Right or Wrong Choice?

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#1
Stephen
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After all of the witnessing of “miracles & wonders” by hundreds of thousands of Jewish people and hundreds of thousands more hearing those wonderful sermons about selling your worldly goods to give  “poor” and buy swords, it appears that the short minded and forgetful Jews still couldn’t recognise a “messiah” when they seen and heard one in action. Or could they?

The crowds, we are told were so desperate to watch this man Jesus work his miracles and wonders that they would climb trees to get just a glimpse of him or cut holes in the roof of the house just to get a better view and be nearer to him. Mark3:20 – Mark4:1 – Luke 7:11 – Luke 8:19 Luke 12:1. Thousands upon thousands had also travelled long distances too:

 “many people came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon”. Mark 3:7-9
And it is said that just a glimpse of Jesus was enough to have the Jews“overwhelmed with wonder” and clamouring to greet him”. Mark9:14
So to say he was `held in high esteem` doesn't even cover it does it.

How then could it all suddenly be forgotten by thousands of people that had witnessed Jesus healing the sick  and making  dead people alive again on so many occasions? What about all those wedding guests that he had kept in booze all day, John2:1-11, had even they too forgot this “miracle”?

Where were the five thousand and the four thousand that had heard the sermons spoken by the “son of god” himself and  who had fed every single one of them? Matthew 14:13-21, Matthew 15:29-39.

Pilate asked them, "Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?" Matthew27:17;

“Barabbas,”they answered. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!? 

Luke23:25 offers a little more information by telling us that:
“He released the man [Barabbas] who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, but he delivered Jesus over to their will”.


So these ungrateful Jews- those he had actaully been sent  so save - it appears, preferred it that a murder was let loose amongst them to run the streets. 

Why then did the multitude of Jews choose the murdering zealot Jesus Barabbas over the son of god and prince of peace Jesus the Messiah?Jesus after all, was the messiah allegedly prophesied about in the OT and recognise to be the messiah by non other than John the baptist,“the greatest prophet that was ever born of woman” Matthew11:8-11.

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#2
Stephen
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Was Pilate even capable of this dispensation? 
#3
FLRW
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@Stephen

Remember that  the Bible is a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.


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@FLRW


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FLRW,

YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE: "Remember that  the Bible is a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends."

Are you actually stating that when blatantly shown by me that Jesus was the number 1 serial killer of all time within the scriptures, that this fact is a "primitive legend?!"

I will refer you to this revealing biblical passage relative to your quote above: “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5) Therefore, Jesus' inspired words in this instance disagrees with your assessment that Jesus is a primitive legend, and therefore still stands guilty of being the #1 serial killer of this world, bar none!   BLASPHEME!


.




#5
Dr.Franklin
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@Stephen
are you asking why they killed Jesus?
#6
secularmerlin
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@FLRW
Remember that  the Bible is a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.
So you are saying that the bible can be mostly dismissed?
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@Dr.Franklin
are you asking why they killed Jesus?
That some end times preaching religious dissident was executed by the Roman government it is not unreasonable. It is further not unreasonable to assume it was for spreading dissidence. I don't have a problem with that part of the story. I'm not sure I would be as aggressive as Steve but I don't in principle agree with your position any more than he does.
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#8
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@Dr.Franklin
are you asking why they killed Jesus?

Nope.

I am asking where were all those thousands of people that had witnessed his miracles and sermons, when it came to the crunch?  Read post one, Doc. #1



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#9
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@secularmerlin
That some end times preaching religious dissident was executed by the Roman government it is not unreasonable.

 Correct. Especially one that had - by all accounts - accumulated a massive following and growing financial support from all quarters and that was presenting a threat to the status quo. 

But this doesn't answer the questions, does it? 








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#10
Stephen
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So It appears then that the ungrateful Jews that had witnessed all of the miracles and wonders that are alleged to have been performed by Jesus had pleaded for the life of Jesus Barabbas a terrorist,  and had preferred that their own saviour be executed?  There has to be a good reason for this if this is what historically happened? 

Not even the Pharisee who's daughter Jesus had brought back "from the dead" turned out show his support and  appreciation for what Jesus had done for him and his wife.
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@Stephen
they were vastly outnumbered in the province and some probably switched sides due to societal pressure on them

that just my guess
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@secularmerlin
the end times wasn't his main teaching
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@Dr.Franklin
the end times wasn't his main teaching
In as much as we know what he might have taught at all l don't see any reason to object to this statement.
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@secularmerlin
the end times were part of the nt writings and not the oral word of Jesus
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@Dr.Franklin
the end times were part of the nt writings and not the oral word of Jesus
I'm not proposing what any hysterical figure actually said nor to what degree they are reflected in the NT.
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@secularmerlin
whats wrong with the final judgement
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@Dr.Franklin
whats wrong with the final judgement
What judgment is that?
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#18
Stephen
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@Dr.Franklin
they were vastly outnumbered in the province ...................... that just my guess

So? Are you saying that every one of the thousands that had witnessed this wonder worker in action were cowards?  What would you have done , Doc? Would you have gone along to the trial and protest the innocence of Jesus and ask for his release?  Its a simply question Doc? 

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@Dr.Franklin
No parent or decent person should have to ask that  
#20
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@Stephen
There probably aren't many jews here to answer you, but they can be stubborn. When Moses was in the wilderness with them, God gave them manna from heaven on the condition they did not store any up. Despite God literally raining the modern day equivalent of free pizza on the Jews daily, they still had little faith in him and hoarded manna. They were punished for this by the manna they hoarded rotting and God refusing to rain down more free pizza. 




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@Polytheist-Witch
Ask what?
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@Stephen
o? Are you saying that every one of the thousands that had witnessed this wonder worker in action were cowards?  What would you have done , Doc? Would you have gone along to the trial and protest the innocence of Jesus and ask for his release?  Its a simply question Doc? 

Is this even an objection or are you just curious? and they were there, it describes the women weeping as Jesus was getting killed.

Im curious, what does this prove? Does this prove that the Bible is false or that the Jesus story is inconsistent? What
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@secularmerlin
the final judgement in the Bible
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#24
Stephen
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@Dr.Franklin
o? Are you saying that every one of the thousands that had witnessed this wonder worker in action were cowards?  What would you have done , Doc? Would you have gone along to the trial and protest the innocence of Jesus and ask for his release?  Its a simply question Doc? 

Is this even an objection or are you just curious? and they were there, it describes the women weeping as Jesus was getting killed.

You'er dogging the question , Doc.  And the women weren't even mentioned as being at the trial. The women , strangely,  wailed only after Jesus was relived of the cross by Simon the  Cyrene who just happened  to be returning to the city after a leisurely walk in the countryside- poor Simon.  And a handful of women does not a multitude of ungrateful followers make, Doc.



Im curious, what does this prove? Does this prove that the Bible is false or that the Jesus story is inconsistent? What

I think it proves that Jesus wasn't as popular with the Jews as Christians like to imagine him to have been. These wonders and miracles were obviously  not good enough for them to go along to the trial and ask, NO ! demand Jesus' immediate release,  and they were there to witness the miracles and wonders, wasn't they , Doc?

Would you have gone along to the trial and protest the innocence of Jesus and demand for his release? 


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Stephen
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@Bringerofrain
There probably aren't many jews here to answer you, but they can be stubborn. 

This goes nowhere in explaining the total lack of support of these hundreds of thousands followers that had come 2from miles around" and had  witnessed his "miracles and wonders".

Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you,  a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
And while we  are on the subject of healing, can you explain to me why Jesus cured only a few lepers and not simply eradicated leprosy from the face of the earth altogether? 
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@Stephen
I think it boils down time the madness of crowds. People riot over a career criminal getting killed, but ignore the violence rampant in the black community which was a responsible for more deaths per year. When Louis Farrakhan did the million man March to end black on black violence, it was quickly forgotten and instead anger started being directed at the group of people who put their life on the line to protect the black community.

You can see when crowds have the choice between making a real impact on society and reducing death and injustice like in the million man March or the choice of releasing their self rightous anger like with the BLM riots, they will 100% of the time opt for self rightous anger over actually saving lives. 

I don't see the point in Jesus saving all of the leprosy. The message of his philosophy covered that we are already dead. "Let the dead bury their dead". If those lepers are already dead than who cares? 

Plus it looks like when he healed people, he usually credited the people's faith. Perhaps those lepers lacked faith, but the ones who traveled miles to see him, did not. 

Why wipe out leprosy if you already consider the person dead? Why wipe it out if the person is going to the afterlife at some point and this is just a temporary situation prior to eternal bliss? 

The only reason to heal people it seems was to build a bigger and stronger following, not to make any difference on this planet in terms of the amount of suffering and death.




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#27
Stephen
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If those lepers are already dead than who cares? 

So you don't have an answer. Then try this one. Why did he even  bother healing  a few lepers or curing anyone at all if  they were "already dead anyway"?   You see here again you have yourself highlighted one of those biblical anomalies that need answering. 


The message of his philosophy covered that we are already dead. "Let the dead bury their dead".

I agree and I have dedicated a whole thread just to that one single enigmatic 6 letter  uttering from the Christ. I put forward that no one  that he is said to have cured was ever  "sick" in the first place,  and no one was ever physical "dead" when he "raised " them either,    as in the case of Lazarus.

I believe, as you also seem to_ that we are only talking spiritually "sick" and spiritually "dead". The verse that you have quoted only makes sense if one is speaking spiritually and not literally physically dead or sick..

The same goes for the story of the lost "dead " son.  And the story of Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira.  No one just "dropped down dead" <<<, this was simply an excommunication and act of being sent back to live among "the dead".

Nice to know we have a common ground or appear to have. We will have to see how long that lasts.. 

But none of this is answering the absence of Jesus` multitude of followers that failed to show the slightest interest in supporting him?

And you somehow missed this>>

 
Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you,  a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
   

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#28
Stephen
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@Bringerofrain
Please see post #27 above.

 

#29
Bringerofrain
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@Stephen
So you don't have an answer. Then try this one. Why did he even  bother healing  a few lepers or curing anyone at all if  they were "already dead anyway"?   You see here again you have yourself highlighted one of those biblical anomalies that need answering. 
That was already explained. He was showing off. Performing miracles for others.


Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you,  a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
  
I think I already explained that. People will genuinely free a murderer over an unpopular political figure. If you gave liberals a national vote to either kill donald trump and free ted Kazynski, but r visa versa, they would kill Donald Trump. 

Who I would prefer is irrelevant. We are talking the madness of crowds. I would also assume they believed the healings were magic tricks with plants in the crowd. At the same time other messianic figures were walking around doing similar things. 






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#30
Stephen
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@Bringerofrain

Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you,  a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
  
Who I would prefer is irrelevant.
Never mind.