Jesus Tempted Was The Devil

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Jesus tempter was the Devil we are told.

Mathew4:1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Right off the bat this story falls apart if it is to be taken literally?Because immediately the “devil” begins his test by saying;

4:3“If you are the Son of God.” [?]command that these stones be made bread”.
When that didn’t go down as the devil thought it might, he had another go:
4:6 “If thou be the Son of God” [?] cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee”….
When this didn’t appear to bare fruit, the devil changed tactics by trying a bribe.
Mathew4: 8 Again,the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”.

IF!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.

It should be noticed too that, just like there was no witness to the conversation between Pilate and Jesus, or Nicodemus and Jesus, here too there wasn’t a single witness to this meeting in the desert, so how do the gospel writers know what was said? I do hope the Christians here will explain that for us?


Anyway,Jesus, you may not be surprised, refused the bribe and passed the test! And why wouldn’t he have? He was god and the son of god also wasn’t he, and everybody knew it didn’t they………. accept the devil it seems.

So how come that old devil Satan didn’t even recognise god when he seen him!?

After all, didn’t he exist with all the other heavenly beings even before mankind?      Doesn’t Luke's gospel speak of Satan falling from that heavenly abode? Luke 10:18

Didn't god once tell Satan to his face that he would be on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days? Genesis3:14
We know too that the devil had wagered face to face with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7. (Christians have never explained how it came pass that Satan came to be “walking here and there”, roaming around the earth.” after being sentenced to crawl and eat dirt for ever?)

How is it that the “demon” calling himself legion recognised god/son of god and Satan didn’t?   “He shouted at the top of his voice,“What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Mark5:7

It appears that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.




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@Stephen
Very, very good question and here I must remind people of a secret link between characters.

Satan is God of OT, the Devil.

Lucifer is NOT the devil, he is Jesus. Both Lucifer and Jesus are sons of God anyway.

Read it carefully.

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Well we , in the past,  have done that particular issue and then you blocked me.

So I would rather you didn't post on my threads especially when you have the audacity to still have me blocked. Here is a reminder>>


about 8 months ago you created a whole thread dedicated to me, Titled: 

Stephen has stolen my idea that Lucifer is Jesus. I am here to reclaim it.

and after you then apologised to me after accusing me of plagiarism #41, I accepted your apology and gave you a thumbs up for it.  Then you  blocked me. #42 

So why you would want anything to do with me is incomprehensible to me.  But you won't be the first to partake in this cowardly practice, I can assure you. It has even rubbed off on me, to my own disgust.


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Snakes were punished not Satan. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
That's right Polly.  A speaking snake/serpent that wasn't on it belly when it seduced and deceived Eve.  
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@Stephen
Snakes being punished is bs anyway. Satan has to ask to do anything per Job. It's still God letting things happen then punishing someone for his decision for show.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@Stephen
I feel that I must remind you, that in the ancient encyclopedica biblicae, the serpent is a penis metaphor....And the juicy fruit is another metaphor.



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> Stephen

IF!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.
No, that is not demonstrative of Satan not knowing who Jesus was, that is Satan attempting to plant doubt in Jesus that he was who he was. He said it twice to emphasize his effort of planting doubt. The interrupt in the whole affair was that at any time, Jesus could have succumbed to Satan, and would have therefore been the greatest failure in the history of man. Jesus was not perfect because he had no other choice; he was perfect because he chose to be perfect among all other choices.  He, like all of us, had free agency. He was better at it than the rest of us.

The temptation was not that Jesus could not turn stones into bread, but that Jesus would perform that service for his own benefit, which was not his mission. The same temptation was really repeated thrice: to serve Jesus, himself, rather than mankind. 

You are evidence that one can read while lacking full comprehension. As it happens, I've read the entire Bible on seven occasions, I believe [not sure anymore], and I'm still learning new things. When one has not read it completely at all, how can one expect full comprehension? Read, and read again, and then be critical if that's your schtick. But to be critical in ignorance is, well, it is just  that.
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@zedvictor4
Good for you. 
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@Stephen
@fauxlaw
F!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.
No, that is not demonstrative of Satan not knowing who Jesus was, that is Satan attempting to plant doubt in Jesus that he was who he was. 
I interpret it more as a challenge, similar to when someone makes fun of you for being unable to do something. 
"Well, IF you're so smart, why don't you do it yourself?"
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@Polytheist-Witch
I wasn't joking.
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@zedvictor4
 the serpent is a penis metaphor

Indeed Vic.  Do you recall our conversation on the matter of "knowing"  here #14



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@K_Michael
I interpret it more as a challenge, similar to when someone makes fun of you for being unable to do something. 

"Well, IF you're so smart, why don't you do it yourself?"

But that is the reverse of what I am saying. Jesus didn't ask Satan to prove who he/Jesus was for  himself.  Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?

And who was Satan to demand proof from God?

Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway? 

It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?  

And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN  as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity?????? 


This is why I say that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.

It is plane as day that for anyone that has read the scriptures for themselves knows, that Jesus' replies came straight from;

 Deuteronomy8:3
Deuteronomy6:16
Deuteronomy6:13

But then Mathew did love his trusty Old Testament,he was always so desperate to tie the OT prophecies to Jesus.


And I notice no one has been able to explain how anyone  knew what was spoken out there in the "wilderness" between these two.

Is all you have shown here K_Michael, is that this ridiculous story is open to all kinds of interpretation.

I don't suppose that you will address those questions above will you?




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@fauxlaw
But to be critical in ignorance is, well, it is just  that.

Never mind your veiled slights against me. They don't answer the questions posed. 

here :

Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?

And who was Satan to demand proof from God?

Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway? 

It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed it, why?  

And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN  as he was doing in the sad story of Job ( Job 1:6) after being sentenced thousands of years before to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity, for deceiving and corrupting mankind(Genesis 3:14), how can this be?


And I notice that you've haven't explained how anyone  knew what was spoken out there in the "wilderness" between these two?



 I've read the entire Bible on seven occasions, 
Well I suggest that you keep reading it. Meanwhile try answering the questions above.  Implying that I am ignorant and unread and uneducated will not win you an argument and doesn't answer the questions.
Off you go.

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One day they will tell the truth of satan not being lucifer.
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@Stephen
Jesus didn't ask Satan to prove who he/Jesus was for  himself.  Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?
I didn't say Jesus asked Satan to prove something. I agree that Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was, as a challenge, to goad him into misusing his power, not because he didn't already know that Jesus was the Messiah.

And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Satan doesn't talk to God in this passage, he talks to Jesus. Why Jesus allowed him to, I don't know, because the scripture isn't written in the first person.

Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway? 
Matthew 4:1 Joseph Smith Translation: "Then Jesus was led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to be with God."

Jesus also visits a mountaintop, which is a common practice for prophets seeking to be closer with God (See Moses, Elijah, Muhammed, and Jesus once again at the Mount of Olives.)

The mountain has clear theological symbolism. Almost every religion uses the same imagery. A mountaintop is far from the everyday mundane life, and higher up, closer to the heavens. Native Americans would travel to mountaintops to receive guidance, the Ancient Greeks called Mount Olympus, the tallest mountain in Greece, the home of the gods.

I am an atheist, but from a symbolic perspective, Jesus visiting a mountaintop makes perfect sense.
It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?
Satan, the Father of Deceit, was trying to trick Jesus into thinking that he needed approval.

And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN  as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity?????? 
This is not a question.
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@K_Michael
"Well, IF you're so smart, why don't you do it yourself?"
And that is my entire point. Satan challenged Jesus to perform a supernatural act [conversion of stone to bread] to serve himself, which was not his mission.
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> Stephen

Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?

And who was Satan to demand proof from God?

Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway? 

It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed it, why?  
1. Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was by challenging Jesus to be of self-service; to satisfy his own hunger by the use of his priesthood power to convert stones to bread. To satisfy personal greed. But that act would be contrary to his mission to be of service to others. That is why he was willing to convert water to wine for a wedding feast in which it was apparent that Mary, his mother, was a family friend and assistant in the feast. Though his mission had not yet begun, he was constrained by his mother, who knew he could do it, to provide more wine for the feast. The best wine of the feast, as it turned out. That was service to others. When you are in service to your fellow beings, you are in service to God.

2. Indeed, who was Satan? He was a son of God [the son of the morning] in the spirit, who spoiled his own chance to obtain a physical body as was intended, and which, by his first estate obedience, in the spirit, was the intent all along by the plan of God. That Satan disobeyed, and rebelled, he was banished forever of having a physical body. You will note that once having a physical body, the truth is, as did Jesus, we will all resurrect with a physical, perfected body. Where we go from that point is all determined by the lives we lead on Earth; some to heaven, which has a variety of kingdoms of glory, and some to hell; i.e., withdrawn from the presence of God. Satan and his current minions, plus all who a seriously in defiance of God, will inhabit hell.

3. Who says that was the only experience of Jesus being tempted by Satan, as if it was such a special and unique experience for him? We are all tempted by Satan. That Jesus was better at it than are we was the point. In order to become the Savior of the world, his was intended to be a perfectly lived life, such that a complete innocent wold be sacrificed for the sins of the world. He was tempted during his entire life. Do you think Satan was off somewhere playing golf when Jesus was in Gethsemane, and on the cross? When Jesus was performing the very acts that would banish Satan from him, and all of us [that is, if we are faithful in our acknowledgement of the atonement of Christ, and if we are not, are of the minions of Satan] forever more? No. That was the entire mission of Jesus Christ, to act by sacrifice for all of us. We are tempted our entire lives. So was Jesus, and his actions, as ours, were entirely by his choice to do. Free agency is the gift of God; the greatest after giving us life and the atonement.

4. God did not and does not need Satan's approval. In fact, quite the opposite. It would have been better for Satan, in the long run, to have approved of God rather than combat him and try to usurp him.
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@fauxlaw

.
Fauxlaw, the runaway from biblical axioms, and the contender in being the #1 Bible fool upon this forum,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE REGARDING YOUR DEMISE IN YOUR POST #18: "Where we go from that point is all determined by the lives we lead on Earth; some to heaven, which has a variety of kingdoms of glory, and some to hell; i.e., withdrawn from the presence of God. Satan and his current minions, plus all who a seriously in defiance of God, will inhabit hell."

Since you have called Jesus a LIAR in being in defiance of our serial killer Jesus as you proffered in your quote above, and in not accepting Jesus' true words as shown in the link below even through Greek translations, therefore calling Jesus a LIAR, you have committed the Unpardonable Sin! Therefore, you are destined for the fiery sulfur lakes of  Hell upon your earthly demise. You are the last pseudo-christian that should be preaching to any other pseudo-christian upon this forum, understood flustering Bible fool?  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5681-how-does-jesus-expect-to-get-away-with-blatant-lies?page=2&post_number=39


Furthermore, show respect to Jesus as being the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, where you should use His name of "Jesus," instead of a title of "God" because it differentiates Jesus from the God Allah and Yahweh of the Jewish faith, understood pseudo-christian fool?

As I have stated before, your explicit Bible ignorance has no bounds!

NEXT BIBLE IGNORANT FOOL EQUAL TO FAUXLAW WILL BE ...?


.





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Stephen
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And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Satan doesn't talk to God in this passage, he talks to Jesus. Why Jesus allowed him to, I don't know [......................] the scripture isn't written in the first person.

I didn't ask that. And you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god (  "and the word was god"John 1).  But that doesn't answer the question.

How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come? 





And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Matthew 4:1 Joseph Smith Translation: "Then Jesus was led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to be with God."
AND  Matthew 4:1 doesn't give "god" a mention but simply states:   

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (NIV)
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.(ESV)
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.(ISV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.  (KJV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.(AKJV)
4 Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by Satan. (TLB)

Need I go on?  As can clearly be seen, the reason given is   "to be tempted by Satan". 

Not mention  of "to be with God" . . So it looks like  Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation.      By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak  ancient Greek?  

Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god?  If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless   of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place? 



I am an atheist, but from a symbolic perspective, Jesus visiting a mountaintop makes perfect sense.
It is irrelevant to the thread what you are or believe.  But you are clinging to Joseph Smiths' translation that suggest Jesus went into the wilderness to go up a mountain "to be near to god" . When all other translations tell us clearly that the devil took Jesus up the mountain and an " exceedingly high one" at that!

Matthew 4: 8   Again, the devil took Him up onto an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.
 
and the reason given was to attempt to bribe Jesus. See for yourself>>.

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.



It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?
Satan, the Father of Deceit, was trying to trick Jesus into thinking that he needed approval.

I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that  Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .



And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN  as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity?????? 
This is not a question.

Well it is. And I will explain why.

Satan  "  that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world" (Revelation 12:9) , was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of eternity.  Genesis 3:14


But when we read the sad story of Job we find " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan"  just leisurely wondering around the earth and making bets with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children.  Job1:6-7.

And again  in this instance, we see , " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan"  just going about leisurely doing  his thing and taking Jesus up exceedingly high mountains and to the roof  top of the temple  and tempting him and offering bribes. 

Can you  explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14)  can be found years later just strolling around the earth,  "going to a fro",   making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children,  then years later still,  is able to be  tempting Jesus the son god? 

And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?






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Stephen
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@fauxlaw
Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?

And who was Satan to demand proof from God?

Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway? 

It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed it, why?  
1. Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was by challenging Jesus to be of self-service; to satisfy his own hunger by the use of his priesthood power to convert stones to bread.

Yes I read the challenge. But it, and YOU makes no sense whatsoever when we are supposed to be talking about a god/son of a god? You make it clear above that this wasn't that Satan didn't know who he was, but  that the reason was " to plant doubt in the mind of Jesus that he was who he was"  #8 . Do you not realise how ridiculous your made up interpretation of the whole event comes across? 

You are telling us that Jesus may have been open to doubting himself of who he was? Didn't his mother and father ever tell him the story of his immaculate conception? Didn't  his mother tell of how god had come into her as a virgin?

Had Jesus forgotten so quickly and so soon after his baptism the dove and the voice of his father /god saying: 

17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”Matthew 3:17????

Hadn't  his cousin  " the greatest prophet that ever lived " told Jesus who the chosen one was? 


Is there a single piece of evidence that Jesus doubted or was open to doubting himself or had the slightest reason as to doubt who he was.? All the evidence say NO! There is absolutely no reason for Jesus to have gone to Satan " to be tempted" . 




2. Indeed, who was Satan? He was a son of God [the son of the morning] in the spirit,

Yes I know his biography very well.  It doesn't answer the question.


3. Who says that was the only experience of Jesus being tempted by Satan, as if it was such a special and unique experience for him?

 I don't know, who says that?  But I did ask :  Can you  explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14)  can be found years later just strolling around the earth,  "going to a fro",   making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children,  then years later still,  is able to be  tempting Jesus the son god? 

And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?




4. God did not and does not need Satan's approval.

Yet we have  this ridiculous story about tempting him/Jesus.  If Jesus was never going to fail this test then there was absolute no point to it at all, was there?

Your explanations fall into the realm of complete and utter invented garbage in an attempt to explain away a story that probably didn't happen at all in the way it has been presented by the gospel authors. 

Must try harder.




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Stephen
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@K_Michael
I have had to repost this comment as I didn't  address it to the intended addressee, K_Michael ;#20




And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Satan doesn't talk to God in this passage, he talks to Jesus. Why Jesus allowed him to, I don't know [......................] the scripture isn't written in the first person.

I didn't ask that. And you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god (  "and the word was god"John 1).  But that doesn't answer the question.

How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come? 





And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Matthew 4:1 Joseph Smith Translation: "Then Jesus was led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to be with God."
AND  Matthew 4:1 doesn't give "god" a mention but simply states:   

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (NIV)
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.(ESV)
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.(ISV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.  (KJV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.(AKJV)
4 Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by Satan. (TLB)

Need I go on?  As can clearly be seen, the reason given is   "to be tempted by Satan". 

Not mention  of "to be with God" . . So it looks like  Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation.      By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak  ancient Greek?  

Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god?  If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless   of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place? 



I am an atheist, but from a symbolic perspective, Jesus visiting a mountaintop makes perfect sense.
It is irrelevant to the thread what you are or believe.  But you are clinging to Joseph Smiths' translation that suggest Jesus went into the wilderness to go up a mountain "to be near to god" . When all other translations tell us clearly that the devil took Jesus up the mountain and an " exceedingly high one" at that!

Matthew 4: 8   Again, the devil took Him up onto an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.
 
and the reason given was to attempt to bribe Jesus. See for yourself>>.

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.



It appears  that god needed Satan's  approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?
Satan, the Father of Deceit, was trying to trick Jesus into thinking that he needed approval.

I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that  Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .



And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN  as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity?????? 
This is not a question.

Well it is. And I will explain why.

Satan  "  that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world" (Revelation 12:9) , was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of eternity.  Genesis 3:14


But when we read the sad story of Job we find " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan"  just leisurely wondering around the earth and making bets with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children.  Job1:6-7.

And again  in this instance, we see , " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan"  just going about leisurely doing  his thing and taking Jesus up exceedingly high mountains and to the roof  top of the temple  and tempting him and offering bribes. 

Can you  explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14)  can be found years later just strolling around the earth,  "going to a fro",   making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children,  then years later still,  is able to be  tempting Jesus the son god? 

And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?







#23
K_Michael
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@Stephen
you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god
and yet you also say that
Satan ... was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly
If Jesus was not around when Satan was sentenced to crawl on his belly, then he could not have been the God who sentenced him, and the Bible only allows one God. Point: me. Jesus is (as described in the Bible) the Messiah, a Son of God who perfectly served his will.

How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come? 
Simple. He doesn't have authority. Why would he need to tempt Jesus if he had any authority over him? He was in a position to do so because, as most translations insist, "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." (Matt 4:1 NIV) the Spirit put Jesus in a position where he could be tempted.

it looks like  Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation. 
Christianity is outnumbered. I merely wanted to point out that there are technically other interpretations than yours.

By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak  ancient Greek?  
That hardly matters, as the original biblical texts were largely written in Hebrew and Aramaic as well. Ancient (or Koine) Greek reads almost the same as modern Greek, so that one would be the easiest for Joseph Smith to learn.

Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god?  If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless   of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place? 

Jesus is the Son of God. He did this the same reason he was baptized, to set an example of a holy life. 

I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that  Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .

The devil has never had to tempt a perfect person before. These would likely be very tempting offers, enough to break nearly anyone. It didn't matter if Satan believed that he could do it. He was desperate to foil God's plan to save humanity. He had to try, even if it wasn't likely to work.

 how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?

The same way the Apostles wrote of Jesus' birth. They were told about it (in this case by Jesus) and wrote it down. Or you can admit that the Bible is false, in which case I win.
#24
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@zedvictor4
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@Polytheist-Witch
A person of few words.
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#26
Stephen
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@K_Michael
you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god
and yet you also say that
Satan ... was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly
If Jesus was not around when Satan was sentenced to crawl on his belly, then he could not have been the God who sentenced him, and the Bible only allows one God. Point: me. Jesus is (as described in the Bible) the Messiah, a Son of God who perfectly served his will.

(a)Oh I  agree. Its certainly a dilemma for the Christian that believes  that which Jesus says of himself  "  I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" (Revelation 22:13).    And also believes that Jesus is the "Word"and was with god and the Word was god"?   But all the same, Satan also was at the beginning, and the scriptures say that he was punished for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14)  I would agree too that it is all very convoluted to say the least.

(b)And we are still left with " Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place, by anyone?  the scriptures are not even clear about what he was being tested on, are they? 

(c) this still doesn't explain how Satan is found just walking about, making bets, killing children with gods blessing and Q& A- ing the son of god after being  sentence to eating dirt on his belly for eternity, at any time after, does it? 


How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come? 
Simple. He doesn't have authority. Why would he need to tempt Jesus if he had any authority over him?

Well then Satan thought very highly of himself didn't he. What ever caused him to believe that he  was in a position to tempt the son of god, I wonder?  You do say that Satan knew he was the son of god.


He was in a position to do so because, as most translations insist, "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." (Matt 4:1 NIV) the Spirit put Jesus in a position where he could be tempted.
I notice  that have dumped the Joseph Smith translation.  But that doesn't explain why?  Why did the sinless , immaculately conceived and born of a pure virgin, Jesus - son of god -  need to be tempted by anyone let alone the devil?    This is why the story make absolutely no sense if we are to take it literally. 

I said earlier that this is Matthew yet again attempting to tie Jesus to the Old Testament because all of the responses Jesus is said to have given are straight out of :
 Deuteronomy8:3
Deuteronomy6:16
Deuteronomy6:13



it looks like  Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation. 
Christianity is outnumbered. I merely wanted to point out that there are technically other interpretations than yours.

But those interpretations aren't mine.   They are the in interpretation of all  the  Christian bible,  with the exception of Joseph Smith`s interpretation. 



By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak  ancient Greek?  
That hardly matters, as the original biblical texts were largely written in Hebrew and Aramaic as well. Ancient (or Koine) Greek reads almost the same as modern Greek, so that one would be the easiest for Joseph Smith to learn.
Then you have another argument on your hands. As there are those here that insist and are adamant that one needs to understand the ancient Greek language to be able to understand the bible. I don't agree .


Ancient (or Koine) Greek reads almost the same as modern Greek
I agree, to my own knowledge,  there is hardly a difference.  For example, when Jesus in the bible uses the word "secret"  it cannot mean anything else can it?  And when  bible says :  John 19:38  " Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly "    doesn't it mean what it says, that Jesus met someone in secret? 

What about the use of the word "secret"  in this verse>> John 7:8-10  "However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret". <<<  does that mean Jesus did something in secret or does it mean something entirely different? 


Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god?  If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless   of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place? 

Jesus is the Son of God. He did this the same reason he was baptized, to set an example of a holy life. 

That makes no sense.  Set an example to whom?  Didn't Jesus understand his own status or his own pedigree as being the son of a perfect and faultless god? 



I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that  Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .

The devil has never had to tempt a perfect person before. These would likely be very tempting offers, enough to break nearly anyone. It didn't matter if Satan believed that he could do it. He was desperate to foil God's plan to save humanity. He had to try, even if it wasn't likely to work.

Well that is just utter nonsense. You cannot prove a single word of that and there is absolutely nothing in the Christian scriptures that can support what you say..    But what the bible does say and  what you are forgetting is that Satan couldn't even break the  loyalty of god's mere human servant, Job?  Didn't Satan learn nothing? 

The whole story is nonsense. There is absolutely no reason for this episode except maybe for Jesus to show his knowledge of the scriptures that qualified him to be a priest?  And if that was the case, then we may found  a real reason behind the "test". 


 how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?

The same way the Apostles wrote of Jesus' birth. They were told about it (in this case by Jesus) and wrote it down.
And your evidence for that comes from where? 


Or you can admit that the Bible is false, in which case I win.

 I have no problems at all saying,  and have never hidden the fact  that I believe the bible - and the New Testament in particular - to be  ambiguous and full of contradictory half stories about a real human man that has been swaddled in Myth, Magic and Miracles.

I believe the greatest disservice Christians did to themselves was to adopt an ancient god that they understood absolutely nothing about, from a time that they understood absolutely nothing about,  from a culture that they understood absolutely nothing about.   And this is why we have problems as shown at (a) (b) & (c) above.

What is it that  Jesus is supposed  to said about the impossibility of trying to serve two masters?  Well the same applies here where Christians are trying to serve Jesus as god and god too.

Jesus was a Jew in every sense of the word. He told his disciples that they would be left to "judge over all the twelve  tribes of Israel". Those he had come to unite and free from the Roman yoke.

in which case I win.

Win what? 


#27
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@Stephen
I may take up this argument again some time, but I'm currently too busy to argue about the Bible, I've wasted enough hours on the Internet doing that already.
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#28
Stephen
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@K_Michael
 I'm currently too busy to argue about the Bible,

Perfectly understandable. The Bible is a hard slog for many and  more so for   believers I have found  when comes to explaining away all its faults and ambiguous half stories that have been  taken at face value.  And it becomes  even harder, indeed unacceptable for them too once they have had surface scratched away..... for them. 


 I am lucky, I have had a fervent interest in the scriptures for decades and it helps when, like me, one enjoys the subject as much as I do, although, I am an atheist.

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.":  Mark Twain

550 days later

#29
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@Stephen
Jesus tempter was the Devil we are told.

Mathew4:1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Right off the bat this story falls apart if it is to be taken literally?Because immediately the “devil” begins his test by saying;

4:3“If you are the Son of God.” [?]command that these stones be made bread”.
When that didn’t go down as the devil thought it might, he had another go:
4:6 “If thou be the Son of God” [?] cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee”….
When this didn’t appear to bare fruit, the devil changed tactics by trying a bribe.
Mathew4: 8 Again,the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”.

IF!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.

It should be noticed too that, just like there was no witness to the conversation between Pilate and Jesus, or Nicodemus and Jesus, here too there wasn’t a single witness to this meeting in the desert, so how do the gospel writers know what was said? I do hope the Christians here will explain that for us?


Anyway,Jesus, you may not be surprised, refused the bribe and passed the test! And why wouldn’t he have? He was god and the son of god also wasn’t he, and everybody knew it didn’t they………. accept the devil it seems.

So how come that old devil Satan didn’t even recognise god when he seen him!?

After all, didn’t he exist with all the other heavenly beings even before mankind?      Doesn’t Luke's gospel speak of Satan falling from that heavenly abode? Luke 10:18

Didn't god once tell Satan to his face that he would be on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days? Genesis3:14
We know too that the devil had wagered face to face with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7. (Christians have never explained how it came pass that Satan came to be “walking here and there”, roaming around the earth.” after being sentenced to crawl and eat dirt for ever?)

How is it that the “demon” calling himself legion recognised god/son of god and Satan didn’t?   “He shouted at the top of his voice,“What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Mark5:7

It appears that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.
Jesus was asked to show a sign that he was God many times in the Bible. Jesus always dodge the question and never produced a sign.

Matthew 12:38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

John 6:30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to test Jesus. So they asked him to show them a miraculous sign from heaven.


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Stephen
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@Shila
Jesus always dodge the question and never produced a sign.

Yes. Quite the master of the non answer, wasn't he. Just like many Christians are.