If These Were Not Jesus' Own Contradictory Words....

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#1
Stephen
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.....then the who put them into the mouth of the Christ?

Equal then not equal

 John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".   

John 14:28  “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .

I judge then I don't judge 

John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.  By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".

John 8:15     " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.

John 12:47  " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.


I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.

John 8:14  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".

John 5:31   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

Man is not my witness. Man is my witness .

John 33-34   “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.

John 15:27  "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!"  is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all  from the same gospel. 

And if they are not in "CONTEXT!"  then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" . 


#2
FLRW
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@Stephen

Well, remember that Albert Einstein said that the Bible was a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.
#3
MisterChris
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#4
Stephen
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@MisterChris
 I created a thread on the subject of " context ". I opened it up with that clip.

Notice how quickly it was derailed by theist BS Here>>.   https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5171-context?page=1

I have no confidence in anyone addressing these contradictions from the Christ himself. ( of which there are more)  And if I have proven one single thing in all the time I have been a member here,  is that CHRISTIANS do not like discussing never mind being questioned and challenged on  these unreliable , contradictory and ambiguous half stories that make up these scriptures.

On the odd occasion they  do try,  but they almost immediately run into a brick wall of their own building.  Here is a good recent example of a theist setting himself up for a great fall in just one post>  #20  and here a few months ago>>#43.   




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#5
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So can the theist say if  or not that Jesus made these contradictory statements, #1  or were they words put into his mouth by the gospel writer that had forgot what he had wrote?





7 days later

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#6
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@FLRW
Well, remember that Albert Einstein said that the Bible was a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.

And I would wager even Einstein couldn't deny that those quotes above from the Christ are contradictory.#1



#7
Bringerofrain
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The bible also explains man and woman becoming one when they get married. It isn't literal. It just means a union. 
#8
Bringerofrain
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Stephen is a christian in disguise. There are actual contradictions in the bible but instead of pointing to actual contradictions he is focusing on contradictions that only exist based on issues with translation or with issues in how literally or figuratively jesus spoke in separate areas. Ask yourself why stephen would focus on non contradictions instead of the real ones showing different accounts of Jesus's birth for example. The only explanation is that he is a christian trying to make atheists look dumb.
#9
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw
@Bringerofrain


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Bringerofrain,

We want to thank you in laughably disappearing from the thread entitled "How Does Jesus Expect To Get Away With Blatant Lies...." subsequent to my posts to you as shown below in showing that your inept Biblical knowledge is equal to fauxlaw's, which is hard to do, but you accomplished this fact with ease! LOL!


See, you're learning, even though it is at your flustering expense in front of the membership, and Jesus too! (Hebrews 4:13)

NEXT INSIPID BIBLE FOOL EQUAL TO BRINGEROFRAIN WILL BE ...?



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#10
BrotherDThomas
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@Bringerofrain



Bringerofrain, 

YOUR BLATHERING POST #6 WHICH IS AN IRRELATIVE QUOTE IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER: "The bible also explains man and woman becoming one when they get married. It isn't literal. It just means a union."

Tell the membership, subsequent to removing the proverbial egg from your face again, in how your statement above is relative to the following 2 contradicting passages:

JESUS SAID:  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going." (John 8:14)
JESUS SAID:   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true." (John 5:31)

Now, are you going to address this post, or are you going to RUN AWAY from it like you have done before regarding my posts directed to you? SCARED AGAIN?

The membership is watching, BEGIN:



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#11
Bringerofrain
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@BrotherDThomas
I was referring only to the first contradiction stephen pointed to. 
#12
Bringerofrain
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I assume the second one means more like 

Statements about yourself mean dick to anyone. And the first one means my statements are true fuck what anyone else thinks. Jesus didn't speak too literally

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#13
Stephen
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@Bringerofrain
Stephen is a christian in disguise.

I was christened at birth , I have admitted it many times. I am  not a practicing Christian and never have been.  I don't believe the scriptures as they have come down to us. 



There are actual contradictions in the bible but instead of pointing to actual contradictions he is focusing on contradictions that only exist based on issues with translation..


That makes no sense. You say I focus on contradictions and then say I don't focus on  "actual contradictions". Where I come from a contradiction is what it is, a contradiction.


or with issues in how literally or figuratively jesus spoke in separate areas.

Well it is refreshing to know that you have now  volunteered to pinpoint  for us in those contradictory verses that I have highlighted above at post #1 ..... where it is that  Jesus is speaking "figuratively"  and where Jesus is speaking  "literally" and without them contradicting one another?

And then explain to us  how you know?  


Ask yourself why stephen would focus on non contradictions

Where have I highlighted and focused on a "non contradiction"?


instead of the real ones showing different accounts of Jesus's birth for example.

Well besides the fact that the birth accounts  contradiction has been debated to death over hundreds of years, I have raised the matter of the contradictory bloodlines myself on a few threads. 

There is at least ten year difference between Mathews account and that of Luke's account. And the bloodlines contradict on another.  If you would like to straighten that little contradiction out for us on a thread of your own? Please feel free.  But a better question concerning the point that you raised would be to ask,  as once  I did : 

-  why it is that  neither Mark and John make no mention of Jesus’ bloodline at all?.   But please do so on YOUR OWN thread - 


As it is , this thread, my thread,  is all to do with Jesus contradicting himself SEE post #1



The only explanation is that he is a christian trying to make atheists look dumb.

You couldn't be more wrong. Atheists seem to appear to be more knowledgeable of the scriptures than most theist I have  met.

Now, I created this thread not to discuss me. I created it to discuss Jesus' own contradictions as shown above and if or not they were indeed Jesus' own words  or have the gospel writers put words into his mouth?

If you don't know, just say so. And anything that YOU believe  that  I  "should be" discussing, can I suggest AGAIN that you discuss them  on a thread of your own creation and not on my thread . Or don't you have a mind of your own?
 





#14
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw
@Bringerofrain



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Bringerofrain,

YOUR QUOTE RELATIVE TO THE ORDER OF STEPHENS BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS:  "I was referring only to the first contradiction stephen pointed to. "

Great, at least you stated that the first on Stephens list was a contradiction!  Now, regarding the third statement where Jesus says that if He testifies on His own behalf, it is valid. Then when Jesus states if He testifies about Himself, it is not true or valid. In this particular case, is this a blatant contradiction as well?

JESUS SAID:  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going." (John 8:14)
JESUS SAID:   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true." (John 5:31)


Your silence to my post #9 shown below gives credence to the fact that you agree that you are as Biblically stupid as fauxlaw. The membership thanks you for your admittance and will use it in addressing your future inept posts. 


NEXT?


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#15
Bringerofrain
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@BrotherDThomas
I clearly meant it was a seeming contradiction but easily shown not to be for anybody with an IQ higher than gorilla
#16
BrotherDThomas
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@fauxlaw
@Bringerofrain



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Bringerofrain,

YOUR ONCE AGAIN RUNAWAY QUOTE:  "I clearly meant it was a seeming contradiction but easily shown not to be for anybody with an IQ higher than gorilla"

You "seemingly" thought  it was a contradiction, but easily shown not to be if you had a IQ level higher than a gorilla?  Therefore, put your big boy pants on and tell us why the following Jesus statements are NOT a contradiction:

JESUS SAID:  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going." (John 8:14)
JESUS SAID:   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true." (John 5:31)

Furthermore, you agreed that you are as dumbfounded of the Bible as fauxlaw is in being silent to my post #9 and #14, therefore you are starting with 2 strikes to begin with.

BEGIN:
#17
Bringerofrain
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@BrotherDThomas
I never made a claim as to whether the specific passages you provided are contradictions. It's odd that somebody who criticized me for thinking that translations of the bible are not flawless, is now giving me shit for pointing out that not everything stephen listed as a contradiction is one, by pointing out the obvious in context meanings. 

Is this like a game. We have brother thomas pretending to be a theist to make theists look dumb and Steven pretending to be an atheist to make atheists look dumb. 

Is anyone just willing to have an honest discussion in the religion section without trolling?

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#18
Stephen
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@Bringerofrain
Is anyone just willing to have an honest discussion in the religion section without trolling?

Yes there is. But it appears that you are not one of them . In fact I created a whole thread dedicated to the very  fact that CHRISTIANS want to discuss anything but the scriptures. Here>>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4309-they-want-to-discuss-anything-but-the-bible

I have created nearly 90 threads about religious matters including biblical contradictions, biblical characters and many of the bible stories.  See my profile HERE and pick one>> https://www.debateart.com/participants/Stephen/forum_topics     How many have you started? 

You joined this forum just 7 days ago. You have authored two threads. One concerning killing a cat and the other asking others to find a picture on the WWW!!! of Spartacus for you.   Now that really is discussing religion isn't it. 

There is nothing stopping you starting a thread of your own on any aspect of GOD, JESUS, or the BIBLE, is there?


I never made a claim as to whether the specific passages you provided are contradictions.

But I am. I have highlighted what I consider to be contradictions by Jesus himself and ask a question.  But you have ignored it just like you all do when confronted with these biblical dilemmas.  You have done what all theist do when these anomalous and ambiguous scriptures are highlighted and you are stuck for answerers so you,  instead of addressing the content, you choose to attack.  And here you are having the brass bollocks to accuse me of not  " wanting a discuss in the religion section"..   It is very rare I wonder from the religion forum!


 by pointing out the obvious in context meanings. 

 But you haven't done that have you. Read post #13 again and try to address what is written.

or with issues in how literally or figuratively jesus spoke in separate areas.

Well it is refreshing to know that you have now  volunteered to pinpoint  for us in those contradictory verses that I have highlighted above at post #1 ..... where it is that  Jesus is speaking "figuratively"  and where Jesus is speaking  "literally" and without them contradicting one another?

And then explain to us  how you know? 



I  look forward to your own thread on any subject of the scriptures you wish to discuss.  I imagine you are working on such a thread of your own right now aren't you? If not, why not? 




#19
Polytheist-Witch
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Not sure I would take what someone said Jesus said as fact. Jesus could read and write to be a Rabbi. He should have wrote it down himself. 
#20
BrotherDThomas
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@Bringerofrain



Bringerofrain,

YOUR QUOTE, BARRING YOUR SYNTACTIC MISUSE OF THE WORD SEEMING BY NOT USING ITS ADVERB FORM: "I clearly meant it was a seeming contradiction but easily shown not to be for anybody with an IQ higher than gorilla""

You have been RUNNING AWAY in showing that said verses below are not contradictions as you stated above, therefore, FOR THE FORTH TIME, therefore show us that you have at least an IQ higher than a gorilla and follow through and tell the membership in why the following passages stated by Jesus are NOT contradictions:

JESUS SAID:  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going." (John 8:14)
JESUS SAID:   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true." (John 5:31)

Listen, as shown thus far, your runaway tactics within is forum may have worked in a Children's Religion Forum that you obviously attended, but will not work within DEBATEART Religion Forum, you will NOT embarrass this prestigious forum with your bereft antics of running away from godly propositions posed to you, do you understand?  This is a religion discussion forum, and is NOT a running away from religion discussion forum, GET IT?



YOUR MISINFORMATION QUOTE: "It's odd that somebody who criticized me for thinking that translations of the bible are not flawless, ...."

Your reading comprehension, or lack thereof, goes severely wanting.  I DID NOT say that translations of the Bible are not flawless, but rather, they are flawless as the Bible so states (Proverbs 30:5). This is because what is shown within the scriptures in their final written form are all inspired words from Jesus the Christ, and to say otherwise is calling Jesus a LIAR! Get it Bible fool? Huh? Maybe?   Get a grade school 2nd grader to help you understand the following link, okay? Thank you.


NEXT BIBLICAL FOOL EQUAL TO BRINGEROFRAIN, WILL BE ..."


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#21
BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5
@Stephen
@Bringerofrain



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Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE TO THE BRINGEROFRAIN THAT ADMITS HE IS AS DUMBFOUNDED OF THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE AS FAUXLAW IS: "There is nothing stopping you starting a thread of your own on any aspect of GOD, JESUS, or the BIBLE, is there?"

What would be comically entertaining to the membership, is if Bringerofrain actually had the audacity to bring forth a thread upon his belief in Hermeticism! ROFLOL!  OMG, this would be a show stopper for sure where we would have to get the crying in laughter towels out post haste!  But, as shown before by inept followers of mystical religions, poor ol' Bringerofrain probably doesn't have the nerve to bring out a thread upon this laughable  belief. Whats new in this respect? Nothing!

On a side note, I can't wait until ethang5 comes back, and this is because Jesus informed me in prayer of a true fact about this Bible fool that will go undaunted by me in his embarrassing behalf!  


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#22
EtrnlVw
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@Bringerofrain
Is this like a game. We have brother thomas pretending to be a theist to make theists look dumb and Steven pretending to be an atheist to make atheists look dumb.

LOL, well it's either that or they really are dumb. Either way they're dumb.

Is anyone just willing to have an honest discussion in the religion section without trolling?

Maybe, but while these two monkeys play with themselves all over the religion forum I'd rather wait until some intelligent people begin to post. It doesn't appear we're lucky enough that they would bore themselves to death. I'm not sure what is worse, Stephens severe reading comprehension issues, or Brothers super annoying writing template.

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#23
Stephen
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Either address the OP or leave the thread .  What you think of me is irreverent.