Years mafia Day Phase 2

Author: Earth

Posts

Read-only
Total: 142
#31
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Moozer325
Well Pie didn't really give me a lot to go on for scum or town, and Joebob was in that CC pool right?
It wasn't a 'CC pool'. The theme is years in which something significant happened in the Roman Empire. Of course we'd have several years in the first century. That's when the empire was at its greatest and largest. JoeBob had claimed a confirmable role, so he should have been viewed as likely town. 

But even putting that aside, your role doesn't just give us a small hint, it gives the town guidance on who we should pay attention to and which scum teams are likely/unlikely. Information is so key in this game. We've already lost one informational role, and we might lose you as well, and if we do lose you tonight, we will have gotten NOTHING out of either of our two informational roles (three if you count Wylted). 
#32
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Earth
@Owen_T
That's because I've had nothing to contribute but fluff.
Even fluff would be better than not contributing at all.

It's become apparent the Luna isn't going to be active much if at all, so not sure what we should do about that.
Earth can seek a replacement (that's why I'm tagging you, Earth - if Luna's only going to post once every 3 days, I'd really rather not turn him into another WyIted situation where he just gets lynched in absentia), but there's not a lot we can do about it other than tag him and hope he'll come online.

Nor has there been any activity from Vader this DP yet, so it's a little weird to me that WF is calling me out instead of either of those two.
I already said that Vader is the priority claim before yours and why. I also said why I'm prioritizing your claim over Luna's, but that his full claim is still needed. Both of them were tagged, but neither have been online, while you were. It's DP2 and I don't want to succumb to inactivity just because a couple of people aren't around for long stretches of time.
#33
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Vader
Anyway, I'll jump on the Vader wagon as well. May as well. 

VTL Vader
#34
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Vader
Anyway, I'll jump on the Vader wagon as well. May as well. 


VTL Vader
Topic's author
#35
Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,087
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
-->
@whiteflame
Earth can seek a replacement (that's why I'm tagging you, Earth - if Luna's only going to post once every 3 days, I'd really rather not turn him into another WyIted situation where he just gets lynched in absentia), but there's not a lot we can do about it other than tag him and hope he'll come online.
There aren't exactly a lot of players around.
#36
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Earth
There aren't exactly a lot of players around.
I get it. Just saying it’s worth putting out feelers.
#37
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
This is pretty stupid and I’m positive scum are on this train 

But I’m 537. The year which the construction of Hagia Sofia began. I am an Elite Bodyguard where if I protect the NK, the attacker dies as well
#38
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
I feel like one of the info role has to be scum. I actually am sort of leaning Moozer. The only reason I could see him not using his role is if he's scum and tryna to get to L-1 to "fake" he got a guilty. Seems sus to me
#39
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Vader
This is pretty stupid and I’m positive scum are on this train 

But I’m 537. The year which the construction of Hagia Sofia began. I am an Elite Bodyguard where if I protect the NK, the attacker dies as well
Interesting. Justification?
Topic's author
#40
Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,087
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
VOTE COUNT

Vader - (2/4) Owen, Casey


Additionally, I forgot to say that Pie was the nightkill in the opening post

#41
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
Work is (thankfully) just about over for me. I'll Unvote for now. 
#42
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Vader
I feel like one of the info role has to be scum. I actually am sort of leaning Moozer. The only reason I could see him not using his role is if he's scum and tryna to get to L-1 to "fake" he got a guilty. Seems sus to me
So... you're sussing the only claimed informational role? I don't like Moozer's reasoning, but that would mean he's fake claiming a role without a specific name (Pie and I have put a name to it, but he didn't claim one) and the only one that indicates alignment so far (Owen or Luna might have one, not ruling that out). I don't buy it.

#43
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Owen_T
You're up. Looking for a full claim.
#44
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@whiteflame
This is pretty stupid and I’m positive scum are on this train 

But I’m 537. The year which the construction of Hagia Sofia began. I am an Elite Bodyguard where if I protect the NK, the attacker dies as well
Interesting. Justification?

The church itself was built for a way to protect from the sin of the world, where there was countless excomunnications and various holy lands. It was also built in a short time and stood tall for over 1000years before being raided by the Ottomans. Because of how you protected the faith for over 1000s of years and were shielded from raids as a holy site...
#45
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@whiteflame
I feel like one of the info role has to be scum. I actually am sort of leaning Moozer. The only reason I could see him not using his role is if he's scum and tryna to get to L-1 to "fake" he got a guilty. Seems sus to me
So... you're sussing the only claimed informational role? I don't like Moozer's reasoning, but that would mean he's fake claiming a role without a specific name (Pie and I have put a name to it, but he didn't claim one) and the only one that indicates alignment so far (Owen or Luna might have one, not ruling that out). I don't buy it.

I also am strongly suspicious of Casey. I am just pointing out observations as nothing should be ruled out until we have a full role claims. But yes it is very difficult at the moment because his intellect could've given him some town cred and also helped us establish a townie assuming he's town. And also from my perspective, it's easy for him to just say "oh ____ is innocent" when it's just their scum partner. I feel like balance wise if he was town there would have to be another way to view this. So yes I do because it's a weak investigative 
#46
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@whiteflame
@Casey_Risk
 out of either of our two informational roles (three if you count Wylted). 
I only see 1 claimed
 Is this a scum slip?
#47
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Vader
He's talking about the two dead players. The Pie's Motion Detector is an informational role, and WyIted's is informative only after he dies, so technically there have been 3. Only one, Moozer's, is alignment-indicative.
Topic's author
#48
Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,087
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
VOTE COUNT

Vader - (1/4) Owen

#49
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Vader
I only see 1 claimed
I was referring to Moozer and Pie. Pie died before he could give us any results, so his informational role ended up not helping us out (not that it was his fault). 
#50
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Vader
Additional question: who did you target with your role NP1?

#51
Moozer325
Moozer325's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 1,186
3
2
8
Moozer325's avatar
Moozer325
3
2
8
Alright, I'm going to turn in for the night. I probably won't be too active tomorrow, so I'll make my case here. I'm too exhausted to write coherently, so kudos if you can figure out what I'm trying to say.

Naturally, some of this may change after we get more full-claims, but this is why I shouldn't be lynch as of right now.

I feel pretty stupid for not getting the Theme split earlier on.

Now I get that my reasons for not using my role aren't the best, but the point is that there is a defensible reason. You may disagree with my decision, but I have reasoning for why I made it. IMO, this negates the whole thing about how I might be scum based on my night actions. 

Also, I was one of the first to full claim. That's always a good reason. I've also been active-ish. That gives me a major benefit over lots of the people supposedly playing this game.

Finally, I'll ask for just one more round. If I'm not killed, I'll have some info for you, and if I am, well then I'm not scum. It's kinda like me saying I'm confirmable in a way. 


#52
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
Alive:

JoeBob - 64 AD - Great Fire of Rome - 1x Vigilante - NP1: None
Casey - 53 AD - Roman emperor Trajan born - Vanilla
Vader - 537 AD - Hagia Sofia construction begins - Elite Bodyguard - NP1: ???
Owen_T - 27 BCE - ???
Lunatic - 476 AD - Fall of the Western Roman Empire - ???
Whiteflame - 1453 AD - Byzantine Empire conquered - ???
Moozer - 80 AD - Colosseum complete - Alignment Checker - NP1: None

Dead:

Wylted - 79 AD - Mount Vesuvius eruption - Diary Writer
ILikePie - 49 BCE - Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon - Motion Detector


I'll wait for Owen to claim and Vader to fill us in on what he did before I claim my own role. For now, suffice it to say that while I have my disagreements with Moozer's choice, I don't think he's scum. It's a weird move for scum to just abstain from using the role when he could be using it to direct focus to other players. I've got other reasons, but while some of his choices could be scummy, he balances out to town behaviorally and his claim leads decidedly town.


#53
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,029
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
I'm pretty exhausted after today. For now, I'll just say that, while I am a bit frustrated with his decision to not use his ability, I doubt Moozer is actually scum. 
#54
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Okay I am caught up. I have no useful results. 

I want to pursue a little wifom, as this was something I was just mentioning in the mafia pm of my last game I hosted, is that people rarely look into night kill analysis, when it is a very useful tool. Generally people who are killed np1 are killed for a reason. Sometimes it's as simple as "That person scum read me" and sometimes its as simple as "I have a lot of respect for this player and they could catch me". More often, its because they are suspected of having a strong power role. 

As a mafia host, less often do I see the analysis, if ever, used by mafia that a night kill is used to cause confusion. In one of pie's posts he asked us to analyze a few of the people in his null list and scum read list in post 138, so I will do him that honor. His null list was me, casey and owen, his scum list wylted and vader. I know I am town, so obviously I am removing myself from this list, wylted is scum, so I'll remove him from this list. I think it is very likely that one of the three remaining people is scum possibly both, though its just as likely there is one scum in his town pile as well. But based on pie being killed, I see casey fitting into literally all three of those categories. Casey I have seen in mafia pm's show a lot of admiration and respect towards pie, especially after their first game with pie where they won. The next time she was mafia she was mentioning pie being a threat multiple times in the mafia pm in the game I hosted with her and whiteflame as scum (villains mafia I believe). That combined with being on pies suspect list, puts casey as my number one lynch option right now. Also casey's play has felt very "lynch and information hungry" to me especially in pursuing inactives like myself and wylted. She was fully on board with lynching me, and even after I claimed my character was the only one saying I should have full claimed and never responded to why when I asked her. She was on board the wylted traini just as hard, (I know others were too), but she also was super aggressive this day phase with moozer's lack of using the night action. I think we can all agree that not using moozers night action was dumb, but moozer is a pretty inexperienced player, and it seems a bit oppertunistic of her to jump on this, only to fall back after recieving a little bit of back lash from whiteflame.

So casey right now is my number one lynch target.

Second place goes to Owen, who has also been apart of the same lynch wagons as casey, seems indifferent in the pursuit of acquiring any actual information, but has been relatively careless with his vote. Owen's play seems confident in his activity to carry him, since hes online to vote when needed, but doesn't really seem to care whose being voted for and just seems happy to achieve any lynch. Was willing to full lynch me last day phase, and obviously was also on the wylted train. This behavior is very resemblant of his mafia play in villains mafia, just taking advantage of an inactive town and voting easy votes that are justifiable with logic like "oh this person wasn't active, you can't blame me for being apart of this one!". Just as in that game, owen was apart of every mislynch, I wouldn't be surprised to see that being the case here. I want to say town owen would put in more care in his lynching habits than this.

Supa i'll consider as well, but ill place him lower on the list priority list for now as he has claimed, and so far seems to be the only claimed protective role. I will say his role was literally just used in my last game, which is interesting, but doesn't mean earth didn't take inspiration from that game and copy it here. However his reaction towards casey indicates these two are likely not on the same team. MY view of vader is that he tends to blatantly buddy his mafia partners, even uninentionally lately in a lot of his scum games, so if casey ends up seeming town to me later I might want to pursue vader more, but considering I am scum reading casey higher than him, I am buying into the wifom that these two are not team mates for the time being.

VTL casey_risk

#55
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
wylted is town so i am removing him from the list *

EBWOP
Topic's author
#56
Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,087
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
VOTE COUNT

Vader - (1/4) Owen
Casey - (1/4) Lunatic
#57
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
You know what? I’m gonna give town cred to moozer and Vader actually for not being on the wylted mislynch. It was too easy a mislynch to be a part of for mafia not to be on it. I know Vader was relatively inactive like myself but both of us are responsive to discord messages and I’m pretty sure Vader would have happily boarded that lynch if scum. Same logic applies to moozer but more so for Vader.

My gut is kind of hinting to me Whiteflame could be scum with either Casey or OwenT.

Three most likely scum scenarios for me atm are:
Casey, whiteflame
Casey, OwenT
Whiteflame, Owen.

My only problem with Casey and Whiteflame is I would have to believe the argument between them about moozer was faked, and Whiteflame is definitely clever enough to do that. Casey did kind of back off it fast though, possibly under advisement from Whiteflame that it would look too scummy to be pushing moozer so hard. 
#58
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
You know what? I don’t want to dismiss joebob here either. Now that I think about it Vader kind of counter claims him since he has the potential to kill a mafia player by guarding correctly. Would earth put two killing roles in like that?
#59
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@whiteflame
I don’t expect you to really respond to being in my POE lists, it’s kind of baseless and based on gut feeling and my natural skepticism of you.

However I am interested your thoughts on Casey as a whole, your thoughts on whether both scum were on the lynch, and your thoughts on two killing roles with Vader and Joebob.
#60
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,820
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@Lunatic
I don’t expect you to really respond to being in my POE lists, it’s kind of baseless and based on gut feeling and my natural skepticism of you.
Honestly, I'd sus you if you weren't at least a little skeptical of me, so no problem there. Not much to say on that front. Hopefully my claim will clarify things a bit.

However I am interested your thoughts on Casey as a whole, your thoughts on whether both scum were on the lynch, and your thoughts on two killing roles with Vader and Joebob.
I haven't talked about Casey since DP1 where I was sussing them a bit, but the more I've seen of Casey's behavior, the less I'm sussing them. A large part of that is Casey's sussing of Vader (I don't think Casey would start bussing their partner that early), who I have good reason to believe is scum for a variety of reasons, among them:

He's one of two date claims about building something and for some reason only claimed the beginning of construction, while Moozer claimed completion
The Hagia Sophia is a far lesser known structure and is an outlier among existing claims in terms of importance
He didn't claim his night action along with his role for some reason despite being actively sussed by multiple people and...

...oh yeah, his date is wrong. I looked up the Hagia Sofia. Construction began in 532 AD. Construction ended in 537 AD. Don't think anyone else has the wrong year for their event claim, but hey, could be wrong.

I have one other big reason why I'm sussing his claim, though I'll wait for Owen's claim before I put all my cards on the table.

I buy JoeBob's claim, though he'll have to use his shot at some point to confirm himself. He has another night to prove himself, I'm willing to give him that.

So right now the choice for partner is between you and Owen. I think I know what Owen's event is, and I think it's more likely to be him based on how thematically aligned your and my events are, but that's where PoE leaves me.