Stephen

I had my memory jogged on another thread concerning what Christians call; "The Lord's Prayer". I made the comment that it "Sounds to me very much like a poem from the Egyptian Book of the Dead".

 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9056-how-to-read-the-bible-guide-for-beginners?page=1&post_number=3

In the New Testament;

"his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taughthis disciples”. Luke 11:1-4

And Jesus goes on to say:

Just as Moses had changed  the Egyptian confession in the negative known as a prayer (spell) to Ani  from   “I have not”, to laws and dictates  and reproduced them as commandments of “you shall not” , so too it appears that Jesus did similar with the prayer known to Christians as  The Lord's Prayer. And it appears to be part of the same spell offered to the Egyptian scribe Ani. Spell 125.  The Lords Prayer ends with  the invocation Amen.Matthew 6:13<<<< I wonder of Christians understand that?

 

Let's hope Sleepy 'sniffin' Joe can keep his composure as Trump did during the Iranian attacks on ships in the gulf.

The Birth of Moses begins in Exodus 2:

 "And a man of the house of Levi went and took as wife a daughter of Levi.  So the woman conceived and bore a son. And when she saw that he was a beautiful child, she hid him three months.  But when she could no longer hide him, she took an ark of bulrushes for him, daubed it with asphalt and pitch, put the child in it, and laid it in the reeds by the river’s bank.  And his sister stood afar off, to know what would be done to him".

 We are then informed that Pharaoh's daughter went to bathe in the crocodile infested river Nile where she happened upon the baby Law Giver.

Where will this end?  Someone will die over this nonsense.

TEENAGERS SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL IN UK FOR ‘MISHANDLING’ A COPY OF THE KORAN

Edit:

Seems I spoke too soon

The man accused of murdering Glasgow shopkeeper Asad Shah has issued a statement saying he carried out the killing because he believed Mr Shah had "disrespected" Islam.

Aired on GB News last night. 8:PM 11/02/2023

[Pakistani] Grooming Gangs: Britain's Shame - YouTube

No one in officialdom has ever been held to account and it is still going on today.

"we have been approached by 60 victims in the last three days".  Maggie Oliver ex Detective Constable with the Greater Manchester Police.

At least one ex police officer isn't afraid to call out the perpetrators for what they are.

 No doubt the  Office of Communications, a regulatory body supervising the communications industry (Ofcom) will be on the case in a flash with charges of  "racism" and "Islamophobia".

'Say it loud say it clear, illegal immigrants are welcome here'.

This course if free to the stupid and brain dead.

"I was saved by Jesus"

Ex-Witch Warns Witchcraft Expanding - Says Hollywood is 'Releasing Spells Over the Viewers' !! She Watched "The Craft" Movie And Became A Witch, Then Became A Christian Minister!!

The charity of generous tax paying Americans is just isn't good enough.

If it's any consolation to my American friends across the water, we here in England are having our own benevolence thrown back in our faces too. 

 What kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation and excitement to tell her cousin the good news that she was going to have a baby from god that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 

And what kind of Mother would lose her holy god- given charge for four whole days and didn't even notice him missing at all for the first  whole day?

The New Testament tells us that in the time of his ministry Jesus is said to have raised only three people from the "dead".  The child mortality rate must have been high in 1st century Palestine so why only three? 

If we are to take the gospels in order as presented in the New Testament, the first recorded instance come in the gospel of Mark 5:35-43 NIV

In this version  a Pharisee named Jairus in Galilee a synagogue leader's daughter has "died" and said to be only 12 years old. Jesus is said to have simply  took her hand , told her to "get up" and she was alive again.

In Luke's gospel it is a Galilean widow  living in Nain. Her son that was ready for burial. Jesus simply told  him to "get up" too and he was alive again. Luke 7:11-15.

Then in John's gospel we are told of Lazarus of Bethany in Galilee and a friend of Jesus had died. He was simply told by Jesus to "come out" of his tomb after being "dead" for 4 days. John 11:1-44

So what was so special (if anything) about these three particular "corpses" that they were important  to be raised from the"dead"?

What is it with Pastors and priests that they have to stoop so low to attract worshipers. Is it any wonder the Pews are empty?

And while they are busy poncing and mincing around, Zelensky is doing this to Christians,

Matthew 10:2

Was it a matter of days, weeks or a year?

The only thing we can be certain of is that at least 5 were gathered within 2 days.

The Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Biblical Hebrew: תּוֹרָה‎ Tōrā, "Instruction", "Teaching" or "Law") is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

These 5 books are believed to contain all the rules, regulations, laws and statutes of god. So why is it that these laws are considered to be " shit" by  some authors of the New Testament ?

I would be grateful for any answers.

Has anyone ever considered the New Testament story of the so called " certain false witnesses"?

After his arrest Jesus , it is written, was taken first to the home of Annas where he was slapped around and spat on then turned over to someone in a higher authority, Caiaphas.   But they had a problem. Under Mosaic law and the book of Deuteronomy, they had to have two witnesses to whatever the crime it was Jesus is alleged to have committed.

Then immediately, this happens:

Among the many other questions that the story of Jesus' arrest and trial raises, one has to ask,  why are these "certain" star witnesses never directly named?

The show trial has begun in the prosecution of Darrell Brooks, Jr., who viciously mowed down onlookers with his SUV at the Waukesha, WI Christmas parade last winter.
After three days, the trial has been nothing short of a circus, which seems to be Brooks’s (who is representing himself) strategy.

 I do hope this poor mentally i'll  man doesn't die.......of Covid 19

I have been saying for years what this calm an collected lady has to say concerning "reparations". It is the first time I personally have seen anyone state these facts live on air.

Hilary Fordwich. Royal Commentator.

Muhammad Khan, 28, has been charged after a man left the queue of mourners and approached the coffin in Westminster Hall on Friday night.

Leicester Square stabbings: Man charged with attempted murder after two police officers attacked in London
One officer was stabbed in the head and neck and another in the arm. London Mayor Sadiq Khan said it was a reminder of the risk all officers take when they put on their uniform.

Mohammed Rahman, 24, was charged with the offence in connection with an attack on a male constable who was knifed in the neck and chest in Leicester Square at 6am on Friday.

'Muhammad' sure gets about doesn't he.

How is it that the USA, the land of the free allows this kind of teaching in schools that shouldn't even exist in the western world?  We have had these vile Islamic madrassa's here in the UK for many years now and it is common knowledge to everyone but our government that children as young as 5 are beaten senseless into hating the west and the none believer.

As is well known the author of the novel Satanic Verses Salman Rushdie  had a Fatwa (price) put on his head back in 1998 for committing the crime of Blasphemy. The western world was outraged then.

Now it appears that the world wide media seem absolutely oblivious why Rushdie would be attacked by a Muslim  from New Jersey USA and are still looking for a motive behind the resent attack on the author.  

I have to bring up this most recent talk show of Bill Maher.

Listen here to what Maher has to say about Islam and more relevant, listen to what one of his guest Piers Morgan has to say in response to Maher's opening comments.

Maher 2022 "So don't call me an Islamophobe"

And now listen to his response to a man that says exactly the same to a guest he had on his own show GB news in the UK

Morgan  2017 "Your sounding like a bigoted Islamophobic lunatic"

..... will keep you spellbound.

1 If you were accused of being a witch a few centuries ago you could expect to be persecuted, tortured, and burned at the stake. Heresy and black magic were simply not tolerated. But many of those who met a fiery end were totally innocent and died purely because of their religious beliefs.

2 According to science and history, there's no such thing as a witch. Those hapless souls accused of witchcraft and who ended up being burned at the stake had no ties whatsoever to Paganism, dark practices, or heresy. In fact, the only thing these witches, warlocks, and heretics were guilty of was that they weren't Protestant or Catholic.

3 Witch hysteria took off in the mid-1400s and continued until the beginning of the 18th century. Many innocent people were burned at the stake just for looking different or behaving oddly. The checklist for a suspected witch included innocuous things like having a wart, a hairy lip, a squint, or a birthmark. [and a big giant hooter that pokes in where it has no reason to].

4 Those unfortunate enough to possess the so-called characteristics of a witch were instantly condemned to a fiery and painful end, usually in full public view. It is estimated that 40,000 to 50,000 people were killed like this during this period in history.

5  However, some historians suggest this figure could be as high as 200,000 as many of the accused were torched away from the public arena.

There are 25 more reasons in the link for those that may be interested and  can be bothered to turn the page... I can't.

Muslims Protest ‘Provocative’ Film Depicting Mohammed’s Daughter

From early reading about this story it appears that the Sunni's and Sh'ite are in disagreement. 

The Lady of Heaven is a 2021 British epic historical drama film directed by Eli King in his directorial debut and written by the Twelver Shia Muslim Sheikh Yasser Al-Habib, the spiritual leader of The Mahdi Servants Union. Produced by Enlightened Kingdom, the film bills itself as the first movie on the life of the historical figure, Fatimah, during and after the era of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. In addition to 7th century Islamic history from the Twelver Shia perspective, the film links Islamic State in the 21st century and the origins of Islamic terrorism with historical figures revered in Sunni Islam.

Did the theatres showing this movie cave in?  If they haven't yet, it is my guess  they most certainly will eventually.

Watch;

"The people who will receive the severest punishment from Allah will be the picture makers.'" (Al Bukhari)

They're bringing 200,000 "Ukrainians" into Ireland, and this is what they're getting, they'll end up full of Muslims, all part of the Barcelona declaration that they're all in on!

the beliefs and some  comments in this thread

Just when you thought Nicola (wee cranky) Sturgeon  First Minister of Scotland couldn't get more stupid and creations, she offers this to Witches from days of yore.

"Today on International Women's Day, as first minister on behalf of the Scottish government, I am choosing to acknowledge that egregious historic injustice and extend a formal posthumous apology to all of those accused, convicted, vilified or executed under the Witchcraft Act of 1563."

So it appears that there aren't  more pressing and immediate problems for a first minister of a country to be concerned about when  the last Witch murdered in that part of Britain was over some 350 years ago. 

Will it now follow that the ancestors of Scottish Witches murdered by renown  witch-pricker John Kincaid be looking for reparations from Kincaid's descendants?

You couldn't make this bollocks up!

Skip to 12:32There is a dialogue and the call is picked up again at 16:12  if you wish only to hear the phone call. But the whole vid is worth a look as it gives his reasons for his act of terror and the woman he was attempting to free from  prison. 

He told worshippers: “Whose power is more powerful than us? Allah is more powerful than you. You, idiots. You kuffar (non-believers)… The non-believer is an idiot. He’s stupid.”
He went on: “Jihad, jihad, jihad. Jihad is compulsory. Jihad is fighting by sword. That means this jihad is compulsory upon you, not jihad is the word of mouth but jihad will remain compulsory until the Day of Resurrection…”

And he lost two sons fighting Allahs' "holy war". 

Abubaker Deghayes rolled out that old excuse saying he was only explaining the meaning of Jihad by the sword as" self-defence ". 

Those poor boys.

REVENGE RULING Dad who ‘made paedo pal who raped daughter, 6, dig his own grave’ WON’T face murder charge after ‘knifing him to death’

In harrowing footage, the sickened dad's daughter, now eight, was heard pleading:  “Oleg, that's enough, I can't take it anymore. I want to go home”.
The 34-year-old was suspected of stabbing Sviridov, 32, to death in a Russian forest after making him dig his own grave.
He originally faced a murder investigation - but has now been told this has been dropped, sources close to the case say.

I have been sent a question from Lemming and it appears to have been answered  but not by me?

 How has this happened!?

Is the Bible written in English worth the paper it is written on? I personally wouldn’t want to see this ancient work destroyed.

I think it is well known of me by now that on the surface I find the Bible (New Testament in particular) to be a book of contradictory, ambiguous, anomalous, vague, enigmatic and problematic half stories surrounding a man that believed or was led to believe he was a rightful king and heir to the throne of Jerusalem and the power struggle that he had to endure in the times of ancient Palestine under Roman occupation and between the many other factions and sects that existed at the time. And not to be taken literally at all times. i.e. a man didn’t rises from a physical death to be alive again after being physically dead for three days.

Others think to the contrary. For instance, there are those that I have met that believe the Bible to be clear and concise in its presentation and self evidently true and without any ambiguity whatsoever in the way it has come down to us. Until of course they are posed a few simple questions which usually arise not just frequently from the Bible but just as frequent from their own commentary, and when pressed on such it appears that these very same people will resort to the default that one must understand Greek or Hebrew to even begin to understand a Bible that is written in English! But by saying so they do not seem to understand that they have, in just a few words, rendered the Bible written in English redundant, pointless and unreliable as any kind of “witness” source to the life and times of the Christ.

So is there at all any point to reading, never mind studying the Bible written in English? A Bible that those who have said that is clear and concise but suddenly insist that the Bible is fathomable and understandable only when one is tutored, trained and learned in the ancient Greek or Hebrew languages?

Sorry wrong sub forum forum

" a tradition that has gone on for at least 5000 years"!  This would make their gods old, very old. Ancient in fact.

Thousands of people including Pagans, Druids and Witches, gathered at Stonehenge in England's county of Wiltshire, Tuesday, to attend the annual Winter Solstice ceremony, marking the shortest day and longest night of the year. Hundreds of Druids attended the Winter Solstice ceremony, many of them in traditional costume, while performing ceremonies with music and dances around the prehistoric monument, with many participants touching the ancient stones for its 'healing energy.'

Meet King Arthur Pendragon

Isn't it nice that they can continue this ancient religious practice without the fear of persecution by Christians ?

Is religion simply a crutch for the lost and lonely wishing for a sense of belonging?

Does it give them strength that they believe they otherwise wouldn't have?

Is it  a social support structure that they cannot find elsewhere?

Why is religion so important to the believer ?

Will this man now be charged further?

Not being an American I obviously do not know US law. But I am reasonably sure that had this racist hoax happened here in the UK there maybe further charges, i.e. behaviour likely to cause a riot/public disturbance or  behaviour likely to incite an affray.

And lets not forget this was a racist hoax against white people, i.e. a hate crime .

This short 4 min video says just about all, for me 

Can a bible story really get more silly?

The  Philistines had captured the Ark from the Israelites and it had been in their possession some months and had caused al kinds of damage to the local citizenry; they simply didn't know how it worked or how to use it? So decided it must be returned.

1 Samuel 

Bible Dictionary

What did they think god  or the Israelites were going to do with these piles of gold... eat them?

 God's failure to learn from his own mistakes was one thing but to keep from his mother the cruel and violent demise and failure of her son's mission on earth was nothing short of out-right cruelty.  It does beg the question had god chosen the right "messiah"?

God's promise to Mary mother  "blessed among woman" of Jesus seems clear enough on the surface when we read:

"Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

So although the "Blessed among women" Mary " is a bit perplexed by it all she joyfully rushes off to tell her cousin Elizabeth the "good news".

Nice . 🙂

 But apart from the fact the bold underlined above failed to come to fruition it raises the question why didn't god inform the "blessed among women" that her son would have to endure such a violent torturous scourging and be nailed to a cross to suffer an agonising death in front of her own eyes?

"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene". (was every woman called Mary in those days?)

And is it not the Christian belief that the death of Jesus the "messiah" was foretold and prophesised about in the Old Testament? If this was certainly the case, how come Mary Jesus' mother didn't know the fate of her son sent from god?

The Sermon on the Mount is all about receiving one's reward for keeping all of Jesus' commands, yet doesn't this fly in the face of what else is commanded in the scriptures about doing and giving while expecting nothing in return?

And as I mentioned recently, to be  offering compensation for these things, rather than teaching that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating.

The sermon on the mount on the other hand does not teach that we should do good things simply because it is the right thing to do.

Jesus , it has been agreed by some Christians  that Jesus resurrected as flesh and blood man.

So a recent question I have posed is- how did Jesus enter the closed and locked room?

"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”John 20:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A19-20&version=NIV

 How did he do it?

 I have heard a few reasons as to why god is said to have become flesh and not once have I been able to understand why this "incarnation" had to happen and even why it  should  be believed.

The common shout from Christians is that god,  became flesh to understand "human suffering"  . But this simply cannot be in any way true ...unless we ignore the awkward fact that God as god, understood human suffering perfectly well?  And we know this because THE BIBLE says so.

 So let us first blow the "human suffering" argument out of the water by highlighting what god himself has to say on the matter while he is still god;

Isaiah 45:21-22. God as god says;  “Turn to me and be saved,  all you ends of the earth;  for I am God, and there is no other".

Jonah 3:5-10. " When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened".

So we can clearly read,  god as god on both these occasions was forgiving sins before he is believed to have "incarnated" as Jesus on earth. And as a point of fact, Jesus as Jesus was also forgiving sins before he was crucified so that blows the "crucified for our sins" clean out of the water too.

So can a single one of the Christian fold here give a valid and factual reason why god had to "incarnate" as a human being here on earth.

There are few passages from John gospel only indicating that Jesus is god.

The other gospel  refer to him as being  only a "son of god" which is nothing more than a title of the times, and today as a matter of fact.  Indeed, the whole nation of Israel were said by god to be his own and special children.   Also Jesus is clearly called   the "son of man".  So who is making Jesus out to be a god?

Why are the other gospels silent on the matter of Jesus being a god? And doesn't all of Christianity rest on this ambiguous claim.

..... the desperate and needy theist! 

Woman prays for her dead sister and she comes back with a revelation, saying  ` Jesus is in love with me`.

It is such as shame, but as usual this miraculous revelation was revealed and  told by a practicing Christian on the Christian Broadcasting Network, which to my mind contradicts the whole point of the lost sheep.

7 minute clip

 

With Adam and Eve the failure is that they disobeyed god. But god created these pair. I didn’t. Yet I am told I will suffer in hell for three reasons.

(1) I apparently have inherited their sin.

(2) I don’t believe Jesus was god;

(3)It is doubtful that even Jesus believed himself to be a god either?  So then his master plan for the creation of man was a complete failure. 

Then mankind become so corrupt by his actions and multiple sinful ways that he sent a flood to wipe them from the face of the earth. Another fail.


He confuse human language after the destruction of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel incident so that they could not effectively communicate with each other. Another failure.

Matthew 13: 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mathew 13 comes well after these previous disasters sent onto the shoulders of mankind by god,  and it appears that god still hadn't corrected a single one of his own previous errors, either!?  

  Why so many failures if god is said, and seen to be by millions, to be perfect? How many goes does he have to have before getting it right, before we are sent to the flames to face much gnashing of teeth in perpetuity?

We take this to mean that Jesus brings peace to the world.  But then we read:

On these occasions Jesus was either alone or only there were only two present at the time?

Matthew 4:1-11

Only two present

Indeed Mr Pilate, what is truth?

Anyone that has taken the time to read these scriptures will know that they ever hardly agree on anything at all.

But one would expect that of all the events in the life of Jesus, the crucifixion would be the one single event that they could't confuse. After all, Christianity is built upon the belief in the  crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus so how come there are so much inconsistency between these  ` eye witness accounts `   concerning such a pinnacle moment in the life of the Christ. 

We have a man, nailed in one place, he is not moving around he is static; so anyone standing there simply couldn't get anything wrong about the events that occurred in the short space of time  between being  "nailed" on the cross and allegedly dying .

Looking first at what led up to this barbaric execution we have Matthew & Mark telling us that Jesus was tried AND sentenced by the Jewish priests of the Sanhedrin.

Luke says that Jesus was tried by the Sanhedrin but not sentenced by them.

Yet according to John Jesus doesn't even appear before the Sanhedrin at all!

The same confusion and inconsistency is there concerning what the Christ had to say with his very  last  ` dying `breath, too.

 The writers of these scriptures who  we are expected to believe were also Jesus' close disciples cannot even remember their master and teachers dying words correctly either!

 So don't be surprised to read that  Mathew & Mark have  Jesus quoting psalm 22 as his very  last breath slips and wheezes from him.

But Luke has Jesus' last dying breath as quoting psalm 31.

But for you that don't like or accept this as "gospel truth"  how about John's account that simply has Jesus saying  `I am thirsty ` and ` it is finished `.  (why would anyone give vinegar to a thirsty man?)

Then we have Joseph of Arimathea going to ask Pilate for the` body ` of Jesus so he can bury him. Pilate is shocked to learn that Jesus had died so quickly and asks for a second opinion.   But why was he surprised? Jesus had by all account had already been beaten to near death before being hung on a cross, gibbet or tree. He had also been  the speared in the side. it is also said to be an act of mercy to quicken the death of people crucified by breaking the legs. But Jesus hadn't had his legs broken.  

According to Matthew Jesus had foretold that ;

(A) Who is the "dragon"? 

(B) where did he get his authority to grant power to anything or anyone considering everything in the universe was created by god, and god is in charge,  so THE BIBLE says. Colossians1:16 

(C) What/ who is the beast?

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him". Revelation 12:9  

I see.

So are we to assume this casting out was from heaven? As told to us here>> :Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! " ? 

Morning Star, now that rings a bell. Yes here we are: