GnosticChristianBishop

You talked of all organized religions.

Were you including affiliated atheist churches?

I am all in for those Mystery Schools.

Beats loosing our kids to the right wing supernatural thinking syndrome.

Regards

DL

"Jesus, the Messiah can. "

Liar.

Only if Jesus ignores his own teachings, which I quoted.

I do not have to twist. You do.

Stop doing so or take your filthy self serving lies and shove off.

Regards

DL

I think your post applies more to lying preachers.

Think indulgences and how St. Peters was build on the backs of Temple Prostitutes.

Regards

DL

" Gnostic Christians aren't all atheists either"

No Gnostic Christian is an atheist. 

If one is, he will not call himself a Gnostic Christian.

BTW, stupid, Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Stop being small minded.

Regards

DL

You agree you should take responsibility, then put it on Jesus.

Who is to die for your sins?

If the price of sin is death, then Yahweh died in Job 2;3 Where Yahweh admits to being moved by Satan to sin.

As to Jesus, where is it written that an immortal Jesus/god can die?

Get the quote.

As to your "We don't use Jesus.  God sent the Messiah. This was not only moral justified it was necessary. "

God sent the messiah for you to use, and you say you refuse to do so.

Rather ungrateful that.

Regards

DL

No physicist worth his label will say that the Big Bang came from nothing.

There is always a small but really compact mass to explode.

Est. are from a sugar cube size to a basket ball.

Show any bonified physicist who says there was nothing before the Big Bang.

Regards

DL

Most Christians have to accept and swear the apostles creed, and that basically forces them to accept Jesus, immorally, as scapegoat/messiah.

Given the what, 3,000 sects, I am sure that there are exceptions, Gnostic Christianity being one of those.

Regards

DL

 

Don't hold your breath. Most Christians cannot do apologetics for this issue, as well as most of their immoral moral tenets.

There is no biblical justification for us abdicating our responsibilities and immorally using as scapegoat.

All that Jesus said shows this and thus he would see it as a sin.

Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me. He did not say ride me as your scapegoat.

The moment morals are at issue, Christians vanish.

Regards

DL

You seem to think that using Jesus as a messiah or scapegoat is a moral thing to do.

Care to argue for us sinning by abdicating our own responsibility for our sins, the way Jesus taught?

He taught top be responsible and here you are sinning by trying to abdicate you responsibility.

You would not teach your children to do what you are doing. 

Explain your poor morals, as compared to what Jesus taught, which follows.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

I think it strange that is we are to love good matter, that you would not see us hating the cursed matter that Christians have to see.

Regards

DL

I hate stupid ass holes.

Regards

DL

Selfless?

Not to the merchants he chased away from the temple.

Not if it is the Jesus who is said to have died for us.

Scapegoating is immoral, and for Jesus to ask us to sin by abdicating our responsibilities for our sins is another sin.

Regards

DL

That is not the Rome created Jesus.

That Jesus/Yahweh  has poor moral policies.

Just look at his no divorce for women and substitutional punishment policies.

Those are quite immoral and the tip of the iceberg.

Roll in Armageddon, and he becomes as big of a prick as Yahweh.

Regards

DL

 

Great way to communicate, stupid.

Nice if I knew what you were laughing at, but 9if that is your best -----.

Regards

DL

I have had my apotheosis or theosis already.

Most do not think those term to be speaking of anything real, but I would disagree with that.

Regards

DL

The Humans that are like Gods are those that are like Jesus.

Holy fuck, I hope you are wrong.

Yahweh had his Noah genocide and Jesus will have his Armageddon.

We like the Gnostic Jesus. He is a good person who wants to free us from religions, not slave us to one. 

We have to dislike the Jesus Constantine chose. Belief in him created the inquisitions. 

Armageddon would be proof that Jesus is evil. Right?

Regards

DL

Here is the Gnostic Christian view.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
 
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
 
The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it;  cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------
 
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
 
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
 
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
 
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
 
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
 
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
 
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
 
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
 
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
 
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
 
Regards
DL

"What are theist's honest opinion on atheists, vice versa?"

The right wings of politics and religions will not think highly of atheists, who are generally more left wing.

I have a hard time seeing theists ands honest opinion as a true statement.

How honest is a person who believes in the supernatural and cannot bad mouth his god?

Note that Job 2;3 has Yahweh admitting to Satan moving him to do evil.

Christians, even with that, will not attribute any sin to Yahweh.

Christians are moral cowards and have an immoral double moral standard where they forgive god for things that they would condemn a person for.

A double moral standard, or hypocrisy. Your judgement.

Regards

DL

"What does being in the image and likeness of God mean to you and how much should we consider ourselves to still be in his image?"

Here is what a Gnostic Christian  names his god.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
   
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. 
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link. 
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

Our views are indeed different.

We chose not to adore a genocidal garbage god, and call evil, evil, --- while Christians call that evil entity good.

We, demonstrably, have a free will, that is only limited by nature and physics.

 

Regards

DL

We are indeed like Gods.

In terms of creating the best rules and laws for us, and seeking the ideal set, we cannot help being what we invent.

Gods were not always supernatural.

Ancient emperors declared themselves to be Gods, and their sons, sons of god.

IMO, supernatural thinking is synonymous with stupid thinking.

Regards

DL 

"You're sort of a theistic atheist.....If that weren't contradictory enough."

An atheist will likely say that there is likely no supernatural god.

He would be correct IMO.

Knowing that most of us think in materialistic duality, body/soul way, ---- perhaps natural in our dualistic world, ---- and are born thinking ourselves the fittest in our lines, ---- a reality, ---- we would also think we were the fittest immaterial soul around.

The only reason I put Gnostic Christians above atheists, is that we led the way in showing atheists that the fellowship we all crave, will be given to their children by the stupid supernatural believing churches, and we knew enough to give our children,  a place to get fellowship without the brain dulling supernatural.

 

Tribalism/religionism are our human default positions, and atheists will cater to their children to save their mentality and morality.

Regards

DL

A belief position label is getting harder to nail down.

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of “atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

Regards

DL

Atheism is not just more reasonable, it is show8ing that the atheist ideology is more peace loving and law abiding than all the Western religions.

That means, that atheists who are not militantly trying to change minds, by both supporting atheist churches, and bad mouthing the lesser homophobic and misogynous religions and theologies, are not doing their duty to humanity.

 For evil to grow and all that.

Regards

DL

"(A)GNOSTIC = (WITHOUT)GNOSIS = no memory (of direct experience) of any "higher power(s)"

Gnosis, to this Gnostic Christian, has nothing to do with a higher power.

Here is a link that  defines Gnosis.  Gnosis - The Secret of Solomon's Temple - YouTube

There is no willed power higher than what humans can demonstrate.

Regards

DL

...Especially as related to standards of evidence, burden of proof, Biblical slavery, and the moral relativism of slavery being justified by "it was a different time and culture".

I am not sure if you are for or against what the ancients were doing. 

I have never read of any holy man badmouthing slavery in the distant past.

What would be your best advice to a slave in those days or to those who held slaves?

Regards

DL

I hear you.

If a Christian uses a free will argument on you, blow him off with scriptures that say we have none.

---------

 Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?
 
Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ
 
Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.
 
The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.
 
If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?
 
Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?
 
Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?
 
I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.
 
Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.
 
 
What is your choice of those two options?
 
Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.
 
I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.
 
What do you think is the truth?
 
Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?
 

----------

"I have to laugh when believers bleat " Oh but Jesus loves you all."

Yes, except for women and gays, which are half the worlds population.

All does not mean all when lying Christians use it.

Regards
DL

As I said above, I am my own teacher and moral guide and master.

So are you if you can define your god/master/yourself, as the highest authority over you.

I thought I said that well above, but perhaps failed.

Allen Watt's seems to have failed here as well. 

Regards

DL

Aren't labels  like what you are specifying, greatness etc. subjective?

Your description of greatness is not necessarily what I call greatness.

Some think Yahweh great, but I see him as a vile demiurge.

Do you see a great god as putting evil into our reality?

Natural religions have no problem of evil, but a supernatural god does.

Christianity sort of does, but gets out of it by singing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

Other than evolutionary theology, Christians are between a rock and a hard place and cannot justify the evil in Yahweh/Jesus.

Regards

DL

 

The same thing??

I see you do not know Gnostic Christianity.

Lesson 1.

No supernatural beliefs.

Lesson 2.

My god is likely the same as yours, only better, in terms of knowledge of what Gnostic Christianity is all about.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation and “I am”, represents the best rules and laws that we have found to live by.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
   
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail. 
Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link. 
On Becoming an Adult - YouTube

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL 

I don't know how many will lose their heads, but many, the majority if scriptures are correct, are to die.

On Jesus and his promised Armageddon.

Regards

DL

What god are you speaking of?

If Yahweh/Jesus, then how can you say they are good judges when their verdicts go to genocide and Armageddon?

Yahweh even murdered A & E by neglect and locking away the tree of life.

Would you trust a judge that murders?

Have you seen this good judgement?

Regards

DL

I agree that we should reject all fantasy when thinking of religions.

Gnostic Christianity did so when we called Yahweh a vile demiurge.

Even as many see all Christians as supernatural believers, Gnostic Christians have no supernatural beliefs.

Our myths and holy books were written to put against the Christian ones when everyone basically know that there was no supernatural.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
 
https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
 
Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html
 
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
 
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
 
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
 
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
 
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D
 
Regards
DL