What Do The Gospels Actually Say About the Crucifixion + ? Pt1

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Anyone that has taken the time to read these scriptures will know that they ever hardly agree on anything at all.

But one would expect that of all the events in the life of Jesus, the crucifixion would be the one single event that they could't confuse. After all, Christianity is built upon the belief in the  crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus so how come there are so much inconsistency between these  ` eye witness accounts `   concerning such a pinnacle moment in the life of the Christ. 

We have a man, nailed in one place, he is not moving around he is static; so anyone standing there simply couldn't get anything wrong about the events that occurred in the short space of time  between being  "nailed" on the cross and allegedly dying .


Looking first at what led up to this barbaric execution we have Matthew & Mark telling us that Jesus was tried AND sentenced by the Jewish priests of the Sanhedrin.
Luke says that Jesus was tried by the Sanhedrin but not sentenced by them.
Yet according to John Jesus doesn't even appear before the Sanhedrin at all!

Jesus then is is taken to his place of execution to be crucified. Or was it as Paul suggests, a gibbet? Or was it as Peter, the betrayer and denier  three times of Christ who says his master was hung on a tree?


The same confusion and inconsistency is there concerning what the Christ had to say with his very  last  ` dying `breath, too.
 The writers of these scriptures who  we are expected to believe were also Jesus' close disciples cannot even remember their master and teachers dying words correctly either!
 So don't be surprised to read that  Mathew & Mark have  Jesus quoting psalm 22 as his very  last breath slips and wheezes from him.

But Luke has Jesus' last dying breath as quoting psalm 31.

But for you that don't like or accept this as "gospel truth"  how about John's account that simply has Jesus saying  `I am thirsty ` and ` it is finished `.  (why would anyone give vinegar to a thirsty man?)

Then we have Joseph of Arimathea going to ask Pilate for the` body ` of Jesus so he can bury him. Pilate is shocked to learn that Jesus had died so quickly and asks for a second opinion.   But why was he surprised? Jesus had by all account had already been beaten to near death before being hung on a cross, gibbet or tree. He had also been  the speared in the side. it is also said to be an act of mercy to quicken the death of people crucified by breaking the legs. But Jesus hadn't had his legs broken.  

According to Matthew Jesus had foretold that ;

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth".

 But I'm afraid that Jesus'  abacus  must have been missing a bead or two and he had got his maths a little askew. Because according to the gospels, Jesus died on Friday and ` rose` on the following Sunday and so spending only TWO nights " in the heart of the earth "/
And there is the fact that Jonah didn't or hadn't died before being "swallowed" . 

Marks gospel tells us that when some of the women that Jesus used to mooch and sponge off went to the Tomb that they merely saw a man in a white robe inside.
Luke tells us that it was two men in brilliant cloths that suddenly appeared by their side out of thin air.
Matthew, one shouldn't be surprised,  as usual has to go one better adding sound effects and miraculous visuals:

"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men".

And to think the very foundation of Christianity relies on these confusing inconsistencies.








#2
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Stephen
Because according to the gospels, Jesus died on Friday and ` rose` on the following Sunday
Interesting if true but I don't remember a day of the week being given for all these events. It has been a while since I read through it so maybe I just forgot, could you give me the verse where it says he died on a Friday and the verse that says he rose on a Sunday?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
No sorry. I used to do so along with every claim I made about what the scriptures say and convey.
But now I am simply fed up of having to spoon feed those that claim to be Christians whilst not having a clue about what is written in the scriptures.


It is not too hard to work out for yourself if one reads what Mathew says about the Sabbath?




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@Stephen
It is not too hard to work out for yourself if one reads what Mathew says about the Sabbath?
I could work out some basic arithmetic without it specifically saying the word "Friday" or "Sunday" etc. if it gives some point of reference to go off of which I assume is what you are hinting at, I am not sure what you mean here though when you say 'what Mathew says about the Sabbath?'... could you be more specific? What does Mathew say about the Sabbath?
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I've gone over this before. The days used to run from sunset to sunset so if you count the days from sunset to sunset it ends up being correct.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
What does Mathew say about the Sabbath?

That's simply enough. If you are so interested you should  read Matthews gospel and you will find out. Simples, eh.  Don't ask me again please.   Because as I am often reminded, ` I am not a teacher and not here to teach anyone `.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Don't forget what the scripture actually states , Witch.   Three days AND three nights.  

 The truth is that the gospel writers simply cannot even get it together when it comes to the day of Jesus' death. Of all the dates they had to remember and should  agree on, they couldn't even  decide what the actual day was that their lord and master  ' son of god' actually died?  

I have found  that when this particular questionable day is up for discussion the actual day of the Christs death can and does  vary . There seems to be a choice! 

such as;
There is a choice of  two different Mondays. Two different Tuesdays. One Wednesday. Two different Fridays and One Saturday.  I seem to recall  a belief that a Thursday too was a possibility and all  regardless how how long Jesus was said to have been in the tomb, Witch.

And it is this uncertainty and this  unreliability that the christian faith stands on.


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BrotherDThomas
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@Stephen


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Stephen,

DAMN YOU!  Here you go again in the weakening of my faith!  Barring the embarrassing inconsistencies of the Resurrection, and since Jesus is the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, how can a God die in the first place if He is not weak to begin with?  As an example, look at Zeus, who is the king of all Gods, including Jesus,  as it is written in HIs Greek writings equal to Christian writings of Jesus, where do you think Zeus would allow himself to be murdered? NO WAY!  

Another disturbing fact is that if Jesus returned to life 3 days subsequent to His murder, then He really didn't die to save our sins since He returned to life!  As we know, a TRUE sacrifice is that you REMAIN DEAD like our soldiers in war fighting for our country that would have loved this option of them returning to life!  

At all irrational thought that we Christians have to accept with our faith, as shown in your posts, I still have to believe in Christianity because it shows that there will be NO WOMEN in heaven, where we had to put up with these disgruntled Sisters of Eve upon Earth, and the prize of heaven for men, is that the female gender is non-existent, praise the seemingly Zombie Jesus upon being risen!

.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,

DAMN YOU!  Here you go again in the weakening of my faith!

  That is not my intention Brother, but I won't be apologising anytime soon, you understand.



 Barring the embarrassing inconsistencies of the Resurrection,

 Of which there are many.


how can a God die in the first place if He is not weak to begin with? 

Indeed Brother. 


 As an example, look at Zeus, who is the king of all Gods, including Jesus,  as it is written in HIs Greek writings equal to Christian writings of Jesus, where do you think Zeus would allow himself to be murdered? NO WAY!  

 I agree.


Another disturbing fact is that if Jesus returned to life 3 days subsequent to His murder, then He really didn't die to save our sins since He returned to life!

Indeed.    A valid point that I have covered a few times in the past. AND no one has ever been able to explain why a barbaric ` blood `  sacrifice anyway? What is it with this god that he demands blood over and over and over again?




 As we know, a TRUE sacrifice is that you REMAIN DEAD like our soldiers in war fighting for our country that would have loved this option of them returning to life!

Indeed Brother, that truly is a valiant blood sacrifice.  Yet Jesus knew all along that he would be coming back din't he?  He had  told his followers as such if my memory serves me correctly? so I struggle to see the sacrifice or indeed the need for a sacrifice to " save us from our sins". One has to remember, we are talking god here aren't we. he could have just said,  - your sins are forgiven - without  the need for scourging and beating and crucifying.  Why is that Christians can NEVER explain this vile torturous and pointless "prophesised" murder?


At all irrational thought that we Christians have to accept with our faith, as shown in your posts, I still have to believe in Christianity because it shows that there will be NO WOMEN in heaven, where we had to put up with these disgruntled Sisters of Eve upon Earth, and the prize of heaven for men, is that the female gender is non-existent, praise the seemingly Zombie Jesus upon being risen!

 Well these men of the gospels weren't too pleased about having women around at all where they? But Jesus didn't mind mooching and sponging off of these "women of substance"  when it suited him,did he?

.

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@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: "And it is this uncertainty and this  unreliability that the christian faith stands on."

Uh, what is worst for me that my faith of Christianity has to stand upon as well relative to Jesus, is the fact that He was born out wedlock since Mary and Joseph were NOT married yet, therefore since Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were Jews, then in true Jewish tradition, Jesus was and is a bastard child, and the ramification thereof that Jesus committed (Deuteronomy 23:3)!  WTF!  :(
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@BrotherDThomas
Mary and Joseph were NOT married yet, WTF!


 "WTF " indeed Brother!!! And if we are to believe ALL  of these gospels then we have to believe that Mary's pregnancy lasted for somewhere in  the region of TEN YEARS!!!! 
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@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR POST ONCE AGAIN IS DISTURBING!: "....then we have to believe that Mary's pregnancy lasted for somewhere the region of TEN YEARS!!!! 

Listen, I need to take a rest from your reality posts about my Christian Faith. Now you purport that the adulterous Mary had a pregnancy of about 10 years?!  Whats next, you showing images of Jesus as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate having his diapers changed, or sucking upon Mary's teats for sustenance? BLASPHEME!

Regarding the "Celestial Impregnation of Mary," can you imagine in how poor ol' Joseph must have felt when he heard Mary alone shouting in the bedroom, "oh God, Oh God ... OH GOD," and how relative that was in her being impregnated by her son Jesus, as God, and when Jesus being born, was His own Father as well regarding the Triune Doctrine!  Can it get any more convoluted and embarrassing in the beginning of my faith? WTF!  

As if Isaiah 7:14 wasn't enough controversy to Jesus, these biblical axioms that we are presenting are even more disturbing to Jesus' birth! FU*&3$@+(@#!

.


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@BrotherDThomas
or sucking upon Mary's teats?BLASPHEME! 

Well  considering that I am only and always do quote the scriptures , I am struggling to see who it is that is the blasphemer, Brother?

And that image you presented right there, to me is right out of the Egyptian legends of Osiris suckling Horus.


Mary suckling Jesus.


 There is quite a lot of Egyptian imagery in the gospels , Brother.  But I would hate it that you lost sleep over my pointing it all out to you. So I will leave it at just those two images of  Mary mirroring the Osiris mysteries .

Sleep tight Brother.
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@Stephen


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Stephen,

Holy Jesus Christ!  Referring to your revealing post #13, okay, I am not going to mention anything more that disturbs me about Jesus' birth, whereas you may bring forth more embarrassing images again!  Therefore, thank God, which is Jesus, that you didn't try and find images of Mary changing Jesus' diapers!  Whew ..........

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Polytheist-Witch
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Actually the story is pretty clear that he had to be taken down because of Passover. Sunset on Friday there you go.



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@Polytheist-Witch
Yes Friday is the generally accepted day. 
#17
oromagi
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@Stephen
And to think the very foundation of Christianity relies on these confusing inconsistencies.

I'd disagree that the foundation of Christianity relies on the Bible's literal and consistent truth. 

For the first few centuries of Christianity, each Christian church kept a sacred and mostly secret collection of Christian testimonies called apocrypha.  There were hundreds of gospels (mostly written in Coine Greek and Aramaic) that disagreed on every detail large and small until a general Latin canon emerged around 400 BC.  Then we had more than a millenia of Gospels being read out in Latin to illiterate congregations that spoke no Latin and understood little of what was in the Bible except what priests and artists depicted.

Until the printing press was invented, few people expected any kind of consistency within the Bible because every Bible was different- sometimes in large ways but mostly in little ways.  From St. Augustine to Martin Luther, almost every Christian believed that stories like the Garden of Eden and the Flood were more metaphorical than real.

The idea that every story in the Bible represents a factual claim, that every character in the Bible actually existed and every historical event true is a very modern and mostly American idea.  Luther taught that every Christian could and should read the Bible in their own native language and that each Christian's personal interpretation had just as much validity as the Catholic interpretation.  This led to increasing rectitude on both sides until by the mid-19th Century the Second Great Awakening was claiming Biblical infallibility in America while the First Vatican Council was claiming Papal infallibility from Rome.

Whatever the actual factualness of Biblical claims might be, we can rest assured that the people who originally authored those books in the Bibles would scratch their head at the notion of an inerrant Bible or that the Bible must be internally consistent- they were never written with that intent.
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@oromagi


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Oromagi,

Your dissertation only shows again that when reading my serial killer Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures, then they are to take it literally as shown, except the obvious poems and parables.  Whereas in this way, there needs to be no convenient "interpretation" to be biased towards what a person wants Jesus to say, praise!

In the name of the hung Savior,

Brother D. Thomas
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,

Holy Jesus Christ!  Referring to your revealing post #13, okay, I am not going to mention anything more that disturbs me about Jesus' birth, whereas you may bring forth more embarrassing images again!  

Well I have a little more disappointing information to put your way , Brother. The myth that Christianity has wrapped around Jesus the man that believed himself to be King Of the Jews and heir to the throne of David is indeed the Osiris and Horus legend. And I am pretty sure that Jesus would have been appalled that a whole new religion had sprang up in his name.  But that is something yourself and other Christians have to live with and not me.

And I believe it was Jew/Roman historian Flavius Josephus that mentions  a certain Egyptian "leading the Jews astray". And don't the gospels mention the Jesus family being instructed to flee to Egypt?  Maybe this is where the idea  to wrap  the Osiris /Horus myth around a Jew man , came from?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Did "Friday" exist back then.

I'm aware of the Norse origins of Friday.....But was it also an Arabian thing?
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@zedvictor4
I doubt they called the day itself Friday, I believe they call Saturday Sabbit so I doubt Friday actually called Friday. They certainly had days that went from sunset to sunset and they needed him down by sunset on that day because it started Passover.. 
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@Stephen


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Stephen,

Regarding the content of your post #19,   *^%$%*&!# .....  neener, neener, neener, I DON'T HEAR YOU, SORRY! ........ ^$@#%&)(!@

.
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@Stephen
Anyone that has taken the time to read these scriptures will know that they ever hardly agree on anything at all.
Well that all depends doesn't? On whether you are looking for agreement or not.  You have clearly indicated you choose to find error and so you do. 

And given my position - I too see the error in it.  

Yet I am at least cognizant enough to realize that this  is not rational - simply prejudice.  Prejudice only persuades the believers. 


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@Stephen
Gee I am glad I only commented on one line.  You love the sound of your own voice or computer, don't you? 

My concern in this particular topic is of you.   Errors are errors. Yet in your case - prejudice are also errors.   You start with your conclusion and then try and attempt to prove it. 

That is hardly helpful for anyone.  

But the other thing is that you need me.   Yes. You do.   You look around and see what I write - not just in your own topics or responses to you - and you attempt to needle me.  I love it.  You need me.  And you don't even get it.  

I could jump in and assist you - but you keep on whining with your same old stories. At least try and be original.  Give some of the Christians something new to chew on. 

Boring.  Me I could care less.  Yes. I am writing so perhaps  I do care.  Besides you will say I do. That is what you do. 

Well on this post I have 8 lines.  Imagine how long your next post will be.  
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@Timid8967
Anyone that has taken the time to read these scriptures will know that they ever hardly agree on anything at all.
Well that all depends doesn't?

No. The gospel writers hardly agree. That is a biblical fact. 



You have clearly indicated you choose to find error and so you do. 

Did I call them "errors"? No. What happens is I clearly see the contradictory inconsistencies (as you do) written in front of my eyes.  They are not my inventions and they certainly do not come from my own imagination.   And I recall you agreeing with me . HERE>>

As for the bible - yes I have read it. Not suggesting i know it well and I don't pretend to understand it. It is quite confusing and to me contradictory.   #186

You are welcome to attempt to straighten out and explain away these inconsistencies should you choose to do so. But it takes years and years of practice to find excuses for the inexcusable and reasons for the unreasonable, defence for the indefensible and more than one single bible reading to explain away inconsistent and contradictor things such:

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

so when you are ready dimtim start with that^^^^^^^^



  But as I recall, you have already made your opinion extremely clear to us many many times now concerning these unreliable ambiguous scriptures, haven't you? And it appears that you are in total agreement with me, doesn't it? HERE you are:

As for the bible - yes I have read it. Not suggesting i know it well and I don't pretend to understand it. It is quite confusing and to me contradictory.   #186
Timid8967    I think the best place for the bible is on a burning pile of books #8
Except that I don't agree with you that these  scriptures that Christianity hold holy should be cast onto a fire.


And how is that you  have  forgotten this so soon?

 It is tenor of the bible as an entirety that gives me reason for it be destroyed.    #14  Timid8967



And given my position - I too see the error in it.  

What errors do you see?  


Errors are errors. 


They are, "God breathed" errors too aren't they?  2 Timothy 3:16  But you are failing to (or simply do not want to)  recognise that these bible errors as you have called them, render the whole of the scriptures unreliable in the least.


I could jump in and assist you 

 No thanks. I do ok all on my own. I have created 90+ threads in the religion forum and all without your help and all before you appeared.


Yet I am at least cognizant enough to realize that this  is not rational - simply prejudice.

Maybe from your standpoint. But again, rather than simply seeing these repeated inconsistencies for what they are, you are coming across as defending and promoting these scriptures rather than highlighting what it is that YOU have found to be "in error" about them.  Or why YOU find then confusing.  OR why YOU believe them to be contradictory.
 
SO, why don't you highlight what it is that you consider to be errors in the scriptures and we can all  discuss them on a thread of your own? 


  Prejudice only persuades the believers. 

Again, for someone that considers " Christianity in particular" to be the most dangerous religion on the planet#153, you appear very concerned that what I have to highlight and have to say is  "persuading  believers in a myth" away from the planets most "dangerous religion in particular" don't you?

Is all you have to do if you feel that strongly about the fact that I maybe persuading believers  to look closely and question for themselves these unreliable scripture about a god you don't believe in#11 and what YOU call the "myth"that is Jesus#18,   is simply counter what it is I have to say and what it is I have highlighted, but with facts and not inventions.

But while you do this, you must keep in mind that YOU wish the whole christian religion to be " cancelled" don't you?  #18



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@Polytheist-Witch
Yep...That's the trouble with translation and transcription...Things get misinterpreted or lost, and also embellished.

And yet some are prepared to accept  without question, an English account of something, transcribed some 1600 to 3000 years  or more, after the events.

And that's assuming that the original tales were in fact 100% accurate, honest and unembellished.

You can therefore see why some people are a tad more sceptical.
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@Stephen
Well what else can I say except I agree with you - at  least in respect of the gospels.  I don't however like you continuing your harassment of me and trolling over my past comments.  

Please stop referring to comments I have made previously. And please keep your posts to a shorter length. For the record I simply now only scan over your comments - and don't read the lot. So I am sure I miss much of what you say and of questions you ask. 

And I will continue to do so. 
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Stephen
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@Timid8967
Well what else can I say except I agree with you - at  least in respect of the gospels.

Good then there simply is  no need for you to be on this thread a second  longer is there.

Unless of course you can add to this  list on contradiction concerning the crucifixion  of a man that you believe to be a "mythical Jesus". 


  Prejudice only persuades the believers. 

Again, for someone that considers " Christianity in particular" to be the most dangerous religion on the planet#153,  and Christians to be " weird", you appear very concerned that what I have to highlight and have to say is  "persuading  believers in a myth" away from the planets most "dangerous religion in particular" don't you?

Is all you have to do if you feel that strongly about the fact that I maybe persuading believers  to look closely and question for themselves these unreliable scripture about a god you don't believe in#11 and what YOU call the "myth"that is Jesus#18,   is simply counter what it is I have to say and what it is I have highlighted, but with facts and not inventions.

But while you do this, you must keep in mind that YOU wish the whole christian religion to be " cancelled" don't you?  #18





And given my position - I too see the error in it.  

What errors do you see?  


Errors are errors. 


They are, "God breathed" errors too aren't they?  2 Timothy 3:16  But you are failing to (or simply do not want to)  recognise that these bible errors as you have called them, render the whole of the scriptures unreliable in the least.
.



  I don't however like you continuing your harassment of me and trolling over my past comments. 



 This is not "harassment",   so as you often tell me "Suck it up princess" . But you see your past comments make your stance more than clear  and your past comment show you to be inconsistent and contradictory to what your present comments clearly suggest. It is not harassment if they are your own words. 


  If you don't like your past vehement  anti bible , anti god, anti Jesus, anti Christian and your anti religion comments to be brought into this or any other thread of mine or anyone else's',  then simply don't involve yourself. You came here, I don't want you here on my thread,  and I didn't drag you here under protest or duress. So simply leave MY thread. 



Please stop referring to comments I have made previously.

No. I will continue to remind you and members here what your anti religious bible burning stance is if and when I read of you contradicting your self and being - as you are repeatedly - inconsistent. 


And please keep your posts to a shorter length.


 I will keep my post as long as they need to be. If you don't like it don't join a thread that often causes me to remind you of your previous contradictory and inconsistent comments or statements. It really is that simple.


For the record I simply now only scan over your comments - and don't read the lot. So I am sure I miss much of what you say and of questions you ask. 

How you read anything is of no concern to me.  But I feel this to be pure ignorance to comment on something you admit to only " scanning over".

 
Needling me

Well again as I recall it, it is you that admitted to setting out to "needle me" . Have you forgotten already?  HERE  you are>>>


  I knew if I kept needling you would once again reveal your paranoia. #105
This is not to mention trying to "needle me" with this  vulgar absolutely uncalled for filth from you
HERE>>>


>#272   


It appears to me that it is you and not me that likes the sound of your own voice and his keyboard tapping and far too much...... for your own good.

 So I can say you won't be missed by me as there is absolutely no reason for you to be on this thread at all now, is there , dimtim8967
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ood then there simply is  no need for you to be on this thread a second  longer is there.
You'd love me to me wouldn't you?  
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Well what else can I say except I agree with you - at  least in respect of the gospels.

Good then there simply is  no need for you to be on this thread a second  longer is there.

Unless of course you can add to this  list on contradiction concerning the crucifixion  of a man that you believe to be a "mythical Jesus". 


You'd love me to me wouldn't you?  


I have said, NOT Unless of course you can add to this  list on contradiction concerning the story  of the crucifixion  of a man that you believe to be a "mythical Jesus", anyway .