that would go against World Health Organization recommendations would be a violation of our policy.'
'Consider that for a moment,' Carlson responded. 'As a matter of science, it's ludicrous. Like everyone else involved in global pandemic policy, the WHO has been wrong in its recommendations. In January, WHO told us that coronavirus could not spread from person-to-person. In March, they told us that face masks didn't work. Those are lies and they were welcome on Google's platforms.'
Former CNN producer Steve Krakauer said in his Fourth Watch media newsletter that this was an 'egregious censorship effort on the part of YouTube' that should make all journalists concerned.
He added: 'YouTube can take down this video, of course. But should they? Absolutely not.
'These doctors weren't calling for people to cough on other citizens. They weren't even questioning whether injecting disinfectant might be a good idea.
'They were using data to suggest a Sweden model of eased lockdown may be effective. That's not damaging to the public to watch.'
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For all the amount of absolute nonsense concerning Moses and Egypt the silliest (although cruelest & deadliest) part has to be the murder by god, of all Egypt's first born.
"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well".Exodus 12:29
God by all accounts, murdered these innocents because Pharaoh had refused to let the Israelites go. Why had Pharaoh refused to let them go? Because:
"the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
Is it any wonder then how and why "the lord" was able to predict to Moses that Pharaoh wouldn't comply!?
So this savage brutal lord had made sure that Pharaoh wouldn't comply and then murdered all the first born of that land as a punishment for Pharaoh not complying.
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" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16
"So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” Genesis 6:7 So then the god of this verse went on to destroy all of the earth and its inhabitants.
How do the apologist square these two contradictory biblical verses? Even to the atheist reading these text as ancient mythology, it would not go unnoticed that these two verses speak of two different gods. Yet the Christians will have it that these beings are one and the same.
I suppose if one was to look hard enough we could say, at a push, that sending your only son to die an unnecessary death on behalf of others would qualify as a barbaric act and therefor equal the callous barbarity of the Genesis verse. But that would really be pushing it. As one appears to be an act of some kind of warped and twisted benevolence and the other a straightforward case of violence murdering millions of innocent men women and children.
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The sermon On The Mount is by all accounts about rewards in heaven and seeing god .
So lets look at a random few of these beatitudes said to have been spoken by The Christ himself.
Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.".
I have been accused of being extremely poor in spirit by a few people here where they have politely added that I would "burn in hell". But those same people never have they been able to (1) tell me where heaven is, (2)what it is (3) and what happens when I get there. And you can imagine the giant swerves, stumbles and stuttering for words when I point out what Jesus says about the likes of me and my lack of spirit?
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
I believe we can all be meek at times depending on the situation. It doesn't take a belief in god. Besides, why will the meek only inherit the earth and not share in the kingdom of heaven with the much less poor inspirit? It makes no sense.
Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Is this a threat? What about those who have shown no mercy? And If mercy is such a great virtue then why wouldn't god show mercy to the merciless?
Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
What does it even mean to be pure in heart? And aren't we all born sinners anyway? and what about the peacemakers and the merciful and meek? will they not see god?
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Why? Why are not the "pure in heart" called the children of god? Or "the merciful"? Or "the meek"?
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I opened a thread asking by what other names or titles Satan went by. From among the few came the name Lucifer.
A search on the name has many theological and biblical web sites claiming to know who Lucifer is and where about in the bible we can reference him. I will pick just two of the hundreds that make the same or similar claims. ; "20 bible verses about Lucifer". Of course, when we read these verses Lucifer isn't mentioned once never mind 20!?
Bible Verses about Lucifer
Compiled and Edited by Bible Study Tools Staff on 4/11/2018
And to this site https://www.christianity.com/theology/theological-faq/how-did-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html it attempts to explain who Lucifer is by asking a question ;
"How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan"? and goes on to make this bold statement; "The story of Lucifer’s fall is described in two key Old Testament chapters—Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. Let’s briefly look at both of these. ". At least this site makes the claim that Satan and Lucifer are one and the same, as someone did on the thread mentioned above. But with no evidence that this is in fact the case.
Yet when we do, surprise, surprise , we find not single mention of Lucifer in either Isaiah or Ezekiel. Why do they do this. why do they have to continually lie and make things up as they go. It appears that Christians are all for ' we'll answer that question if and when it arises ' . but it must have arisen some time ago and the excuses and answers for such a character existing are so weak and worn out that they can all be dismissed with ease.
Lucifer simply isn't mentioned in the bible at all, anywhere. Yet Christians will speak of this being as if he was a regular character who is accused of many heinous crimes.
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How our reactions around the world to a flu virus is somehow equated to the world embracing Islam. And we all have had " a change of heart" .towards islam
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I asked on a thread sometime ago ".Who was the serpent that had tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden."
It was unanimous that this being was also the same being spoken of in the book of Revelation know as Satan and “the ancient serpent” (Revelation 12:9, 20:2).
Can anyone tell me by what other titles/names that the bible refers to this being as?
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No matter how many times I have pointed to god, creating, causing and doing bad/evil things, the apologist try their apologetic best to counter with " this is not gods doing" OR god didn't create anything evil" etc etc .
But never will they put forward an opinion or even a theory of where all of the bad and evil in the world originated.
I have claimed that the bible itself says that god "created all things" so everything bad or evil created is all down to god..
"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him" - including all sickness and disease. mental illness, genetic errors and defects. Volcanoes that destroy towns and cities around the earth that he created with faults that cause earth quakes and tidal waves killing MILLIONS in the process. Yes , all gods handy work according to the bible itself.
But even this clear biblical evidence ( one of many) of god being the creator of "all things" is not enough to convince a theist that the word "all" means exactly what it says. No! The theist would argue that the bible - believed by millions to be the unshakable truth of god - doesn't actually mean "ALL" when it states "ALL" and spew out all kinds of biblical verses and other claptrap that some how and for some reason they offer that "proves" that "all" in the bible doesn't actually mean "all.
It is, by all accounts it seems, the fault of the atheist reader of these ambiguous scriptures for not understanding that words in the bible do not actually mean what they say with the best so far being that the word " kill " for instance,means something different to Christians than it does to any sane non believer.
Could the Christians here, just for once, explain to us where evil actually originated if it wasn't created by god?
Please be polite enough observe and adress the question with factual evidence. This doesn't mean posting and quoting billions of irrelevant biblical verses that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
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Exodus 20:13
"Thou shalt not kill".says God.
This didn't stop god murdering his faithful servant Ezekiel's wife for absolutely no reason other than to show who is boss. Ezekiel 24:15-24. and on top of it all, Ezekiel wasn't even allowed to mourn or weep for the loss of his great love.
These murders of innocent people committed by this psychopathic,megalomaniac jealous god of war don't stop there either. No. There is the sanctioning by god of the slaughter all of Jobs children for no other reason than to prove a point. Job 1:13-22. Job recognized by god as his most loyal and faithful servant.
And there is Jeroboam's son. Again no reason given for these murders only god was proving something. This child was killed to punish Jeroboam, to save him from a massacre God was planning for the rest of Jeroboam's family. Kings 14:10-18
There is the killing by god of Bathsheba's baby boy. No reason.
Uzzah. for saving gods sacred arc from tipping over.
Thousands of of Israelites for no other reason than because they didn't like the bread. And on and on and on it goes. There is no respite from gods wrath and the murder of innocents.
The questions that are raised by just these few horrific examples of murders of innocents by the adopted god of the Chrsitians are endless, but one shouldn't expect any fawning, led- by- the- nose- Christian to address the barbarity of this god who will murder for no reason and at the drop of a hat.
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This is the famous story as told by Jesus in parable. It tells of the son who squander his inheritance and the goes groveling back to his daddy. Yes I get it, it is a typical trope used often by bible authors and characters and preachers.
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. Luke 15:11-32https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32&version=NIV
But what is interesting in this story is the language i.e the metaphor that the father uses of the son once being "dead" and then "alive" again.
The story ends at 32 with the The Father repeating the saying to a disgruntled brother of the "dead" son. 32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
In any language we understand that one cannot be dead and then alive again except when Jesus, or a biblical author says so and a Christian takes it literally.
But notice, there is no mention here of anyone asking Jesus for instance, how did the boy die? Who brought him back to life? No one questioned or contradicted Jesus saying that ' one cannot die and come back to life ' either. And the reason for this is because those who had ears understood perfectly what Jesus meant.
This wild child obviously hadn't died and wasn't brought back to life again either, but we have to acknowledge that the Father referred to him as being "dead" but what he meant here was that the son had been a very naughty boy but had acknowledged his mistakes and returned to the fold of his father "alive" again.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32&version=KJV
How had this boy sinned against heaven?
There is no explanation as to why this son should believe he had sinned against "heaven" or should be described by Jesus as being "dead" for doing so.
What was different about this "death" than say the alleged "deaths" of Jairus' daughter or Widow's son?
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Yes, yet again we have more puzzling and confusing instructions given by the Christ to his disciples. I am referring to what has been called "The Great Commission". Simpy put it is an instruction by the Christ to his disciples to go out into the world and make more disciples.
"Make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A19&version=NIV
But if we back up a little in the same gospel we can read that this instruction is not as inclusive as it appears later:
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6).
This was not then the universal message that appears at Matthew 28:19 but an instruction to go to the "lost sheep of Israel" only. i.e. Jews and not all Jews either it appears the Samaritans - Israelite descendants were off the guest list too.
It appears too that this - not so - inclusive instruction doesn't apply to all the people of "all nations" either, when we read the words from the lips of the Christ himself and his encounter with the Canaanite woman:
Jesus rejected her plea to heal her daughter, saying; “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
The woman came and knelt before him and begged and pleaded. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (Matthew 15:24–6).
Canaanites are included in a list of nations to exterminate on the instructions of god in the book of Joshua
And staying with the Old Testament, we don’t find an all-inclusive message there, either.
No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the lord, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).
And god also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).
So what is to be made of this "Make disciples of all the nations, from (Matthew 28:19).
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........if God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the crucifixion and the supposed resurrection?
Please support any claims with factual evidence.
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Sad story of Job
Of all the examples of the unnecessary, wanton, willful and wastefully killing committed by god, the story of the murder of the children of Job has to be the worst singular example. , Satan Allowed to Test Job. Job 1:6-12
The particular murders of these TEN! children stands out simply because there is absolutely no reason given for these wanton, and willfully deliberate killings other than god wanting to prove a point. Satan Takes Job's Property and Children. Job 1:13-19
All murder of innocent people is abhorrent, even to some Christians I should imagine. But these particular killings are for no other reason than that god wanted to prove that he has a most loyal servant in Job, to someone, that he presumably had condemn and sentenced to spend "the rest of his life" on his belly eating "dust"!!! Genesis 3:14
I mean,why of all people or all things would GOD even feel the need to have to prove anything to anyone never mind a creature such as a belly-crawling dust eating lowlife?
Other examples of gods willful murder of innocents usually are accompanied with some trumped up charge or excuse of sinning and disobedience of one kind or another but not in this case.
Why Is life so cheap to god?
The story of job and the willful murder of all of Job's children can be read here.
Job 1:1-19 EnglishStandard Version (ESV)
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.......Who was the serpent that had tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden.
I have read what maybe a reference to the serpents identity but god forbid!!!! that I should bare false witness and identify the wrong person, if indeed it was even a person.
In the book of Revelation, Satan is called “the ancient serpent” (Revelation 12:9, 20:2), is this referring to the snake in Genesis?
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The double standards just do end ?
Moses' brother Aaron is a priest but more than that he is a prophet. And Moses is a god. <<<<< yes! a god<<<<<< We know this because another god said so.
Exodus 7:1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
Now read this:
Exodus 7:10-20 New International Version (NIV)
Aaron’s Staff Becomes a Snake
8 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 9 “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Perform a miracle,’ then say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh,’ and it will become a snake.”
10 So Moses (god) and Aaron (priest & prophet) went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake.
11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts:
12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13 Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.
Hands up those who spots the double standards in this story? There's clue is in the title.
double standard
noun
plural noun: double standards
- a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.
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Click link below to see the size of him.
He put the fat in fatwa.
A morbidly obese ISIS fanatic dubbed “Jabba the Jihadi” has been captured by Iraqi forces — who loaded him onto a flatbed truck because he couldn’t fit in a police car.
The 560-pound mufti Abu Abdul Bari, also known as Shifa al-Nima, was nabbed Thursday by an elite SWAT team of the Nineveh regiment in the city of Mosul, according to Stars and Stripes.
The jumbo jihadist was known for “provocative speeches against the security forces” and is considered one of the top leaders of “ISIS gangs,” Iraqi security officials said in a statement.
Bari issued religious decrees — or fatwas — ordering the execution of scholars and clerics who refused to pledge allegiance to ISIS when the terror group occupied the city, the statement said.
During the heyday of the group’s self-styled caliphate in 2014, he also ordered the destruction of a mosque built at the site believed to be the burial place of the biblical prophet Jonah, who once had a famous encounter with a whale.
Maajid Nawaz, [ a self confessed terrorist recruiter and ex jailbird rewarded with a top job with a popular Radio Station in England LBC] founder of the London-based anti-extremism think Quilliam, also shared images of the heavyweight’s arrest.
“He was so overweight, maybe from remaining sedentary in his hiding place, that he had to be taken by police in the back of a pick up truck,” he wrote on Facebook.
“Most religious justifications provided to ISIS for enslaving, raping, torturing, ethnic cleansing & massacring Iraqis, Syrians & others are from this paltry beast who can’t even stand on his own two legs,” he wrote.
“Do not underestimate the psychological blow the image of this obese monster being arrested is to ISIS. Gluttony is frowned upon by jihadists. But also, ISIS branded themselves as fighters possessing rare courage & discipline… meanwhile this walrus was their top religious cleric.”
And in an ode to the epic space saga, he added: “Today was a good day for the Force & a bad day for evil.”
Macer Gifford, a British citizen who fought with a US-backed Kurdish militia in Syria, applauded the arrest and compared Bari to the slug-like gang lord of the Star Wars universe who lived on the desert planet Tatooine.
“I’m delighted to say that the Islamic State’s very own Jabba the Hutt has been captured in Mosul,” he said in a tweet.
“As long as the Devil bastes him properly Shifa al Nima should crisp nicely in hell… He literally looks like the world’s biggest chicken,” Gifford said.
Referring to Bari’s heft, he added: “Good luck hanging him Iraq.”
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"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24
This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.
What was wrong with pious rich men entering the kingdom of god?
Why would it be less easier for a rich man than it would for a less well off man to enter the kingdom of god?
And what is actually meant by "the kingdom of God"?
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Continued from part 1 here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3526/john-the-baptist-part-1-confrontation?page=1&post_number=1
Of the many questions we have to ask ourselves is, if we are to take this story at face value and true then why did John the Baptist want Jesus to baptize him?
In Christianity it is said baptism is an initiation of sorts into the Christian faith and family. Some say it also washes away our sins. So then this raises two more problems and two more questions. (1) This was no Christian ceremony as both Jesus and John were Jews. So what was the reason for baptism of any one of these Jews. (2) What sins had John the Baptist committed to have his sins washed away? Or what sins had Jesus committed to have his sins washed away?
John the Baptist on the one hand tells us he didn’t know Jesus,but if this indeed be the case, then how did he recognize Jesus as “the one to come”.
No one has disputed that john the Baptist had his own disciples before Jesus came on the scene which is just as well as the evidence is overwhelming. And John continued to have disciples after his arrest, which raises one of the biggest questions of all concerning this whole bullshit story. John eventually baptized Jesus, he then, so the gospel tells us that those present seen “a spirit like a dove from heaven”, not only does he tell us what he seen, he also tells what he heard and somehow this confirmed everything for him.
So then, John is totally convinced that he got the right man but then this happens.
John gets himself arrested by all accounts and so begins to wonder and have serious doubt if he had actually baptized and anointed the right person??!!!! YOU JUST COULDN’T MAKE IT UP!!!
YES!!! The greatest prophet who had “ever lived” was now, even after seeing the spirit descend like a dove, and after hearing the voice of GOD HIMSELF!!!! “saying,this is my son and I love him” he sends some of his disciples to Jesus to ask:
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”. Matthew 11:1-3
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the greatest prophet that ever lived.
We have to look at this closely. John The baptist prophesies of Jesus coming , he then witnesses a spirit landing on Jesus like “a dove” and also hears the voice of god,but then has serious doubts about Jesus being “the one”?
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We are introduced to the Baptist the so called forerunner to Jesus and now as a fully grown man by the gospeller Matthew like so:
Matthew 3: (NIV).
3 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+3%3A1-6&version=NIV
The bible doesn’t say if indeed the Baptist was a priest or not, but the reader should not be surprised that in John’s gospel at . John 1:28.NIV we can read
1:28 “This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A28&version=NIV
And one shouldn't be surprised at all at this `coincidence` because this just happened to be the very place where Jesus was anointed, met a leper, ate supper, lived off women "of their substance" and of course brought a " dead " man back to life.
So at 1:28 it is here then at Bethany that John routinely baptized at or near his place of residence and here it was that Jesus came to be baptized in the nearby river Jordan. John is depicted as a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but this couldn't be further from the truth as we read clearly from the scriptures themselves;
John 1:35 The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A35+&version=NIV
And
John 3:25 And again at we read; “Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying”.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A25+&version=NIV
So John , quite apart from being a hermit "coming out of the wideness" as the gospels will have us all believe, John was, it appears, to be the leader of his own band of disciples.
John, sometime later tells us
John 1:33 “I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A33&version=NIV
This has to be a complete lie. The mother of Jesus was said to be cousin to Elizabeth the mother of the Baptist:
There was Mary the mother of Jesus, daughter of Heli (Luke 3:23), cousin of Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptizer (Luke 1:36).
And John the Baptist recognised Jesus when it is said that John "leaped in the womb" when Jesus' Mother Mary went to visit Elizabeth her cousin . Luke 1:40...... but he did not know him? .
Jesus then also appears seemingly out of nowhere also a fully grown man when we read this:
Matthew 3:13-17 (KJV)
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
This is supposed to convince the reader that John, a leader in his own right was being subservient to Jesus, the younger of the two.
But I urge the reader to read it carefully. This gospel states very clearly that Jesus went to the river for one reason only, "to be baptized by John."
John's clear response was to forbid Jesus from being baptized.
This is nothing short of a confrontation concerning whom should be anointing whom. In plain English Jesus is demanding that John anoint him, where as John is telling Jesus it is the other way around and that it is Jesus who should be anointing him. He finished this by practically saying ' and you have the nerve and audacity to come to me'! They were rivals from the start and from before Jesus was even born if we are expected to believe the gymnastic in the womb story.Luke 1:40
Anyway, for reasons unexplained, John it appears to cave in to Jesus' demand.
15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him".<<<< caved in.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
We have to remember that John was supposed to have been the forerunner to the Christ according to Christians , bringing the good news and foretelling the coming of the Messiah. But John didn't even recognize Jesus when he did appear even though he has told any that would listen, that:
27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”
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They just keep outdoing one another, don't they.
Why does all this mean? Why does Luke here contradiction John?
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
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I can't profess to know a lot about U.S. politics. But if it wasn't enough with all the hypocrisy during the impeachment there is now a U.S. Senator Chris Murphy CT;
complains that Trump carried out this "assassination"
"without any congressional authorization, of the second most powerful person in Iran, knowingly setting off a potential massive regional war"? Jan 2 2020
I don't know if Trump needed "congressional authorization" but this has to be the quickest 180° ever because only 2 days before this twat had this to say about the "impotent" state of America under Trump
6:36 AM - 31 Dec 2019. @ChrisMurphyCT "The attack on our embassy in Baghdad is horrifying but predictable.Trump has rendered America impotent in the Middle East. No one fears us, no one listens to us.America has been reduced to huddling in safe rooms, hoping the bad guys will go away.What a disgrace".
I have said before, in the eyes of Democrats, Trump will never ever do right. They are a bunch of self serving twats who know not their arse's from their fkn elbows.
God Bless America and God bless The Donald.
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Has this camera captured a miracle of spiritual proportions?
Michigan Fire Chief Glen Thorman says "his home security camera captured an angel floating over a truck".
And his pastor who is an "expert" on such things, confirms it. Ya don't saaayyyy.
Pastor Don Piper tells us that he once "died ", went to heaven and came back!!! " . and he has a book to sell.
This is his best quote : "it means we're absent from this body and present with the Lord. I wasn't planning to die that day, but I was ready". It appears then one can change their minds if they don't like heaven.
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It is believed by Muslims and others that Jesus didn't die on the cross. It has also been said that Jesus was substituted by Simon of Cyrene who seemed to have appeared out of nowhere and just happens to be "passing by" after a walk in the countryside;
Mark 15:21
A certain man from Cyrene, Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus, was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross.
It is only assumed that it was the Romans who pressed poor old Simon into carrying the burden of he Christ yet Jesus strangely had this to say about baring ones own cross.
Luke 14:27
Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be my disciple.
Anyway, the crucifixion; was it staged in order for him to "rise from the dead"?
It all seems a dam risky business if this was indeed the case, but not as far fetched as it may seem.
We have to start with the crucifixion party arriving at "Golgotha. Here Jesus is offered his first drink::
"And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink." Matthew 27:33-34 KJV.
This seems a curious drink to offer a man on the verge of death after an extremely prolonged "scourging". Surly water would have been the first and obvious option and who offered it to him isn't made clear either. But we have to keep in mind that by all accounts it was the Romans who had sent Jesus to his death, so why would they care to offer him anything at all.
Jesus then is hosted into position on the cross. There is then some mocking and challenges to save himself but Jesus is still alive and talking, giving instructions to one person to look after his mother whilst hanging there. But of all the things one would have expected a dying son of god to say one couldn't have ever expected to hear this ;!
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Yes, astonishingly here we have the son of god himself, doubting own his father, and his own god. It is as if he didn't have a clue as to what was happening yet he clearly spoke these words of doubt. Why? Hadn't he read all the script? Hadn't he just promised two robbers that they would "TRUELY" be with him in paradise?Luke 23:43 NIV
We then get to :
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
John 19 states that:
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar [ and hyssop], he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
We are to assume that to "give up the ghost" means dead? And before we go further lets look at Hyssop.
What are the medical uses of hyssop? As a medicinal herb, hyssop has soothing, expectorant, and cough suppressant properties. The plant also includes the chemicals Thujone and Phenol, which give it antiseptic properties. Its high concentrations of Thujone and chemicals that stimulate the central nervous system can provoke epileptic reactions when taken in high-enough doses.
Van Wyk, Ben-Erik; Wink, Michael (2004). Medicinal Plants of the World (1 ed.). Timber Press, Incorporated. p 177.
We can only assume that this sponge soaked with the sleep (if not stupor) inducing narcotic drug Hyssop and vinegar was administered on a pole by one of those said to be standing at the foot of the cross. The soldiers it is said were too busy - “casting lots and gambling of the royal robes - as it is written”- to be interested.
Then this happened;
John 19:32-33.KJV
“Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs”.
So Jesus was believed by these soldiers to be dead and just for good measure ;
John 19;34
34 one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Does a corpse bleed? Whatever happened? His “death” came about unexpectedly quick even to the wide eyed amazement of Pontius Pilate;
Mark15:44.KJV
“ And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead”.
And this is where this whole saga becomes even more suspicious.
Mathew 27:57-61.KJV
Out of nowhere;
“ When the evening was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre”.
Joseph of Aremathea is not mentioned at all to us before the crucifixion. Pilate simply hands over the supposed dead Jesus to Joseph Arimathaea without a single question. It is as if he knew him already. Pilate didn't ask what are you to this man? Are you family, Is he related to you, or how do you know him? Why hadn't any of Jesus' brothers claimed their dead relative. Or anyone of the Mary's who "gave to him of their substance"? Or the "risen Lazarus" who Jesus "loved" or his own mother.!!!?
We only know that Joseph Arimathaea was a rich member of the council of the Sanhedrin (judges) and a "secret disciple " of Jesus who "feared the Jews may wanted to kill him", and ..... who just happened to own the last know resting place of Jesus. Well, Well, Well.
So here we have a member of the council of Judges (Sanhedrin) who is rich and owns his own plot and his own hewn out tomb that appears to be enclosed in private grounds prepared and ready to accept a corpse, and not just any corpse, but the supposedly dead body of king Jesus who was condemned by the council of judges that Joseph of Aramethaea sat on and had sent before Pontius Pilate for sentencing. all very convenient to the inquiring mind, one would think.
There is also yet another very cautious character that it seems is afraid to even to be seen with Jesus and only came to him under the cover of darkness;
John 3:2-3
“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. The same came to Jesus by night.
And John’s gospel also tells us that he attended the burial the evening before;
John19:39.
“And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pound weight”
And notice what the glittery night owl Nicodemus the Pharisee brought with him. These were not simple cheap burial perfumes. Both have medicinal use especially myrrh that has properties that stops bleeding and neither of these drugs are known to have an embalming role of dead bodies. Both Luke and Mark touch on this matter by telling us that Mary Magdalene and Mary "Jesus' mother" brought spices and ointments with them to the tomb.
Let us just rewind some. Back to Joseph of Arimathaea and his request for the body of Jesus..
The original Greek text shows an important point being made. The word "body" is soma. In Greek this would denote a living body.
When Pilate agrees that Joseph can take the body down from the cross the word he uses for " body" is ptoma this means a corpse, a dead body. In other words, the Greek text of Mark's gospel is making it clear that while Joseph asked for the living (soma) body of Jesus, Pilate grants him what he believes to be the corpse, ptoma.
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And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: Genesis 3:22
So Saddam Hussein for example was god like then when he also ordered the unprovoked genocide gassing against Kurdish women , children and infants in Halabja?
Is this not similar to >>
Samuel 1: 15-3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
Yes he sounds like a good god doesn't ? A god that loves us; his own creation, including, "women, children and infants" .
“But of the cities of these people,which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”:Deu: 20:16.
Yes indeed. This god is very "good god" isn't he. he's a clever god too; getting these dupes to do his dirty work and turning them into killers..
But there again, we are created in their image and we did become one of them.
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It has taken some time - decades in fact- for just one world leader to recognize Christian persecution around the world.
Boris Johnson vows to defend persecuted Christians around the world .
"Boris Johnson has vowed to defend persecuted Christians around the world and their 'right to practise their faith'.
In his first Christmas message as Prime Minister, Mr Johnson said he wanted to remember those who were unable to celebrate the festival publicly or were jailed because of their religious beliefs.
He said his Government would 'stand in solidarity' with Christians everywhere".
In his first Christmas message as Prime Minister, Mr Johnson said he wanted to remember those who were unable to celebrate the festival publicly or were jailed because of their religious beliefs.
He said his Government would 'stand in solidarity' with Christians everywhere".
Since 11 September 2001 our world leaders have pulled out all the stops to convince us that "Islam is a religion of peace". Even the Sri Lanka terrorist bombing carried out by Muslim fanatics butchering over 290 Christian worshipers couldn't bring our world leaders to say the word ' Christian" but instead chose the term "Easter worshipers" there by once again showing their cowardice and spinelessness in the face of Islam while Christian slaughter and murder are now at "genocide levels".
Well done Boris Johnson British MP.
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Who Killed The "giant" Goliath ?
1 Samuel 17:50 King James Version (KJV)
50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
2 Samuel 21:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
I ask those interested to check these verses so to witness that I haven't made them up (as I am often accused by one fawning religious sycophant ) and that they are from the scripture.
This isn't the only shortfall in this story. For instance, one the one hand we are led to believe that a lowly shepherd boy the youngest of 7 killed a "giant". The "boy" it is said, while watching over his flock, whiled away his time playing sweet, beautiful soft music on a lyre, i.e. a bit of a mummies boy pansie, when in reality, he was already a warrior if the scriptures are to be believed.
Anyway, this story is slightly confusing and no doubt our biblical theist scholars will attempt to explain the question away by rewriting the pertinent verses if not the whole saga, and telling us all we got it all wrong and don't understand what we have been reading.
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....did she bears really tear " forty two (42) children to pieces for simple boisterous behaviour? And because someone willed it with a curse and " in the name of the lord" to boot !!!!
2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV)
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
How can anyone excuse this behaviour from a god that is supposed to love them? They were little children.
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This elusive verse has baffled me for a long time. Why can I not find it ?
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
" as the scripture has said"
Where do the scripture actually say " out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."?
What scripture says this? Is it from the Old Testament scripture or from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers?
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Of the many strange and anomalous verses and statements written in the New Testament scriptures, John 11:16 has to belong in the top 10 of mysterious verses.
John 11:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
The "him" which "Thomas, which is called Didymus" is referring to is a supposedly very "dead" Lazarus.
And before the usual protests and false accusations of "writing out of context"; here is the full text containing that enigmatic verse.
John 11:1-16 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
The story then continues with the "raising" of Lazarus. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+45&version=KJV
Christianity to my mind is all about life, giving life, sparing life, love of life, life everlasting and life after death . Jesus himself speaks only of life and living:
John 11: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. And indeed the very idea and purpose of Jesus "raising" the dead Lazarus, was to bring him back to life.
SO, The question of course has to be why would two fit and healthy people wish to "die" along with the supposedly very dead Lazarus!? Who it is said, had been dead, for "four days"!!!! (yes I know) .
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