GnosticChristianBishop

You feel the corruption right to your pocket, ignore that a world bank, regardless and in spite of it's government directors, can at least move that hand.

Think single issue, instead of all over the place, and see how easily that criminal hand can me pulled away from your empty pocket and nut sack with a single world bank.

Regards

DL

 

Which criminals?

Name names buddy.

Regards

DL

We can read.

If that is your best, we are done here.

Regards

DL

Again, mostly issues belied by scriptures.

I do agree on overall goodness and forgiveness and that is why I show why there is no such thing as hell.

A real God would not need it in his evolving perfect reality.

Do you see that evolving reality or are you lost to some supernatural fantasy?

You seem quite lost, given your putting so many lies out that are refuted by scriptures.

We will not last long with such poor apologetics.

Regards

DL 

I do not mean to insult, but you seem to have a direct pipeline to God, ---- given how you can read his genocidal mind so easily with all your claims, --- that are mostly belied by the bible.

I want to debate with you. Not your fictional God whose mouth you are stuffing with lies.

If those lies are about Yahweh, you are quoting a satanic God. Enjoy that evil.

Regards

DL

The messianic concept was an ancient Jewish prophesy of an angel being crucified and resurrected, not a human. 

Christianity turned it into an immoral human sacrifice yarn, instead of the animal scapegoat and forgiveness practice used by Jews in forgiving each other.

A pure and obvious distortion that is mostly ignored.

The logic is that the victim, not some God, has the first right to forgive, not some God watching his own perfect plan play out.

Regards

DL 

"Yes. This evil world doesnt deserve forgiveness by their own logical standards."

This is not demonstrable given that science shows how little free will we have.

Even Hitler has to be given some slack, when one considers that he was the end product of all who interacted with him.

Just like you and I are. 

Not much free will there, while at the same time we are all quite free enough to even kill ourselves.

A wise man would retract your foolish and unqualified statement.

Regards

DL

"Why would someone choose to feel bad? Isnt it better to feel good?"

Why was Jesus mostly feeling bad?

Are we not asked to pick up our own crosses and follow his ways, as scriptures say we must?

The more bad I feel, the more love is returned. We live in duality.

Regards

DL

If the  Jesus you refer to is Yahweh, the genocidal one, then Jesus belongs in hell with his deadbeat dad. 

For your files though, given that Christians sing that Adam's sin is a happy fault and necessary to God's plan, they, like Jesus, must sin to gain heaven.

Be happy for your sinning. Nature demands it, ---- and Christianity is just mimicking nature. 

I like the Gnostic Christian Jesus but that other Jesus and his Armageddon are hell bound; not that evil concept exists.

Regards

DL

Have you looked at the morals attached to your view?

Most Christians do not.

I agree. 

Nice to see the continuing perfection of our evolution though, right?

Science does indicate that, given our history, this, demonstrably, is the best that things can be.

Given that we are such a rich world, I wonder why we maintain poverty at all.

I do not see the downfall you do. 

Name an evil issue and show your stats. Mine show more good than evil.

Regards

DL

The criminal element hates a one world governance; that makesme for it.  You?

 Given my old criminal mind and delinquent attitude; I knowthat if I was my old self, I would hate the notion of a one world government.  

Such a bank would prevent me from talking advantage of thewhite economy.

Fair taxation makes my criminal wallet lose twofold. I losemy gain and now must pay and play fair. Bummer.

Given my reform and apotheosis, I feel it is my duty to tellall my fellow white economy taxpayers, we all pay taxes, and it is foolish notto have a fair system.

Leaving unfair advantage to the black market does not seemlike a good idea. Right?

I think I would vote for a One World Government, just to getthe One World Bank.

If your government preaches against a One World Government,they are voting with the criminals who hate the idea. 

Economically speaking; given that single source bankinggovernance is easy, --- I think that moving a huge economic advantage from theblack market to our white market, --- is a good idea.

I estimate that we all get a 30% raise in pay.

I am bought off. You?

Regards.

DL

Do you trust your controller now?

Changing from on controller to another would change nothing except give you a 30 % raise.

Regards

DL

The criminal element hates a one world governance; that makesme for it.  What do you think?

Given my old criminal mind and delinquent attitude; I knowthat if I was my old self, I would hate the notion of a one world government.

Such a bank would prevent me from talking advantage of thewhite economy.

Fair taxation makes my criminal wallet lose twofold. I losemy gain and now must pay fair.

Given my reform and apotheosis, I feel it is my duty to tellall my fellow white economy taxpayers, we all pay taxes, and it is foolish notto have a fair system.  

Leaving unfair advantage to the black market does not seemlike a good idea.

 I think I would vote for a One World Government, just to getthe One World Bank.

If your government preaches against a One World Government,they are voting with the criminals who hate the idea. Economically speaking; given that single source bankinggovernance is easy, --- I think that moving a huge economic advantage from theblack market to our white market, --- is a good idea.  

You?

Regards.

DL

A stupid bot can do better.

Regards

DL

I thank the great God of the Left for creating Trump.

He converted more right wingers to the left than any other person that I know.

It is one thing for a right winger to publicly hold his nose while voting for the party, "loyally", in spite of it's poor moral showing, but quite another thing to do it when privately voting.

The right is too rightist, but they are not stupid or disloyal to the country as a whole.

Hail Trump for moving his party to the left.

Regards

DL 

Point to you.

I concentrated on your lies.

You have no clue as to what a demon is.

Regards

DL

If you gather the stats on morality over all, atheist put the religious to shame world wide.

Atheists are just too damned slow to offer the intelligent and moral now trapped in their garbage religious tribes, a better option for the social aspects or our instinctive tribalism.

Atheists, even though more moral, peace loving and law abiding than the religious, are slow on fellowship issues.

Regards

DL

"Jesus drove out demons with prayer and fasting"

Many can according to scriptures.

I have done the same since my apotheosis.

The way you meant it, the supernatural way, it is a lie in it's phrasing that you cannot possibly prove.

Stick to facts please. 

Regards

DL 

"We need to defeat evil" 

Good and evil have relationship in our dualistic reality.

If we defeat evil, what happens to good?

If we take the evil out of our evolution by not competing, we have less good and are thus weakening our species.

Right?

Perhaps we should just use evil in a more civilized way.

Christians seemed to as they continue to sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

You see how it is, right?

We should not defeat evil then. Right?

That makes the bible correct, where it says that God created evil for his pleasure.

If you cannot see the way God and I see, catch up.

Regards

DL

How exactly does prayer reduce evil?

Einstein would look at praying people and see that they have been praying forever, without a result, while expecting a different result.

IOWs. Einstein's definition of  people who pray to some supernatural imaginary God.

Praying, other than to ones self, to get ones self in gear to solve whatever the prayer is, is a foolish and perhaps insane thing to do.

Show where over the many years, where praying ever paid off, except for lying preachers.

Regards

DL

Something supernatural could though. 

Tell us how you know this as a fact. Tell us of your personal encounter with the supernatural that advised you.

Have you read Dragon in my Garage?

Regards

DL

Saying is easy.

Showing is hard, stupid.

Regards

DL

"The punishment for sin has been paid by God's Son..."

Compare your thinking to what Jesus taught.

On Jesus dying for Christians from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
 
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat. Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

===================

"That people can arrive at moral conclusions without Christianity has nothing to do with whether the Christian standard is correct."

If an opposing standards can be argued to be better, like the secular and free nations preaching for more equality, while some vile religions preach the opposite, should the inferior Christian standard be forced out of Christianity?

They thought it ok to have their inquisitions force other.

Do unto other says Christians should not mind being forced.  Right?

We would not sink to their level and kill, but brutal indoctrination, like they use on their children, is also reciprocity and fair play.

In a real holy judgement, all would be forced to the better Gnostic Christianity.

We remember the good Christianity that capture the world, and live it after apotheosis, something Christians cannot even spell.

  

Regards

DL

  

On what basis would we agree? What standard do we have to determine what punishment each crime deserves?

Ever hear of a victim report.

Who but the victim should choose the punishment?

Not some God who cannot be made a victim. Poor poor God.

How the hell would he know how to judge fairly?

Hell, his first judicial decision in scriptures is the immoral concept of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and ignoring the victims.

What kind of incompetent judge or God would ignore the victim?

That is why your bible tells us to judge and not God.

Try reading your bible junior Christian.

Regards

DL

Full agreement save this.

"No one directs our fate."

Strongly disagree.

We are all free agents in this reality together.

I choose and renew that choice  --- often ---,  to be a bully to the liars who call themselves believers in vile and immoral Gods.

They hide behind supernatural lies, while I keep burying them in their own biblical truth.

Regards

DL

"But if you wish to say that God's standards are wrong, on what basis can you make that claim? By what objective standard of morality can you say that His standards are wrong? And if you think morality is subjective, then "I subjectively disagree with God's standards" is not at all convincing."

Most moral issues are subjective, but I have one that I will offer as objective, and a true good, without an evil side, even as that goes against my normal pure dualistic thinking.

I Offer that killing when one is also able to cure is immoral.

To cure instead of kill is the moral position.

God is demonstrably evil in nature, as evidenced by his killings, if the literature is to be believed literally. I E. Noah's flood and Constantine's Jesus' Armageddon. Not the Gnostic Christian Jesus.

The moral position for God can also be found in the bible, but Christians do not read those parts, because the negate the need for a hell.

I learn a lot when getting Christians to discredit their own bible and beliefs.

If you do not like or accept my offering, give us an example or two of your objective moral tenets.

I cannot think of another.

Regards

DL

   

"Yes. My knowledge of what it would do has no bearing on the fact that it freely chose to do something wrong."

More lies, to me.

As to your bogus free will argument. you ignore where your bible says we are controlled by God's grace,  so here is more scriptures for you to ignore. I also gave an argument you cannot refute, junior Christian.

Bolded so you can find it.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.
 
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.
           
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
 
This indicates that Jesus had no choice.
 
If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
 
God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.
 
This then begs the question.
 
What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?
 
Only an insane and immoral God. That’s who.
 
The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.
 
One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.
 
------------------------
 
Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.
 
That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."
 
But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.
 
If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.
 
 
Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
 
 
Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.
 
 Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.
 
Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.
 
Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.
 
Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.
 
This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.
 
Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.
 
There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.
 
Regards
DL 
 
-----------------------
Evolutionary theology.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9
 

God in scriptures begins with God commanding Adam and Eve to reproduce.

Commands are incompatible with free will.

Especially when the next command denies Adam and Eve the knowledge that they were naked and that they could reproduce.

Eve and Satan made the right choice and that is why you sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth and pick a side.

I note that you maintain your stupid position, --- that the breasts you see on Satan in the Expulsion belong on a man.

You must be deformed.

Regards

DL

Satan is a he.

Satan is a she, logically, naturally and in the Vatican art.

Did you look at the Expulsion painting?

If those are a man's breasts to your eyes, get some glasses.

Regards

DL

Please do not believe that free will from God B.S.

Here are the quotes that prove our friend either does not know the bible or is a liar.

------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?
 
Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ
 
Those quotes seem to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.
 
The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.
 
If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?
 
Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?
 
Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?
 
I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.
 
Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.
  
What is your choice of those two options?
 
Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.
 
I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.
 
What do you think is the truth?
 
Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?
 
Regards
DL
 

"Why are we even talking about the concept of God?"

Because of the way too many God believers who are abusing LGBTQ+ women, --- as a normal part of their vile lives.

Know and fight your enemy is why, as that is the moral thing to do. 

Regards

DL

Growing?

My stats show shrinking.

So do the many empty churches on the market.

I have been promoting equality and you read the opposite.

Reading comprehension may not be your forte.

Regards

DL

"Christianity is true, nor does it have anything to do with whether universalism is true."

What does true mean to you here?

True that Christianity is a immoral religion?

True that universalism is the way to think?

Regards

DL

"I wouldn't say that it was planned, but it was the result of our own actions."

Do you think A & E should have remained ignorant of all knowledge, even reproduction and knowing they were naked?

You do recognize that the tree of knowledge is the tree of all possible knowledge. Right?

Do you think Adam did the right thing?

If not, why do you Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan?

As to Satan being male, go check the Vatican Expulsion painting.

If you think those breasts on Satan belong on a man. do not return.

In evolutionary terms, women are our prize and the source of all human against human evil.

They make men compete and create losers. Those losers are the evil part of evolution, but without it, we go extinct.

Embrace that evil, as it is in a big good envelope.

Regards

DL

 "We just disagree with them."

On the love hate or harm care response graph line, that modern moralists use, that is the hate side.

If you are to put sexual and gender issues above the love issue in value, that is hardly a way to do unto others, which is suposed to be what Christianity is all about.

Jesus said that what you do to the lowest you do to me.

Let me rephrase what I see you saying; Christians disagree with Jesus and punish where there is no victim and will embrace homophobia and misogyny.

That, I think is closer, to Christian right wing thinking.

That is why the more moral are leaving in droves.

Regards

DL

===============================

To your first.

You are saying that humans planned their own fall.

Was Satan, the female who made us fall, not created to do that perfect sin creating thing in your God's plan?

Or was the initiation of sin all Yahweh? 

To your last.

I do not deny the all creative forces around us as evolving perfection.

It is the believers who would divide and hate much of that perfection.

They pray for Jesus and his own inquisition and mass murdering.

Regards

DL 

Immoral leadership.

As we speak, they have their vile churches preach for the inequality of souls, based on what the body does.

Even, according to their belief system, the bodies are doing what their God given souls and God created them to do.

All who are not universalists are denying their own God's ability to create perfection.

They have no real faith in their God and cannot argue his way.

All they have ever had was inquisitions and jihads.

Ask anyone in the better religions that the Satanic ones tried to destroy. 

Regards

DL

Atheist churches belie your thinking.

The misguided right wing does more harm than the left.

Do not make such stupid statements, as religions continue to shrink.

Regards

DL

I agree that the Christian theology should be based on the Golden Rule.

In this case, homophobia and misogyny has Christians doing the opposite, by design.

Regards

DL 

"Yes, it is. So that is why God came down, and died for us, by his choice. That is why it is so beautiful."

I thought that Christians thought God to be immortal.

Where do the scriptures say that Yahweh can die?

When Jesus taught these, was he not saying that it is immoral for us to even want a scapegoat?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Regards

DL

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

Would you not follow Adam and gain what he did?

Regards

DL

You sure deflected into a lot of topics that I would argue against.

You want a formal debate and show you cannot follow an issue or reply to points.

My issue with Yahweh was shown in my Job 2;3 reply, --- which you ignored, --- which has God admitting to being evil, --- and you just reply with a fucking "God is Good, ---- without negating or replying to my argument.

You win all arguments that way, so a formal debate would likely be a waste of time.

Regards

DL

  

U C 20/20 on Christian apologists.

I do not care when they believe B S, but when they start promoting their genocidal homophobic God, a fully immoral God, then I dig in.

It has to be about 20 years since most major God religions started complaining about their own lack of decent apologists.

When the moral majority abandons religion, they do not go back.

Regards

DL

Name this more evil than Yahweh God, and tell us why Yahweh created one who is more evil than himself?

In our dualistic reality, that would make that God more good as well. Right?

Regards

DL

Break the first commandment and name the one you put above God's for evil.

He said he created evil for his pleasure and here you are wanting to give some other God of evil the pleasure.

Yahweh will be angry with you.

Still want a formal debate?

Regards

DL

Question for you on how you perceive reality.

Are you a dualistic thinker?

That is usually describes as a body/souls or body/spirit way.

All but 5% of us claim to think dualistically.

If you do, your non-physical or inner self is your highest ideal and thus, in a sense, your God. 

Right?

That would be you thinking like a Gnostic Christian.

 Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.
 
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
 
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
 
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
Allan Watts explains those quotes in detail.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw
 
Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU
 
The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.
 
Gnosis enlightens adults.
 
Regards
DL
 

I thought we were going to do just that here.

Who referees in the formal debates?

I would love a debate on morals, but whenever such a topic is proposed, Christians just run away,  after the usual insult are launched.

 

I am a Gnostic Christian with decent arguments and all they ever had was inquisitor tactics.

Regards

DL