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@Mopac
If you actually care to get answers, I will help you to the best of my ability. As long as you are asking questions about the bible,
Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?
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@Mopac
You are claiming something about the old testament based on texts other than the old testament,
No I am not. I am claiming the OT was lifted from the Mesopotamian Epics and that the the word god is not even in those epics but the word lord can be found a read many hundreds of times in those Epics and the world lord does not mean a supernatural, all seeing, all hearing, all singing and all dancing god, who is everywhere at all times as was believed of GREEK AND ROMAN "gods". GROW UP! God is a rather new word meaning something entirely different to the word lord. You are having trouble understanding this. I cannot help you as there is no cure for stupid.
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@Paul
So Jesus is Lord does not mean Jesus is God?
Correct Paul, it doesn't. Not in its original meaning. Lord is what I have already explained, highly educated and of the higher classes, such as Royalty and or Priesthood. Someone who is highly educated and more experienced in certain fields can and do ' lord it ' over others less educated and experienced. We can call anyone anything we like, the romans decided he - Jesus - was a god, they had to make him a state god or the population wouldn't have accepted christianity as a state religion.. A person today can call themselves by any name / title they wish as long as you don't use it for fraudulent purposes.
The problem with the likes of Mopac, is, they cannot face a few very simple facts and or refuse to acknowledge historical facts. Jesus was a man that is a fact, Jesus wasn't a god and Mopac cannot prove otherwise. Jesus was a highly educated royal, who simply fought for his rightful inheritance, the throne of Jerusalem/king of the jews, even Pontius Pilate recognised this.. fact!. In fact Jesus had the duel authority in that he was both king and high priest. This is why the puppet high priesthood and the puppet kingship of the time felt threatened and wanted rid of him and looked on him as and accused him of, being a trouble making pretender. We have to remember that both High Priest Caiaphas and King Herod were put into power by the Romans.
But rather than face a few facts such as those mentioned dunces like Mopac would rather accuse you of, (1) lying,(2) not knowing anything about the Bible,(3)not having read the Bible, (4) not understanding anything about ancient history and (5) that lovely oft trotted out old chestnut, of being a troll who is only here to cause or "stir up trouble".
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@Paul
God is called the Lord all over the place in the Bible
Ya don't say. I know the word god is often interchanged with the word lord. But the original abstract idea of a god doesn't resemble at all, what a lord is, was or meant..
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@Mopac
The new testament is written in greek, and you clearly don't know what is written in it.
Don't be silly. Of course I know what is written in the Bible and I know that it is a translation of Greek. The OT was taken from the original Mesopotamian epics. You seem have totally missed my point which I won't now be bothering to expand on or explain to you as I can see you are somewhat confused.
But as I have already stated. The concept of a "god" doesn't resemble at all, the original meaning of the word Lord.
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@Paul
"Right, so Jesus is Lord is the same as saying Jesus is God".
No. Wrong. Jesus was simply an highly educated Royal, schooled in Egypt.: a lord.
The original Mesopotamian texts from which the Old Testament originates not once mentions the word god, They continually refer to these "higher beings / shining ones" i.e. educated ones/ teachers, to be their "lords". God/Deus is a Greek word.
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@Paul
Jesus is Lord
So is Lord John " two jags" Prescott. As are the other 800 jumped up non entities Lords in the U.K. It doesn't mean much it's only a title. In ancient times it meant to be educated in many fields. The first so called "gods" were never ever referred to as gods, they were simply called lords.
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@keithprosser
The OT isn't even interested in all people - only the Hebrews.
and Israelites.. Which is why I have never understood why people try bringing the OT into the argument against Christians when discussing the barbarity of Islam.
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@Stronn
I don't buy most religions. They implicitly assume that we are somehow the point of the entire universe, when in fact we are an insignificant speck.
I doubt very much any western religions believe we are "the point of the entire universe" any more. The vatican admitted recently that we are "not alone". And common sense in general would have us all down as pig ignorant people if we still believed we were the only beings in the whole universe.
I can't speak for other religions, but those not forcibly held back from education and the sciences would, I am sure, in the 21st century , agree that we are not alone and or the central focus of the universe.
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@linate
agnostic means to be neutral about god
An agnostic is someone who simply doesn't know , has no knowledge of etc. A- Gnosis = no knowledge of spiritual mysteries. Di- agnosis is best educated guess. Gnosis means one does or claims to have, knowledge of spiritual mysteries.
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We aren't trying to divide anyone, we're simply pointing out facts (immigrants from certain parts of the world are significantly more prone to comitting crime), and applying the best possible solution we currently have (end immigration from those areas or dramatically increase vetting and background checks and whatnot). That isn't divisive, it's logical.
It is logical, unless you are speaking to a left wing liberal who will never be directly affected by this mass migration of "immigrants from certain parts of the world".
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his remarks were disappointing
Oh please, stop trying to play down the seriousness of these statements. They weren't just "remarks" said off the cuff as you seem to be suggesting. These were statements made in his maiden speech as Prime Minister of Pakistan, he has also repeated them to the UN and islamic countries and councils around the world; he wants a blasphemy law world wide.
You are obviously not realising the bigger picture here, or you’re simply ignoring it.
It is one thing to pay lip service to the blasphemy law to quell and or appease the extreme Islamic elements in your country. It is another to proactively encourage these ancient blasphemy laws thereby bringing it into the spotlight and to call on and encourage other Islamic countries to ban cartoons. This is clearly incitement and would be classed as a hate crime should have I called for something similar, for instance - burn the Quran – say. And of course Khan had been playing the blasphemy card long before the suggestion of a cartoon competition:something else you have chosen to ignore.
Of course the other quite real possibility is that Prime Minister Imran Khan is not trying to quell or appease the Islamic extremist but actually agreeing with them. If this be the case, then the world has a bigger problem coming from that region than one could ever imagine.
The son of murdered Pakistani MP Salmaan Taseer told the Guardian:-
“My fatherwas a hero and a champion for change. He wanted amendments in this barbariclaw.
Imran Khan is a coward; he is supporting murderers and mob violence. This law is persecuting people; it is not respecting our prophet.”
And I will add, there is nothing I Quran that states any type of punishment... in this life.
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@Castin
Clearly he's very patriotic,
He is. He is calling for the German people to "grow some balls and defend themselves because the government won't". And from my experience this is true. It appears that the governments of Europe are not defending or protecting the indigenous citizens.
This is suppose, is what happens when the will of the people are ignored and then are left to defend themselves after the disastrous decisions governments have taken upon themselves to deploy. Is it any wonder why the right is on the rise?
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@Castin
But it looks like a German man was recently stabbed to death by two migrants in a brawl
I have only read briefly about this. It appears that the dead father of three who was stabbed multiple times was at a cash point with two of his friends when they were approached by migrants who attempted to rob them, they fled at one point only to return with another seven migrants and this is when the stabbing happened. Two failed asylum seeking refugees (one well known to the police) have been detained.
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@keithprosser
I'd say its disappointing,
But you haven't condemned Khan's decision to attempt to make blasphemy a crime around the world in the 21st century!. This is odd coming from someone who doesn't even believe in a god.
And you haven't even tried to explain the over the top reaction to a cartoon competition in your link that hasn't even taken place.. at all.
Are you saying that if it wasn't for the idea of a cartoon competition Prime Minister Imran Khan wouldn't have even mentioned blasphemy laws in his maiden speech?
Khan may have felt he had to say something about it to avoid making enemies of religious conservatives.
Say something!? You have obviously found the first clip you could find that goes some way to excusing this "disappointing" decision by Imran Khan. What you have glided over and ignored is the fact that he wants to ban blasphemy of islam and muhammad world wide.
So if that be the case, we are free to mock, criticize and ridicule any other ideology and or religion as long as it isn't islam.
Do you not realise the implications here or are you just defending and apologising for khan and islam?
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we can grab your women and you can't do nothing about it..because you have no balls, and the police won't do much about it
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Corruption, radicalisation, illiteracy & poverty werejust a few of the problems of Pakistan that Imran Khan promised to tackle and “solve”and the promises that he got elected into the office as Prime minister of Pakistan, on.
Yet in typical fashion of most the world’s politicians heseems to have back slid and made it a “priority” that blasphemy laws will be enforced.
In his maiden speech Khan said he intended to raise the blasphemy issue in the United Nations and wouldwork to achieve a common stand within the 57-nation Organization of IslamicCooperation (OIC).
Pakistan, asmany may know, is one of the worst countries in the world if one happens to be Christianand to oppose blasphemy laws is without doubt a death sentence and findingevidence for this one doesn’t have to look no further the case of Asiabibi and Salmaan Taseer who was murdered.
Asia Bibi blasphemy case involves a Pakistani Christian woman, AasiyaNoreen better known as Asia Bibi, convicted of blasphemy by a Pakistani court, receiving a sentence of death by hanging in 2010. InJune 2009, Noreen was involved in an argument with a group of Muslim women withwhom she had been harvesting berries after the other women grew angry with herfor drinking the same water as them. She was subsequently accused of insultingthe Islamic prophet Muhammad, a charge shedenies, and was arrested and imprisoned where eventually a Sheikhupura judge sentenced her to death.
Salmaan Tasseer was a Pakistani businessman and a liberalpolitician who simply asked the court to show mercy to this young girland he was murdered by his own bodyguard for having the audacity to ask such athing for someone who was convicted of “insulting the prophet”.
Some Pakistanis had believed they were getting change whenthey elected Khan, but it seems to be a case of – if nothing changes, thingswill remain the same. His decision to enforce blasphemy laws has been hailed widely hailed across Pakistan and encouraged in Saudi Arabia. When will these barbaric uneducated backward Muslimssimply grow up and realise that killing someone for being or thinking differentisn’t peaceful or benevolent?
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@Willows
Unfortunately for Catholics, they just happen to belong to what is probably one of the most, hideous, vile and corrupt institutions ever devised.
As is Islam.
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@vagabond
How about you tell me how many god stories you believe?
And you, how many god stories do you believe?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Why that dunce vagabond would even consider Catholics to be anything but Christian is extremely telling of his brain capacity. Maybe he thinks that Catholics are Buddhist in reality, or even Hindus or God forbid Muslims.. This thread is just another Christian baiting thread by a complete dunce who has nothing all to do but bait , mock and ridicule Christians and Christianity.
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@vagabond
There are plenty of "christians" who claim that catholics aren't christian. Your stupid if your poor reading showed you that I'm making that claim. The "?" at the end of sentences is a clue.
Yes I recognised it to be a question, you dummy., a stupid time wasting question. And I asked you, what else would a catholic be if not Christian.?You haven't answered that. and the reason you haven't answered is because it has been pointed out to you how absolutely cretinous your original question is.
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@vagabond
Are catholics Christian?.. That's the question.
What else would you expect a Catholic be if not a Christian?
They worship and follow the teaching of Christ, the clue is in the title Christos, you dummy. God, you are thick!
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@Castin
This is a 36 minute video of Arnoud van Doorn explaining himself and his conversion in his own words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LS9FmIQ0Ns
This Q& A was put on by the IPC (lslam Presentation Committee) who are based in Kuwait. This we should remember was the Muslim country that the western allies liberated from the tyranny of Sadam Husain.
It seems this guy was talking to an Imam who was feeding him what he should have expected to hear.. And a lot of others were “giving him advice”. And “basically the [his]message “is - don’t let Islam disappear from Europe".
Interesting that the Muslim taking the mic from him tells us that after the film was released that “he (Arnoud Van Doorn)who’s new Islamic name is - Arnoud, he who loves the Prophet Muhammad- was afraid of the reaction to the film from Muslims that he went to the Muslim community and was treated with respect etc etc.
He doesn’t actually tell us why he went to the Muslimcommunity in the first place?
“What people see is only the negative” he says ; but doesn’t explain the positive. Only to tell us non believers “don’t get angry,don’t shout but start a dialogue” and says that “I am not an expert I only know be patient with people (Muslims) be polite and smile to people (Muslims)”. He goes on to say “don’t fill your emptiness with music or alcohol”, Islam is complete, it has all the answers". It seems to me that this guy is simply telling us in a veiled manner we have to submit and accept to Islam.
I notice he doesn’t cover Homosexuality,apostasy or those who simply choose not to believe.
But as he says , “Islam has ALL the answers”, which is that, homosexuals, non believers and apostates should be All killed.
And he keeps pumping out the word“islamophobia” often.
He is so wrong about the MS media being “negative towards Islam”. MSM promotes Islam. They Are far too scared to call it out for what it is. Yes, they do report Islamic Terrorist atrocities, only because it would be impossible for them not to, wouldn’t it? But they always roll out the usual suspects, the local Mayor, councillor, Muslim Clerics and the local MP all condemning the terrorist act and telling us that“these are not real Muslims and this is not real Islam” and that “Islam is religion of peace”.
Islam has been in Europe for over 900 years he says: in “Spain, Portugal, Cordoba, Rumania,Bulgaria the Ottoman Empire”. But no one asks him how it got there and by what means. And he doesn’t explain why it was that it was eventually driven out.
And ofcourse he is going to “repair the damage caused by his film (Fitna) by making anotherabout the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), to show people what the peaceful message is”.
Well good luck with that for many reasons.
The only thing I believe he got spot on was when he said pointing next to him, “he’s the boss, I’m just following”. Indeed.
The overallmessage here was “spread the word”.
Not in my name or my back yard if I have a choice.
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@Imabench
Your opinion of me is totally irrelevant
-> @Imabench "Thats not what the issue is here though".
Then stop trying to make it one. You idiot.
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@Imabench
O.J Simpsons friends had no trouble believing that he didn't commit double murder either,
Oh yes they did. His best pal doubted him from the off and hid a suitcase knowing it was vital evidence. Do your homework stupid.
Robert Kardashian Fowling Up the O.J. Murder Evidence
the case you built
I haven't "built a case" you idiot. No. I only reposted the story. I haven't concluded anything except that I believe her story as do her friends, family and work colleagues. . You however have gone full Sherlock and with you illusionary powers of deduction have concluded; >
If I had to guess why she committed suicide, I would put my money on the combination of the investigation into her home, her hiding something that would be ruinous to her career if it were revealed by the investigation, and some sort of undiagnosed mental illness that slipped under the radar. People dont flip sh*t about an investigation into their home the way this politician did unless they have some sort of mental affliction, are hiding something fairly big, or both.
What absolute unsubstantiated crap! And still you return to a thread that you quit twice.
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@Castin
Let's talk about this Arnoud guy. The total 180 he did on Islam is interesting. From anti-Islam to Muslim.
Indeed let's.
It appears before he swiveled 180, Arnoud was a member the Dutch Freedom Party (PVV) of Geert Wilders.
His party put out a 17 minute movie that shows excerpts from Suras of the Qur'an, interspersed with media clips and newspaper cuttings showing ordescribing acts of violence and/or hatred by Muslims.
here is the interesting part for me, Van Doorn claims that it was
" the overwhelming reaction of Muslims around the world against the film Fitnathat made him convert to Islam".
Now I am sure we all know that it doesn't take much to upset a devoted muslim nowdoes it? We all now what "overwhelming reaction from muslims" when a few cartoons created when The Jyllands-Posten Muhammadcartoons appeared in print.
I would say this guy was insuch fear about the "overwhelming reactionof Muslims around the world" that he went allthe way into a full blow apology and converted to Islam to save his skin andprobably that of his family.
The International reaction to Fitna consistedof condemnation from Muslims,several fatwa against GeertWilders.
I think Van Doorn lost his bottle and caved in to the threats rather than commit suicide by remaining with the party that had shown islam for what it is. Itcertainly was the fastest 180 turn in Dutch Politics.
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@vagabond
Very telling yet again how you find anything you don't agree with "funny" and "hilarious" like rape and suicide. My god your vile.
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@vagabond
The stone cold facts seem to upset you more than they do me, you vile cretin.
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@ethang5
When he gets angry he spams over and over to himself.
He also does this to bury his blinding lies and contradictions then will accuse you of lying and contradicting yourself.
He would rather destroy a thread where he is losing the argument rather than just leave it alone. He is the worst type of debater, he is a mas-debater.
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@Imabench
The fact that you consider posts that utterly blow up your original arguments and disprove the entire video they are based on as 'attention seeking' shows that you are almost as unable to wrap your mind around logic and reason as the politics forum's resident dipshit Ethang.
Your opinion of me is totally irrelevant . They are not worth the time it has taken you to write and post them. Trying to label me a racist bigoted "islamophobe" - is not working - I DON'T CARE - what you think of me.
I hope I have corrected and educated you when I explained to you ...>
Islam is not "different people" is it? And neither is Islam a race.
Despite your ameture sleuthing and powers of deduction, Wilhelmina Ruurdina (Willie) Dille's friends, family and work colleagues have no trouble believing her account of what happened that led to her taking her own life. These were people much much closer to her than yourself or I. They knew her character and they knew her habits and they knew her personality personal and public, YOU DID NOT!
But here you are again, on a thread that you have said " goodbye" to twice now, seeking even more attention and resorting to foul language that is uncalled for. All rather cretinous behaviour, in my opinion.
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@vagabond
The punishment for homsexuality in Islam is death.
As it is in christianity.
Stop it for god's sake. When was the last time a Homosexual was stoned to death or slung from an high rise by christians. You really are unbelievably vile, you must make everyone you come into contact with , sick!
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And thousands of muslims agree with their god on this subject.And out of 1.6 billion that must be many.
Indeed just half % of 1.6 billion =16 million = many.
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@Imabench
Indeed and you have over ten attention seeking posts on this thread giving your uppence worth. I have to admit, I don't go a bundle on Islam. But Islam is not "different people" is it? And neither is Islam a race.nobody else is giving them enough attention despite their unfounded hatred of people different than them.
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@vagabond
Tell me all about your WHITE friends who rape girls and children by the tens of thousands.
More disgusting and thoughtless vile bile .
I just gave you the facts and they frighten fuk out of you, poor little thing.
You haven't given me anything and now you show your true colours with vile and foul language.
WHY HAVEN'T YOU BEEN BANNED!!!!?
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You would rather resort to telling the world that British muslim terrorist are not very good at their job,Thats your claim. I told you that 7,000 terrorists killed 18,000 people worldwide and you claimed there were 25,000 terrorists in Britain. They should have killed 65,000 people if they were actually terrorists like the ones killing people around the world. Your lies don't add up sunshine.
Nope it is your claim. These are your words telling us in Britain that British muslim terrorist are not very proficient at there terrorists activities, telling us all here that "pommy terrorists are slacking and how you find it all very funny " >>>
#Post 14 on this thread. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/86
You pommy 25,000 are really slacking off. Not very good terrorists and they still terrify you, now that's funny.
You are an absolute disgrace to any one decent.
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@vagabond
So you admit you have no evidence to support your bigotry concerning 1.6 bln Muslims.
I have admitted nothing of the sort, you vile animal. You just don't want to see it. The punishment for homsexuality in Islam is death. That is a fact. And thousands of muslims agree with their god on this subject. AND over half the population of British just muslims alone want it made illegal. But just like anything else that is anti islam, you simply cannot accept the facts.
You would rather resort to telling the world that British muslim terrorist are not very good at their job, whether it be bombing children at a concert or rapeing white children and girls by the thousands.
You pommy 25,000 are really slacking off. Not very good terrorists and they still terrify you, now that's funny.
What an absolutely disgraceful thing to say, you vile animal.
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It appears Muslims have a thing about raping white children and women as punishment.
And as was the case with Willie Dillie,threats were made to the lives of this teenager’s family too.
As a Rotherham groominggang survivor, I want people to know about the religious extremism whichinspired my abusers
Grooming gangs are not likepaedophile rings; instead, they operate almost exactly like terrorist networks,with all the same strategies
“ I wascalled a white slag and a white C*** as they beat me. They said I deserved to bepunished because I wasn’t Muslim and didn’t dress modestly”.
Fear of being killed and threats to my parents lives.
I suppose all the hundreds of muslim rape victims are also "islamophobes" to the sick and vile mind.
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@Imabench
Secondly Willie Dillie, the politician you're referring to, was a noted Islaoaphobe
Don't make me laugh. What she probably did was tell muslims a few home truths about their violent ideology and raped her for being outspoken and in doing so upset the poor little souls. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.
And if she was a so called "Islamophobe", her phobia was justified by the actions of the muslim animals that raped her and proved she had every reason to be phobic.
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@Imabench
Both my computer and phone have failed to be able to view the video,
Must be your own incompetence then. Still, it hasn't stopped you commenting on something you admit to not even seeing.
I don't suppose you have even tried to find a copy that you can watch.
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@vagabond
You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word vile or you wouldn't post what you do and then accuse others.
No just you. You are the vilest person I have ever come across on any debate forum.
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@vagabond
It wasn't a guess you vile halfwit.
Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds
Survey for Channel 4 documentary finds 23% want sharia law but most feel strong connection with Britain
At the last count there was said to be 2.8 million muslims in Britain.
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@Imabench
failing to link to a video that actually works, really showcases your intelligence right out of the gate.
It works fine for me and I don't think anyone else has had a problem
--> @Castin wrote: Honestly, that video made me sick to my stomach. If all that's true, that is horrible.
But it hasn't stopped you commenting on a video you haven't watched , has it?
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@vagabond
define many
many
ˈmɛni/
determiner, pronoun, & adjective
- 1.a large number of."many people agreed with her"synonyms:numerous, a great/good deal of, a lot of, a large/great number of, great quantities of, plenty of, countless, innumerable, scores of, crowds of, droves of, an army of, a horde of, a multitude of, a multiplicity of, multitudinous, numberless, multiple, untold;
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With only 350 to his flock the young Mr Powell has a long way to go before he reaches the masses of Islam that has 1.16 billion in its flock. Mr Powell though has one thing in his favour as far as his vile and repugnant opinions are concerned, that is many of the 1.16 billion who follow Islam just happen to agree with him.
The contradictory thing here is that the New Testament also says to "respect everyone" and to “Honor men of all sorts.”
So the young Mr Powell has a problem there doesn't he? And of course the difference between what MR Powell states what should be and what he wants and what actually happens are two different things entirely, aren't they?
I can't remember the last time anyone was actually executed in the West for being homsexual. The East of course, as you know, is a different matter.
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@vagabond
Simply more lies. Your statement is there at post 24 for all here to read should they want to be bored rigid!.
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@vagabond
"you are xenophobes".
Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Dutch MP Willie Dille was not wrong though it appears. Seems she had justly been right to " fear and distrust". Do you understand the word - perceived - ? It means _ come to realize or understand _.
Grow up.
Get real. These people had warned her " not to oppose Islam". So you now are suggesting that she shouldn't have taken these threats serious even though her understanding and realisation was that she will be AND WAS physically harmed and this harm led to her death.
You just don't realise what you write do you. Bandying tags and labels around will not EVER excuse the behaviour of her muslim attackers, no matter how much and often you try to apologise for them.
You really are an exceptionally vile person.
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Left wing dimwits, they must specialise at shooting themselves in the foot.
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@vagabond
Reading comprehension is simply beyond you isn't it. I never said that a credible historian had said "" no, Jesus didn't exist"Ask questions related to what I said, not what you would want me to say.
No, you didn't say that A credible historian had said NO, Jesus didn't exist, what you said IS that "EVERY credible historian WILL say NO the bible Jesus didn't ever exist".
Yet here you are, still denying you wrote this at post 24 page 1 ?
Added: 08.19.18 07:51AM Of course the first question is did the bible Jesus ever exist, and every credible historian will say no.
I want you to show us all some "credible historians" that will say " NO" the bible Jesus didn't ever exist. It is obvious you cannot do that.
This I have found is typical of you. You just fire off anything without a single thought. You have on many occasions been asked by me to support your claim. You have failed AGAIN. You have tried moving the goalposts, you have added text to your original statement hoping no one will notice and you now have suggested that others should now provide YOU with a " credible historian who attests to the historicity of the bible Jesus" .
I have come to the conclusion, you are simply a fool and are tolerated here for entertainment value only.. as vile and thoughtless as you are.
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@vagabond
Have none of you godists found a credible historian who attests to the historicity of the miracle working bible Jesus
You are supposed to be showing us "credible historians" who deny a "bible jesus". This is what you have said post 24
Added: 08.19.18 07:51AM Of course the first question is did the bible Jesus ever exist, and every credible historian will say no.
So why is it that you want others to find a "credible historian who attests to the historicity of the bible Jesus" ?
Don't think no one has noticed you trying to move the goalposts and trying to shift the burden of proof onto others , it is so obviously glaring.
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