Instigator / Pro
42
1500
rating
6
debates
75.0%
won
Topic
#5573

If God does not exist, then morality is speculative at best

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
18
0
Better sources
12
6
Better legibility
6
2
Better conduct
6
0

After 6 votes and with 34 points ahead, the winner is...

Socrates_had_a_baby
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
2,000
Voting period
Six months
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
8
1500
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Description

In Dostoevsky's classic, "The Brothers Karamazov," one of the brilliant characters, Ivan Fyodorovich, states the following:
"...were mankind's belief in its immortality to be destroyed, not only love but also any living power to continue the life of the world would at once dry up in it. Not only that but then nothing would be immoral any longer, everything would be permitted, even the eating of human flesh (anthropophagy)."

Another character summarizes Ivan's view this way: "Evildoing should not only be permitted but even should be acknowledged as the most necessary and most intelligent solution for the situation of every godless person!"

The contention of this debate is to answer the age-old question, "Does atheism imply immorality, or can the moral landscape be salvaged some other way than in the existence of the divine?"

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Forfeiture

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Forfeiture.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pro was around for debate.
Sources didn't factor in really.
Pro was legible.
Con conduct hit for missing debate.

Title and Description
I read The Brothers Karamazov once in High School.
. . . Well, permitted by who?
Even in chess one is not permitted by standard rules, to move a King as a Knight.
One can do so anyhow, but even if God exists, one can eat human flesh, even if it is not permitted by God.
People still commit and value acts defined evil by God.
R1
"what is considered moral today can be considered immoral tomorrow"
I suppose, but any yardstick is a yardstick, what makes God the yardstick of yardsticks?
R2
Moral Truths, Moral Ends, Ends that maximize X or hold true to X.
If one father instructs their child to kill, and another father instructs their own child to not kill, Both children's moral facilities were not random, but intentionally designed.
Course, I suppose one might argue that there 'is no other God, that my example of two fathers does not work compared to God.
R3
I think obligations exist when there is some end,
The obligation exists when considering how to reach that end,
If I value money above all, I have an obligation to take advantage of my fellow humans,
If I value my fellow humans, I have an obligation not to take advantage of them. Generally speaking.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pro made argument. Con didnt.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Forfeit by Con

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Forfeiture.