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Muslims that kill Muslims for religious or ethnic reasons are all very conservative.
Why are liberals less Islamophobic than conservatives?
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@RationalMadman
You do understand that most killings of Muslims are done not by "Liberal-leaning, Conservative-leaning or 'completely independent centrists' but by other Muslims.In which country is that true?Definitely not Iraq or Afghanistan (the stats on Afghanistan are lies, the truth is not known but kind of obvious).
Provide a source for your statement.
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@RationalMadman
Muslims that kill Muslims for religious or ethnic reasons are all very conservative.
Provide a source for your statement.
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@RationalMadman
In what metric are they safest? Those are 2 of the least safe places in Europe.
Yes, they are in the top 10 safest countries in Europe. By the way, I confused Poland with Czech Republic which is also a conservative country, but still, Poland must be in the top 15 or 20.
I think it's the other way around actually. ;) You are trying to argue with a secular person, not a religious one. Their way of life shaped their fairytale justification for it.
All the same, it's a matter of interpretation of the Quran. Their political and social system are based on Islam no matter the interpretation, if that is what you mean by way of life.
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@RationalMadman
Anti gay
Anti abortion
Anti women
Pro protection of pedophiles
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@Vegasgiants
Anti gay
Islam is even more so.
Anti abortion
Islam is equally so. Do you support killing infants or what is the angle you come at this with? Perhaps the deeper issue is premarital sex with protection or what?
Anti women
How is Christianity anti-women?
Pro protection of pedophiles
Can you give evidence of this being part of the religion? Also, Islam has been far worse at this, child marriages as in teenagers or even 12 year-olds being married off is a thing.
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@IlDiavolo
Your source is total BS, I have no idea what it's basing it on but this is a situation where I have to say your source is BS. The ranking makes no sense at all.
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@prefix
Which part of my statement do you need sourced?
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Muslims that kill Muslims for religious or ethnic reasons are all very conservative.Provide a source for your statement.
You want a source that Islam of all sects that are engaging in killing each other is conservative to a high degree?
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Pew Research is one of the most reliable statistics-analysing sources to pull out for free access to it on the Internet.
Look at the nations that are less extremely conservative than others but are all Muslim-majority. Then correlate it to killing other muslims due to rivalries of ethnicity and religious sect.
You will find that being more extremely conservative in a nation's Islam is correlated with being violent to other Muslim sects and countries.
If you didn't know Congo and Niger are historically so regularly violent that as recently as last month a violent Coup happened in Niger (It's pronounced ni-jer because it's French-inspired and for another obvious reason).
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@prefix
Indeed, the survey finds that support for making sharia the law of the land is often higher in countries where the constitution or basic laws already favor Islam over other religions.2 Majorities in such countries say sharia should be enshrined as official law, including at least nine-in-ten Muslims in Afghanistan (99%) and Iraq (91%). By comparison, in countries where Islam is not legally favored, roughly a third or fewer Muslims say sharia should be the law of the land. Support is especially low in Kazakhstan (10%) and Azerbaijan (8%).3
What are Afghanistan and Iraq known for? Violence.
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@RationalMadman
Provide a source for your statement that Muslims are not killing Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan
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@RationalMadman
You want a source that Islam of all sects that are engaging in killing each other is conservative to a high degree?
Yes
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@RationalMadman
Your Pew cite is non sequitur
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@RationalMadman
Your second Pew cite is non sequitur
I find no distinction in any study where a Muslim who has killed another is classed as a conservative Muslim.
Perhaps you don't know what certain terms mean.
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@RationalMadman
Poland and Hungary are currently less safe than they were.
Not due to Muslims.
Muslims are people who believe in nonsense.
Rather like a lot of Americans.
In the U.K. most 50's and 60's Muslims and their families are pretty Westernised.
It's the new imports that are the current social problem...Thanks chiefly to the U.S. inspired "War on Terror". and "Arab Spring".....Yep they sure worked a treat.
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@prefix
I find no distinction in any study where a Muslim who has killed another is classed as a conservative Muslim.Perhaps you don't know what certain terms mean.
Could you clarify for me what you believe 'conservative' means?
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You want a source that Islam of all sects that are engaging in killing each other is conservative to a high degree?Yes
I provided it and you ignored it.
What do you consider 'convervative' how are you defining it?
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@prefix
Provide a source for your statement that Muslims are not killing Muslims in Iraq or Afghanistan
They have done. Those 2 countries were actually founded upon such violence, especially Iraq under Hussein. Iraq used to be Shi'ite primarily, that was the 'naturally' formed ethnic background of Iraq.
I said that Iraq and Afghanistan were 2 of the most non-coincidentally both the most conservative vigilantly pro-Sharia nations and also the most violent. Iran wasn't even on that Pew Research list but would be extremely high basically 100% by force supporting Sharia.
Saddam Hussein's family and of course some strategic allies assisting them, blackmailed the Shi'ite (pronounced 'shiiah') to adapt to Sunni values (there's very different dress codes, prayer chants, ways of doing weddings and a lot of things).
They also then waged war with Iran primarily in a vicious rivalry. He also ironically was somewhat singularly a reason that Yemen and Saudi didn't have a vicious rivalry like they do now as he helped the Yemeni leader 'tame' the Shi'ites there.
He abused many Shi'ite within his nation and his son Uday did too.
I don't want to run you down a detailed history of Taliban and how it's linked to Afghanistan and what has been a continual struggle there for decades. Surely you don't need a source to believe that.
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@RationalMadman
No woman can he a Cardinal or a pope
Christians supported and protected the largest pedophile ring the world has ever known. Your values are what you do...not what you say you do. When you say your mission is to help the poor but you keep priceless works of art and jewels and palaces for yourself that's your values. Christians have killed and tortured millions for generations.
If you are looking for the worst religion then Christianity certainly ranks up there with them
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@RationalMadman
A billion Muslims hurt no one today
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@RationalMadman
Your source is total BS, I have no idea what it's basing it on but this is a situation where I have to say your source is BS. The ranking makes no sense at all.
Of course you're free to believe whatever you want, but the reality is that countries like France, Germany, Sweden, and Neatherlands have security issues because of the massive migration from Muslim countries, specially France that is coincidentally the country with more muslims and hence the fifth most dangerous country in Europe.
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@IlDiavolo
I do not understand what you are saying tbph.
You seem to believe that if a place lacks Muslims, it is safer by default.
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@Vegasgiants
Many Muslims psychologically abuse each other to be scared shitless to be free from the cultlike religion. So, I disagree.
Not only that but because they are so anti medicine, anti psychiatry etc, they only have spiritual therapists and counsellors that violate confidentiality and add to the trust issues.
Perhaps research what living in Islamic nations is like before preaching that they hurt noone.
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@Vegasgiants
No woman can he a Cardinal or a pope
This lumps all Christians in with Catholicism and suggests that all men who cannot be the Pope or a Bishop are abused or mistreated. Women have literally got less rights and protection via law enforcement than men do under Sharia.
Christians supported and protected the largest pedophile ring the world has ever known.
So, you can say all Christians did or do something when only a minority of Catholics did but will ignore the fact that child trafficking, child marriages and pedophilic relationships are an actual part of Islamic countries in practise even today?
Your values are what you do...not what you say you do.
Firstly, this is false as values are core reasons and standards on which the decisions to act are based.
Secondly, I now believe you are completely derailing the thread in an intentional and malicious manner, nit at all abswering the question proposed in the title but wanting to make a redirect-villain to distract from it.
When you say your mission is to help the poor but you keep priceless works of art and jewels and palaces for yourself that's your values. Christians have killed and tortured millions for generations.
Do you believe they are genuine Christians?
The reasons this is key here is that real, genuine Islam allows for and encourages using sadism and slaughter to deter dissenters and infidels from opposing and resisting the spread and successful flourishing of Islam. This means that it is actually a lie, a true falsehood to simply dismiss the likes of ISIS saying they are fake Muslims violating Islam. Instead, they are real Muslims who have an interpretation of context of modern world as still being in the wartime era where Islam must use aggression to spread.
If you wish, I could theoretically give you verses and hadiths supoorting their actions but I refuse to actually produce such a manifesto even as a joke or devil's advocatw as it affects my status since it justifies intelligence agencies torturing me and invading my privacy.
If you are looking for the worst religion then Christianity certainly ranks up there with them
I am not sure how you got the idea that this thread in the politics section was abiut the worst religion.
If Allah is the real god then Islam is the best religion, by default. If not, that discussion is irrelevant to the thread unless explaining why liberals are less against it than conservatives are.
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@RationalMadman
You seem to believe that if a place lacks Muslims, it is safer by default.
Yes. Unfortunately islam is not compatible with most of the western values. It's pretty much known that the progress in western society has been mainly due to democracy and liberalism, something that muslims don't like too much because it's against their religion.
I'm afraid Islam doesn't lead to progress and never will because of its authoritarian nature, except in some cases where the country has obscene amounts of oil, but even so those who has oil still fail.
Western society should ban the entrance of muslims, or at least filter adequately.
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@RationalMadman
You want a source that Islam of all sects that are engaging in killing each other is conservative to a high degree?YesI provided it and you ignored it.
I read you Pew cite...it did not address the issue at hand.
And YOU need to define "conservative" since YOU are the one that brought it up.
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@RationalMadman
You are making statements that sit on the ourskirts of whatever your subject seems to be to you.
My point is simple and accurate. More Muslims are killed by other Muslims than are killed by non Muslims. Period QED
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My point is simple and accurate. More Muslims are killed by other Muslims than are killed by non Muslims. Period QED
But all those Muslims that kill other Muslims are conservative. Which is what I am still lost as to how you tackle or deny it.
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And YOU need to define "conservative" since YOU are the one that brought it up.
Upholding, living by and potentially pushing onto others values that include:
- Dressing to hide flesh, as a hardline rule.
- Seeing sexual urges and sex itself as for procreation only and a rare bonding experience for the married, married before they have sex.
- Resenting drugs, alcohol, music, gambling, gaming and anything that can be seen as a recreation that can get addictive and entrancing.
- Seeing men and women as two fundamentally different beings with a different purpose in life that links to their historic role in reproduction and family maintenance.
- Seeing men and women deviating from being disciplined, ordinary beings fulfilling their role as a father, mother etc as being distracted, unless a preacher or some sort of dogooder in a tangible easily understandable way.
- Resenting changes seeking to improve upon, evolve or alter things that already work and are deemed fine (if it aint broke don't fix it).
- Valuing harmony over creativity and using severe isolation tactics to pressure people to cave in if upsetting the status quo (conservative cultures force political correctness FAR more than liberal ones do).