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@n8nrgim
i think you might be confusing me with orogami.
I think you are correct. My full and sincere apologies. I have had a drink.😊
The problem I have with Jesus
Posts
Total:
200
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@IlDiavolo
I once heard from Christians that Jesus' sacrifice was meant to stop the jewish ritual of animal sacrifice that aims to forgive one's sins.
The animal sacrifice was part of the Old Testament of the Bible.
When people made God angry, to make peace with God they offered an animal sacrifice.
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@Best.Korea
Is this some atheist version of inquisition?
Are you also defending this transsexual Pastor?
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@Stephen
i dont know how he would explain being a catholic who is also an atheist. i also dont know why he considers himself catholic given he doesn't believe a lot of what they say is required for catholics to be believed. i think he's a super smart guy, but he just hasn't really delved into the complex arena of christian theology.
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@n8nrgim
i dont know how he would explain being a catholic who is also an atheist. i also dont know why he considers himself catholic given he doesn't believe a lot of what they say is required for catholics to be believed. i think he's a super smart guy, but he just hasn't really delved into the complex arena of christian theology.
Well as I have shown in the link below, the defence by oromagi of the transsexual Pastor is quite extraordinary. He seems to deny just about everything concerning what are alleged to be god's laws.
@Steven
Are you also defending this transsexual Pastor?
No. Transexuality is against Christian teachings. While I do believe that God forgives sins based on person's prayer and good actions, promoting transexuality in church breaks multiple commands in the Bible.
From the more obvious ones,
like "man will not wear woman's clothes", "God created man and woman from the start"
to a more complicated ones,
like "multiply", "put respected people to be priests", "do not spill seed", "Do not separate what God united"..
Basically, the entire Bible points to unity between a man and a woman. If a man is not allowed to wear woman's clothes, that tells us what God thinks about transexuals.
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@Best.Korea
Wasn't Jesus the first transgender man? Didn't God create transgenders by impregnating a 14-year-old virgin with just XX chromosomes?
Now Eve is a fascinating creature for many reasons. The Bible tells us she is the first example of human cloning. But the fun doesn't stop there. If we take the Genesis account in its literal meaning, as conservative Christians demand that we do, she is also the first case of a transgender woman. God reached into Adam, pulled out a bit of rib bone, and grew Eve from that XY DNA into Adam's companion. She was created genetically male, and yet trans-formed into woman.
Then along comes Jesus and the whole pattern is both repeated and reversed. The first couple's refusal to cooperate is turned around by Mary's yes, and the second act of cloning occurs. The Holy Spirit comes upon the second Eve, and the child takes flesh from her and is born. Born of her flesh. Born with XX chromosome pairing. Born genetically female, and yet trans-formed into man.
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@PREZ-HILTON
PREZ-HILTON,
YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE RELATIVE TO CHRISTIANITY: “I didn't know about the no women thing. Perhaps I should try the modem heaven with 72 virgins.”
How dare you bring forth anything relative to the Satanic religion of Islam, where its sweaty male camel riders in their 125 degree deserts will have 72 virgins upon their death, so what!
We Christians males have to look forward upon our death in walking with Jesus in His 1400 square mile heaven, day after day after day after day, where we can ask Him when in the hell is He going to have His “Second Coming” return to earth to resurrect millions of rotting bodies from their graves as shown in the passages below:
“Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28-29)
" For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
Remember this very important aspect relative to Jesus 2nd Coming when you are in heaven, and DO NOT ask Him about it to embarrass Him, where the following Jesus said:
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28)
Damn it, as you can see, Jesus was supposed to return within the life time of the His creation that were standing in front of Him at the time, because they would not “taste death, " whatever that means, before He returned. Its been 2000 years and counting at this time and Jesus has NOT returned yet that made His promise in the passage above as a LIE! Whoops! You get the picture.
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@FLRW
The Bible tells us she is the first example of human cloning.
Well, thank you for pointing out that Bible is scientifically accurate and ahead of human science by at least 4000 years.
She was created genetically male, and yet trans-formed into woman.
The male is someone who has a penis and an ability of sperm production and an ability to make a female pregnant by unity. The first woman had none of that. Unless you claim that rib bone has those things, which would be a denial of reality on your part.
Further, genes dont make something male or female. In order to be a male, you need to be able to make a female pregnant. The genes by themselves have no such ability.
Further, "woman being created from man's rib" is obviously not equal to "man cutting off his penis, pretending to be female despite not having reproduction abilities of a female". In the first case, man remained a man. In the latter case, the man got castrated and now is not male or female anymore.
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@Best.Korea
The animal sacrifice was part of the Old Testament of the Bible.When people made God angry, to make peace with God they offered an animal sacrifice.
This is what I said but in other words. I don't know what your point is.
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@PREZ-HILTON
PREZ-HILTON,
YOUR QUOTE IN YOUR INITIAL POST REGARDING JESUS' SACRIFICE: " It's fucked up that he would be sacrificed for my sins."
In myself being the ONLY TRUE Christian within this Religion Forum, I have always had a hard time in accepting that my bloody and brutal serial killer Jesus was Sacrificed for Christians sins. This is because how can Jesus truly die as a sacrifice for our sins, if He remained alive after His 3 day tomb nap subsequent to His resurrection (John 11:25). Jesus dying for only 3 days in the tomb, and coming back to life, is an embarrassment if one wants to use the notion of "Jesus died for our Sins" because Jesus remained alive and not dead after His "tomb nap of 3 days!" GET IT?
SACRIFICE: an act of offering to a deity something precious especially the killing of a victim on an altar (OR CROSS); something offered in sacrifice
The destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else; something given up or lost
The simple math is since Jesus did not stay dead, as in a true sacrifice shown elsewhere within the Bible, then He rationally didn’t save any Christians from their sins because He had to die forever as a TRUE Sacrifice of which He didn't! Therefore, John 3:16 is a ruse shown herewith: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
As somewhat embarrassing with the verse John 3:16 above, and especially since Jesus is God (2 Peter 1:1), then Jesus as God the Father gave Himself as His only son at the same time in being the Father, where Jesus as the Father is His own Son to begin with in the Trinity Doctrine!
Even if this notion of gibberish shown above doesn't seem to make logical sense, we TRUE Christians accept these embarrassing biblical anomalies within the scriptures anyway, and just move on the best way that we can.
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@FLRW
Do you mean fictionalized?
Why is it so damn difficult for some of you members with reading comprehension? Is it really that difficult to discern what is truly meant when a typo, grammatical error and/or a stupid autocorrect was performed by the device, and then comment/reply accordingly?
Asking what another meant knowing full well what was meant is just stupid and a waste of time all the way around.
Clearly you know what I meant, as the autocorrect error was discernible. So why not comment on what was stated? If you even had a reply to even begin with. 🤦♂️🙄
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@Best.Korea
Are you also defending this transsexual Pastor?No. Transexuality is against Christian teachings. While I do believe that God forgives sins based on person's prayer and good actions, promoting transexuality in church breaks multiple commands in the Bible.
I don't think that this ordained transsexual Pastor has any intention of asking for forgiveness in prayer? He/ she has given god Jesus and his laws the finger.
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@TWS1405_2
@FLRW wrote: Do you mean fictionalized?TWS1405_2 wrote: Why is it so damn difficult for some of you members with reading comprehension? Is it really that difficult to discern what is truly meant when a typo, grammatical error and/or a stupid autocorrect was performed by the device, and then comment/reply accordingly?Asking what another meant knowing full well what was meant is just stupid and a waste of time all the way around.Clearly you know what I meant, as the autocorrect error was discernible. So why not comment on what was stated? If you even had a reply to even begin with. 🤦♂️🙄
FFS! Steady on sunshine! You wrote this:
TWS1405_2 wrote:Jesus is a real person, but his intent and purpose in life was purely Jesus is a real person, but his intent and purpose in life was purely factionalized. . #62
I took your word as written and replied to your use of the word " factionalized" to your comment here>> #72
Fac·tion·al·ize
/ˈfakSH(ə)nəˌlīz/
verb
- 1.(especially of a political party or other organized group) split or divide into factions:"there was a tendency for students to factionalize"
So I can understand FLRW asking for clarity if you can't.
Where as I; I didn't think it was a "typo" BECAUSE IT IS ACTUALLY A WORD. Read the definition you thick fkr and you will understand why I replied with the comment that I did. HERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#72 🤦♂️🙄
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@TWS1405_2
C'mon man, I think you are really smart. Would you accept my friend request?
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@Stephen
Reading comprehension matters. Context matters. Semantics matter. Syntax matters.
Reading my statement, contextually the word was meant to be fictionalized. But it was autocorrected. There is no way, contextually, that I mean factionalized.
Again, reading comprehension matters. Context matters. Semantics matter. Syntax matters.
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@TWS1405_2
Thanks, now I have 50 friends. I only pick the smartest people on this site.
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@TWS1405_2
Reading comprehension matters. Context matters. Semantics matter. Syntax matters.Reading my statement, contextually the word was meant to be fictionalized. But it was autocorrected. There is no way, contextually, that I mean factionalized.Again, reading comprehension matters. Context matters. Semantics matter. Syntax matters.
I agree. And I understand NOW that it was a typo.
But your fkn rant after simply being asked for clarity was way out of order and wasn't "stupid" and neither was it "a waste of time".
Are you calling me "stupid" because I did respond to the word factionalized in your comment? Here>
TWS1405_2 wrote: Jesus is a real person, but his intent and purpose in life was purely factionalized.Stephen wrote:Indeed. His claim is that he had only came to unite and save the lost people of IS-RA-EL, which were made up of the 12 tribes and other Jewish factions and sects. His mission was to rid IS -RA-El of Roman occupation in a uprising. This his why his first 12 disciples came from the rebel country: Galilee. That also happened to be the same location where the fire brand preacher John the Baptist came from.Both were cut down before they got seriously out of hand. If the bible is to be believed.#72
IE Jesus was only interested in one faction. The Jewish faction. he attempted to "factionalise" the Jews into one united group. As you said, "reading comprehension".
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@PREZ-HILTON
Alluding to the #1 post,
You would rather go to Hell than Heaven?
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@Elliott
Lol. Yeah their chocolate is mixed. I think they are on of some where they mix chocolate with other things cause its expensive. I could be wrong. But I agree with their lack in quality.
Thanks have good day
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@FLRW
Now Eve is a fascinating creature for many reasons. The Bible tells us she is the first example of human cloning.
I have always said that if we superimpose todays sciences over the creation of Eve we could be looking at genetic engineering.
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@PREZ-HILTON
You mean like, offer forgivness after a person repents?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Damn it, as you can see, Jesus was supposed to return within the life time of the His creation that were standing in front of Him at the time, because they would not “taste death, " whatever that means, before He returned. Its been 2000 years and counting at this time and Jesus has NOT returned yet that made His promise in the passage above as a LIE! Whoops! You get the picture.
Some say there is a wandering Jew, still alive who witnessed Jesus say that first hand
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@hey-yo
Yes
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@PREZ-HILTON
Would you say that is conditional or a condition for forgiveness?
If yes. How does forgivness and love coexist when there are conditions to forgiveness?
I would think a personay not love if they have a condition for their response to you or for you to do something.
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@hey-yo
Would you say that is conditional or a condition for forgiveness
I am saying I wouldn't feel comfortable accepting forgiveness if I don't do something to offset what I have done.
If yes. How does forgivness and love coexist when there are conditions to forgiveness?
I think that is asking how chicken and beef can coexist
I would think a personay not love if they have a condition for their response to you or for you to do something.
That's actually toxic to have. No expectations of people in relationships and no boundaries
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@PREZ-HILTON
Really. Have you ever wondered why he needed to be raised from the dead? Or why he died in the first place?I think we already covered why he died in this thread. The raising from the dead I guess I can see some reasons for that as well.
If that was the case and you understood it properly, then this thread would be finished. Besides I don't read all of the comments in the thread. I read your initial comment. I respond. And if you respond back I will drop so in kind.
Forgiveness is about reconciliation. Why would anyone not want to be reconciled to God? Why would anyone want to be an enemy of God?I certainly would rather pay for my own crimes than have an innocent person do it, to reconsider with God.
Forgiveness is part of the package of reconciliation. Repentance, forgiveness, recalculation. See Luke 17: 1-10. If there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness. Jesus is God. God knows you are unable to pay for your offences, which is why he did it in your place. That's better than letting you suffer eternal torment in Hell. And besides, you will pay for many of your offences in this life. But you won't pay for most of them. Most of them will remain unpunished and justice won't be achieved.
I don't feel guilty about Jesus dying for my sinsThat's pretty fucked up that you don't care about an innocent man being tortured and killed so brutally especially knowing it was because of your sins.
I never said I don't care that Jesus died for my sins. I said I don't feel guilty about it. He was brutally killed by the Romans in conjunction with the Jewish leaders. The Romans nor the Jews asked me for my permission. Nor did Jesus. It was a plan made in eternity by God.
Every time you look at a bloke or a girl and think about cheating on your spouse, do you go to your spouse and say- "gee I have been having naughty thoughts, you'd better divorce me or give me the flick.". Do you really?I think you need to separate actions that harm nobody like looking at a strange woman's ass or speeding when it doesn't result in injury from crimes where damage was done. Such as the speeding leading to an accident that murders somebody and your gaze at a woman taking you down a path of infidelity.With the speeding and gazing you can fix those things by changing your habits. How do you fix the trust with your wife when you cheat? Is it by saying "welp Jesus died for my sins honey so stop distrusting me" or how do you return the dead child do you say to her parents "Jesus forgives me, there is no need for me to do anything to make you whole, sucks to be you"
Now I know you are playing games. Jesus died for every sin. Not just for the ones that you say harm someone else. Jesus filled out the law in Matthew 5:17 - 48 explaining this detail. Lusting after a woman in your thoughts was in his mind adultery. Calling someone a fool was the same as murder. SO if Jesus died for your sins, then it was EVERY sin that he considers sin. Not just the ones you think are appropriate in your egalitarian brain.
. When my child hits his sister, he has to admit his offence and ask for forgiveness. Once she has forgiven him, he still gets a punishment. Forgiveness DOES NOT mean getting away with stuff.Well it looks like you are forcing your daughter to forgive here. That's not your place. Your place is to punish your son not to force her to forgive him.Besides that, if his sin of hitting her has been cleansed away, it removes the entire point of you punishing him. His sin has been erased by the forgiveness. Why are you making him pay for an erased crime that never happened?
LOL @ you. Who did I force? My children learnt about reconciliation from the get-go. They like each other and want to spend time together. Yet they both know they offend each other from time to time. And reconciliation requires work. Saying sorry on one part and forgiveness on the other. Besides, you don't get to tell me how to raise my children. My place is to bring peace to the home and to ensure that my family are reconciled.
Your second reason is plainly silly. How does forgiveness erase his offence against her? Forgiveness means "not holding it against him so that they can resume their relationship. But it doesn't ignore the fact that he committed the offence. His offence needs to be punished. Just imagine a pedophile attacked your child, she might forgive him. But does that take away the necessity of punishment? No. Offences need to be punished. Forgiveness is part of the process of reconciliation. And if the pedophile never repents, there can be no forgiveness.
I think people who urge people to this end don't understand forgiveness, reconciliation or the gospel. The bible doesn't teach that forgiveness means you don't get punished,Perhaps not, and you are part of the reason for that due to your shitty explanation. Please point me to the verse in the new testament that talks about punishment and forgiveness going hand in hand. Or give me a anything from the bible to support what you are saying. Because right now you are only giving me your thoughts and not even bringing the words of God into this conversation. Sadly brother Thomas has brought more of God's word into this conversation than you.
Thanks for your kind generosity. Personally, I think you are just playing games. If I was the Brother, I would be accusing you of being a fake alias. And if you think the Brother's usage of biblical verses is comforting, well good for you. As for the NT, and punishment and forgiveness going hand in hand, look at the cross in Luke 23:34. Jesus asks God to forgive people for their ignorance. Even here we see ignorance is "not an excuse." It still needs forgiveness. Also, go to the book of Hebrews, it provides lots of assistance. But why stay in the NT, look at the OT? The Jews would every year go to the temple and sacrifice an INNOCENT lamb or OX or dove on their behalf. The animal or bird would be provided for the people's sins. And then forgiveness would be offered. No blood, no forgiveness. Yet even within this Jewish system, offences both criminal and civil were dealt with separately to the sacrifices in the temple. In other words, sin is against God dealt with in the temple and offences against people are dealt with under the penal and civil law. An understanding of the covenant might be helpful to you.
This is true. Yet, there are many wrongs we do, that we will never get the correct consequences for in this life. And if we can get away with them, we willSpeak for yourself . I am seeking to offset some of the evil I have done.
And that is the problem. You minimise sin. You are thinking that it is about how much good you have done or how much bad you have done. The NT says that every person is sinful and deserves death. There is no one who is good. Not one. The Apostle Paul told us clearly in the book of Romans, that our very best is like filthy rags to God. We won't get a free pass because we did some good things. We need to be robed with the righteousness of Christ. And that can only happen at the cross. For believing in Jesus as John 3:16 tells us - is not just about Jesus dying for our sins, but also understanding how at the same time he takes our sins, he gives to us his righteousness.
It's a two-way transaction.
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@PREZ-HILTON
the-problem-i-have-with-jesus?
I see we are no closer as to why god demanded a blood sacrifice, and of his "own son" too.
What is it with this god and sacrifices of blood anyway? That's another problem I have with this story.
And here's another
Why didn't he simply just banish the "sins of the world " away with a god like sweep of his heavenly hand as quickly as he had done in creating evil in the first place?
Why was it only torture, and blood and death that would satisfy this so, so loving god?
Why did god not nip this "sinning" in the bud millennia ago?
Why didn't god just kill the first two sinners instead of waiting millions of years before the "sinning" got so out of hand that he had to send a flood wipe away all millions of sinners and animals?
Why didn't god simply realise that these two first sinners were not up to his specifications and do away with the prototype and go back to his drawing board and re-design and create a pair of that wouldn't go awry, like a human would do?
It simply cannot be that old apologetic chestnut "free will". It is not "free will" if it comes with a threat of death.
he had done in creating evil in the first place
God did not create evil people. New Testament clearly says that evil people are products of the evil one, not God.
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@Stephen
The flood wiped away most of humanity so he did kinda take out a lot of the prototype. As for the blood sacrifices, perhaps it is just about justice and in an agrarian society it's painful to actually sacrifice a portion of your sheep, particularly the healthy strong ones God demanded.
It builds discipline and character.
If you do something like build PlayStations, you should throw 10% of them in a fire somewhere. If you are Jewish anyway.
I will be fair here though and I don't like bringing it up because I enjoy blasting Jews more. They are good at sacrifice. They donate more to charity by percentage of total income than any other group, that still remains correct when adjusted for income