They have seen an "angle" and captured it on film!!!!!

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#1
Stephen
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Has this camera captured a miracle of spiritual proportions?

Michigan Fire Chief Glen Thorman says "his home security camera captured an angel floating over a truck".

And his  pastor who is an "expert" on such things, confirms it.   Ya don't saaayyyy.



Pastor Don Piper tells us that he once "died ", went to heaven and came back!!! " . and he has a book to sell.

This is his best quote : "it means we're absent from this body and present with the Lord. I wasn't planning to die that day, but I was ready".  It appears then one can change their minds if they don't like heaven.


#2
SirAnonymous
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@Stephen
I'm not sure what the camera saw, presuming it isn't photoshop, but that first image looks like a backlit tree to me. I don't buy the pastor for a second. The Bible only tells us of one person who saw heaven and returned to earth, and he didn't go around telling everyone about it. He wouldn't even admit that it was him. Christians today seem so desperate to learn about heaven from any source that isn't the Bible. That doesn't seem right to me. People are fallible. Adults can easily make it up knowing they'll get plenty of money from the book they write about it. Children have overactive imaginations. There are a lot of people who fake miracles and supernatural experiences, such as Benny Hinn. While some are probably genuine, Christians need to be much more skeptical of them and stop grasping at straws.

#3
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The sheer amount of schlock that one finds in evangelical/protestant bookstores in no small way contributed to me becoming orthodox. 


I don't think angels can actually be caught on cameras, as they are bodiless beings.

Who knows? If this event draws those involved closer to God through repentance, it is a good thing. If not, it isn't beneficial to dwell ones mind on the miraculous, as it very easily can lead into spiritual delusion.

The kingdom of God is within, so the internal actions of the heart such as prayer, meditation, repentance and the like are more beneficial towards working out one's salvation than dwelling on external things such as the miraculous.



#4
oromagi
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I note the YouTube video is festooned with Trump ads, which is no coincidence. In fact, I consider the one a rather apt metaphor for the other: the people who look at a snapshot of a moth hovering in front of a security camera but choose to see a magical being with super powers reaffirming all their misbegotten presumptions and thickening their cocoons of numb ignorance are precisely Trump’s demographic. Enjoy. 

#5
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@oromagi
Hahaha have you read the comments? Everyone saying that the angel is holding a sword in the first pic? LMAO they must not have looked to close at the second pic where the 'sword' is clearly shown to be the roof of a house. It is right in front of their eyes!

If people only saw that the roof was not a sword then they would easily be able to see that the moth is not an angel. The people spreading the false narrative (the pastor and newswoman) don't even bother to hide this damning evidence. They proudly parade proof of their perjury right in front of the audience because they know people will see what they wish to see!

Now that is an apt metaphor.
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#6
Stephen
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The sheer amount of schlock that one finds in evangelical/protestant bookstores in no small way contributed to me becoming orthodox. 

Yes , we know the "schlock" that contributed to your becoming orthodox. It  is a world best selling book that tells of rotten stinking corpses coming to life after just three spoken words. John 11:43

The same "schlock"  that tells of 4,000 people being fed  with only 7 loaves and "a few small fish". Matthew 15: 34.

That same "schlock" was repeated but this time to feed more with less!  5,000 with only 5 loaves and 2 fish!!  Matthew 14:17.  Why the difference?

The same "schlock" that tells of finding money inside the mouth of a fish. One has to wonder that having already four coins in its mouth how did the fish manage take the baited hook too? Matthew 17:26-27

Then there is spitting to make a blind man see John 9.  One has to ask, why not just simply cure blindness instead of just curing  one blind single man? There must have been others around.

Curing a leper.Mark 1:40-45.  Again one has to ask, Why cure  only  one man of this deadly disease? Why not simply eradicate this deadly plague altogether from the face of the earth!? 

Yes Mopac,  this is the "schlock" that "contributed to you becoming orthodox" isn't it?  

You of all people should know that the word angle simply means messenger and has no supernatural or miraculous connotations what - so - ever. My post lady is a fkn angle she never fails to deliver my messages and always before 12.00 noon. 



If this event draws those involved closer to God through repentance, it is a good thing.

 Tell lies and deceive is what you mean. Yes any bullishite will do as long as it draws one into the moment. All kinds of promises and tricks can work.
 From -  Splinters of wood from the "true cross", Rusty nails used to crucify Jesus "found"! - to  the bones of John the Baptist being found.  And who ever can forget the biggest and most famous "relic" of all time, the blessed burial shroud of the Christ himself held in Turin. Yes this commission by the Italian Medici family has held the imaginations of millions of Christians captive since the day Leonardo created it. Christians (and the curious) from around the world  pay a fortune to see it, revere it.  

Current admission is €6 for adults and €3 for children 6-12. Kids 5 and under are free. 

I find it odd that this holy relic of holy relics is not held anywhere near Rome but over 689 Km  =  428 miles away in Turin. Didn't the Medici originate in Florence and Turin.Or was it both? who cares? it  still costs €6 for adults and €3 for children 6-12 on the gate. 






#7
BrotherDThomas
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@Mopac



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Mopac,

YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE: "I don't think angels can actually be caught on cameras, as they are bodiless beings."


In Yahweh sending the exact angel named Gabriel, over the other angels, to visit Mary, and then where he explicitly talked to her, then how was Mary sure that it was the angel Gabriel?  The angel Gabriel could have talked to her from heaven, or anywhere for that matter, but He was specifically dispatched by Yahweh to actually go to Nazareth!  Get it? Therefore, explain why Mary knew it was Gabriel over the many other angels that Yahweh has ordered to visit others, if Gabriel wasn't in a bodily form!



Within your quote above, is there any biblical proof that angels of Jesus, as the HebrewYahweh God incarnate, are bodiless, whereas the following passages promote that angels do have human bodily form!  What gives?


"Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his name," (Judges 13:6)


"The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried," (Luke 16:22)


"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, (Hebrews 12:22)


"Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people." (Revelation 14:6)


"I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” (Revelation 22: 8-9)


"And God sent the angel to Jerusalem to destroy it, but as he was about to destroy it, the Lord saw, and he relented from the calamity. And he said to the angel who was working destruction, “It is enough; now stay your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was standing by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite." (1 Chronicles 21:15)


"And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet." (John 20:12)


"Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded. And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven ..." (Revelation 10:1-6)


MOPAC, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE A SECRETARY TO KEEP TRACK OF YOUR COMPLETE BIBLICAL IGNORANCE!



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#8
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@BrotherDThomas
I think that you will find that angels and the like are the fantasy bits of the mythology.
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#9
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I wonder if anyone will ever, ever believe that a monster moth , three quarters the size on a pickup truck, would have ever been captured on camera? 



#10
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@Stephen
@BrotherDThomas
You of all people should know that the word angle simply means messenger and has no supernatural or miraculous connotations what - so - ever

You may notice that some icons of St John the forerunner and baptist have him depicted with "angel wings". Yet, John was a human being. It is for the reason you say, the Greek word for angel means messenger.

That said, we certainly believe in bodiless powers, as does anyone with a modicum of discernment. In this age of wifi, there is no good reason to deny the existence of bodiless powers. After all, modern science has lifted the veil on some of these forces.






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#11
Stephen
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@Mopac
You of all people should know that the word angle simply means messenger and has no supernatural or miraculous connotations what - so - ever

You may notice that some icons of St John the forerunner and baptist have him depicted with "angel wings".

So what? It  proves nothing and simply debunks "make no graven images" , does it not. Exodus 20:4 But you Christians adorn all of your places of worship with thousands of these taboo icons and images paid for by the " poor". Marvelous how you bend the rules when it suits you. 


Yet, John was a human being.
And? So what!  Moses is depicted with horns, does this make him a devil or a Satan? Although we know he too was only human.


That said, we certainly believe in bodiless powers,
Yes and so does anyone with the slightest bit of commonsense. Electric, gas, steam and,dynamite for instance are all "bodyless" and all can move mountains. But the ones that you are trying to conflate these powers  with do not even exist, only in the mind of the believer.

Did you miss post 6 above.




 In this age of wifi, there is no good reason to deny the existence of bodiless powers. 
Stop being so silly. The two have nothing in common. 

After all, modern science has lifted the veil on some of these forces.

It has and non of them have anything to do with the supernatural. or the hand of god.

IT'S A FKN MOTH!!!!!!! FFS!!!!!!






#12
Mopac
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@Stephen
So what? It  proves nothing and simply debunks "make no graven images" , does it not. Exodus 20:4 But you Christians adorn all of your places of worship with thousands of these taboo icons and images paid for by the " poor". Marvelous how you bend the rules when it suits you. 



You, being blinded by your hatred missed the point.
If your iconoclastic interpretation is correct, how do you explain the seprent Moses lifted up in the wilderness? How do you explain the ark of the covenant and the statues of cherubim on it? This was Moses himself.
How do you explain Solomon's temple being adorned with images?

These questions are rhetorical, be ause the true answer is that your iconoclastic interpretation does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture. The 7th ecumenical council rightly declared iconoclasm a heresy.

And? So what!  Moses is depicted with horns, does this make him a devil or a Satan? Although we know he too was only human.


Orthodox icons of Moses do not have horns. 


#13
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@Mopac
I think that you will actually find that an "angle" is the space between two intersecting lines.
#14
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@Mopac
how do you explain the seprent Moses lifted up in the wilderness? How do you explain the ark of the covenant and the statues of cherubim on it? This was Moses himself.
How do you explain Solomon's temple being adorned with images?
It's all fiction, explaining anything in your book is the same as explaining anything in Harry Potter, it's just fiction.

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Stephen
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@Mopac
So what? It  proves nothing and simply debunks "make no graven images" , does it not. Exodus 20:4 But you Christians adorn all of your places of worship with thousands of these taboo icons and images paid for by the " poor". Marvelous how you bend the rules when it suits you. 



You, being blinded by your hatred missed the point.

Hatred!!!? What hatred. I don't hate you, or Christians per sey. My problem is with the scriptures and how it has been taught for over 2,000 years. 

If your iconoclastic interpretation is correct, how do you explain the seprent Moses lifted up in the wilderness?

I made a thread on this very  subject   sometime ago. And that above is a above clear contradiction is it not. One minute the lord is banning all graven images and then telling Moses to create a graven image. YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT UP!!!!! 

Here have a look, you were among this first to reply, saying at post 3 "I myself have always found this very puzzling. I must admit," https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/475/you-shall-not-make-for-yourself-an-image%C2%A0in-the-form-of-anything


How do you explain the ark of the covenant and the statues of cherubim on it?

Exactly my point as mentioned in the link above.  it is not for me to explain these biblical contradictions. I simply point them out and you should explain them. That is to say, NOT explain them away.

How do you explain Solomon's temple being adorned with images?

I don't have to, but you  do. 

These questions are rhetorical, be ause the true answer is that your iconoclastic interpretation does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture.

IT'S A FKN MOTH!!!!

And? So what!  Moses is depicted with horns, does this make him a devil or a Satan? Although we know he too was only human.


Orthodox icons of Moses do not have horns. 

But with horns he is depicted all the same. And it does not make him Satan or the devil, does it. And it is housed in a church isn't it?




#16
Mopac
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@Stephen
You don't know how scripture has been taught for 2,000 years, because you don't really respect the subject matter.
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#17
Stephen
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You don't know how scripture has been taught for 2,000 years, because you don't really respect the subject matter.

Itsa fkn moth. ffs!!it is not an "angel" sent from god. 


You don't know how scripture has been taught for 2,000 years,

Behave yourself. I know these scriptures have been expunged and edited and taught wrong. There are no miracles or any pacifist leaders. just chaos and turmoil and race for power.  Grow up an get over it. Dead is dead and it is final.
#18
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@Mopac


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YOUR REVEALING AND PRETZEL TURNING QUOTE: "You may notice that some icons of St John the forerunner and baptist have him depicted with "angel wings". Yet, John was a human being. It is for the reason you say, the Greek word for angel means messenger."


Uh, okay, then in the following passages once again, the words of Jesus show these "messengers" have human qualities that are not bodiless because of the actual acts performed with them as shown below. I am sure you are the last pseudo-christian to call Jesus' direct words below as LIES!  Yes? Make the correct answer this time, and don't continually hide behind Satan again!!!


"Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his name," (Judges 13:6)


"The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried," (Luke 16:22)


"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, (Hebrews 12:22)


"Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people." (Revelation 14:6)


"I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” (Revelation 22: 8-9)


"And God sent the angel to Jerusalem to destroy it, but as he was about to destroy it, the Lord saw, and he relented from the calamity. And he said to the angel who was working destruction, “It is enough; now stay your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was standing by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite." (1 Chronicles 21:15)


"And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet." (John 20:12)


"Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land, and called out with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. When he called out, the seven thunders sounded. And when the seven thunders had sounded, I was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said, and do not write it down.” And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven ..." (Revelation 10:1-6)



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20 days later

#19
ethang5
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@Stephen
So what?
Lol. That is your defense?

Hee hee!