Stephen

Who were Jesus' secret cabal?

Jesus simply must have had a cabal outside of his disciples and outside of his inner chosen 12 of Galilean zealots . But who was they?  

We know that at one of his three trials that Jesus claimed to have "never  have I said nor done anything in secret".

But the bible itself disproves this outright.

Been watching quite a lot about the American election and I just cannot get over how  many (not all)  of these " celebrities" believe in their own self importance.

I mean, who the fk in their right mind would actually take seriously anything these self obsessed papered multi millionaires have to say.... about anything?

Do they actually believe that anyone would really support  and act on the political views and opinions of people that pretend to be someone else... for a living  ? And of people that use and rely on words written by someone else to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table?

 I have to wonder how these self important nob-heads would get on if they were to one day wake up  in the real world of struggle, strife and living on the bread-line?

Six police officers and the priest are believed to have died in the attacks, with the attackers slit the throat of a respected priest.
According to local media, the attacks are thought to be terror related and took place at a synagogue and an Orthodox church in Derbent, followed by an attack at a police post in Makhachkala.
Two attackers have been shot dead, Russia's interior ministry has reported.
Authorities have now said that at least 12 people were injured during the series of attacks.
Local news agencies said gunfire had been exchanged in the centre of Makhachkala, a region of coastline on the Caspian Sea.

Police and mental health worker visit orthodox Christian for saying to his priest " Christians must take a stand".  

England has gone down the shit pan.

It was only a few years ago that is was fkn snow that "offended" Allah

And it seems, that the Aussie Christians are not prepared to "turn the other cheek". gud on ya cobbers.

AND no doubt it will be broadcast by all MSM world wide that the Bishop's attacker will be "suffering from mental issues" <<< this being the new apologetics coming from all Western leaders.  Why can they not just face the facts, that Islam is a thread to all Western societies and has been since the day Salman Rushdie wrote a novel.?

The only thing that shocks me these days is that nothing else shocks me.

Priest refused to open the door to emergency services that were interrupting his homosexual orgy.

"The priest was sentenced for sexual offences, the supply of drugs and failing to provide assistance to a person in danger of loss of life or serious bodily harm".

So much sexual deviance among the clergy, yet they have the brass balls to call all atheists "drug addled kiddie fiddlers".... well, I know at least  one of them does.

......Something He Must Have Known Was A Failure?

It is Generally accepted that Luke's Gospel was written AD 80–110.  But whichever date is acceptable it stands to reason that Luke wrote his account after the crucifixion of Jesus. So why did he leave out the parts where none of the predictions concerning Jesus' came to fruition?

here  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10670-self-defense-or-turning-the-other-cheek?page=1&post_number=25

First off the BIBLE doesn't say the woman was "a gentile". As claimed by the Reverend. In the link below, it specifically states that she was a Canaanite. There is only one single bible of all the English bibles written that refers to her a  gentile. https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-22.htm

Regardless,

This little story lasting only  8 short verses in Matthew 15:22-28 is titled.

Jesus was a wanted man both by Rome and the Jewish authorities and word had spread throughout Israel that the Messiah had indeed arrived.. some believed it while others didn't, regardless he and his followers were on the hit list as the BIBLE in many places clearly attests to.

So then we have this Canaanite woman appearing out of nowhere making a proper song and dance, begging on her knees and crying out to Jesus- a wanted man -"“Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me!", and all in broad daylight and in earshot of all authorities! 

What was the response of Jesus ? It was to try to ignore her. (See Matthew 15:23 above) but she kept "crying out" aloud.

And the disciples that were accompanying him, what was their response?

Well to put this into plain modern English it was, shall we tell her to Fk off  before she blows our anonymity and gets us all the fk arrested!

Jesus then spoke these now famous words that are easy for anyone to understand, even dulcet bible dunces such as our resident Pastor and Chaplain, but the never mention it for obvious fkn reasons. 

 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel". In other words - I am not here for this riff-raff scum, I am here for only gods chosen and treasured people, the lost sheep of ISRAEL!

 But of course the riff -raff scum woman wasn't giving up as she persisted in begged the Messiah seed and son of David to do something about her "Demon possessed" daughter.  (See Matthew 15:25)

But again, what was the response to the scummy riff-raff woman?

Well it was this lovely compliment;

"scammed"?  You have got to be kidding me!

"We may have been scammed by asylum seekers, admits Church of England"

NEVER!!!! YA  DON'T SAY, JUDGE!?

Demands for clampdown as 40 Bibby Stockholm asylum seekers 'converting to Christianity'

"Tory MP Tim Loughton, who is a member of the home affairs committee, raised concerns that Christian conversion had become a scam".

REALLY!! TIM!! REALLY!!? 

These fkn Pastors and Priests.  So devout, so sincere, so full of shite. 

Of course CNN put their own bullshit spin on it suggesting this was out of "desperation" as if it wasn't usual the practice for Muslims of Islamic countries to sell their female children but were being "forced" to do this.  I wonder then did CNN find any male children that were sold out of "desperation"?

A report in The News International said, "From January 2017 to April 2018, Edhi foundation and Chhipa Welfare organisation have found 345 such new born babies dumped in garbage in Karachi only and 99 percent of them were girls."

Family planning or barbarism?

Life is just cheap to some so called  "civilisations".  

I find it difficult to to feel sorry for her, but I do.

GENOCIDE: Muslims Slaughter Another 160 Christians Preparing for Church Christmas Programs in Nigeria

Fury as massacre of almost 200 Christians is partially blamed on climate change

10 Christians, including toddler, killed by Islamic extremists in Uganda

 After reading all of this thread> Author:n8nrgim - it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife

 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7386-it-is-irrational-to-argue-that-theres-no-evidence-for-the-afterlife?page=1

I went to YouTube and typed in - NDE and put it on auto scroll.  I stopped it at random and watched then watched this.

I don't want to spoil the ending so take just 20 min to watch it until  then end.

The Pope invites a busload of trannies to the Vatican

What ever could he have to say to them. 

We can be sure it won't be this.

“A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.  Deuteronomy 22:5

Freelance journalists may have been embedded with Hamas on Oct. 7

it doesn't surprise nor shock me one little bit.

Nigel Farage. GB News

This is another wanker that spent years labelling the likes of me: a racist islamophobe. 

And like that other wanker Piers Morgan Talk TV, he too is playing catch-up. But maybe the penny has finally dropped.....for Farage at least.

Are we heading to some form of religious war?

Insurrection? .

Yes, insurrection against Rome. What  bible evidence is there?

The major clue comes from the  Mark 15:7 KJV, where biblically the New Testament introduces briefly a rebel by the name of Barabbas - Son of the father. This name could also indicate that Barabbas was the son of a Jewish leader. More interesting is the NIV biblical fact that this rebel's first name we are told is also - Jesus.

I am told often enough times by the clergy and religious laymen and other theist here that it is a fact that there is difference between evidence and proof  and that evidence and proof are not the same thing, which is true of course.

Speaking for myself, I have never claimed to have been able to "prove" a single one of my "assertions" or any conclusions that I may have reached with  only the scant "evidence" available to me from the four Gospels, which ultimately ends with an hypothetical, an idea or simply an educated  guess when it comes to the four gospels and the life and times of Christ and his very short ministry.  

 It appears at times that the theist will throw out the accusation of "you are unable to prove anything that you have concluded". To which my answer is, 'yes, you are correct. I can no more prove that Jesus even existed than you can'. So the question of proof here is beside the point.

Take for instance the claim that Jesus was king of the Jews, while all the time only assuming Jesus existed, the only available  evidence from the four gospels points to the conclusion that he was but it is not proof. Jesus himself never claims to be  king at all. All claims of kingship appear to come from elsewhere, including from his enemies:  Pilate and the head board of the cross for instance, and Herod's "fear". The wise men in search of he that was "born King of the Jews" and their royal gifts. And from this scant evidence Christians world wide have themselves asserted that the title "King of the Jews" is an established fact. 

 So we see that is all the researcher has at his disposal is evidence and not proof and evidence can only suggest greater on less possibilities and plausibility.

One can only draw on, assess, survey, interpret it and draw a  conclusion i.e. such as a sequence of events is more likely to have happened than others. And from there the matter should  becomes one of commons sense.

 That other accusation of  "speculation", something I also admit to,  goes towards creating the hypotheses. Indeed a hypothesis rest on speculation.

Did Jesus and or his disciples have a hand in John the Baptists death? Hypothetically it is a plausible possibility that they may have going by the evidence.

  Of the 83,680 words that are in the four gospels Jesus is said to have spoken only less than a third which are not a lot considering those words can be read in a matter of hours. And neither is it a lot of evidence either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The discrepancies and contradictions in the New Testament are renown, I have covered a few myself so I won't cover them here.

 So how did  the New Testament , a book that is believed by devote Christians  to be unimpugnable get so poorly slammed and glued together in the way it has come down to us? Keeping in mind that the gospel writers impugn each other?

   Given these multiple discrepancies and contradictions the four gospels can only be accepted as highly questionable and in no way as definitive.

 If they are the "words of god" they have been glossed, edited, revised, liberally censored and rewritten by human hand, just as many 21st century believers on this forum often attempt to do.

   It has to be seriously remembered that that the Bible- Old and New Testaments are simply a collection of works and arbitrary ones at that. The bible could have included many more works than it has in the state it has come down to us. And it also has to be remembered that many of these missing works are considered to have been ' lost' , but it is more the case they were deliberately excluded and some destroyed.

 It was  in A.D. 367 that the Bishop  of Alexandria was said to have compiled a list of works that were to be included in the New Testament. This list was then given formal consent by the Church Council of Hippo in 393 and was then again by the Council of Carthage 5 years later. It was at these councils a selection was agreed on. Certain works made it in while others didn't leavening us with what we now have what we today call the NT while other works were ignored or  as mentioned, simply destroyed.

  It has to be asked , how could such a selection process possibly be regarded as definitive let alone "divinely inspired"? 

 Who was to say and by what authority did a bunch of Pastors, Priests and other members of the clergy infallibly decide that only certain books " belonged" in the bible while others did not?

 

 I do hope that someone here being  more qualified than myself can answer these question considering they have had almost 2000 years to iron then out. 

Captured on dash cams 

 It is horrific!

The Idea of Original Sin is believed by Christians to have come about thousands of years ago in the Garden of Eden located in Mesopotamia( modern-day Iraq) by, we are told, a woman that had a conversation with a "serpent".

  God by all accounts had warned her husband to- be, Adam not to eat from the all knowing tree of good and evil or he would die the same day.  But it turns out that Eve after a conversation with a serpent  took its advice and decided to have a good ole' chomp of its fruit regardless. It has to be noted though, that Eve was never given this warning against the tree; he had warned only the Adam and at a time before Eve was even created.  But this didn't stop the Church  placing all the blame for original sin on the woman; Eve, and as a result all those "born of woman" are sinful, i.e. we have all inherited sin; Eve was now a temptress and seducer in the eyes of the Church and all done no doubt to establish male superiority over the woman and the so the women is informed that for encouraging the Adam and casting her influences upon him against god will , " your husband will rule over you".

At this point it is only the Adam that is exiled "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden". And it is not until later in the story we discover that Eve followed him. And they dwelt in the land of Elda.

  We then hear of a secondary problem for the gods. It was another tree, the Tree of Life and  it appears that this problematic tree was also the cause of the Adams expulsion "lest he put forth his hand and eat and live forever and be like us" although he hadn't touched this tree he was deprived of any of its benefit regardless.

  It is difficult to understand the context of this whole saga, where the serpent has come from. Because god had created all the animals before he created the Adam yet not a single word about the creation of a serpent with the power to oppose him. Buy all accounts god had looked over his creation and "saw that it was good". But without any explanation a serpent  with the  human voice appears a totally independent creature over which god has no control!?

 As I have wrote about in another thread - https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9943-the-myth-of-satan?page=1&post_number=1 - the Church dogma on the serpent /satan anomaly but doesn't appear anywhere in Genesis.

It wasn't until the church Father, St Augustine of Hippo of North Africa had pronounced in the 4th century that because Eve had enchanted and enticed  her husband to eat from the forbidden tree that he pronounced the doctrine of "Original Sin" which insists to this very day. It maintains that owning to the transgression of Eve "mother of all living" all people are born is sin simply by virtue of having mothers!.

 Of course, as per usual, it must have slipped the minds of the early Church Bishops that this would have included, Jesus.

 

The devil  by many accounts is believed by Christians  to be a master of "trickery" and one would suppose it natural enough for the Church to have us all believe that magic is the work of the devil.

 Yet apart from the well know so called miracles familiar to  the Jesus of the gospels; exorcism, laying on of hand and showing of faith, Marks gospel states that Jesus ordained his own disciples with the same power to  be  able to do likewise such as heal the sick 'cast out devils, demons and unclean spirits', as he himself had done.

  But from the Christian perspective they are presented to us as miracles, but when performed by those of another faith or religion or no religion at all they are considered by the Church to be unacceptable magic or witchcraft or sorcery. Although, the table was once seemed to have been turned on Jesus when the temple authorities accused him of using or appropriating the use of a devilish spirit to heal the sick.

 The difference in attitude obviously lies in the recognized legitimacy of the act in accordance with different standpoint and religious belief. If a Christian Pastor or Priest performs a healing, it is without question said to have been done via the help of god. But if a heretic achieves the same result, it is said to be magic and deemed to be the work of the devil with the church proclaiming "by the glory of god" while the heretic stands accused of it being the work of the devil and an abomination.

 So it is then that those that practice "magic" without sanction from the Church were identified as sorcerers that attracted and used evil spirits with the use of rituals and incantations that they were to become servants of devils, demons and evils spirts. While the Church have also been for millennia using  exorcism, Mass readings, sprinkling of "holy water" beads,  knotted rope and other sorts of sacraments and rituals including payers..

  One good example  and starting point in investigating these double standards can be found reasonably early in the Bible.

Its the story of Aaron and his magic rod and those staffs of the priests of Pharaoh that the Bible refer to as sorcerers, and  magicians. the story can be found in Exodus.

 

Is it just an unfounded assertion of Christians and the Church  that John the Baptist was a  prophet?  

 Is there anything at all in scripture that suggest he was a Prophet?   . In fact, if the story of John is to be at all believed, even in part, we can read that John himself had flat out denied he was a Prophet. Why would he make his denial if there was no truth to it?

Didn't John the Baptist know he was a prophet? 

 

Palestinians applied Quran when they invaded Israel!

"She is now a slave. The man who captured her is her master. He can do whatever he pleased with her . This is our religion. He is allowed to sell her at the cheapest price in the slave market, "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMWMk8LyvcI 

So;

Why has the Christian Church filled our minds of such  fearful satanic dogma and the same said Church has attached to the incident with Eve and the serpent?

  Nowhere in the Genesis account is there any mention, direct or indirect of Satan's involvement but it hasn't stopped -indeed it has become common practice - for the Church to portray the Eden serpent as a representative of Satan or Satan himself as in Revelation 12:9.

From my own understanding, in the Hebrew bible as in  the conventional or mainstream Judaism to this day Satan never appears as Western Christendom has come to know him. The Christian perception of Satan is that of an evil imperialist whose hoards of demons wages war on god and humankind,  but this Satan character was an invention of the post -Jesus era that has absolutely no more historic value than anything written by Bram Stoker and his Gothic  fictional character, count Dracula.

 Though rarely mentioned in the Old Testament 'satans' are portrayed as obedient underling servants or sons of gods (the bene ha - elohim) who's duty it is to perform specific tasks or strategic obstruction. Whenever a  bene ha - elohim satan appears in the Old Testament he is seen as a fully signed up member of the heavenly court- one that carries out god's more aggressive dictates and is also know as an obstructer and accuser.

So in this regard, why is it that the Christian Church felt it necessary to wrap around an emissary of god a myth that is only worthy of a gothic novel that has no historicity to it whatsoever?

  

Ethnic Cleansing 'Happening Right Now' as Armenians Forced from Christian Homeland.

More than 100,000 Armenian Christians are fleeing their homes in Nagorno-Karabakh, desperate to escape the arrival of the Azerbaijani[Muslim] army.

The MSNBC anchor who laughed at white genocide.

EFF leader Julius Malema now denies singing this as he stirred up and incited a stadium full of Black South Africans to go out and murder white farmers.

  Not a mention on Mainstream Media then or .....

.......or now.

Brutal butchering of White famers continues

runner, 49, wins women's 400m bronze medal at the World Para Athletics Championships in Paris

.......they haven't gone away.

"ISIS terrorists plotting 'big attack' on UK soil as spies uncover chilling plans.

 To call these perverts out just months ago would have branded me a bigot , a homophobe and anti transsexual.

Well hear from the horses mouth:

Amazes me that people have fell for the old three card of these perverts purposefully conflating a drag act for entertainment with perverted transsexuals who intend children harm.

"We have tried warning the West.... we can't help you anymore"

‘No F**king Way!’ – British Intel Mocked FBI’s Flimsy Russia Collusion ‘Evidence’ Against Donald Trump.

Nashville police to release manifesto in Christian school shooting massacre.

Covenant School shooter Audrey Elizabeth Hale was a 28-year-old trans artist who once attended the school and had begun identifying as male.

Nashville police confirmed they will release a manifesto they recovered from the car of Covenant School shooter Audrey Elizabeth Hale, a 28-year-old transgender former student who they say gunned down three 9-year-olds and three adults last month.
"The investigation has progressed to the point where the Covenant shooter’s writings are now being reviewed for public release," the Metro Nashville Police Department told Fox News Digital. "This process is currently underway."
A specific time frame for the release was not yet available, a police spokeswoman said.

I have a feeling it will look something like this like this:

RedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedactedRedacted......

Trans runner insists she hasn't 'cheated' after competing in female category for London Marathon.

Glenique Frank finished the prestigious race ahead of nearly 14,000 women in the female category, sparking questions as to how she was allowed to compete in the first place.

CAIRO — An Egyptian lawyer is suing Netflix over its new series “Queen Cleopatra” for depicting the historical figure from ancient Egypt as a Black woman, and having a Black actress, Adele James, perform the title role.....

Egypt's former Antiquities Minister Zahi Hawass stressed that the series is misrepresenting facts of ancient Egyptian history.
“Cleopatra was Greek and she was similar to the queens and princesses of Macedonia who were blond, not black,” he told Al-Monitor. “If we look at the massive figure of Cleopatra and her son [from] Julius Caesar, Caesarion, on the south wall of the Temple of Hathor in Dendera and her coins, there's no evidence that she was Black.”
“During the 25th Dynasty, the Kush Kingdom ruled Egypt and [the kings of Kush] were Black pharaohs but they had nothing to do with ancient Egyptian civilization,” Hawass added.

The series  is  produced and narrated by Jada (GI JAYNE) Pinkett Smith

When British broadcaster Channel 5 announced the cast of its “Anne Boleyn” miniseries last October, the show’s eponymous star—Black actress Jodie Turner-Smith—faced immediate backlash from critics who objected to a woman of color portraying the white Tudor queen.

Here's an idea!  Lets have Three foot six  English actor Warwick Davis 

play Six foot five Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt  https://notednames.com/Sports-Persons/Athlete/Usain-Bolt-Birthday-Real-Name-Age-Weight-Height/

"The pelvis is the only bone that is gender specific"😮

Smitten the skeleton

1:45.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_HZwp-LvuA

 I suppose this will send the alphabet brigade into a fkn tails spin.

Transgender female golfer Breanna Gill wins women's tournament in Australia Gill, a biological male, won Australian Women's Classic after forcing playoff'

Just can't keep a good "girl" down, can ya?

When's this shite going to end?

Wrong forum.

 

Transexual pastor compares treatment of 'marginalized' Nashville shooter to Jesus being crucified.

"Instead of focusing on ways this could've been prevented, such as gun control, a significant number of people have turned their attention to the shooter's identity," the pastor lamented"........." The pastor goes on to deride "allies" who abandon and "betray" transgender persons, like Jesus's disciples who fled when he was arrested"...The liberal pastor goes on to compare the Pharisees' treatment of Jesus to politicians who make laws against drag shows and transgender players in sports.

The church has lost it's mind.

I have always found it absolutely amazing  how far  the Christian apologist will go to justify wicked acts performed by their god. Even to go as far as to change the definition and whole meaning of a word used in the bible. They do this not realising that they throw whole bible verses completely out of context. They apply this deceitful practice being of the belief that their new definition and new meaning has given them an escape from what are usually unescapable theological dilemma.

 In my own personal experience in the time I have been here, I have witnessed words such a "touch" redefined as "light". I have seen the word "curse" redefined as "murder"!  And I have even had that old weary chestnut throw at me that - "to understand the bible one has to know and have studied ancient Hebrew or Greek languages".

 These are not very well thought out responses or excuses for  these biblical dilemmas.  In fact when these deceitful practices are applied by the apologist they do not seem to have realised that (1) in the case of individual words the context goes flying out of the window (2) in the case of ancient languages they simply render ALL bibles written in English pointless, void and redundant. This is what happens when Christian apologist rush to the defend the indefensible wicked deeds performed by god..

 

 This deceitful practice has happened on this very forum on a number of occasions, with the most recent being here in this exchange between two members;

 Apart from that being such  a obvious leading question submitted by Melcharaz the response you will see is nothing short of pathetic not to mention childlike and which just happens to be defining "fear" and not "honour or reverence". This is what results in rushing to excuse the inexcusable and  to defend the indefensible.

Also, one should take note David AZ doesn't give a reason or a source for his "biblical reference" or definition of what he only "thinks" the bible means by the word "fear".

So lets look at this word "fear" and put DavidAZ's  definition to the test and see if he maybe  correct simply by taking just a few other verses from the bible that contain the word "fear".

Well that doesn't seem to be anything to do with "honor or reverence".  So lets try DavidAZ's definition:

" I will put reverence and honor in their hearts". 

Again I fail to notice how this equates with either of the words "honor or reverence".  So lets try DavidAZ's definition:

"This do, and live: for I fear God"..

FEAR,
 A painful emotion or passion excited by an expectation of evil, or the apprehension of impending danger. Fear expresses less apprehension than dread, and dread less than terror and fright. The force of this passion, beginning with the most moderate degree, may be thus expressed, fear, dread, terror, fright. Fear is accompanied with a desire to avoid or ward off the expected evil. Fear is an uneasiness of mind, upon the thought of future evil likely to befall us.

The devastation that over mass immigration has caused for the little town and Villages the little country of Ireland. 

This is the video that the German state and the media DON'T want you to see.The 12-year-old white girl who was MURDERED in Germany was stabbed 32 times after being bullied, humiliated and having her coat and warm clothes removed from her.As you can see, this is a multi-racial gang that contains several migrant girls. No wonder the LYING MEDIA are so desperate to hide the truth!The politicians who have created this 'diverse', 'progressive' and 'tolerant' society have blood all over their hands.

Skipper_Sr requested that I start this thread. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9055-a-series-of-biblical-debates?page=2&post_number=31

God,  through his messenger said to be Gabriel promised this to the Virgin Mary who it is said gave birth to his son, the Messiah Jesus:

saying;