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If it could be proven, shown and demonstrated that a God exists, what implications would arise for you personally?

What would you want out of discovering this knowledge?

Does God exist?

Yes, no or I don't know?

Next, give an explanation for what you believe is sufficient reasoning of your answer. Any explanation that claims simply "there is no evidence God exists" will be dismissed for lack of intelligent thought, in other words that explanation won't be good enough for this topic. Be creative and at least try and come up with an original thought that supports your theory. For this topic, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. The indication that God exists is very strong, so there needs to be a clear indication of the contrary.

There also needs to be clear explanation for why you believe God exists, to be fair. So if you want to be taken seriously you'll have to give sufficient reasoning. Those who don't know, you're not off the hook...please explain, with all the information available why you believe it's justified to claim you don't know.

Does Human experience (related to Theism) account for the existence of God?

I'm not asking if you think it is good enough to prove to you the existence of God, but if you think human experience throughout history accounts for God's spiritual presence. By answering yes to this question, it does not mean you believe God exists but it does mean you would concede that the full scope of spiritual experience indicates God exists in some way, perhaps.

After all, if God did not exist how could there be any experience of that nature? if no transcendent reality exists, how could there be any knowledge of it?

If you answer no, without speculating, please explain why human experience can't be attributed to the existence of a Creator.

Okay so we all know what everyone dislikes about religion and concepts about God, the Bible, moral ideologies, laws, rules and so forth. For this topic I would like to reach beyond all of that baloney. This is for everyone to participate not just religious people. For this topic I want to erase mans preconceived ideas and religions contributions about God and I want everyone to feel completely free to express themselves. I would like to recreate what we know about God, spirituality and creation as if we all have our own say in what happens here. Lets presume God does exist but not in the average way we all depict God, in others words we want to strip away religious influence and anything attached to that, that would control our output here.

Lets say we all know we originate with God, and we are all free to engage creation as we so wish, free to depict God as we see is fair. Give me some idea of what would totally satisfy you as a free agent within creation to express yourself and what you feel about God as your own God...develop whatever you want, to create society in any way you wish as you see would fit you best, tell me what you think about God or what you think God would be like. Tell me what would make you happy, what would be cool, what would you imagine God like, how you would see everything play out. Tell me what you would do, what you would create if you had complete freedom to do anything you would want. Or how you think God would rule creation, or if you believe God wouldn't care to. Basically just say whatever you want, the first thing you innately feel about God's existence as if you knew God yourself, just say whatever it is that pops into your thoughts.

If you're really feeling creative I want you to imagine that once you leave planet earth, you are allowed to create your own world, and other souls are allowed to choose to live there....what would you do, what would it be like, what kind of people would you allow there? what objectives would you establish, would there be any purpose, would there be any regulations, would there be any specific things that set it apart from our normal experience? I want to see some real creativity here, the sky is the limit but I want each person to feel completely and creatively free to express themselves in any way they want understanding that they are eternal, and that some form of God exists. If you wish to be a smart azz okay fine, nothing knew there but please think about it. 

I'm going to offer some guidelines here as a way to establish some dynamics, take em or leave em.

-The earth is only one planet out of trillions of places that exist that contain life. You could keep it the way it is, or you could completely change it

-You are an eternal agency

-You as a soul, are not restricted to only earth in your experiences

-The universe is only one out of a series of multiverses

-There are several planes of existence, each plane is set up like a universe where there are virtually countless galaxies and planets

-There only one law that exists, its a moral law of cause and effect meaning that you can do whatever you want, but when you cause harm to any other soul you must reap the effect of that choice. If you don't like that law, tell me what law you would set into effect if you only had one choice

Atheists, why is it you feel that Theism as a proposition to be something you perceive as absurd or ridiculous? the reactions and comments through all the years I've been involved in these discussions basically tell me that creation as a philosophical option is regarded by atheists as something that is unintelligent (stupidity), influenced primarily through indoctrination (and wishful thinking) or the results of mental issues (that's my fav lol)...

I'd like to know what is so superior about interpreting the universe as a product of matter rather than a product of intelligent work, I mean it simply comes down to what is more obvious to the person's estimations. Maybe Theism isn't that absurd, unintelligent or just the products of wishful thinking? The topics I've created recently serve to provide some decent guidelines of how the universe is interpreted as a product of God without the need for stupidity, indoctrination and wishing things to be the case.

Even "if" Theists were indoctrinated, stupid and or mentally ill none of those factors justifies the rejection of Theism as a strong proposition. Are religions and their assessments and rules stupid? it's possible I suppose but......it is completely irrelevant to whether or not God exists, so what's with the negative attitude towards it? why be so adamant about something that could have some good reasons to consider? possibilities (logical possibilities) should always be looked into as worthy to be considered. It's almost as if atheists have been programed/brainwashed to automatically assume anything related to God is just nonsense, and to me this seems to foster close-mindedness to the point where any other options are just off the table if it doesn't coddle materialism or anti-theism.

And TBH there are only two options! and interpreting the universe as matter being the fundamental substance of the universe is not that intelligent, not that thought provoking and not that superior. IMO it doesn't take much thought or consideration to adopt such a worldview so it makes me wonder how such a mindset that anything related to Theism is just inferior.

Maybe nobody will admit to that but that is my assessment and no, this does not include all atheists but it's a general observation. All you have to do is follow any topic in this religious forum and you see anger, sarcasm, mocking, pride, smug comments, contention, rudeness, vulgar attitudes, hatred, close-mindedness all directed at topics related to God or anything of the like.

Now to be fair to atheists I am well aware of how you've been treated, at least in the past but theists of all kinds have also been persecuted so that doesn't just apply to atheists. I'm not stupid, I'm well informed of how snot-nosed religious people are prone to condemn unbelievers and anyone that doesn't support their special ideas of the world. I'm sick of that too, but at some point we all need to move past that and be open-minded of each others knowledge. In todays world, it's not so much the case where any of you atheists are being ridiculed or persecuted and actually it seems to be more the case that Theists are ridiculed especially in what seems to be a majority of a secular environment.

If we get past the immaturity and mistakes of humans and look squarely at the only two opposing propositions being offered, or that are available, then it would make this a much more approachable subject. Being stupid from either side of the coin does not effect the reality of either premise, so there should never be any presumptuous attitudes towards people that become an obstacle of considering either view.

Why do I even care what you think? well it doesn't really matter in terms of who you are as a person or how you lead your own life. I really only care because I'd rather you see the truth behind the universe and what the implications are for you as a soul. I know that when your physical body dies you'll be present within the next experience and so I know that you could have been apart of something much greater than what you thought was possible, or at minimum aware of it and prepared for it. You could have used your time here to extend your relations beyond what you thought were the limits of what you assumed exists. This does not condemn you in any way though, this is not about judging or condemnation but purely about my desire that all souls know how beautiful creation is and how dynamic the Creator is and how that could relate to you personally. 

There are a lot of threads titled "AMA" that usually refers to the person creating the topic but this one will be,

Ask me anything about God, deism, the soul, creation, religion, spirituality or anything related! There won't be any bias as I will not use any specific religious source to answer the questions unless you have a question specifically about religion. That's not to say the answer won't reflect what is taught by religion as some things are unavoidable because there are universal factors that are involved but overall I'll just answer without an appeal to scripture unless otherwise asked. It can be an objection OR an inquiry, all questions or objections are on the table. 

I've heard just about enough of the widespread presumption about those who interpret the universe as a product of intelligence assume it so because we "want it that way", and because we "want it that way" we base all of our observations through that wishful way of thinking.

What a bunch of nonsense, it's disrespectful and downright interruptive to intellectual progress and in no way is it a productive way to determine the truth of what we are all here for. Get a grip, those of you who are either atheists or those who maintain a materialistic ideology of the world have no more of a grounded, intelligent interpretation of the universe through observation and evidence than Theists do. This has nothing to do with what anybody wants, it's not an emotional evaluation, that is not the factor that is involved in making a determination whether or not the universe is more than a product of matter and material.

It is very insulting, at least to a guy like me, who has spent countless hours, years and most of his life weighing evidence and sifting through information to uphold the most accurate way of making decisions and conclusions. I'm also a guy who has had many spiritual encounters and those experiences had nothing to do with what I "wanted", rather they were thrusted upon me and I observed them from a position of learning and curiosity. Never has it crossed my mind that my beliefs (if you wish to label them that) would be based on what I wish to be the case, that's so far from the truth whenever I read someone making that assumption it disgusts me.

To me, it seems like a way for the opposition to make themselves feel superior and really it simply is a way to stifle progress in a conversation. I guess it's easier for the guy that happens to be an atheist to assume the other guy is just a product of what he wishes to be the case, and again it's downright dirty! it is a very demeaning condescending accusation to say the least.

As I've been saying in this forum, there's really only two interpretations we have to choose from in regards to the origins of the universe, and with the universe being the target of this subject it's either a product of matter or a product of intelligence. This is not rocket science, it's not an emotional issue either and so it's not that hard to make an educated well-formed estimation which interpretation is probably most likely true. In my observations over the years, it seems to me that Atheists and those who interpret the universe from a materialistic perspective get off on feeling superior to their Theistic counterparts. They get off on believing the idea that somehow they've made a more educated assessment of the world and then they walk around acting all high and mighty. This is not directed towards all Atheists, some of whom I have engaged with are very beautiful people! very thoughtful and very bright individuals.

But let me make this clear, it doesn't amount to wishful thinking to have a theistic interpretation of the universe. There are many ways to make that assessment and what we "want" has no bearing on that decision. I'm not saying that there's no such a thing as confirmation bias or that maybe some individuals want their beliefs to be true, but overall in a forum like this one where we are all here to establish logical and educated estimations those types of assumptions are useless, it just makes the person asserting those claims look immature and ridiculous.

I come here to show there's much more to the equation than indoctrination and wishful thinking by presenting well thought out and unbiased content. So it is a slap in the face when I read some snotnose making such absurd claims and then actually believing them. There's nothing superior about interpreting the universe as a product of matter as opposed to a product of mind and thought, nothing at all actually and there's no more evidence in favor of that position than there is for the other. As a matter of fact, materialists like to fancy themselves as ones who have the evidence on their side as if somehow science supports their views lol, it doesn't. We use the scientific method to understand the processes of the universe and how they work, but science is a neutral study and those processes can be just as much interpreted as products of intelligent work than as products of mechanical matter. Science does not make additional claims it cannot account for, it's not an ideology or a worldview. Atheists and materialists interpret the works of science just as Theists interpret the same body of works...and they can because again, science is a neutral study it is not a materialistic or atheistic methodology.

The fact that the universe absolutely appears to be a product of intelligence has nothing to do with what "I want", the fact that there are countless spiritual encounters across the globe in every culture and on every continent has nothing to do with what I want. I can't change the fact that many religions and religious cultures have come to the same conclusions I have and that had nothing to do with me. I had zero influence on any of that and I can't change that I'm simply observing it. All the indicators that a Creator exists has nothing to do with what I want, my own experiences and my own observations of the world have nothing to do with what I want. I'm a person observing the world from a neutral position trying to make the most accurate assessments possible according to what I have to work with, and again, has nothing to do with what I want.

I can only make the assumption that other Theists are using the same honest and sincere evaluations to make their determinations, and to me it's a cheap shot for anyone to assert another's position to be a product of what they want to be the case. So if you're a person making this assumption back up a few steps, take a breath and realize that your position holds no more water than your brothers who hold a theistic view of the world, at least in terms of honest sincerity of heart and curiosity....and each interpretation has a legit premise and foundation. Interpreting the world Theistically doesn't rely on wishful thinking or confirmation bias, it is one out of two options that our existence originated and at least according to me all the logic follows and is held up by rationale and evidence. Materialism is not a superior option although it can be accepted by the beholder obviously as a stronger interpretation. However, being humble about your brothers opposing views will only help your quest for truth about our world. Asserting nasty and hasty generalizations about other possibilities and those who seek them will only make you less of a person, and make your views of the world shallow and less approachable.

Although both materialism and theism are in stark contrast to one another a person can really only make one out of two estimations and so to accuse the other party of being intellectually inferior and only estimating according to "what they want" is a very pompous assertion when in reality it simply comes down to what is more obvious to the person holding the view. We should come to the table first assuming that the person we are debating has made the same conclusions out of sincerity as our own selves. 

Some random thoughts....this is not an argument, just comparing thought processes.

Proponents of a purely natural and materialistic means of the universe appearing tend to look at the order of operations backwards compared to the Creationist.

Materialist/Naturalist- processes= results= intelligence. (Matter over mind)

Theist/Creationist-  intelligence= processes= results. (Mind over matter)

The Materialist sees intelligence as the results of processes whereas the Theist sees that processes are the results of intelligence...(intelligence as to why processes occur.)

The Materialist sees the results (of our universe) as a byproduct of the process, the Theist sees processes as a production intended for the results.

To the Materialist the outcome is secondary (incidental) to the process, to the Theist the process is secondary to the outcome.

The Materialist trusts that the processes are why the results occurred whereas the Theist believes that the results are why the process occurs and intelligence as to why there is a process.

Processes are obviously why we have the results of our universe, only the naturalist puts a question mark before the results to understand why and how they occurred whereas the Theist puts a question mark not only before the results but also before the processes to understand why and how processes occurred.

The Naturalist sees no reason to question why processes occur, the Theists sees reason to question why processes occur.

The Naturalist sees no intention in the production of our universe whereas the Theist sees intention in the products of our world.

The Materialist affirms no intelligence in any given process but the Theist affirms that the processes are intelligent.

The Materialist asserts no intelligence is needed to generate a process compared to the Theist who claims intelligence is needed to generate anything of a process.

It is apparent to the Naturalist/Materialist that processes and inanimate forces can spontaneously generate processes to bring things into existence whereas the Theist asserts that a mind (intelligence) is mandatory to understand how something should work/unfold that they may exist.

The materialist believes that what is needed is secondary to what exists, and the Theist believes that what exists is secondary to what is needed....(what is needed is foremost to what exists).

The Materialist believes that there is first "light, heat and element" and then the byproducts are the resultant of what needs them, as opposed to the Theist who believes that light, heat and element are what exists to support what needs them.

What is needed are the effects of what exists (materialist) whereas what exists are the effects of what is needed (theist).

The Materialist asserts that the earth and its relative position is why bodies exist as compared to the Theist who asserts that bodies are why the earth and its relative position exists.

So the Materialist accepts that an ecosystem exists due to the arrangement of planetary forces while the Theist accepts that an ecosystem is why a planetary arrangement exists, that it may flourish. 

So the Naturalist assumes that a planetary arrangement has zero intention and the Theist assumes it exists as it is because of intention.

And the Naturalist assumes that the fundamental forces of nature determine all that exists as opposed to the Theist that accepts the forces of nature exist to support all that exists. 

Of course these wouldn't be the only options that one could speculate on, but just as a thought experiment....

Here is what I would like to correlate this hypothetical with in our own observations of spiritual experiences as a whole....

The point I would like to make here to tie it all together is that there's an obvious range of communication and activity occurring within the spiritual domain that takes place all around us since man has began to articulate. Could this explain or be a good analogy of how it is possible there's an independent wave of communication and experiences that take place within ranges of conscious frequencies apart from the physical frequency? maybe if we desired or learned how to change channels on this wavelength of frequencies we could pick up alternative stations. If we always focus in primarily on the physical channel we opt out on all other possible channels of communication.

I've tried this before but didn't get a good response but let's try it again. Pretend the Bible doesn't exist and all the little things you hate about it and religion, while we're at it let's assume God exists just for this thread. The reason for this would be so that you can concoct questions and ideas about God without the judgement of the Bible in the way. Believe it or not the Creator exists with or without the Bible, in other words the Bible doesn't dictate anything. What it does do in many cases, is give you some ideas and clues about the mysteries of spirituality however perfection is out of the question so at some point you will need to get over it. But....if it's something that annoys you and you can't get over the mistakes within it then all is not lost, the Creator still exists and so is the nature of your being to understand that reality. Forget about it for just this moment, let the influence of Christianity go...let's get a little deeper in this topic, give me what you got, questions, arguments or ideas about God and the soul that have no relevance to the Bible.

Have you counted out God as a source for the origins of our existence because of what you trust to be purely "natural" processes, AKA evolution?

Evolutionists/Atheists what if what you thought to be a natural phenomenon was actually a conscious process manifested by a Creator?

I'm looking for more than a "God is not needed" assertion (for this topic) because I will be positing that the actual processes are put into action by the Creator. I want to know if you think it's possible that the processes we observe in our universe through science could be compatible with Theism. If it's not possible, give me your best reason why.

So around these parts mostly the discussions revolve around whether or not God exists, the "Bible is immoral" and or which religion is correct blah blah blah ect ect....how about we do something a little different and discuss/debate assuming a Creator and the soul exists and that religion for this topic is irrelevant, since it seems no progress can be made on whether or not God does exist or why there are so many religions (even though I've offered decent propositions) how about we have a topic that assumes Theism true (specific gods irrelevant)....any questions or propositions are welcome. Agnostics, it would be good to discuss this with you more than the atheist preachers of this site we need more middle ground curiosity.

Isn't there any non-believer or agnostic curious about a Creator "if" It exists? and what that means to us/you? it's obvious that some people find Theism to be absurd or stupid but is it not a fascinating inquiry to anyone? if it is fascinating to you ask whatever you want, or bring up whatever issues you have about Theism or spirituality and not just the Bible.

Theists, Atheists and Agnostics doesn't matter really, let's discuss deeper issues no matter what belief you may have. Theists this is for you too, questions are for everyone even if you have religious beliefs! the Theistic community would do a lot better if they collaborated more rather than argue.

The more you understand creation and Theism the more it may seem more realistic to you or something you could consider, and it's not always the Theists that know about God or spirituality believe it or not. You/we all come from the same Source no matter the belief so you may have intuitions and ideas about God that are correct, you are not an outsider or someone that knows nothing, feel free to bring some unique thoughts forward, or unique questions...I want to hear more from non-believers and their ideas/questions about God or the afterlife. If you have ideas or intuitions about any of this feel free to share and elaborate on it.

I'm not responding to any posts that are uninteresting or insulting.

….The Creator is not as stupid as people make God out to be

Faith is an action that produces results, not empty beliefs with no reason to believe in them. It is a spiritual element based on trust and confidence so that the individual may develop substance and effective power to overcome obstacles

Spirituality is objective not subjective

God cares for the individual soul, not specific groups of people and special clubs

God does not preordain some people in heaven and some in hell

Hell is not an eternal torture pit, it's a temporal prison for crimes committed against creation

God does not create evil, evil is produced through individual motives it is not a thing rather a course of action

God does not hide from people, rather spirituality is a process and God wants the soul to learn from that process and part of that cultivation involves a much deeper objective than for God just to appear to people. In other words there is a reason God wants you to dig deeper

God does not form the individualized soul with preexisting content and conditions, content and conditions are developed through many factors which involves the soul and its desires and perceptions. God creates the soul with a creative imagination, but not with a predisposition

God does not control everything or predestinate the souls choices. God grants the soul the ability to become a co-creator in creation without intruding on its abilities, attributes and decisions

Spirituality does not cause or make people do evil and stupid things, the person was already evil, unintelligent and stupid, beliefs are irrelevant to that

Theism is not without evidence, does not lack evidence rather spirituality is SIMPLY of a different nature than that which we observe in the physical aspect of our experience and quite frankly is chock full of evidence that correlates with that specific nature

God is not limited to one religion, one belief, one universe or one or two places of an afterlife. Rather religion is limited, the universe is limited and our personal experiences are limited. God is eternal and unimaginably creative and unlimited

God is not rigid, mean or one-dimensional. God expresses itself through creation in so many ways and is extremely dynamic

God is not limited to our personal perceptions and so be careful how you label and judge God

God is not stupid and if the average person knew what exists within the God-worlds they would be shocked on so many levels

God has a specific, personal journey for each soul and no one is left behind, you are all a part of the very heart of the Creator

The old adage "wishful thinking"....believe it or not is directly opposed to spirituality due to the objective nature and reality of it as well as the purpose behind it. It doesn't pander to individual perceptions or opinions because that would work contrary to change and the cultivating process involved.

The process of spirituality is specifically to break up patterns, paradigms, molds, personal perspectives, opinions, wishes, desires, urges ect ect to align with what is objective and actual and worth pursuing. It has a transforming quality to it and therefore that sort of mentality (wishful) is not useful and actually can act as a hinderance. The power behind spirituality drives the participant away from delusions rather than keeping them in it.

Now, this does not mean that the propositions or claims within the spiritual arena will be devoid of mistakes and or absurdities (or even deluded people) of course, because we are dealing with imperfect creatures and their varying levels of expertise or lack thereof. So what you want to distinguish between are aspects of spirituality that are less emotionally involved, and follow the propositions that logically follow and make sense, simplicity and common sense will go a long ways.

The reason I say "less emotional" is because people tend to mix the two together for example...creating laws or commands to kill or cause harm to others that may have different lifestyles and beliefs and claim it was Gods doing. Discrimination, persecution and segregation have permeated the religious square to the point of idiocy and rarely do they play a true role in spiritual development if at all. And you will notice a true spiritual Master will always abide under the umbrella of unity and love or getting souls to unite in spirituality and experience something real rather than pretentious and self limiting.

In a nutshell making the assertion Theistic beliefs, spirituality or propositions are based on wishful thinking is very much in fact wishful thinking. My point being, change your preconceived idea so that you don't end up with faulty premises and false assumptions. To hold this assumption as true would be like walking through life with a blindfold and would only serve to squash the potential of the holder.

Your consciousness is learning and watching as the bodies in creation are creating and interacting, the Creator learns through your channel of awareness and experience and that is the investment that God has in this whole deal believe it or not. Unlike popular opinion God does NOT dictate and predestine everything that happens in creation rather your individual experience is fresh and dependent upon your own creative abilities and choices even though you were placed in a specific maze in this particular realm.

That is your experience and that is what you are doing here, why you are here and why you are on a long journey through the created worlds. What you want to objectively learn as an individual soul, is the distinction between what the mind (and emotions) produces and what is objectively real beyond that. If you want to refine your experience in spirituality learn to observe from consciousness/soul and not the mind or emotions, it sounds easy until you try, live by it and apply it. Allow your being, which looks through the mind to settle on another state of awareness which is relevant to that which exists beyond those aspects.

When you transcend the obstructions and hurdles of the physical layers through practice you get to transcend those obstructions in reality or in the God worlds, it's really no different in accumulating greater levels of activity and experiences through greater levels of practice or involvement. This is what makes spirituality objective by nature, it opposes what you as an individual may be familiar with or consumed with and directs your attention elsewhere, to what is objective. 

What is your mind and emotions fixed on? what have you solidified in them, and what are you willing to let go of? true spirituality will always challenge your mindsets and ideologies, what you think and what you accept. Your mind is a machine, it will only reinforce patterns and memories, it does not allow you to experience the fullness of what exists if it controls your output. 

All conscious activity exists as energetic frequencies on certain levels like radio stations/channels....Have you ever considered frequency as the denominator or correlation for spiritual communication/experience? perhaps consider conscious awareness as a level or vibration of frequency like a radio wave that has specific wavelengths that if you wish to tune in, you must establish that frequency/channel or signal before tuning in, in other words being a transmitter/receiver of types.

"Receiver" (you) being the mechanistic conductor/device of what is being transmitted, in this sense, in order that we receive spiritual frequencies (knowledge) or experiences one must have the correct channel and device to receive information on that level of frequency. Consider your being as a transmitter or conductor, where whatever channel or frequency you are tuned into or operating from is what you will experience or receive. Being only a receiver for one channel or frequency would dictate what you receive and what you could be aware of.

Same thing with spirituality really, we will receive from whatever "channel" we tune into to, or whatever channel or frequency we are consumed with observing. Just a different way of proposing why there are people who experience this and those who do not and what the differences are. If you want to experience or tune into a frequency you have never tuned into, try adjusting the channel or frequency. This is kinda how spirituality works, it challenges the individual to tune into another "channel" or frequency.

"In radio communication systems, information is carried across space using radio waves. At the sending end, the information to be sent, in the form of a time-varying electrical signal, is applied to a radio transmitter."

Atheists, who is the observer of the mind and body? is the "brain" the observer? who (or what) is observing your experience?

Theists (or spiritualists), who is the observer of the mind, body and emotions? is that "observer" distinct from the brain and the senses of the body (soul/spirit)? is the observer or the soul itself distinct from God (Creator)?

Post your favorite Gospel tunes here!

Wow lol, here's an old Gospel jingle I found recently that I wrote years ago I did for a quick video, someone posted it on FB. I've written many songs and recorded many tracks but this is one of only two videos I have currently, I may have some on Myspace too. Anyways not that much to it, and not that detailed perhaps I'll post some new stuff and more involved guitar playing. I'm more of a guitar slinger and rocker but just for fun I thought I post it for anyone interested in Gospel tunes.