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The Role of Moderation
There is no doubt some issues with the quality of posts on this site that significantly harm retention rate. When I crafted the new Code of Conduct it had 2 simultaneous goals and the goals were to;
1. Foster an environment where any opinion was welcome no matter how taboo.
2. Foster an environment where we behave with honor and a basic level of respect for each other
The COC was written in a way that was also flexible so those goals could be achieved without handcuffing moderators to any hard rules. The principles were written in so you could at least hold their feet to the fire by reminding them to act in accordance with those two principles. Obviously some things need to happen for the self preservation of the site as well. For example treating the site as a way to buy and sell drugs would cause the site to be taken offline, so these goals are made with the understanding that self preservation is important as well.
With that said it's more important these values are in the heart of each moderator, than it is that it's in writing under the COC tab. I believe these values are in the heart of each moderator with the exception of Oromagi, who is basically absent anyway. So my heart goes out to you guys (salute). This does leave us with another issue though. What does it mean to have a basic level of respect.
Basic Respect
I want to show you 2 controversial posts. One is of a guy promoting the rape of children and presenting it as children's rights. It is this thread by best.korea https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12464-children-can-consent
His argument for sex with minors is seen in the first post and isn't expanded on much from there. Later in the thread Barney points out that the thread misses the point, the only relevant rebuttal and it's ignored while best.korea continues to act as if he is defending childrens's rights. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12464-children-can-consent?page=2&post_number=46 . Which is true, nobody is even taking away children's rights. No child is arrested for consenting to the harm caused by sex with an adult, adults who bear the moral responsibility are the ones put in prison (hopefully) for it.
If you want you can compare this to a similarly controversial topic though less morally repugnant than you can compare it to AdreamofLiberty's post on bestiality which though almost as morally repugnant had the opposite response of the community to the point where it is now in the hall of fame. I urge anyone who doesn't understand why Best.korea is getting negative feedback to compare his arguments to ADOL's, found here.
There is a clear difference. One takes the subject seriously, and is handling it with respect and the other isn't . Another thing that's happpening is ADOL is not arguing that Bestiality is really an animal's rights issue. He is arguing about the moral responsibility of people who fuck dogs, or if you are Muslim maybe goats.
How I would help increase basic respect
There are those that do lack a certain amount of respect but do not go as far as best.korea. There are certain people who only use sarcasm when communicating or only use satire, and they do so because they can't actually support their world view. . It's my belief that these people can be flooded out and even influenced to change by higher quality members of the site. It is also my firm belief that if can eliminate certain people like best.korea than we will have a better retention rate for quality posters. We don't need to attract more people here to flood this place with high quality posters. We merely can improve retention rates of quality individuals to do the same team.
If you are reading this there are likely high quality posters here, you have no clue even exist because despite not being run off, they have limited site engagement and got intelligent conversation elsewhere. Whiteflame used to post more, and put effort into quality posts, as has Lunatic and Barney and Savant. Thett and Coal occasionally come on to see if they can get a quality discussion and then after 5 posts the leave for 6 months to try again and inevitably see the same thing. Sure some of these people may be very busy outside of the site, but it's rare to meet people who can hold a good conversation in real life and especially since in real life things like power games and keeping the peace often take precedent even among intelligent people.
My plan to drive site engagement would be to ban users like best.korea and to also step up as a scapegoat for the mods to make other controversial decisions so they can still keep a friendly image and just make me the bad guy. I am okay with this.
What you can do? WHo is the head mod now or the deputy mod? I forget either Vader or Whiteflame. Either way you guys can get a better quality site experience with enough public pressure, and not a combative pressure that makes people more clingy to their original beliefs, but a soft type of influence that encourages them that after they make this decision the negative feedback from it will quickly fade and then I can take pressure off of them long term by being a lightning rod of hate.
Let's do a straw poll in this thread. If you elect me as mod, I will handle the self proclaimed child molester and immediately improve site quality. I also am studying for a cyber security degree and things like IP addresses and other forms of fingerprinting to identify and out best.korea to real life family and friends and skills in OSINT are yes things I have, but I will never abuse those skills to break the rules of the site and protect potential victims in best.korea's life.
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DebateArt.com
Besides the obvious defects, kamala Harris I to authoritarian and evil to be president.
She has imprisoned thousands of black men for smoking weed, while simultaneously smoking weed herself.
She helped cover up for Joe Biden being in cognitive decline until it was too late to hide it from even the most brain washed leftist.
She was also okay screwing the Democratic voters out or a chance to choose their representative
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Politics
I heard Ronald Reagan went through the same circusntances, he suffered an assassination attempt, after that he went up in the polls and eventually won the elections by a considerable margin.
Trump was going to win anyway but after the shooting there is no doubt about it.
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Politics
The presidential debate is tomorrow (thursday) at 9pm eastern 8 pm central, airing on CNN.
If you want to talk shit while listening to it or just discuss it as it happens, I will be in the discord chat to commentate.
Nobody that joins has to have a particular political leaning though and we should all be respectful of each other's views while simultaneously having thick skin. Join here
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DebateArt.com
Now what is great to you?
Who is great to you?
Which president was greater?
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Miscellaneous
“White House sends letter to news execs urging outlets to ‘ramp up’ scrutiny of GOP’s Biden impeachment inquiry ‘based on lies’”
Marching orders given; marching orders gladly recieved! Oliver Darcy at CNN dutifully reports on the White House issuing instructions to media and proceeds to follow those instructions in the very same article without even a hint of irony or self awareness. It must be read to be believed:
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Politics
https://www.debateart.com/debates/4498-ron-desantis-is-a-better-choice-for-president-than-joe-biden-in-the-2024-election (To anyone who is interested.)
The rest of you who are strictly forum-dwellers.
Discuss.
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Politics
DebateArt is a website where people can argue and create
But lately people have started to evacuate
The election was a sham, a mockery of democracy
He bribed the voters with his money and hypocrisy
And now the president of the website is lazy and aloof
He does not listen to the feedback or any proof
That his website is failing and needs his care to revive
Or it will reach its bitter end and cease to be alive
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DebateArt.com
We are long overdue on a guide for interpreting the code of conduct on the site. A link to the code of conduct can found here https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/rules . This guide is intended to guide the site on a reasonable interpretation of the rules, so misunderstandings can be avoided in the future. It is also intended to help moderators remain consistent and show consistency in moderating policy.
I will be skipping the parts least up for interpretation.
User Accounts
"You may not use hateful, harassing, or obscene language or imagery in your username or avatar."
No nude pics unless they are artistic, no words in the avatar image such as "Wylted is a cuck" as a recent example. That would also fall under harassing language as the avatar or username was directed at a specific user, I would also advise against avatars that contain gruesome imagery such as dismembered bodies or fecal matter.
Hateful language would include clear racial slurs not borderline cases, derogatory and provably untrue statements such as "All white people are racist" or "Gypsy killer" or "Jews killedJesus" are forbidden, though defending those beliefs in a debate or by offering premises in threads that defend those positions are fine. We are not looking to thought police you, we are looking to disprove you here.
Authenticity
"Extravagant lies, not to be confused with mere context issues, may rise to the level of constituting impersonation"
extravagant lies, would constitute situations such as where you may claim to be an actual doctor and start giving dangerous medical advice. Perhaps it would be a situation where you are pretending to have inside information you don't possess, such as being a political aide and claiming that a nuke is about to hit the United States in 3 hours. These sorts of things are what is intended by the extravagant lie clause and it is not intended to be used as an excuse for other situations that don't fall neatly into the COC. For those situations I would encourage mods to either alter the COC or post "other" as the reasoning for the ban and give context.
Harassment
"You may not threaten or promote violence against any person or persons, barring hyperbole against public figures (e.g., “all politicians should be shot”). Advocacy in favor of terrorism and/or violent extremism, especially as related to hate groups as generally defined by the SPLC, is likewise prohibited."
The SPLC statement should be ignored, it is a link to an FAQ about hate groups with no definition offered, and clearly advocating the views of hate groups is acceptable. The very nature of a debate site is we are looking for a wide range of views and people to debate.
This sentence is properly interpreted to mean you are not to advocate for terrorist actions. No advising people to bomb buildings, though a debate explaining why it is a acceptable to take such actions is fine and hopefully allowing that talks somebody off an edge one day. You are not to advocate for extremist violence though if you are a terrorist or a violent extremist you are welcome to debate your views. Though not explicitly stated, promoting extremism through recruitment or advertising is not acceptable.
"You may not promote or encourage suicide or self harm."
Again this is not to be taken to mean you can't advocate for euthanasia. It means you can't go around encouraging individuals or groups to kill themselves. A debate entitle "The user known as X should kill himself" would also be off the table as well. If you are suicidal, we will not consider it a promotion of suicide to reach out on the site for help.
"You may not share any content from private messages, without the consent of the respective authors; or with moderator approval (such as for dispute resolution)."
There has been some misunderstanding here as well. Essentially no copy and pasting of a PM or sharing screenshots. Statements such as bringing up the rough outline of what was talked about in a PM is fine, this occurs all the time on the site in the mafia games for example, but please use good judgement and allow people to trust that they can communicate privately with you.
Objectionable Content
"Unwarranted systemic vulgarity and invectives, which may include off topic personal attacks and/or hate speech, are subject to disciplinary actions."
We are all adults here or people mature enough to handle a bit of vulgarity. The hate speech here isn't about thought policing. It is specifically about group identified attacks. Here is 3 examples of acceptable topics that are close to being considered hate speech, followed by 3 that would be considered hate speech.
borderline
- The holocaust didn't happen or was over exaggerated
- 5 reasons White people should be sterilized
- Black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime
hate speech
- black's should be exterminated
- Chinks need to stop spreading the flu
- Native American's got what they deserved with small pox
I will say what is covered in this rule is personal attacks. I did plan on seeing if I can work with the mods to cut that down because I think the COC would make personal attacks a bannable offense, but that clearly would mean personal attacks that are considered ad hominem.
An example of an ad hominem attack would be something such as "homo's can't speak intelligently on abortion". A similar statement which is not an ad hominem would be "homos should not speak about abortion because their opinions are usually going to be informed by Ivory tower thinking". Both statements are fallacious but only one qualifies as a personal attack.
In general most insults that are backed by stated premises are usually okay. Debaters by their very nature are very logical and expose their ideals to debate because they seek self improvement. We have thick skin, and will often use the hard truth to improve ourselves or explain to you why your insult was stupid.
In general debates can get heated and the line between what will get you banned can occasionally bend to allow for heated exchanges, but the rules will not be allowed to bend too far or too often.
Conclusion
The rest of the COC touches on points irrelevant to the rules about enforcement. If you are curious about how enforcement works please click the link at top, and read through the entire COC.
The moderation team took no part in creating this document, but this is the interpretation of the COC, I find to be correct and that I am urging the moderation team to use the interpretation. They seem to be already doing this to a large extent, but the community should see this interpretation if they have a hard time comprehending the rules.
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DebateArt.com
Feel free to listen to this theme tune as you indulge:
I am so sorry for the dull travesty that was Airmax. Let us all take a small moment to bow our heads and mourn how stupid any of us were to consider this corrupt mod out of the shadows that said 'vote me or I ditch you guys'.
Thank you for that moment. Now, is my turn to say sorry for more.
I am sorry DART, I was not the sexy beast the first time around, I was a beta bitch that got toyed with and tossed by Lunatic, Wylted and many others but those 2 spearheaded it from different angles/agendas.
It is time to tell you what the past year taught me and what I have tried to exemplify:
- I was an idiot to not accept that freedom of speech is important on a website like this. Of course it is, this is the place where the biggest sins should be doxxing or genuine horrific severity to levels we must censor. I did think that part already but I also implied some things that I've changed on. If we cannot harden our metal against pro-scummy ideas (I mean really scummy), we are weak and I see that what people attracted to this place are is unwilling to stay mentally weak. That's where I went wrong, no more pandering to the pansies, if you're in a bad place mentally get the help you need that's alright.
- I was wrong that the mods need much balancing. They don't. Whiteflame is actually very evenhanded and under him, other than a random outburst about 'vote corruption' on a debate where I got threatened and a little drama only he and I and the mods know about when I thought he tried to trick me into getting banned, I like the guy's quiet style of moderation.
- I don't think Supadudz is that wise or fit to lead the website in the position he is in. I think honestly I am one of the best contenders here to hold my own against the mods, I think I am now at a much better stage in my relationship with whiteflame and barney at the very least to see eye to eye on matters and talk them down on others and reason with users.
- I have learned that I don't care if lose.
I don't care if 3Ru7AL runs against me or not. I was going to campaign harder against that user but I will let the posts, activity level and whatever else speak for themselves.
I want the president position for the following agenda and reasons:
- Given my shaky history with previous mods, I am not exactly capable of ever setting foot into the mod realm here or being officially anything. I will always be seen as a flight risk and I am, I speak my mind, I am not super tame and that's fine. I want to prove in an actual official capacity (not even been allowed to be a vote mod or forum mod simple low level, despite asking) so I want to be President as a leg-up. You can cringe at this and say 'yeah put that on your resume' but this website and what it stands for is important to me. I literally want to guide online debating as a passion and whatever else if I can. People are so fucking weak, they stick to those that agree to them and like it, that's fine but it's not where people like us can last. We get pushed aside, alienated and having muzzles on our faces. I want to help you breathe free with me. I want to let the troll in you, the madman/madwoman in each of us to meet the rational scientist and yin-yang ourbrains in a way few activities and hobbies other than debating and reasoning itself can do.
- Aside from a passionate urge to finally become something special here, I currently have a problem. All new members get to interact with me ASAP (for better or worse). I make sure of it. I doubt most of the noobs know who the hell ilikepie or 3ru7al are and there's a reason for that. I am unique, I have an edge and despite being an introvert, I have a way of making everyone in every avenue here notice me and exchange words and thoughts. Yet, when one is in conflict, when one wants to know the rules, they naturally at always led to the mods. If you didn't know, lazy ass Airmax was supposed to be the liaison, the ambassador of even the mods themselves to the people. The President is meant to be that smiley face who can turn grim just as easily to the mods as to a toxic user and discipline both. If anybody here denies I am the most fit person here to be that guy, they are delusional and deserve an Airmaxv2.
- I am experienced in all areas of the website. Literally look at the stats on the leaderboard, not just Rating. There is no way other than nepotism and double-standard BS to say I am unworthy to be the gel of the website at least for a year (it actually is a 2-year limit, not 1-year Airmax was just disqualified for being so inept and such).
- I love this website's concept. I don't care about DART, I sure as hell didn't care about DDO. I am not here to shake hands with Mike that's lost faith with it. I want to be in that special Discord with the mods and lead the forge onwards if things go wrong. I am so not here to dig into the past of DDO, Lunatic forced that last time and I took it hook line and sinker, in fact another member brought it up before that. I am saying, my agenda is very simple; online debating gang above all else, my heart belongs to this like a fucking partial meaning of life. There is something about the idea of this actually succeeding, growing and not having any doxxing, cancel culture and that part of sites like Reddit and Quora hitting us that delights me... What if... It could get medium instead of tiny and avoid that drama fest? We will never know. I want to be the asshole, egotistical and mad as I am, to be officially instated as something so when/if things go to shit, I am there with Barney, Whiteflame, Oro and whoever else thinks I'm a loose cannoned fool to ride it out with them. Imagine this grows one day? Imagine us keeping this tiny joke of a fire burning actually becomes a fucking fiesta?
I never cared about DDO but I miss it too... The activity level, the way you could debate so hardcore and know votes would turn up, at least 2 solid tries if you campaigned for it... That was the shit you guys can't fathom... We've lost the magic here, If not for Mike the guy barely interested to be loyal to his promises to revamp and update the site... This would be gone too.
Vote me or throw your vote away, it's that simple.
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DebateArt.com
I am aware I voted no to the Presidency thing. I understand how this looks but ultimately if it exists I am all for trying. I never once made a secret of my ambitions to be a moderator here, yet I accept that both due to aggression I had to a couple of users here early on and due to me being a social outcast amongst the 'clique' who are moderators, I'll never be one for the foreseeable future.
So, I want you to know what I can and will do for you if you put me in the president position and explain why I am better than almost anyone else who will run for it.
Defense Attorney Guarantee
I absolutely promise you that no matter what Chris, Supa, Ragnar, David or whoever does to gaslight or silence you if/when a ban heads your way and you speak harshly against it, I will both personally represent your case to them even if I disagree with you and think you earned your ban as well as to create a thread myself that they won't dare to close, about your ban for the community to discuss in.
To prove to you that I represented you, I will post captions from our conversations regarding your moderation to a thread I create after the verdict is finally given or they ignore me completely.
Politics/Religion and Bias worries
I identify as left-wing and religiously you could call me agnostic but really I have my own theory that is close to Taoist philosophy in its conclusions and the way I go about life.
I can't promise you that I am going to be completely immune of bias in terms of caring as much if someone who agrees with me is censored vs someone espousing views I disagree with and I think any other candidate who promises you that is not self-aware.
What I can promise you is unless you have been particularly nasty to me personally, I'll unblock you and hear out why your particular censored content is wrongly treated that way.
In cases of harassment and two-way bullying, I have never and will never just instantly say the left-wing person or less religious person is in the right. To me, BrotherDThomas is a much bigger issue to the website community than Ethang5 despite the former blatantly being an atheist troll guised as a Christian and the latter being an unabashed Conservative Christian.
I know what bias is and am aware I have it but I will do everything in my conscious power to correct it. If and when it does happen, I am open to criticism, it will be something I'll need to prove doubters wrong on. I'm not immune to it, I accept it.
My agenda
My primary agenda is to make DART more of a website I'm not ashamed to show off to my family and IRL friends or whatever. As it is now, it's bit of a cringey trollfest in many departments and it's not as much an issue that the trolls are active as it is that I feel not enough special events like debate tournaments and actual worthwhile threads are created and contributed to.
I am going to heavily ensure if someone is baited by trolls to overreact and then gets banned that such user doesn't need to operate here totally afraid and instead ensure that the mods see who the provoking member was and to put into context each post.
I also want to give tips and advise to users in situations that I, as an ordinary user, perhaps never get to hear about or see in a combination of private and public clashes. As you know, I support using the block function much more readily and without the shame that most do. I'd always advise that as a default but I am quite good at seeing situations from both sides and would give tailored advice to any user who is feeling targeted and doesnt know how to handle it without lashing out and who feels the mods don't care.
I want this website to be a pleasure, a website you open every other day excited to see what's being posted rather than worry which nuisance has posted and made you not bother to use the site anymore due to. Those who don't know what I am referring to or how it can be achieved without censorship are welcome to vote against me. Those who want to see if I live by my word, should vote for me and see.
I am not going to cower to Chris, Supa, Ragnar or any of them. I am my own person and my agenda is entirely independent of whatever their clique may approve or or laugh into silence. Whatever you want for the website or to get heard in your defebse, let me know. If you're banned and feel nobody heard your case out, I'm not entirely sure what to do yet as I am not keen to give an email nor would I regularly check one but eventually off-site communication can be arranged. At the moment the presently banned seem to all be severe cases. The only one I think actually could be overturned would be Type1 but that's without knowing when he'd next go wild. When he tries, he's an extremely active and entertaining member. When he doesn't try, he becomes toxic and stupid and I do think personally that he knows that but anyway, the rest I'm not sure about. They all seem legitimate permabans.
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DebateArt.com
I have been homeless for almost 2 months . I thought about things that could help homelessness a lot. I really want to help people in poverty.
I'd be what you would call invisible homeless. I don't look homeless, I manage to either take showers at an rv park or at planet fitness. I keep my clothes clean. I don't drink or do drugs and I have a job. I had 2, but realized it was unsustainable because it left no time for anything else.
Everything takes longer
If you have a home, laundry is a quick process, but for me it can take 6 to 8 hours. Everything takes longer when you have nothing. Even getting a bite to eat can be an all day process.
I Learned to Relax
There is no entertainment except for my cellphone, but I am around vacationers in their RVs and camping. When I first saw them, it confused me how they can just stare at the water and relax. I honestly just learned about relaxation.
At first I pitied them, I thought they were just slowly letting their life waste away, but I thought "what if it is me who should be pitied ". So I made a conscious effort to do nothing. Just watch the water.
I still don't quite get relaxing, but it is something I strive for and I feel.like it has made my entire life less stressful and helped me to live in the moment.
there is no cure for Homelessness
Everywhere is hiring here, and will practically hire anyone who walks through the door, and although rent is ridiculous, nothing is stopping anyone from getting a job, getting a $50 business license and renting an office for $500 a month until they put back enough to get a stable home.
Most of these people want to drink, panhandle and sleep in the woods. I don't understand it, but apparently homelessness is mostly a choice
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Personal
Everyone’s talking about who’s gonna run in 2024 on the GOP side but who do y’all want on your side?
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Politics
As President, Trump is in charge of Law enforcement for the country. He is the direct head of the Justice department.
So what is all the palava about Trump talking to Barr? Where is the problem?
These complainers are people who don't even know how their own country's government is structured.
Now if we could only get rid of all these activist judges, we'd be making some progress!
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Politics