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@whiteflame
You. It was a toss between Pie and you. I chose you since your char and role seemed pretty likely to be in game for what I am assuming to be the theme
Years mafia Day Phase 2
Posts
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Total:
142
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@whiteflame
Construction ended in 537 AD. Don't think anyone else has the wrong year for their event claim, but hey, could be wrong.
It was the one of 537. I get them confused. Either way not like I was lying about what I am. In my soft I was in the right date range
The Hagia Sophia is a far lesser known structure
It's one of the biggest and most well known structures in the Byzantium and was one of the crowning achievements. This is just wrong
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@Vader
You. It was a toss between Pie and you. I chose you since your char and role seemed pretty likely to be in game for what I am assuming to be the theme
...I didn't claim my role.
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@whiteflame
Ignore char then. I thought you did in your claim but I was wrong
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@whiteflame
Either way, I was protecting because of character.
Sorry still getting adjusted to the morning. I am just reading over stuff at the moment
I also think Luna is in the town. A huge analysis like that to catch up seems very townish for him. I've seen do the same thing as town in early games
I also think Luna is in the town. A huge analysis like that to catch up seems very townish for him. I've seen do the same thing as town in early games
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@Lunatic
You know what? I don’t want to dismiss joebob here either. Now that I think about it Vader kind of counter claims him since he has the potential to kill a mafia player by guarding correctly. Would earth put two killing roles in like that?
This is definitely a fair point and idk how I didn't notice. While it's not a direct CC, it's sort of a psuedo-CC to a certain extent so JoeBob falls into my lean scum.
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@Vader
It was the one of 537. I get them confused. Either way not like I was lying about what I am. In my soft I was in the right date range
You got the beginning of construction confused with the end of construction? I believe that, I just don't believe that, if you had this year in your PM and the specifics of whether it was the start or the end of construction, you would then proceed to confuse them in your claim. Much more believable if this was a fake claim that you'd confused.
It's one of the biggest and most well known structures in the Byzantium and was one of the crowning achievements. This is just wrong
I'll give you this, I was just throwing it out as a smaller reason.
Either way, I was protecting because of character.
So, what about my character made you think I had to be in this game? Luna has the fall of the Western Roman Empire, but you weren't considering him. You didn't consider any of those who had claimed their roles early. Why me?
It was the one of 537. I get them confused. Either way not like I was lying about what I am. In my soft I was in the right date rangeYou got the beginning of construction confused with the end of construction? I believe that, I just don't believe that, if you had this year in your PM and the specifics of whether it was the start or the end of construction, you would then proceed to confuse them in your claim. Much more believable if this was a fake claim that you'd confused.
Yes. This is 100% my mistake but I assumed 537 was the beginning because I have a relatively good knowledge of it. Just saw the date and saw Hagia Sofia. Either way, I figured it wasn't a big deal because they are in the date range in
It's one of the biggest and most well known structures in the Byzantium and was one of the crowning achievements. This is just wrongI'll give you this, I was just throwing it out as a smaller reason.Either way, I was protecting because of character.So, what about my character made you think I had to be in this game? Luna has the fall of the Western Roman Empire, but you weren't considering him. You didn't consider any of those who had claimed their roles early. Why me?
Because you were active and since I had a townread on you, I figured you would be more help with the town because of consistent activity. No guarantee that Luna would be active.
I think we should pursue a lynch on either Casey or JoeBob in my opinion. I am more inclined to lean Casey because I think that his willingness to hop on lynch wagons without relevant details is inherently scummy. He is also the only vanilla claimed in the game, which is 100% possible he is and there is only 1, I'm more likely to believe there is 0 consider what has been claimed and what's left to claim
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@Vader
Yes. This is 100% my mistake but I assumed 537 was the beginning because I have a relatively good knowledge of it. Just saw the date and saw Hagia Sofia. Either way, I figured it wasn't a big deal because they are in the date range in
Alright, I’ll leave this issue alone for now.
Because you were active and since I had a townread on you, I figured you would be more help with the town because of consistent activity. No guarantee that Luna would be active.
Don’t love that you’re shifting your basis for choosing me as a target from character to behavior, but I’ll leave this for now as well. Once Owen posts, I’ll come back to you.
I gotta say whiteflames interactions with Casey don’t line up with his read on him to me. The more I think about the interaction the more it seems kind of faked to distance themselves. Whiteflame has a back and forth with him calling him out for his moozer push, Casey kind of immediately backs off and all of a sudden that interaction is over. That and the Vader scum read is pinging me about Whiteflame. Partially because I think Vader seems incredibly townie and I feel like me and whiteflame as both town are usually in line more in thought than we are now. I also feel like he is investing a lot into theme analaysis which I just don’t really get. The idea that supa messed up fake claiming seems less likely from him than supa messing up as town, as mafia he would be a lot more careful I think and supa is always freely admitting and taking responsibility for mistakes as town (almost too much sometimes like last game he kept blaming himself for some mistake instead of pressing the fact that whiteflame and pie were pushing it too hard, and freely admitting he lost town the game etc). This is also why supa feels town to me though. Whiteflame pushing him but seeming not so interested in Casey is pinging my radar a bit, also I don’t see him using a lot of night kill analysis. The heavy theme research in the dates seems like mafia homework a bit as well, tbh I don’t really see all this as super helpful to town whereas mafia would be guessing at roles. Moving whiteflame a bit higher on my scum list.
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@Owen_T
Speaking of, you were on an hour ago and didn’t post. Where’s your claim?
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@Lunatic
So nothing about Vader’s year claim sets you off? I don’t really care if you’re sussing me at this stage, I’ve got my reasons to sus Vader and I intend to make a longer post detailing the why of it after Owen claims, but I find it strange that you chalk up his ascribing the wrong year to the event as townie. Vader has not always been careful as scum, you know that as well as I do.
As for NK analysis, I think that kind of WIFOM thinking always has some value, but there’s a limit. I pointed out that Pie was likely killed because scum thought he was the murder of Julius Caesar. Beyond that, Pie’s always been good at scum hunting and is often taken out early when he’s town for that reason. Doesn’t point to anyone specifically, nor does covering his reads necessarily do us a lot of good, but considering he scumread Vader as you yourself pointed out, I’m surprised to see you so willing to put him in your town pile based on weak behavioral analysis.
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@whiteflame
So nothing about Vader’s year claim sets you off?
I’m not insanely focused on theme atm, I’m trying to look into behavior more than usual. Also as I mentioned earlier it is really wierd to me that supa was not on the wylted vote. Scum would have had every incentive to be on that lynch and could easily justify and defend being on it, and I know supa is very responsive via discord so if he had a mafia partner pinging him to vote I feel he would have voted.
but I find it strange that you chalk up his ascribing the wrong year to the event as townie. Vader has not always been careful as scum, you know that as well as I do.
Maybe I’m not understanding the slip, but didn’t you initially ask him for a date range? A date range not being the exact same as the date in his claim stands to reason. But also supa makes mistakes as town as you seen in the last game and he over acknowledged the hell out of it and was like blaming the loss of the game on himself last game and he is acknowledging making some mistake here it seems to resemble his behavior from last game. Also my opinion of supa has drastically improved over the years especially after playing scum with him in chess mafia. Supa isn’t the same player .
As for NK analysis, I think that kind of WIFOM thinking always has some value, but there’s a limit. I pointed out that Pie was likely killed because scum thought he was the murder of Julius Caesar. Beyond that, Pie’s always been good at scum hunting and is often taken out early when he’s town for that reason. Doesn’t point to anyone specifically, nor does covering his reads necessarily do us a lot of good, but considering he scumread Vader as you yourself pointed out, I’m surprised to see you so willing to put him in your town pile based on weak behavioral analysis.
Like I said before it’s based on his interaction with Casey. Supa tends to buddy his scum partners so as scum it’s unlikely he would be bussing Casey and I find Casey to be likely scum. This can be revisited if I end up changing how I feel about Casey later on but I don’t think they are the same affiliation
Gonna give my reads after class and once I'm home in the 30min window I have. I've caught up to a certain extent and feel pretty decent about my reads. But I do want to see Owen's claim
The last two scum games supa was in that I remember was invincible mafia with pie where he hard buddies him the whole time, and in chess mafia with me where he buddied me multiple times
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@Lunatic
I’m not insanely focused on theme atm, I’m trying to look into behavior more than usual.
Very little about what I’ve said regarding Vader has anything to do with theme.
Also as I mentioned earlier it is really wierd to me that supa was not on the wylted vote. Scum would have had every incentive to be on that lynch and could easily justify and defend being on it, and I know supa is very responsive via discord so if he had a mafia partner pinging him to vote I feel he would have voted.
Responsive or not on Discord, Vader’s just been absent for much of the DP. Again, not unusual for scum Vader. He’s done this before as scum and as town. Not being on a lynch doesn’t indicate either way for me, even an easy one.
Maybe I’m not understanding the slip, but didn’t you initially ask him for a date range?
It doesn’t have anything to do with the range. He gave a specific year, said that year was the beginning of the building of the Hagia Sophia, and was clearly mixing up the start and end dates for that particular construction. You don’t find that odd at all? I agree he’s gotten better as scum. I think he’s gotten better as town, too. That doesn’t make him mistake-proof in either, and this seems like a much easier mistake to make if you’re crafting a fake claim than if you literally have the text of your claim in front of you.
Like I said before it’s based on his interaction with Casey. Supa tends to buddy his scum partners so as scum it’s unlikely he would be bussing Casey and I find Casey to be likely scum. This can be revisited if I end up changing how I feel about Casey later on but I don’t think they are the same affiliation
I agree with much of this, I just don’t see Casey as likely scum.
I'll give my deeper reads but I think these are my reads
Town
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Lean Town
Moozer
Luna
WF
Null
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Lean Scum
Owen_T
Scum
JoeBob
JoeBob
Case
Giving my reasons later.
Giving my reasons later.
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@whiteflame
I’ll sleep on the supa thing and respond to you later if I haven’t changed my mind, but yeah I’m gonna pass out for now.
Despite role analysis, both WF and Luna going back and forth feels like town disagreement. It would have to be a 1 on 1 unless it's some crazy bus which I really don't think it's the case. Both of them are arguing their points as there town behavior. Luna focusing on deep analytical analysis with a behavior focus while WF trends more toward theme (a little more than NK but we have more theme analysis than NK).
I also don't want to harp on the bullshit beginning/end of the PM but does it really matter? Do you really honestly think that a theme would be as so minuet as this is about construction beginning vs construction ending. If it was dates, sure I fucked up and that should draw suspicion but to draw it because it was completed construction is a bit ridiculous and just being nit picky. Not to mention the date range was still right lol. I will wait to see what WF says to a more clear extent
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@whiteflame
So, what about my character made you think I had to be in this game? Luna has the fall of the Western Roman Empire, but you weren't considering him. You didn't consider any of those who had claimed their roles early. Why me?Because you were active and since I had a townread on you, I figured you would be more help with the town because of consistent activity. No guarantee that Luna would be active.Don’t love that you’re shifting your basis for choosing me as a target from character to behavior, but I’ll leave this for now as well.
I didn't shift my basis. I said that your character was important so it built your cred. You asked why I didn't consider Luna and that was because of inactivity. You had a combo of char + behavior analysis. If giving more reasons for not consider Luna is shifting, then sure... I "shifted" my analysis
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@Vader
I also don't want to harp on the bullshit beginning/end of the PM but does it really matter? Do you really honestly think that a theme would be as so minuet as this is about construction beginning vs construction ending. If it was dates, sure I fucked up and that should draw suspicion but to draw it because it was completed construction is a bit ridiculous and just being nit picky. Not to mention the date range was still right lol. I will wait to see what WF says to a more clear extent
It does matter when you’re the only one so far who has made a mistake on their date, one you only corrected after you were called out on it. This isn’t about theme (I’ve said as much now several times) nearly so much as it is the fact that you fucked up your claim. I don’t know why you think the range being accurate somehow gives you cover, and the fact that both you and Luna keep drawing attention to the range as though it does makes me sus you both.
I didn't shift my basis. I said that your character was important so it built your cred. You asked why I didn't consider Luna and that was because of inactivity. You had a combo of char + behavior analysis. If giving more reasons for not consider Luna is shifting, then sure... I "shifted" my analysis
You’ve removed and added elements to your reasoning when pressed rather than clarifying your reasoning up front. I’d call that shifting your basis for selecting me as a target.
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@whiteflame
...oh yeah, his date is wrong. I looked up the Hagia Sofia. Construction began in 532 AD. Construction ended in 537 AD. Don't think anyone else has the wrong year for their event claim, but hey, could be wrong.
Actually, I was going to bring that up as well. I think that's actually rather telling, as I doubt Earth himself would have gotten that wrong while setting up this game.
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@Lunatic
You know what? I don’t want to dismiss joebob here either. Now that I think about it Vader kind of counter claims him since he has the potential to kill a mafia player by guarding correctly. Would earth put two killing roles in like that?
Actually, I did notice that last night as well. I don't think it's unthinkable that both roles are in the game, but I do find it very questionable. (I'm more or less responding to posts as I read them atm, I'll make a larger post in a bit.)
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@whiteflame
...oh yeah, his date is wrong. I looked up the Hagia Sofia. Construction began in 532 AD. Construction ended in 537 AD. Don't think anyone else has the wrong year for their event claim, but hey, could be wrong.
I find it scummy but I don’t think it’s confirming he’s scum. Last game I think it was? He didn’t pay attention to his pm and didn’t notice he was turned into a vanilla.
as for the vig kill, I’d prefer not to say when im gonna use it, but it’s soon.
The argument between Lunatic and Whiteflame seems towney also
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@Owen_T
Claim pls
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@Lunatic
but she also was super aggressive this day phase with moozer's lack of using the night action. I think we can all agree that not using moozers night action was dumb, but moozer is a pretty inexperienced player, and it seems a bit oppertunistic of her to jump on this, only to fall back after recieving a little bit of back lash from whiteflame.
Alright, if you're going to sus me, that's fine, but I need to make this point clear: I wasn't trying to push Moozer. Yesterday, I was just frustrated due to how slowly this game has been moving, how inactive several players had been, plus I was working a long shift after not getting much sleep and I just haven't been feeling well this week in general. To be honest, when I saw Moozer say that he hadn't even used his role last night, I got kind of pissed. My responses to Moozer were calling out the bad reasoning behind him not using his role, yes, but it's not because I thought he was lying, but because I wanted him to understand why he should have used his ability instead of trying to save it for later. Whiteflame was pretty much doing the same thing as me, just in a slightly less confrontational tone. Maybe I was a little hard on Moozer, and you can criticize me for that if you like, but I wasn't trying to set him up for a lynch. Moozer is honestly my top town read right now despite everything.
I will say this, though, I townread you as well, mainly for this line:
I will say his role was literally just used in my last game, which is interesting, but doesn't mean earth didn't take inspiration from that game and copy it here.
I consider this to be a town tell, as it misunderstands Vader's role. Vader described himself as an 'Elite Bodyguard', which not only protects their target (as a normal Bodyguard does) but also kills the attacker. JoeBob's role in your game doesn't stop the NK, but does kill the killer. They're different -- Vader's role is intended to target the probable victim, while JoeBob's is intended to target the probable killer. I think I can see how you would misunderstand the situation, though, which is why I think that was an honest mistake.