"The bible can't cause anything".

Author: Stephen

Posts

Read-only
Total: 81
Topic's author
#1
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

"The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything",#3  -  has to be the most ignorant, uneducated , backward thinking and thoughtless statement ever written on this forum.  Or  is the statement by the Reverend Tradsecrete , correct? 

And of all the "books" that this could have been said about, the author of that ridiculous statement was talking about one of - if not the - most influential "books" ever written.; the Bible which is full of words.  Indeed the Christ himself is called "The Word". When words are put together they become magic,  they cause/d people to do things , this is why the ancients called it  -SPELL - ING. And  for anyone that has studied the scriptures in any depth would know this fact.  

This is like saying  'words can't cause anyone to be hurt or disappointed or depressed, or happy or suicidal when they clearly can and  do .  Words on a internet forums & and other social media  have caused suicide rates around the world to  sky rocket caused by words.

Words in books have caused people to murder. John Lennon's murderer Mark Chapman said he killed John Lennon because the favourite character ever in a book he was reading - Holden Caulfied, would have killed John because he didn't like "phonies".

  Words can be formed into all kind of revealing sentences and paragraphed that tell us information that can or cannot be acted on and used for benevolent or malevolent purposes.   The Quran clearly  instructs  adherents to Islam to kill anyone not Muslim and it causes many  its followers to do just that, no matter how much the apologist want to deny this fact.
So it is a pretty much an established fact A book can and  does  "cause "  people to act,  or think, or believe, or learn.

 What is different then about the bible that we are told  "can't cause anything".  Well in truth it is worse than any novel or instruction manual ever written and to say that it can't cause anything, by a member of the clergy  is nothing short of profane"  How contradictory can one get or ever live to be!?

The bible instructs  people to kill, and these are not man made laws if the bible is to be believed, they are direct orders to  Christians written in a "BOOK",  a book whose words were "breathed into it"  by god.

Crimes and Punishment.


Adultery : Death

Homosexuality : Death

Working on Sunday : Death  

Cursing parents:  Death

Blasphemy : Death 
 
 These words in the book called the bible have caused death. 









#2
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
It says to kill people who work on the sabbath. That's Saturday Mr youtube education.
Topic's author
#3
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
It says to kill people who work on the sabbath.



Fair play.
I should have said the Sabbath. And not Sunday. Well spotted my little tonsured  friend.


Yes it does say kill someone for working to feed their kids and  to keep a roof over their fkn heads on this special day, doesn't it.

Tell me, why should I give everything I have to the "poor"? Like the  "book"  instructs.


I don't mind you nitpicking but at least attempt an answer to the OP. It  is the reason I started the thread.


#4
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
I asked my priest if I should go down to the gay bar and gun down all those filthy sinners.

Apparently, that would be very wrong to do.

What does that lead me to believe? You aren't getting the full picture.

Better to do what the church says, I say.




#5
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac



.
Mopac,


YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE # 5837274387!:  "I asked my priest if I should go down to the gay bar and gun down all those filthy sinners. Apparently, that would be very wrong to do."

You admit that your priest is as Bible ignorant as you are relative to the gunning down filthy sinners! 

Once again you slap the face of Jesus the Christ, in that you are to obey Jesus's word regarding Leviticus 20:13 no matter what the outcome becomes within your society today, BIBLE fool!

 “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) Get it?  



.





#6
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@BrotherDThomas
God also says not to murder. We are also supposed to honor the governing authorities as having been given their authority from God. If the governing authorities make vigilante fag burning unlawful, that makes such activities murder.

As you aren't in the church, you are not even Christian. You use scripture as the tempter of Christ did when he was in the desert.



#7
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac



.
Mopac,

YOUR INSIDIOUS QUOTE: "God also says not to murder."

Thank you for once again showing that the JUDEO-Christian Bible CONTRADICTS itself because Leviticus states with specificity that ALL gays are to be murdered, whereas their blood shall be upon them, understood? Do you want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect, Bible fool?


YOUR ADDITIONAL INSIDIOUS QUOTE: " We are also supposed to honor the governing authorities as having been given their authority from God."

Tell the membership, what part of this passage do you not understand in respect to your Satanic quote above: " “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.  (Acts 5:29) Get it? "  Are you vying to be more Bible ignorant than Tradesecret?


YOUR EMBARRASSING QUOTE THAT PROVES YOU'RE THE BIBLE FOOL:  "As you aren't in the church, you are not even Christian. You use scripture as the tempter of Christ did when he was in the desert."

LAME RESPONSE ONCE AGAIN!  What you fail to realize is that when I easily Bible Slap you Silly®️, I am more of a TRUE Christian than you will ever be!  Furthermore, how can I use scripture and allegedly tempt you like I do where you cannot address said Scripture and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath, which makes you a minion of Satan! 


You're excused for now, until you remove one foot to insert the other again like you did in saying the Bible contradicts itself, understood?



.

#8
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@BrotherDThomas
I don't take bible lessons from heretics.
Topic's author
#9
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
Let me show you how silly and childish your  post #4 above really is here Mopac.

Starting here; 
I asked my priest if I should go down to the gay bar and gun down all those filthy sinners.

But what does the bible instruct? 

And are homosexuals "filthy sinners" in your eyes?


Apparently, that would be very wrong to do.
Its not wrong  according to scripture though is it? 

Is that what your priest said or your own opinion? 

And why did you ever  believe that you needed to ask a Priest in the first place ?

What would you have done if The Church had  sanctioned your idea? 





What does that lead me to believe?

It leads me to believe ; That you are torn between what your Priest, your Church instructs and  what your God actually instructs.



Better to do what the church says, I say.

 I agree. So then do you not believe that parts of the bible should be exSPELLED?

 I will be  very interested in you answers. 





#10
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
My post was intended to be childish.

I wouldn't be calling anyone childish. The way you react when people don't respond as you look makes you look immature.

Topic's author
#11
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac

I wouldn't be calling anyone childish.

Answer the questions.  You forced these questions with you pointless and childish sarcasm. 

Did you see how easily and quick it back fired on you and made you look pathetic.

And did the bible cause you to be sarcastic and pointlessly childish. 

#12
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
The church doesn't teach to go around stoning people to death.

The fact that you want us to do so is very telling.
#13
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac


Mopac,

YOUR SATANIC QUOTE TO RUNAWAY FROM JESUS' BIBLICAL AXIOMS, LOL!!!!! :   "I don't take bible lessons from heretics."

OMG, can you get any more embarrassed than what you proposed towards me bringing forth THE DIRECT WORDS OF JESUS THE CHRIST, that you are now RUNNING AWAY FROM? No, you can not!  BLASPHEME!  Hello, and you want to call yourself a Christian? NOT! LOL!!!

When you state that you don't take Bible lessons from a heretic that has given you the DIRECT WORDS of Jesus the Christ, then you are basically calling Jesus a heretic!


The Bible fools like you within this forum is without bounds!



.
#14
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@BrotherDThomas
No, I'm calling you a heretic. One that I do not take bible lessons from.







Topic's author
#15
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
The fact that you want us to do so is very telling.

 More silliness. That is a disgraceful thing to say.

I have never and wouldn't advocated for such torment, torture or punishment.  But  the bible has , and your god does. 
#16
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
It was the law.

No room for drag queen storytime in those days. It was even a matter of survival.

The fact that laws here are so lenient on this issue certainly is a charity, because it would be no wrong thing if the government passed laws punishing adulterers and sodomites. 

Well, considering how down the slope society has already slid concerning sexual morality, it might be a tad merciless at this point. 

I certainly don't think punishing things like adultery is immoral. It is the case that the law in my country does not punish these things. So it is. I am not political. I am not tryjng to effect the law.

#17
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac


.
Mopac,

ONCE AGAIN, I AM GIVING YOU DIRECT WORDS FROM JESUS AND YOU ARE CALLING THEM AS HERETIC!!! Where do you get the authority to say that when I show you words from Jesus, that they are heretic?!

As if you showing the membership that the Bible contradicts itself wasn't enough in my post #7, then you step in poo AGAIN when you state that Jesus' words that I give you are heretic, when will your disparaging acts against Jesus ever end for the sake of your soul?!


You keep running away from these passages shown below that are the direct words of Jesus, like Tradesecret runs away, therefore, WHY?  

1. “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.  (Acts 5:29) 

2. Cite the biblical reference to you stating: "The laws in the bible that prescribe these punishments had to do with the secular government of the Hebrew people"

3. How do you feel when Jesus condones the killing of homosexuals? "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)


You can start with the above questions, where I have many more for you, okay?  PLEASE DON'T BE LIKE TRADESECRET AND RUN AWAY FROM DISCUSSING JESUS, OKAY?





.
#18
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@BrotherDThomas
You want to obey God?

Become Orthodox. Submit to the elders that have been appointed over us.

Otherwise, you are simply going by your own reasonings.
#19
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,204
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Arrrrrr,  Scripture.  
Tis brilliant. 

I've never meet a bloke who's ( not very good at translating scripture. ) 
Ain't no such thing as a,  ( " average " scripture decipher ra.  ) 

The second time you read the bible it becomes bloody obvious that God did it and left it behind for you. 

You have a certain querky way you do the scripts scripts and you are SPOT ON. 

A QUESTION FOR ALL. 
Who believes they are not in the ☆°▪•○▪°☆•     TOP 1000.   . •°⊙▪☆○•°☆▪ ¿¿¿?
 Of Scripture translating  ?

There has to be close to 3 billion theists in the 1000. 
Ya reckon ? 
 
Soooooooo the bible can't cause nothing. 
But ummmm ,  it's ultimately you. 

As the saying goes.  WHO COULD POSSIBLY GUESS WHAT IT IS THAT THEY MIGHT MAKE THEIR GOD TELL THEM NEXT ? 

Good game. 
Good game.  



#20
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,204
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Mopac
Submit to a elder.     

This in itself is again " Brilliant " .  ( for causing all kinds of mehyem ) 

Going on the fact #216 of ( Running a small business like your church )  .     You want old people in your church FULL STOP

Anddddd.  

The elders are good great people so shhhhhhhhhhh factor. 

Submit to a elder you say? 
That sounds like a half arsed " respect ya elders "  

I feel Moe Moe that if the was a big row of otherdoxies
And silly atheistical me, I'd get pushed in front of the bus. 
It's pure fire for the "  me v you mentality "  that YOUR religious group sparked.

No I mean. 

SUBMIT  TO  A  ELDER ?

Submit? 

Like just straight out submit ?  

Yeah I don't like it.  
THE MILKS SOUR.  And if the MILKS SOUR, I ain't the kinda pussy to drink it.  

Imagine this Moe Moe. 
The elder says one or two things out of the dozens and you do not agree with it ?
 


Fathom it. 




#21
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,204
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Actually I'm the cause for the me v you mentality.  
But still. 
Topic's author
#22
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Are you vying to be more Bible ignorant than Tradesecret?

He'd have to spend many years alone in his monk cell to become that ignorant.   As it stands, he only lasted a matter of days at his last go at being a cassocked, sandal wearing tonsured novice.
Topic's author
#23
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
 You want old people in your church FULL STOP

All  "churches" want old people in their churches. And I know why Deb.  Would  you like me me to tell you why?  I will  if you promise to keep it to yourself.
#24
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,204
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Because Jesus fucklng loves cashhhhhhh. 
Topic's author
#25
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
Because Jesus fucklng loves cashhhhhhh. 

And real estate.


"Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.” Luke 20:47.

Yes Deb,  vulnerable old people who have lost a loved one are the perfect target for the "church".   `' give me your house and you will see your husband/wife again!   I promise ' . 

 

#26
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,329
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Stephen
I dunno, it's an argument in similar vein as 'guns don't kill people.
And I get where you're coming from, but I don't think such logic is 'strictly wrong.
Hammer's for instance don't kill people, it's people who use them as warhammers in medieval era, or in fits of domestic insanity modern era.

If a person was 'reasonable, not hateful or of murderous faith, the Bible would not be dangerous I think.
If a person was 'reasonable, not hateful or of murderous faith, then patriotism to country would not be dangerous perhaps.
Topic's author
#27
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Lemming

If a person was 'reasonable, not hateful or of murderous faith, the Bible would not be dangerous I think.
If a person was 'reasonable, not hateful or of murderous faith, then patriotism to country would not be dangerous perhaps.



"IF".  But we actually do have evidence that books do carry influence and do cause people to act. And the Quran is a perfect example where its adherents  follow the commands of Allah and his so called prophet to the letter. There are strict instruction to kill the unbeliever until all the world and all religion is for Allah.

Quran8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.



To claim that "The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything",#3,   is thoughtless and the Lawyer Tradesecrete knows it is. And I believe if he could take that comment down I am sure he would, now the obvious has been pointed out to him . I believe he made the comment without thinking or consideration in his haste to defend his god and the scriptures. His god by his own admission is a  " jealous god of war", that has  encouraged war and slaughter and genocide. . . 

#28
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,329
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Stephen
Whether it's the atheistic French Cult of Reason murdering everyone, 5 September 1793.
Or
Deistic Catholics murdering Protestants, August 24, 1572.

Atheistic Humanists of 2020,
or
Theistic Christians of 2020.

Is it 'really the books, or is it the people, and how they've 'taken them?
The other aspects of their environment, culture, history?

Personally I believe that the Bible is capable of offering great good to a person.
I can understand your opinion on it's 'causing, but I also understand people of a different opinion, and what they're getting at.
If a society is determined to respect and accept homosexuals, would not the people interpret the Bible in a fashion relative to their society?

Courses I don't disagree that media has 'an effect on culture.
Just difficult to gauge maybe.

Dungeons and Dragons (Joke)

. . .

Maybe explicit music results in more likely people picking up swearing habit.
But maybe one doesn't 'follow the other.
Perfectlike I mean.

. . .

If Bible has 'influence on person considering genocide evil, can the Bible be attributed to have 'caused this.
If Bible has 'influence on person considering genocide good, can the Bible be attributed to have 'caused this.
Seems 'bit specific, bit 'too much weight resting on 'one variable of human experience.

Rambling to self,
Is it an active 'agent that's required for certain points of view?
By that I mean some people's perspective on something not 'causing something.
Ice on the road would 'cause crashes I suppose, but again, that's just from a certain perspective.
Not sure 'disagreement is occurring, different perspective maybe, different pages.
After all, I don't think a Bible can be compared in 'causing as some items, such as road ice, or a torch being thrown into an oil painted house. .
Some murderers 'claim certain songs 'caused them to murder,
Topic's author
#29
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,602
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Lemming




Personally I believe that the Bible is capable of offering great good to a person.
 That may be true. The bible can "cause" some people to do good or behave good.   I have said , words do influence in all kinds of magical ways. That is why the ancients called words  strung together Spell-ing.  see post #1 above. 

 The Egyptians didn't call their long almost poetic conversations with their gods,  prayers, they called them spells.  Their priest were called magicians. The Book of the Dead are all spells. A subject far too deep to even begin to explore here.

 To say flat out that  books do not "cause anything"   is serious backward thinking. And particularly when were are talking about a book the instructs its adherents that the sentence for working on the sabbath is also death. 


If a society is determined to respect and accept homosexuals, would not the people interpret the Bible in a fashion relative to their society?
 But does it. We can see mopac  for instance, like his god,  hates & despises homosexuals. He refers to them in all kinds of derogatory terms.  The bible is causing  Mopac to hate as it does many Christians. Why? Because his god does,  and his god calls homosexual practices an "abomination" worthy of the death penalty.

And I am sure that mopac has no qualms with this stance. It is only 21st century MAN MADE  common law that is stopping him punishing  homosexuals, not his contradictory  bible. 

His bible is clear : “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) .  Mopac   will tell you he will do what his church tells him to do. Its a good job his church defies its own god isn't it. 

These are just a sample of  Mopacs true feelings #16 Mopac
It was the law.

No room for drag queen storytime in those days. It was even a matter of survival.

The fact that laws here are so lenient on this issue certainly is a charity, because it would be no wrong thing if the government passed laws punishing adulterers and sodomites. 

Well, considering how down the slope society has already slid concerning sexual morality, it might be a tad merciless at this point. 




#50   Mopac  Christians  are not commanded to kill all the butt lovers. Don't worry, you are safe......for now.,,,,,,,,,,,Just to make it clear that I am not simply picking on those who wear leather assless chaps



#102 Mopac  Of course you choose to be homosexual. [,,,,,,,,,] It all started with consent to demons. [..............................] Your homosexuality is no more innate than addiction to crack.

And on he goes . On every thread that highlights god & homosexuality. Aren't we lucky Mopac tell us he is  "not a violent person" ?    Who knows what his bible may cause him to do and with his god approval too.


If Bible has 'influence on person considering genocide evil, can the Bible be attributed to have 'caused this.
In some cases it in not an impossibility. But the bible itself doesn't  consider genocide evil.  Mopac's God commits genocide at the drop of a hat. Christians will always attempt to justify their gods actions.

 We should be thankful for the reformation and thankful we live in the 21century where we have laws , common laws,  that are now set aside from religion.

To say books do not "cause anything" is absolute BS and for a statement like that to come from a person that deals in words for a living it is an absolute disgrace :

Iam a lawyer.  There you go [..............................]
Butin my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoralcare.  And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with properaccreditation.  I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defenceforces, a position I could not have without properqualifications. #20
And I am not surprised that  she has given this thread a wide berth.  It is a backward,  thoughtless  & irresponsible statement to make and defend. And she  knows it!


#30
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,329
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Stephen
Well, all I can say of the origin/root of the word 'spell, is that I have no knowledge or education about it.

To be fair, Tradesecret 'says in his post that you referenced, that it is a "Quick answer."
"People can look at a book, evaluate its ideas and add these to ideas they already have or don't have."
As he says,
Seems only fair to me that his words be judged in the context that he 'gave them.
An argument against the Bible being held as some eldritch object of negative power by atheists, as though it's some piece of theistic devilry only capable of harm upon homosexuals.
Besides, the argument stands in my mind, Guns Don't Kill People.
One can argue against that statement, but to do so is semantics, ignoring the idea in the statement.

As he says people can 'look, 'evaluate, 'add to ideas,
I simply don't think his use of the word 'cause, falls into the nuance you attack him for.

Stoics for instance like to assert that outside influences need not have power/influence/cause upon the Stoic,
That in how one chooses to fortify oneself, perceive the outside is what matters.

And again, I don't 'disagree with your interpretation of 'cause, I simply think there's other viewpoints, nuance to it as well.