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@IlDiavolo
Well, huge trade deficits clearly show that some countries are somehow importing much more products than they are exporting. Some countries barely have production, yet are somehow richer in life standards than countries with very high production.
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@sadolite
its always confounded me that they do because the rapist isn't sorry at all, but for only being caught.
I dont know why they forgive. It could be just a way to move on.
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@Sidewalker
Common, just one argument. Do I have to say please?
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@Sidewalker
Giving children right to consent protects children from abuse. If parents have no right to deny their children of choice, then they are less likely to deny children of choice. This protects children from over controlling parents. Over controlling parents are scientifically proved to harm child's decision making development and child's knowledge and confidence and ability to reject unwanted advances.
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@Sidewalker
Children who become smartest are those who have choices in childhood, so saying that children shouldnt be allowed to choose or consent is harmful.
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@Sidewalker
You wouldnt want anyone else deciding about you without your consent, so saying that children should suffer that treatment is inconsistent.
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@Mharman
I am here to debate the topic, not whatever issues you have with me.
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@Sidewalker
I am merely defending the position that it doesn't matter whether or not they consent
So can they consent or not?
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@Mharman
You don’t debate. You ragebait.
If you want to ban every topic which offends you, then I dont know what to tell you.
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@Sidewalker
You want to debate if children have the right to consent to being raped?
No. I am merely defending the position that children can consent. Are you going to present arguments for why children shouldnt be given a choice?
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@Mharman
Are you afraid of debate or something? You do understand that this is a debate site?
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@Double_R
@Shila
Children can learn things, thus they can consent to things they know. No person has all knowledge, thus it is not necessary to have all knowledge in order to consent, only some knowledge, which children can have. If all knowledge was necessary to consent, then no person would be able to consent, which doesnt work.
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@Shila
What is the youngest consent law?Age of consent in the United StatesIn the United States, each state and territory sets the age of consent either by statute or the common law applies, and there are several federal statutes related to protecting minors from sexual predators. Depending on the jurisdiction, the legal age of consent is between 16 and 18.
Law doesnt determine the truth. Present reasons for why children shouldnt have a choice.
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@Shila
Kids younger than 12 cannot consent to any type of sexual activity.
This is a debate about consent, not specifically consent to sexual activity, but we can debate that too.
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@Sidewalker
Of course, children can consent, but that doesn't matter, consent gets you prison
This isnt a debate about prison punishment. Its a debate about if child should have a right to choose. I defend position that child should have a choice. My opponent defends position that child shouldnt have a choice.
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@Double_R
Why? Is granting children the right to choose really something you want?
Yes. If children cant consent, then they either are property with other people making decisions for them, which is slavery, either other people cant make decisions for them, and then no decisions can even be logically made and every option is wrong, which cannot work.
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@FLRW
Are you saying that children shouldnt have a choice?
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@sadolite
I think the best way to tell if a man is a rapist would be to restrain the man and hand a knife to the alleged victim and see if she cuts his dick off.
Many victims of rape and sexual abuse say they forgive their rapists.
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Why would anyone think that children cant consent?
Common, fight me on this.
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@fauxlaw
What consent is not is violence or merely lack of resistance, involve intoxication or unconsciousness, being under aged,
I have made a debate. You said kids cant consent, so maybe accept the debate.
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Just to be clear, I am not saying that rape is okay. I am just saying that you can never know if woman consented or wanted it.
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@Savant
I was thinking of drawing swastikas on my arms until I realized that its a symbol of losers. It has two meanings. One is Hitler, who had many swastika flags everywhere yet still lost a war and thus is a loser even if he was morally right. The other meaning is indian peace symbol, and I dont like or want to be a peaceful loser.
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@WyIted
Its too bad that you are leaving. You cant be replaced, you know that. We wont get any new users with as much knowledge on different areas of life.
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@Greyparrot
Cool, now go find a competent Democrat to replace Trump. See you in 12 years.
Its great that USA only has two parties. One party are retarded communist control freaks who want to bring back gulags. The other party are delusional rich control freaks and nazis who want to purge groups to gain popularity. Its like having only two choices and no matter what choice you choose, you get punched in the face.
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@Sidewalker
Are you asking us to lie, why would we compromise our integrity by pretending he's not an idiot?
Dont get me wrong, I like when people make themselves miserable by hurting each other. The easiest way to destroy any group is to turn it against itself and watch it slowly devour itself and destroy itself. But I really cant understand why you guys do this. Its like watching those group suicides.
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@Mall
@Sidewalker
@Shila
@Moozer325
Seriously, guys... stop insulting Mall. These insults are really only going to turn into an insult fight which no one will win. I dont understand why I am forced to be a hypocrite here just to calm things down.
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@Shila
If the victim complains and files sexual assault charges. The accused will have to prove it was consensual sex.
At least 1 in 20 of women who report being raped lie about being raped. The number is probably even bigger, but these are just cases where it was clearly proved that woman lied about being raped just to put man in prison.
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@bronskibeat
I am glad we had this little chat.
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My votes:
Savant, Novice
Savant - I dont think I even need an explanation here. It is obvious. Savant is very active on the site, in forums, in games, in debates, everywhere, and always gives some very clever responses and thinks outside of the box. Then he is an undefeated debating champion. Yes. This isnt someone who farmed wins or just did few debates here and there. He went against many top debaters and won every time. You could even say he obliterated all opponents. This never happened before on this site. Ever. This alone means he deserves to be here, but there are also noble deeds done by him on this site. When RM was getting troll voted and unjustly lost rating due to troll votes spam, it was Savant who made another account with moderator's permission to help restore RM's rating, and also he helped create solution for troll votes. Savant participates in all discussions regarding the improvement of the site, and he brings very high quality arguments which is what debating site needs the most.
Novice - I find this guy to be very good debater, one of top debaters, but one has to admit and admire something else about him. He literally doesnt care. When people insult him, he doesnt care. When he loses a debate, he doesnt care. When people argue with him, he doesnt even care. He is one of those users who seem to not care, even not respond much outside the formal debate which he seems to have mastered over time. He wasnt always this good. His first account got defeated too much for his taste, but he said he will make another account and go on "undefeated run". And he did. He got much better over time to the point where if he accepts the debate, he has already won it. He even forfeits rounds often and still wins. He even weaponized forfeit in debates, to make 3 round debate into a 2 round debate. These are some crazy skills. It goes beyond mere debating. It is like some "grand chess strategy" applied to debating, where every move is already made in advance, and he has already won a debate before he even accepted it. If he accepts your debate, you have already lost.
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@IlDiavolo
I see that Satanism didn't help either. Jesus and Satan were useless. Lol.
To be honest, both Jesus and Satan helped more than pills did. But Satan helped in other ways. He opened my mind to new knowledge.
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@n8nrgim
US is the only nation in history which complains about the fact that they take 2x more from other countries than they give to them.
In terms of products, which is what matters the most, USA takes much more from the rest of the world than it gives to the rest of the world.
Reducing trade deficit just means Americans will have less products and be poorer lol
Its great that US education cant make average voter understand even basic economics.
Really, just abolish those public schools already. It is much better for US economy if some people dont go to school and get a job instead of going to school and ending up as illiterate retards anyway.
Seriously, look at comments on YouTube. About 30% of people are literally completely illiterate.
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@bronskibeat
Some rape victims are obsessed with their rape. They search for places on internet to talk about their rape. They want to talk about it all the time. You often see comments on internet from persons who got raped. There seems to be some obsession in them about talking about rape. Maybe it creates some hidden pleasure.
Even you here made plenty of posts about rape in a very short time, which just shows that merely talking about rape maybe creates some excitement in people. All people are different, and we cant really say that all women who were raped think in same way.
Some obviously dont even care much about being raped, and some get attracted to their rapist and want to get fucked by him again. There is just no telling what a woman really wants. It seems that women who were raped care the least about reporting rape.
There is also the fact that historically, women were often raped and forced to be with person they didnt want to be with, usually in form of forced marriages. It is very possible that women had to adapt and change due to those historical circumstances, and the new traits which resulted were probably passed on further even after women gained more freedom. It is possible that they got used to being dominated throughout history and even learned to enjoy it, so now when they get raped, they get those same feelings.
In animal world, rape is also very common. Even among animals, when one animal rapes another, it is common for the raped animal to start liking the other animal even after resisting at the start.
Some women masturbate while thinking of their own sexual abuse from the past. Now, I dont trust much in surveys, but there is a bunch of them on Quora and Reddit talking about people who get pleasure when thinking about their own sexual abuse. I am just saying, people are different, and different people react differently to experience. Some people like what others dont. Some people are hurt more by something, some not hurt at all.
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@bronskibeat
Yes. I'm speaking to the general trends of the population, not outliers.
So a logical fallacy and not any kind of universal truth.
They've changed their behavior, not necessarily their mind.
Mind controls behavior. You cannot change behavior without changing mind.
Some women acknowledge they were raped, but decide to stay with their abuser out of fear. Other women are in denial, and don't acknowledge they were raped until later on because they don't want to believe the person they trusted is capable of do such a thing or that they now may have to perceive themselves as victims. This doesn't mean that the experience wasn't negative for them at the time, but they suppressed those negative emotions in-order to get on in life. The problem with suppressing emotions that they often will eventually pop up in different ways, and that's typically when these women seek counseling for what happened to them. The psychological study of this sort of thing is vast and well-documented.
These are assumptions. Also, you just conceded that some women think they consented to rape.
Yes, denial is a self-defense mechanism.
Denial is a change of opinion, as denial itself is an opinion.
Women stay in relationships with their abusers, women who have been beaten by their boyfriends/husbands. This does not mean that women enjoy getting emotionally and physically abuse
Some women said they enjoyed being beaten and even provoked their husbands just so he would beat them. I am not saying its okay to beat women. I am just saying, you cant know what everyone thinks.
I asked you first. Why are you afraid to answer?
I answered.
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@bronskibeat
Were the 9/11 survivors at fault for 9/11 because they stated they felt guilty?
If they say they are guilty, do you believe them? Because if you can cherry pick which survey claims to believe and which not, then I can too.
So far, I've believed everyone mentioned through-out this argument. I've been consistent.
Okay, so you believe that when a woman says that rapist should stay with her, that it is true. Fine. However, since some women change their mind, it is still not possible for you to be consistent because you would have to believe two opposite statements both being true. She says she wants for rapist to fuck her again, then later she claims she was wrong. Good luck making consistency out of that.
Let's see what the science says:
Lets see what definitions say.
Is your conclusion that we should never believe anyone, and only trust our own first-person experiences?
No, that is not my conclusion. But yes, trusting anything people say is considered a form of stupidity.
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@bronskibeat
To be clear, when I spoke of "consistency", I spoke of overall or general trend
So you talked of majority and ignored minority? The claim that consistent words are true words is false. Consistency isnt even close to being a determination of truth. Truth by itself is only obtained by observation and not by any "random explanation" of how things work. Majority of people in the past had consistent explanations for why Earth is flat. Well, many even do today.
Majority doesnt determine the truth, and majority isnt incapable of lying, as proved by the fact that average person lies over 1000 times a year. So if almost every person tells lies, then by tautology, majority of them must tell lies as well. It is contradicting to say that almost everyone lies while claiming that majority doesnt lie. Your argument is just appeal to popularity fallacy. So if you think majority is always right, in that case, rape was normal for majority for most of history, in form of forced marriages.
Consistency isnt proof of truth either, otherwise God would be proved true due to consistency. But in your position, there is no consistency as many women fall in love with rapists and others change their mind about own rape, many say they are guilty for own rape by provoking a rapist.
Also, if your position is that only majority surveys are true, then if most women werent raped, then the women who did get raped are not majority and thus arent rule but exception. So are all rape victims lying?
that they didn't "change their mind"
They wrote love letters to their rapists and asked to stay with them. If they claim how that was denial, then they changed their mind.
they were suppressing negative feelings they were experiencing at the time as self-defense mechanism.
By sending love letters to their rapists?
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@Shila
If the victim does not complain, then it is not considered rape.
What if the victim complains, but actually wants it? Person can complain even if person wants it. Also, what about women who complain after sex?
"In a multi-site study of 8 US communities involved in the “Making a Difference” (MAD) Project conducted by EVAWI, data were collected by law enforcement agencies for all sexual assault reports received in an 18-24 month period. Of the 2,059 cases that were included in the study, 140 (7%) were classified as false."
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@bronskibeat
Ignoring is not negating. I'll keep repeating the argument until you actually address it.
Your loss.
I do believe that she feels guilty, that's not the same as being guilty.
So you dont believe everything survey says. You just cherry pick. You think woman lies when she says she is guilty.
My argument is that I believe that people say unless I have reason not to.
So cherry picking, essentially. Just because you dont have a reason not to believe someone doesnt mean he is telling the truth. Also, having a reason not to believe isnt good either unless reason is strong, and your reasons arent.
Orgasms can range in intensity, weak orgasms do not result in the feelings of "pleasure or excitement."
Orgasm is pleasure and excitement by definition.
I don't see any reason to believe that most people who are participating in these surveys and interviews are lying, you're right.
You also have no reason to believe they are telling the truth.
I believe the women who had relationships with their rapists, and I believe them when they say they had a negative experience and were in denial.
So you concede that they changed their minds. Hence, inconsistency. But not all women later say they had bad experience.
But, let's try this again: How do you know that the woman who wrote the love songs to her rapist wasn't lying?
Again, you repeat negated logic. Your position is that surveys are true. So you already concede it is true. I dont.
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@bronskibeat
But, by your logic, how do we know these women weren't lying about having relationships with their rapists?
You are the only one who claims surveys are true. So if surveys are true, then it is true that many women dont find rape as a big deal, some enjoy when they get raped, some want for the rapist to stay with them forever, some openly beg for rapist to stay with them, some women write love letters and love songs to rapist after he raped them. What exactly am I supposed to think here?
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@bronskibeat
The study The article states that these women were in denial about their experiences, and didn't immediately acknowledge what happened to them as rape because they didn't want to deal with the gravity that.
Not everything article states is true. But it does say that some women who were raped felt pleasure and even fell in love with their rapist and sent him love letters and asked him to stay with them after he raped them. This contradicts your claim of consistency where you claim that women always talk badly of being raped.
The trauma of the experience obviously caught up to them if, as the article states, they would later seek counseling for what happened. You don't seek counseling for sex you enjoyed.
Not all women seek counseling for rape. And actually, enjoying rape is sometimes the very reason for seeking counseling. Now, we cant know if those women had any traumas. It is very possible they enjoyed rape but then the rapist abandoned them and they felt bad about not being able to experience being raped again.
This article doesn't contradict consistency, because (as your source states) these women would later go on to say that they didn't enjoy what happened to them and they were in denial as a self-protective mechanism.
So women change their opinion and change what they say about their rape. That is inconsistency by definition. But just to be clear, not all women later say they were in denial. Some dont even think it is important that they were raped.
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@bronskibeat
If you read the study, you would see that participants did not claim pleasure in these scenarios (and these were many different types of people in many different types of scenarios).
Orgasm is pleasure and excitement by definition.
Let me try your style of argument for a second.
Sure.
Question:How can you prove that the women who say they have rape fantasies aren't lying?
You are the one who claims that everything written in surveys is true. I guess when woman writes love songs to her rapist, one cannot really make sense of what she wants.
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@bronskibeat
It's not an assumption. When multiple sources independent from each other say the same thing, it is irrational to assume everyone is lying. People are less likely to lie when they are in anonymous settings, that's a fact. And yet, we see no difference between what people say in-regard to their negative experience of rape when they are anonymous vs. when they are not.I'll say it again: Your argument falls apart because it relies on you picking and choosing what you believe from what people say. You believe women when they say they've been raped, when they save they've experienced rape-fantasies, and when they say they've experienced arousal during an assault, but then you stop believing them when they say that they did not find the rape enjoyable. You only believe what suits your narrative.
This was already negated. You just copy pasted a refuted argument.
Aw, you're purposefully ignore where I have repeatedly said: Feeling guilty is not the same as being guilty. I believe these women experience guilt, that is not the same as actually being guilty. I also believe that it is common for 9/11 survivors to feel guilt, I don't believe they are actually guilty of anything.
If woman says she is guilty for being raped, why dont you believe her?
Do you believe that people who survived 9/11 secretly wanted 9/11 to happen? By your logic, they could simply be lying because many people have fantasies about being in action movies where things blow up.
My argument isnt that I know what people think. That is YOUR argument. You are the only one here who claims that you can read minds.
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@fauxlaw
This discussion is useless mostly because terms have not been well defined.What is rape?What us sex?What is consent?
I mean, the definitions are hard to come up with here, as all definitions of consent in dictionary are circular. Definition of rape, being directly linked to consent, is likewise hard to come up with. As consent depends on the mind completely, there is really no telling what happens in woman's mind. Some women say they want sex but then regret it after the act and report a man for rape. Some women, on the other hand, seem to somehow fall in love with rapists. To put it simply, my argument is that there is really no way of knowing what a woman thinks. I think even woman herself doesnt know what she thinks, as she changes mind often.
In the link I provided, there is a story about a woman who got raped, and after man raped her, she asked him to stay over night.
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@bronskibeat
This link talks of women who fall in love with their rapists. Some women date their rapists. Some write them love songs after being raped. I guess so much for consistency.
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@bronskibeat
Punishment: As mentioned before, many victims don't wish to pursue prosecution for many reasons: fear they won't be believed, don't want the responsibility of breaking up a person's family, don't wish to relive the experience in court, fear that they will face some sort of retaliation, don't feel they remember enough about the person who raped them to be able to properly identify them, etc.
You cant read minds, silly.
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@bronskibeat
In a role-playing scenario (typically where consent, boundaries, and safety are laid out ahead of time), sure. That does not mean she wants it to actually happen in real life. One thing to understand, even when just talking about sex generally in regard to women, is that while most women enjoy sex, they are not ready to have it all of the time. For example, a woman can enjoy having sex with her husband, but her husband randomly forces her into sex, that would still be a traumatizing experience regardless of the fact that she had enjoyed sex with him in the past. Like I mentioned above, one thing all fantasies will always have in common is that the fantasizer is always in control, you take the control away, and it's not the same experience.
These are all unproved assumptions. You cant read minds.
They are not always pleasurable (sometimes they can even be painful):
Person can feel both pleasure and pain at same time. Its not really a negation of my claim.
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@bronskibeat
I believe women are telling truth in-regard to all of the above
So you say that women are guilty of their own rape? Well, that is your opinion.
There's no correlation between people experiencing rape fantasies, and also expressing a desire to be raped in real life.
Thats not a negation of my argument, since I never claimed that those who dont express their desire dont have desire.
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@bronskibeat
But it's unlikely to see people lying this consistently in both open and anonymous settings.
I dont see how can you know that it is even unlikely. Sounds like another assumption. People lie consistently all the time. Average person tells over 1000 lies a year. You can see in religious communities that lies are very common and consistent when there is social pressure. Also, women who want to be raped wont admit that they want to be raped, because that would ruin the roleplay. Those women want to feel raped. If they admit they wanted it, then the roleplay is spoiled.
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