GnosticChristianBishop

"Is it perhaps a duty in religion, or in some parts of a religious groups, to convince others that your god is real?"

It is indeed a duty and a part of my Gnostic Christian ideology.

If one thinks he has the best God and laws  or rules to live life by, I think one would be duty bound to let others know.

Imagine if it were otherwise.

We would still be living in trees and caves because the better ideas went unspoken.

Regards

DL

"Do you have any evidence/arguments that would prove that humans have souls/immaterial minds?"

About 96% of us think in a material dualism, body/soul, way.

Is a survey evidence? I think so.

Telepathy is also evidence that we have an immaterial consciousness that we can use outside of our own bodies.

There are even toys that are mind controlled.

We live in a dualistic reality, and logic and reason, --- and what we think statistically, --- seem to show this exactly.

Regards

DL

"What religion/s do YOU believe should be abolished?"

All religions that asks/forces parents to hate their gay or female children by preaching homophobia and misogyny.

Regards

DL

Yes.

All moral people will speak against evil or immoral practices.

That excludes all homophobes and misogynists in the right wings of politics and religions.

Regards

DL

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
   
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. 
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube
 
Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
 
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube


The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Gnosis enlightens adults.

Regards
DL

Thanks for this, and apologies for my reading a bit too quickly before.

I was going to tell our friend that in philosophical debates, if a general term cannot be address, like good or evil, without a definition argument before hand, it is likely never going to get to the issue and get hung up on the definition arguments.

I think our friend is less than honest and that is why he posted as he did.

Christians are the hardest people to get to discuss morals with, because theirs are so poor.

There were/are good reasons for them to use inquisitions and murder to grow their religion, as they did not have decent moral arguments.

Regards

DL

Reciprocity is fair play, and I agree that like should be returned for like unless it does not suit ones agenda.

To tolerate the intolerant, for instance, is not reciprocity.

If the other cannot see the log in his eye, it should be pointed out.

Most are too obtuse though, especially in religions.

My definition is above.

No one argued against it.

I have a general definition. Don't you?

Regards

DL

"I'm not sure what you mean by this"

I mean that Jews have always put man above God, in recognition that all the notions about any god are man made.

Jesus even asks in scriptures, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most have, but not the intelligent who know what religions are all about.

"-- it certainly isn't a useful reduction of any religious view, especially one as complex as the Jewish approach to the world."

I see the Christian religion as a naturalistic religion, given that both it and nature praise sin and evil as necessary to God's plan to Christians and natures plan to the brighter who have discarded supernatural thinking as garbage thinking.  

See post 4.

Belief in Jewry has always been led by those who preach the oral traditions.

I do not think any Jew has ever been fool enough as to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.

Christians, on the other hand -----

Regards

DL

I have noted that no one wants to utter the name of Yahweh or Jesus in answer to this O.P.

I know why and so do Christians who cannot do decent apologetics for either of those vile and immoral god/s.

Regards

DL

The historic parts in their holy books are not explanations.

Regardless, the author is not here to explain his choice of words and neither is the scholar who quoted it.

I just call it myth and allegory and see it as foolish to believe in a literal way.

The Jews put man above god and that is good enough for Gnostic Christians and the other more intelligent religions that do the same.

They are doing what is intelligent as compared to those who put God above man.

Especially the genocidal, homophobic and misogynous Christian/Muslim god. 

Regards

DL

Thanks for this.

I think I agreed with you in my reply to Stephen.

Let me reprint ---

My simple definition for good and evil is, ----- what I like done to me is good, and what I do not like done to me is evil.

Thanks for this.

My simple definition for good and evil is, ----- what I like done to me is good, and what I do not like done to me is evil.

Regards

DL  

"Is evil real? Is good real?"

If you do not know what evil and good are, can I take it that you do not fight evil?

I think that good and evil are real, and that you and I would likely agree on which side a given situation is good or evil.

About 90 % start our morality with a reciprocity rule and that is why there is so much more good in the world than evil.

Regards

DL

Indeed. 

Please remember that we hold no supernatural beliefs and used our myth for arguing against the Christians when they knew that their story was also a myth.  

The inquisitors did a lot of lying to justify their many murders of better creeds.

I would not say that we see Jesus as divine. 

We see him as an Eastern mystic and hero of 1,000 faces as coined by Joseph Campbell. 

We kept the older and better thinking.

Whose name do you use for the first commandment?

Jesus who said “he comes to cure and not kill the afflicted”.

Yahweh says he will come to kill, not cure the afflicted.

The one who always kills, has some Jews calling Yahweh a evil god.

I think the term suits.

You could name Spirit, if you are a Trinitarian, but the spirit does not speak in the bible, except to those with a Jesus consciousness, or one who has risen to a Christ consciousness.

Gnostic Christians condemned Yahweh to hell way back when Christians had morals.

We put our myth against theirs and called their God evil, and then the good old inquisitions; instead of trying to win the argument.

Jesus and his Armageddon does not seem to be much better than the genocidal Yahweh.

Most who read this might not agree, --- but if you put any name other than yourself, --- as the spirit that judges the good or evil in the Christian God, --- then you might wonder why you venerate an evil God.

I name Spirit God as I will not go to hell where Yahweh and Jesus are bound to end.

 Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be Matthew.

People hate moral questions.

We are all sinners, thank God; who will sin by accepting to follow one of the Christian Gods?

IMO, Christianity had the potential to be the worlds best religion. It changed and is now failing.

I think it a shame that they will drag Gnostic Christianity down with it.

Who do you name for Commandment # 1?

Regards
DL

They all have brains, but ignore the moral part for the fellowship part.

They are poor examples of decent people, as the fathers basically have to hate their gay and female children.

That is a must in their homophobic and misogynous creeds.

Regards

DL

Not surprising, given that her majority of neighbors are likely the religious who dare not judge their god justly.

Regards

DL

Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?
 
Seems like a decent overall ideology.
 
Does your ideology include a clause that says you should raise hell against evil religions?
 
This, --- for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, --- is a part of my ideology/theology, given that I call myself a Gnostic Christian.
 
Does yours, and how do you exercise that degrading chore?
 
Regards
DL

Tip of the iceberg.

Gays and women have been religions longest running victims.

Strange how churches still preach that vile harmful garbage.

Who just said something about not complaining or caring about that here?

Regards

DL

 

I think we have ascertained your poor moral worth.

Go find someone of your low status.

Regards

DL

Etrn

There is no justification for genocide from a god who can cure as easily as kill.

Your views are stupid and immoral.

Your morals have been corrupted.

If you admire the biblical savior Jesus, you have never debated his morals. Especially his no divorce for women ansd substitutional punishment policies.

If you had, you would know how vile some of his non-Gnostic thinking is.

When you are ready, let me know.

Genocide is never the best option, even if you like the idea of having Jesus do one.

Regards

DL

Ya.

Let's not mention child rape.

The churches do not like that.

They just like to do it, and latter do the really larger infraction and have parents set the price of the rape.

Let's see, --- slavery is not legal, --- but selling my son or daughter's flesh to my church after their rape is.

Quite the religions, and quite the immoral god forsaken societies that allow it.

Regards

DL

Yet naturalistic thinking leads to a better non-genocidal a hole god.

Regards

DL

"So Christianity - a theistic religion - is a take off of naturalistic thinking which starts with the presupposition that there is no God? Where in the world did you learn that from?"

Now that is stupid, given that we are Gnostic Christians and follow the esoteric Jesus archetype to find God.

My view is that there is a God, and in our material dualism, that God is us.

 
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
   
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. 
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube
 
Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
 
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube


The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

Perhaps.

Armageddon makes Jesus quite evil.

I do not like the immoral savior ideas that immoral Christians will ignore.

I do not those who adore an evil genocidal god.

Regards

DL

"Let me clarify. You have given no biblical justification for your assertion that sinlessness will make humans go extinct."

If sin must be in us and be a necessary part of Yahweh's plan, which it clearly is as sung by Christians, and confirmed by scriptures, then without it we go extinct.

If you stop competing, or never start, you would go extinct.

You asked why you should look into evolutionary theology.

Perhaps to learn something.

I learned that Christianity is a take off on naturalistic thinking, which confirms the stupidity of supernatural beliefs. 

Regards

DL 

"What do you mean by "you"?"

Do you think we define that word differently?

Regards

DL

If we are accountable, as you say, then we cannot use a savior or scapegoat. Right?

So much for Jesus saving all.

Do you see it as a sin to abdicate ones responsibility and use Jesus in our steed?

Regards

DL 

Job 2;3 has Yahweh admitting to having been moved to sin by Satan.

It is stupid for you to quote what can be easily refuted or negated.

Regards

DL

"our opinions about what God is or is not has no bearing on reality."

You are not looking at the right places.

The opinions on god that the mainstream hold, has cause churches to preach homophobia and misogyny while our governments preach equality.

 You have a moral duty to fight that shit, but I guess you can't smell it in your reality.

Think of your own family line and you might get it.

Regards

DL 

I kind of agree on the word or label of atheist church, although I recognize why atheists are using the term.

I prefer the older " Mystery Schools."

It was an important distinction in the past showing where not to go for charity. That is not what the Mystery Schools were. 

They were more for the intelligentsia than the common illiterate.

They were guild driven schools for all of the arts and skills.

"Gnostics focus on eradication of ignorance."

Indeed, and without atheist churches, the old Mystery Schools of the past, we could not educate the ignorant back then or here and now.

We have a duty to the goal you recognize, but you would pull the rug out from under us by not having a soapbox to teach the ignorant from.

Rethink good buddy.

Regards

DL

"You have given no justification for your assertion that sinlessness will make humans go extinct."

I have but you did not get it.

It is obvious, but let me ----- give something to the debate/discussion.

Evolutionary theology posits that all we ever do as we evolve is cooperate or compete. 

Cooperation is seen as good because no loser is created.

Competition is seen as evil because it creates a loser to the competition.

All human to human conflict stems from us competing.

Take that necessary evil, sin to religion, and we go extinct.

That is why stupid Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

Do you see how it has to also be a part of natures plan?

Regards

DL

It is a shame you do not really want to consider both the Christian Original Sin concept and Jewish view or Original Virtue on this.

Bottom line.

You do not sin, you go extinct.

Sin is necessary to our evolution.

Regards

DL

I agree and think Jesus would disown the garbage Christianity we have today.

Homophobes and misogynous a hole, religions produce by the score.

 

Regards

DL

I agree but think religions to be synonymous with tribe.

Do you recognize your tribal nature?

Do you recognize, that as a social animal, you are likely in some kind of tribe or religion?

Do you recognize that we seek fellowship?

Even if you are a statist, that is still your tribe. 

What are your thoughts on atheist churches?

Regards

DL

Are you saying that God would logically want his great plan derailed?

As to the text, I am reporting what I read.

We are talking interpretation that are in conflict between Christian and Jewish interpretation of a Jewish myth.

Not wise to ignore them. Original Virtue and our passing the tests in Eden with out happy fault of sinning.

As I stated, without it we would go extinct.

Regards

DL

Worm Man?

Regards

DL

I have to laugh at the soft and pampered of today, who cannot dither out that tough times mean tough laws.

If we continue to destroy our environment, the old and harsh times will return.

Regards

DL

Do you have a material dualist view of life?

Do you think of you as a body and spirit/soul?

If you do, you would know that just as you were born thinking of yourself as the fittest human, your instincts are telling you that your spirit/soul part was also born thinking it was the fittest spirit and that to all should be,   --- God.

Nature implies that there is a God for you, and it is you.

 Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
   
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. 
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube
 
Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
 
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL 

Heaven and hell are states or perception and mind.

There is no supernatural in Gnostic Christianity and that is why we have decent theories.

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
 
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
 
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
 
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
 
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
 
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
 
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
 
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
 
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
 
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
 
Regards
DL

It is a coming of age yarn that is praised, along with sin, by all intelligent people.

Without sin and evil, we go extinct.

Christianity is just reporting what we have learned from nature.

If not for supernatural beliefs, all would know and recognize that fact.

Mind you, the Christian apologists don't even know what Christianity is.

Regards

DL

Was punishing Eve for what Adam did not an act of punishing kin?

Was Eve not kin to Adam, as well as all other women, that had to bear the same penalty?

Regards

DL

 

What do you see as the doctrine of Original Sin?

Have you compared it to the Jewish Original Virtue?

Please read my post above and indicate if Adam did the right thing in keeping God's plan on track.

Regards

DL

A difficult question.

In a sense, as Eve was punished for what the bible says is Adam's sin.

Eve was exonerated by scriptures that recognized that Eve was deceived and had no evil intent. 

Regardless, Christians sing of Adam's sin as being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

God planned sin, yet strangely punished us for keeping his plan on the rails.

Crazy that, but it matches natures master plan for us.

Without sin or evil, humanity would go extinct. No guff.

Regards

DL

 

I have an extensive library, but experience tells me that you are better off getting the latest.

Mine is at least 4 years old now and some have rejected my sources, without cause, in the past.

Laïcité or female imam in France, ask search words, are all you likely need.

If you somehow cannot find it, then I am here if you will accept my sources.  --- Warning. I am slow.

Regards

DL

If you define better by moral sense, I can easily wipe the floor with Christianity.

This is apparent in the fact that when challenged on moral issues, --- they all run away, --- or hide honest debate behind their supernatural mental shield/safe space. Where all the really evil Moral Cowards hide.

I am sure you have seen it many times.

As to morals, statistics show atheist as above the mainstream religious, as are secularists.

At one time I had put Gnostic Christianity above atheism due to the fact that they had yet to open atheist churches.

This Gnostic Christian cannot speak for all free thinkers and esoteric ecumenists, but that change made atheism as better and equaled it to Gnostic Christianity.

I do not know your definition of better, but the left is a lot more better in moral terms than the right.

The right had more value at one time and has helped religion, but it has now been made un-required and harmful with it's homophobia and misogyny.

The better people, morally speaking, will agree.  

Regards

DL