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A few days ago, Billionaire Asmongold sparked immediate backlash from cancel culture when he said sharia law is made from an "inferior culture". He fully captured the essence of a typical believer of sharia. Strangely enough, he left out the unhealthy fanaticism that sharia law lovers have of themselves. Instead, he went on a racist tirade about Palestinians and used Saudi Arabia as an excuse for why Palestinians are the way that they are.
Asmongold's statements (all true):
"People who have genocide that's baked into their laws, are getting genocided. These people are not your allies; they are not the same as us."
"It (Sharia Law) kills people for their identity."
There's no equity in Sharia Law, there's only strict rules and regulations on every aspect of human behavior. There's no religious pluralism in Sharia Law, there's only Islam as the sole champion of morality and public policy.
Remember that your average Salafi jurist in your american/german/italian/spanish neighborhood isn't studying your nation's poetry and tradition, he's likely hammering away at thousands of fatwa books in his western home.
Source: Youtube Link
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While studying Islam I ran into his story. Apparently Muhhamed went to the 7th level of heaven and God gave him 50 prayers to give to the Muslims. He went down to the 5th Heaven and told Moses about the 50 prayers.
Moses convinced him to jew down the number of prayers, so Moses goes back up to the 7 th heaven and jews them down to 40 then back to Moses who said "too many"
This went back and forth several times until Muhhamed with the help of Moses Jewett God down to 5 prayers and then Moses told Muhhamed "Good job" .
And that is why Muslims pray 5 times a day now.
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Debates I will accept with muslims after we negotiate terms. I am pro on the following.
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus died and then rose from the dead
3. Muhhamed was not real
4. Having sex with children is unethical
5. The Quran is corrupted
6. Islam is not a religion of peace
I will add to this list as I learn more about your sick religion.
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I am looking to explore what Islam is about for 100 hours and then for 100 days. This blog piece is to explore the first 100 hours. The goal for this 100 days is ambituous/
1. listen to the entire Quran 25 times in English and 25 times in Quranic Arabic.
2. speedrun the entire dulingo Arabic course, it is not quranic arabic but there is enough overlap and it seems like a good foundation.
I already see some issues in Islam from my pre study. for one they change english translations of the Quran in response to controversy, such as when the prophet was sucking on the tongue of a young boy. This is essential for me to learn Arabic.
They also seem to think their book is uncorrupted, but arabic itself was not standardized during the time of the Quran's writing and the words weren't written down until years after the prophets death. There was also disagreement as to the what the words mean almost immediately with the Sunni Shia split.
Some things I am looking out for while going through the Quran, and I know there is more to Islam than the Quran but I want to read it first before getting more involved with the community to learn how to understand the words better. The point of the first 100 hours is to take things from the POV of Muslims and maybe the first 100 days before I dive into what the skeptics say. I will need to learn Islam at a basic level before I get into apologetics as well.
Here is what I am looking out for
1. Is their like a type of cycle of Jihad advocated for. I noticed societies with 1% Muslims will have Muslims claiming Islam is a religion of peace. Once it hits 20% Muslim the society starts defensive Jihad, where they will start attacking those critical of Islam. At 80% of population, Muslims will subjugate christians and Jews demanding a type of tribute to exist and unlike western societies who treat Muslims kindly, they will treat those who are not Muslim as lesser people.
2. Does your typical Muslim or apologist think "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed", Like a pedophile
3. Are they commanded to go after Jews and does the Quran actually claim Jews shape shift into animals and refuse to drink camel milk and other weird shit.
Day 1: I listened to an audiobook of the Quran for 2 hours. It begins with a type of rehash of the biblical old testament and criticizes Jews for their stubborness. The Old Testament in the bible seems to do the same thing and criticize Jews for their stubbornness but the God as portrayed in the bible is criticizing Jews from a place of love, where as Allah seems to refer to them as wrong doers and accuse them of lying about his words he gave them to write down. Just before the 2 hour mark it seems that Allah is challenging the Jews to kill themselves if they are confident they have done good and are ready to meet God. So already it seems to not respect the sanctity of life. I am not sure how this will continue but it seems the Muslim claims to love death because they are excited to meet God as they are sure they have pleased him, and accuse lovers of life of trying to live so long because they are afraid to meet God, because they know in their heart they are wrong doers.
This is my reading of the Quran. I intend to get a physical copy in addition to the audiobook and can listen about 3 hours a day. The audiobook is about 20 hours so I will give you guys daily summaries. Welcome to my blog.
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Needless to say, Islamic social values AKA Sharia values are in direct violation and opposition of liberal ones much more often than they clash with conservative ones.
Both sides can feel free to answer, including people who believe Islam is a religion of peace. Educate us, tell us about how much more you know about Islam than those afraid of it.
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I keep seeing defenses of him so weak they seem designed to insult the Muslim community. So I am curious, any actual Muslims here have any good defenses of him?
This is referencing his pedophila. The trollish defenses are things like the Todd Akin defense (it's not rape because he got her pregnant), and various No True Scotsman (no true pedo waits until they're nine, etc).
...
Alternatively, if there are no good defenses of him, how do you reconcile that with your faith?
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My debate is with Tigerlord.
This thread will be posted, so when the debate is published, everyone can find it.
All the following judges will be tagged as well.
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XX
XY
stop. just stop and think, very very hard.
Which is the default you as a creator would generate in chromosomes?
XX same, nothing new needs to be invented, this being can reproduce automatically via its womb or equivalent and needs no additional being to handle its dualistic chromosomal nature.
XY... competes hardcore to get to reproduce with XX, serves to be disposable meatshield during war and at other times puts in the work hunting and gathering. Can't feel orgasm nearly as deep and well as XX can. Organ is blatantly designed for entry to XX's organ but the reverse is not at all the case, it was built around bearing a child and exit strategy.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm
which was made for which?
try detectives, let's get it going!!!!!
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Just curious how the double standard runs exactly, is it that since the parents mutilate the child via a surgeon, it's okay to remove the beautiful foreskin the way that God made it?
This applies to you oddball American Catholics and Protestants who circumcise despite it being a Jewish and Islamic tradition, same with some African Christians and even tribal Pagans that took on the tradition.
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Andrew Tate gained his wealth by a model of revenue that onlyfans now runs by and/or enables. He was a webcam 'escort' service pimp. That was literally how he went from kickboxer making something but not too much to playboy (which is another issue) making millions.
He believes in fucking outside of marriage promiscuously, so much so that he would actually see the limit of 4 wives as a downgrade from his number nearer to 10 that he juggle at the moment in polyamory.
Andrew Tate has been a diehard Christian or so he said and his brother Tristan is still loyal to Christianity to my knowledge so this move is utterly terrible and makes a rift between them. I am also curious what the hell this is really about? Andrew Tate's stated reasons for converting to Islam are that they are scary, violent and intimidating in defense of their religion, he literally refers to them as the only religion to still be warrior like in how they spread, he 'admires' and 'respects' that apparently... Does he actually realise the irony here?
He went from hating the cancel culture of the West to embracing the more brutal and blatant cancel culture of the East that is violent in how it operates not just socially oppressive.
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I will like you to discuss this.
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- First of all, anybody I used to know still lurking around here?
- It seems nobody wants to debate me despite my soliciting efforts... I've been away a couple of years, & I've already noticed a huge change of attitudes. Regardless, this is a debate website, so let's get debating. I am Muslim, cultivated in an Islamic Tradition, my primary interest for debate. I realize most here have an aversion towards debating Islam related topics, maybe this post will make it a little bit more compelling. Although I'm interested in debating any Islam related topics (religion, theology, history, law, philosophy...etc), this is an initial list of ideas:
General:
God Is (God, as defined in the Islamic tradition of course)
Islam is true / Muhammed (pbuh) is a true prophet
The Quran is faithfully preserved
The Quran is a true revelation
Islam is a religion of peace
The Hadith tradition is genuine
Christianity vs. Islam:
Tawhid vs. Trinity
Quran vs. Bible preservation
Quran vs. NT preservation
Truth of Quran vs. Bible
Quranic stories vs. Biblical stories
Quranic prophets vs. Biblical prophets
Free Will in Islam vs. Christianity
Salvation in Islam vs. Christianity
Worldview in Islam vs. Christianity
Women's rights in Islam vs. Christianity
Human rights in Islam vs. Christianity
History of Muslims vs. Christians
Science in relation to Islam vs. Christianity
Islamic conquests vs. Christian conquests
Secularism vs. Islam:
Islamic state vs. Secular state
Freedom of religion in Islam vs. Secularism
Islamic education vs. Secular education
Islamic ethics vs. Secular ethics
Islamic history vs. Secular history
Human rights in Islam vs. Secularism
Women's rights in Islam vs. Secularism
Islamic conquests vs. Secular conquests
Hard challenges (for me):
The Quran is better preserved than any other book in history
Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is the best attested to person in history
Islamic penal law is superior to Secular penal law
History in Islamic tradition is superior to History in the Western tradition
The origin of Common Law is primarily Islamic Law
Eastern Christianity is superior to Western Christianity
The Hijab is a religious duty in all abrahamic religions
The zionist cause of Israel is culpable
Atheism is unattainable
Darwinian Evolution is more literature than science
Subsaharan Africa adopted civilization before White Europe (non-Mediterranean)
Nicholas Copernicus is a plagerist
Classical Physics is primarily an Islamic invention
The Arab race is the most influential race in history
Democracy is a terrible government system
Erdogan vs. any current European leader
The Islamic world will surpass the Western world by 2050
The Belt & Road project is good
China will surpass the Western world by 2040
The world order will go back to its pre-Western dominion by 2070
China has already surpassed the US
The Chinese communist state is superior to the Western democratic state
- I might think of more to add later... Lemme know if you'd like to chip in, I am open to new topics as well.
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Three corners, all-seeing eye in the middle.
God is the illuminati leader whom is also the devil.
OT God becomes Satan.
Lucifer becomes Jesus, not Satan yet he is Satan via Trinity.
Holy Ghost becomes Allah.
This is how and why there were three iterations. It explains every plothole including the problem of evil since the god has three personalities.
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Warning, this is a hot take
I have been a significantly worried left wing progressive due to the increased population and influence of Islamic immigrants in western culture for some time and kept my mouth shut for fear of bigotry calls but it is not just them at all.
The actual cultures and ideologies that the left of US wing defend immigrating heavily to their nations are as far right as it gets.
Who?
Mexico? Syria? Brazil? Argentina? Peru? Puerto Rico? Ukraine? Pakistan, India (which has Muslims and even the Hindus are quite right-wing depending on subculture variation, the Sikhs lean left).
I support the immigration, I do and I love the refugee influx from Ukraine (but resent that Ukraine hasn't allowed its men to surrender and flee, they are trapped for slaughter or capture at this point, I am a realist not a fairytale writer, I loathe Putin but a lost war is a lost war).
I support the immigration, I repeat it to make it clear.
I do not support the lack of direct integration. Only Scandinavia does direct integration, they force the immigrants to study for exams on western, leftist values if they wish to become true citizens at any point and even to do business and long-term work there they need to do it.
This is something the left puke at but do you really think no immigrants are voting for Republicans? These are severely conservative Christians and Muslims, use your damn head!
We must realise that we, the Left, fucked ourselves over by embracing the most homophobic, anti contraceptive, anti-abortion, anti-social-democracy cultures out there.
It is time to seriously sit and consider if it remains a smart idea to amicably be embracing the same ideology that all Sharia nations are based on and the very Christian conservative cultures of South America, which are anti-LGBT, anti,-abortion, brutally anti-feminism and basically anti-left altogether.
I am saying we need to show them respect, not disrespect. We must respect their core values are deeply right wing and conservative and ponder if the right wing has actually been inadvertently been a taboo deterrent to their own agenda's success.
If this offends you, I dont say this irl for a reason. Please let me have a safe space here free from cancel culture.
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1. muhammad was a child rapist :
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that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she
was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine
years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
In-book reference
: Book 67, Hadith 70
USC-MSA web (English) reference
: Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 65
In-book reference
: Book 67, Hadith 70
USC-MSA web (English) reference
: Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 65
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2. he lusted after his adopted son's wife -zinab bit jahsh- , Qur'an 33:37
his adopted son mindset was " I'm so lucky to have the greatest man alive wanting my wife , I'll just divorce her , IF only I was a woman to marry the prophet "
just to show you how much brain damage one need to have to join such a cult.
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3. he was a male gold digger -used the money from his first wife after her death to marry 12 more and built his own theocracy -(she was his sugar mummy) NOTHING can say I love you more than using all your money to marry 12 more woman after you especially that muhammad didn't dare to marry any other wife back when she was alive.
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4. he was incestuous - his adopted son's wife was also his own cousin "zinab bit jahsh "-
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5.he took over 100000 slaves and distribute them among his followers and the believers in his religion over multiple wars and battles with the disbelievers of the tribes around him , muhammad cared about ending the slavery of muslims as for non-muslims their slavery is totally fine in islam.
muhammad did free many slaves but all of them happen to be muslims
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6. encouraged child marriage :
Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet (ﷺ) himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region.
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet (ﷺ) himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region.
Collection
Sahih Bukhari
Dar-us-Salam reference
Hadith 5079
In-book reference
Book 67, Hadith 17
USC-MSA web (English) reference
Volume 7, Book 62, Hadith 16
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7.anyone that insult islam/ muhammad must die :
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse -insult- the Prophet (ﷺ) and
disparage -insult- him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but
she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander -insult- the
Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse -insult- him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly,
pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was
smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the
Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage -insult- you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood-she deserved it-.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage -insult- you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood-she deserved it-.
Grade:
Sahih (Al-Albani)
Sahih (Al-Albani)
: Sunan Abi Dawud 4361
In-book reference
: Book 40, Hadith 11
English translation
: Book 39, Hadith 434
and this is why muslims kill anyone that insult islam or muhammad
letting the murderer of a woman go since she deserves to die for the crime of insulting muhammad
the dude sounds totally benevolent more like malevolent
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Let us begin with one of my favorite :
1."The quran provides that the length of a normal gestation (pregnancy) is six months (Luqman 31:14; al-Baqarah 2:233; al-Ahqaf 46:15). Luqman 31:14 and al-Baqarah 2:233 provide a nursing period of 24 months. Al-Ahqaf 46:15 provides a total of 30 months for both gestation and nursing combined. This leaves only six months for the period of gestation. We know that this is not true. Normal gestation lasts nine months.
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2.the great whale carrying the earth on it's back , also the earth is flat
quran 68:1
and here I would like to reference islam wiki
while many islamic scholars deny this the 8 big books that explain the quran -the books of tafseer- mention it , which muslims return to to understand the quran like:
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Tafsir At-Tabari
At-Tabari mentions several interpretations. One of them is this:
هو الحوت الذي عليه الأرَضُون
It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.
At-Tabari tafsir on 68:1
In Islamic cosmology there are seven flat Earths, just like there are seven heavens:
Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them
They are placed on the whale like flapjacks on a plate, stacked one atop the other.
Tafsir Al-Qurtubi
Al-Qurtubi mentions several interpretations. One of them is that the Nun is the whale which is under the 7th (lowest) Earth:
نۤ> الحوت الذي تحت الأرض السابعة>
<Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.
Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1 [9]
From his use of the word "tahat" or "under" it can be surmised that in Al-Qurtubi's cosmology the earth is seen as flat.
ِTafsir Al-Kabir (by Ar-Razi)
بالحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض وهو في بحر تحت الأرض السفلى
..with the whale (بالحوت) which over its back is the Earth and it is in the sea under the Earth (الأرض) the lowest.
Tafsir Al-Kabir on 68:1[10]
Al-Kabir here repeates the idea that there are multiple flat earths balanced on the back of the whale.
ِTafsir Fath Al-Qadir (by Shawkani)
This tafsir is from the 18th century and it mentions several interpretations. One of them is the idea that the world is carried on the back of a whale:
Hadith Al-Kafi (shia)
Hadith Al-Kafi, one of the most prestigious Shi'ite hadith, also confirms that a whale carries the earth upon its back:
H 14813 – From him, from Salih, from one of his companions, from Abdul Samad Bin Basheer, who has reported the following: Abu Abdullah (asws) has said that: ‘The whale which is carrying the earth secretly said to itself that it is carrying the earth by its own strength. So Allah (azwj) the High Sent to it a fish smaller than a palm’s length, and larger than a finger. So it entered in its gills and shocked it. It remained like that for forty days. Then Allah (azwj) Raised it and was Merciful to it, and Took it out. So whenever Allah (azwj) Intends the earth to be in a quake, He (azwj) Sends that (small) fish to that (big) fish. So when it sees it, it becomes restless, so the earth gets engulfed by the earthquake’.
Al-Kafi, vol. 8, part 6, [12]
Tafsir Al-Tusi (shia)
The first comprehensive Shia tafsir[13] says this about the Nun:
وقال ابن عباس - فى رواية عنه - إن النون الحوت الذى عليه الارضون
And said Ibn Abbas (ابن عباس) - in his narration - that Nun (النون) is a whale (الحوت) which on it are the Earths (الارضون).
Al-Tibbyan by Al-Tusi on 68:1 [14]
There is thus attestation of Nun the whale in both the Sunni and Shi'ite tradition.
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the rising and setting place of the sun
quran 18:86
the sun sets in muddy water spring
hadith :
a).Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water. - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991
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b).The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38) sahih bukhari
Quran 18:90:
Until, when he came to the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield.
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and here's a few more scientific errors from the same website :
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While I can agree that women should obey their husband, and I also agree about morality coming from Allah.
- From there it follows: if it's Allah's morality is to punish apostates, so it should yours.
The stat I am concerned about is punishing those who leave the faith. What would that pu ishment entail and why? Isn't them being condemned to hell a good enough punishment as is?
- Your argument is: temporal punishment is unwarranted since an absolute punishment exists? That entails Law & penalties are superfluous. Maybe, a hasty judgement? Also, a finite punishment does not impact an infinite one, to add to your words...
Also, while homosexuality should certainly be discouraged through social pressure, I'm not exactly sure why a Muslim would advocate stoning the..
- You sound sincere in your question so I'm going to answer sincerely in good faith, as I know you can be a troll. In injecting an Islamic practice into an assumed secular paradigm you're begging the question. This is not a question on the effective practices, this is rather a question on the underlined values behind those practices. What do Muslims believe about foundational values?
- We believe our souls established a covenant (Ahd) with Allah to worship only Him. Then brought to this life as delegates (Khilafa) to Allah in this Earthly domain to cultivate & colonize the land (Istimar), acting on by proxy rights (Haq) granted by Allah. In this life our yearning for God is actually the memory of our covenant, as if something we miss we are incomplete without. This memory is our innate state of being (Fitrah), which manifests in our faculty to seek the divine & recognize it when we see it. This faculty is reason (Aql), gift entrusted to us to be fulfilled upon maturity. We are responsible (Taklif) to uphold that trust (Amana) by preserving our innate state of being (Fitrah) -thus our covenant- until we return to Allah again after death. Maintaining our covenant is to worship Allah alone (Ibada). Upon death, our last state of being (Khatima) is what counts, wether we have succeeded in the preservation of our innate state of being (Fitrah) or destroyed it, wether our good deeds outweigh our bad deeds or the opposite. In that course, Allah tests us with ease & trial (Ibtila) to reveal wether we are sincere & to remind us not to steer away from Him. Worship in essence is recognition of the divine –in the absolute, thus recognition of the self –in self-annihilation. This realization is submission to Allah (Islam) manifesting in gratitude & humility. Failure to achieve this realization is delusion, manifesting in arrogance & ingratitude. Gratitude is accomplished by repaying Allah's debt (Deen) on the self [Deen = religion]. Only Allah can tell us how to be grateful, hence revelation (Naql). If reason (Aql) is a gift to seek Allah, revelation (Naql) is a gift to know Allah. If revelation in essence is a message to adore the One (Tawhid), then reason in essence is to make-One (Tawhid, in the literal sense).
[To elaborate on that last bit, Tawhid literally means: make one. we believe that our memory of the One as our innate state of being is Reason itself. Thus, the essence of Reason is in: the conception of universals -that is to make-One particulars, & also the anticipation of explanations & causes (law of causation). It is as if, our memory of the One gives us the unique ability to see Him in the world, to see unity in the many, thus infer universals from particulars; that our memory of the One creates a want within us as if we miss Him that we seek explanations in everything we see in anticipation of an ultimate explanation: Him – to make-One, that is Tawhid].
- Transgression is to infringe on the right of another; the Earth being the domain of Allah (along with all things), any human exercise of rights therein is therefore transgressive. However, since Allah has made us delegates on the Earth we can act by proxy in his domain. Thus, as long as human exercises of rights are within the boundaries set by Allah, they are non-transgressive. – From this respect, Sharia, being inspired from a divine message, unavoidably must seek to preserve our innate state of being, while empowering us to settle on the Earth. Sharia must remove impediments to the soul's purpose of finding Allah in the temporal life. It follows, boundaries must be set to safeguard these purposes & transgression against these boundaries must be penalized, hence the 6 sacred rights:
- 1. Faith, for only in guaranteeing freedom of faith does the soul have the choice to uphold the covenant or break it.
- 2. Life, for only in survival does the soul have the chance to seek her purpose in finding Allah after maturity & to prosper on the Earth.
- 3. Reason, for only in preservation of reason that the soul may find its memory of Allah after maturity & settle rationally on the Earth.
- 4. Family – (for progeny, from a man & woman union), for only with nurtured & stable progeny that future souls may also get their chance at finding He who they have lost & also at settling & prospering on Earth.
- 5. Property – (material wealth), for only in guaranteeing earthly rights that can soul follow its purpose while being settled on the Earth.
- 6. Honor – (moral wealth), idem.
- We also believe that we get rewarded for our own good deeds, but also for the deeds others do thanks to ourselves. If I teach my child a virtue then I too get a reward whenever that virtue is actualized. & if he teaches his child, I get both, & so on ad infinitum. For the sake of preserving future souls & for the sake of gaining more rewards, Family preservation is necessary, thus a sacred right in Sharia. Any impediments to the sanctity of Family must be removed by Sharia, thus transgressions against the integrity of the family must be penalized; particularly, extra-marital intercourse type. Two such transgressions stand out above the rest: adultery & sodomy, for one leads to unsafe progeny & the other to no progeny at all. Therefore, adultery & sodomy must not be allowed, thus penalized. Hence, Hadd (penalty) in Sharia literally means 'stop' or 'limit'. However, given the very nature of these acts being generally carried out in private. Sharia deals a two-fold block to the practice:
- In private: if the practice was performed in private, then it must stay very in private. One, repentance in secret is mandatory. Two, exposure of the act by another party is punishable as calumny (qathf – in 80 lashes). Three, confessions are extremely discouraged, views of ulama range from accepting 4 consecutive & consistent confessions to not accepting any at all. Four, even if the confession is accepted recanting is possible up to the last moment, the transgressor need just call it off or leave the circle of penalty for it to stop. Five, in case the spouse was the witness, the outcome is permanent separation (Lian) without any need for public or legal recourse. Six, in case the spouse finds out after birth, the child is his by Sharia, unless in divorce. Seven, circumstantial or indirect (such as video) evidence is unacceptable & liable to punishment. Eight, having any number of testimonies less than 4 righteous, simultaneous corroborating & accidental witnesses on the act of penetration is punishable as calumny (80 lashes each) – which is a prohibitively impossible condition to fulfill unless the act is done in public. Nine, ignorance of the prohibition of the act in Sharia is like no act has occurred...etc. – In short, Sharia enacts all possible venues to keep private extra-marital intercourse as private as possible, deterring any revelatory factors, thus insuring integrity of the family & safeguarding the honor of those involved to allow for repentance & to protect their children's wellbeing; but also to block the spread of the act or any potential normalization.
- In public: if the act was performed in public, in a reasonably crowded place, where the condition: 4 righteous, simultaneous corroborating & accidental witnesses on the act of penetration fulfilled (for instance, not in a brothel where witnesses' testimonies would be invalid), then the punishment is stoning to death (Rajm). – In reality, only two such cases were recorded in the Ottoman empire during its 6 centuries of reign, one of which was a set-up. No one would actually go to those lengths for a bit of pleasure! Given that this kind of scenario's likelihood is of mythical proportions, the true purpose of Sharia is to prompt hopelessness into any attempt to advertise, promote or normalize these acts; also, the image of stoning is so harsh & horrifying, that in itself is a powerful deterrent from even thinking about committing such acts, even in private.
Please respond to the punishment stuff.
- I see our fellow quoted another post of mine >>> In the spirit of education again, there are three legal perspectives on apostasy among the Fuqaha. Any objections?
When you look at how predominantly muslim societies will often stone queers to death and do honor killings, I think they mean punished by death in those statistics.
- Aren't you very funny! You may wanna think about how the world sees the US, as the most violent nation on Earth. The occasional once a year "honor killing" headline in American TV from some other country, is met with an abundant stream of daily, if not hourly, violent crimes headlines in that other country. It's revolting. The delusion is almost pitiable. Another thing I don't get about his nonsense... it's not like these murders you love to call "honor killing" are legal, they are just murder. As a matter of fact, honor killings are un-Islamic practices imported from the West during Colonialism, a legacy of Civil Law (Swiss, Germanic & French) in these countries. Disgusting! It was not, in fact, until very recently that countries like Italy & Brazil criminalized murder for honor, like WTF?!! Other Western countries opted for change of language instead, passion instead of honor. Honor killings is murder, the "honor" label doesn't add or diminish anything from the act of taking a life. They don't like calling it honor killing in the West, so they instead call it crime of passion or crime of pride. We'll save the "terrorist" label for those we don't like, aka Muslims. We'll save the "honor killings" label for them too. Rightly so, mass killings by Whites happen virtually every other day, yet that one Muslim "terrorist" in 3 years is so much more... murder rates of women in crimes of passion or pride or greed is dozens if not hundreds of times higher than those "honor killings" in these countries, but they have the bad label, they must be so much worse. Lmao! How effing dumb is this?! In truth, you have most heinous types of murder in the US, mass murderers shoot others for no reason whatsoever, serial killers by the thousands murder for sheer pleasure. Do disturbing, it's as if the US is in a planet of its own in crimes.
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- To the dude named @BrotherDThomas who keeps harassing me with his poke-&-run tactics, the type of dude that runs away from debate, yet on his way out he turns & screams "you runaway" to save face & what's left of his dignity. In the spirit of fun, this is an open challenge to the Brother (the TRUE CHRISTIAN was it?) regarding the topic of Islam. He is to pick a topic of contention he wishes to argue, if I disagree we shall thus set up a debate with the appropriate rules & resolution.
Good luck to you Brother.
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Except for the name of the religion?
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Politics
When horrific acts are done by people who claimed, carried out traditions and see/saw themselves as members of a religion, often what is done by the politically correct media is to sympathise with the religious group and encourage peace by denouncing those people away from being considered genuine members of the religious group.
This goes for literally any incident or scandal you can think of, I am not just talking about the horrific acts that make the headlines.
The reason this strikes me as somewhat worrying is that while this is done, it then begins to highlight a hypocrisy when we see that people can define themselves, readily and happily, as members of religions we sometimes really resent those who do actually do it just to be part of the group. What I am saying is that let's say you're a person who wants to blend in with your very Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist etc family, if not friendship circle as well, you'd probably just say you're a member of that religion right? As long as you didn't do anything too scandalous or let's say you weren't caught, you'd be deemed a genuine member of that religion and anyone who would say 'wait no, that's just a poser' would instead get the backlash. What, then, actually qualifies someone as a genuine member of the religion?
To make it very clear what I am saying and the contradiction happening, I will explain it as an either/or statement.
Either
The evil people who know their holy scriptures off by heart and understand their religion's history very well are incorrectly being denounced as 'fake Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus etc'
Or
The not-so-evil posers who use religion to either blend in or get some kind of societal privilege are not actually posers, since the only real disqualifying factor appears to be how troublesome it would be to admit you're an adhering member of that religion.
The further thing to ask is whether it's morally correct and appropriate for people to 'raise their child into a religion' when we don't know which religion is the actual true one, right?
The very fact that entire families are commonly all of the same faith, if they're not atheist, isn't a coincidence and it is a reflection on religion being nothing more than a social construct. Even more disturbing is the fact that things like circumcision and animal abuse involved with many Islamic, Satanic and Wiccan sacrificial festivals are actually completely contradictory since we should be disqualifying them as they're justifying mutilation in the name of their religion. We actually did this with Muslims who endorsed (and a select minority still endorse) female circumcision, as well as many other examples such as what Christians used to do to suspected 'witches'. Similarly, Saudi Arabia has recently begun to cave into international pressure to move away from the strictly sexist elements of its Sharia Law, legalising women to drive and compete in the Olympics. Women are made to be pure subjects of men in the Qur'an, although it's true to say that in Islamic history there have been fierce female empresses and in Pakistan and Afghanistan in particular there have been female politicians who actively have been in charge of taming and handling negotiations with the Taliban.
The problem is that I am not exactly saying that it would be politically wise to be honest when a member of a religion does a very evil act. It's a very appropriate lie to suddenly say 'no they are nothing like what our religion stands for and are 100% fake' but that person probably knew more about the religion and lived more devout in terms of the traditions and lifestyle than most posers who call themselves 'casual followers' or 'modern, progressive' variants of their religion. The thing is, at what stage is religion nothing more than a fancy name to associate your 'group' or 'clique' with? What truly qualifies or disqualifies a genuine Muslim for example? It can't just be whether they're evil or not.
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Social experiment for the NPC's
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