The problem I have with Jesus

Author: PREZ-HILTON
Jesus
Budlight
forgiveness

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#121
Stephen
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@Best.Korea
he had done in creating evil in the first place
God did not create evil people. New Testament clearly says that evil people are products of the evil one, not God.

 I have already corrected you on this a couple of time on various threads.

God said:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
#122
Best.Korea
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@Steven

No. "Create evil" is not the same as "create all evil". Obviously, God created an evil place such as hell to be home for criminals.

Read Matthew 13:24-32
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."

Matthew 13:38
"The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one".
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#123
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@Best.Korea
Your god is yaldaboath
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#124
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Yaldaboath did not create the serpent known as Sophia. Sophia created him
#125
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Further to read about how God didnt create evil people:

John 8 says:
"42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
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#126
PREZ-HILTON
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@Best.Korea
You really need to separate the bible into what comes from yaldaboath and what comes from Sophia. The parts about the devil being a killer is talking about the God of the old testament 
#127
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@Best.Korea


No. "Create evil" is not the same as "create all evil". Obviously, God created an evil place such as hell to be home for criminals.
Read Matthew 13:24-32
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

Stop it!. You are now telling me that the "servants" of god and neither  god himself couldn't keep an eye on the comings and goings in his own house?
And you seem to be telling me that god  cannot choose what is will create evil. When he tells us himself that he is " the creator of ALL THINGS!"

"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made". John 1:3

"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him". Colossians 1:16

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."
So god can't tell the difference between the weeds and wheat? 




#128
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@PREZ-HILTON
The flood wiped away most of humanity so he did kinda take out a lot of the prototype.

Well not entirely. The bloodline  was still intact. Seriously poor pest control, me thinks.


If you do something like build PlayStations, you should throw 10% of them in a fire somewhere.

Why? And which ones?







#129
Best.Korea
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@Steven

Stop it!. You are now telling me that the "servants" of and neither  god himself couldn't keep an eye on the comings and goings in his own house?
Several options:
1) God didnt want to prevent it so that good people on Earth could see evil, but still choose good.
2) God couldnt prevent it

The first option seems most likely, but the other is not exactly to be excluded. After all, there was a battle in the heaven between God and the devil. The very idea that there was a battle shows that devil has powers too. Not equal to God, but certainly not ignorable.

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death"

 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."


And you seem to be telling me that god chooses what he will create evil
What I told you was: "create evil" isnt equal to "create all evil".

God punishes evil people with evil, rewards good people with good. And that is good.


So god can't tell the difference between the weeds and wheat?
The weeds are evil people. The wheat are good people. God's goal is for people to come to him willingly, after they see evil but choose good. If they saw only good and knew only good, it wouldnt be the choice. In the same way, if they knew only evil and did evil, it wouldnt be their choice since they wouldnt even know that good exists.

Your question is also: Why doesnt God simply put good people in heaven immediatelly?

Good people have to earn their payment by choosing good over evil. That is God's will. If good people didnt know evil, then that would disrupt God's plan.

God is not your servant. Rather, you are his. Therefore, you must serve God by choosing good over evil in a place where both good and evil exist and where you are aware of both.
#130
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@Best.Korea
And you seem to be telling me that god chooses what he will create evil
What I told you was: "create evil" isnt equal to "create all evil".

Yes I seen that. But you didn't understand my reply.  You have used the word "all" in your own quote in defence of god not creating ALL things including  not ALL things Evil.

But the BIBLE contradicts you.

"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made". John 1:3

"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him". Colossians 1:16

There are many BIBLE verses proclaiming the same.. You will have to explain away why every single one of them doesn't  mean what they say.

It is pointless continuing this conversation while you are going to persistently contradicted the BIBLE and your god.


God is not your servant. Rather, you are his. 

That bible cretin the Reverend Tradesecret used to tell me that often. I didn't believe him/her and I don't believe you.


#131
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@Steven

"Creating all things" is not equal to "creating all thoughts", since thought isnt a thing. The word "thing" in the Bible doesnt include thoughts into its meaning.

Therefore, evil thoughts are not created by God.
#132
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@Stephen
@PREZ-HILTON

.
Stephen,

MISS TRADESECRETS ADMITS WHY SHE REMAINS BIBLE DUMB: “Besides I don't read all of the comments in the thread.”

Barring the fact that she DOES READ every comment when her name is involved, then if it was true where she doesn’t, then this is why she remains the #1 Bible fool upon this Religion Forum subsequent to me correcting her Bible stupidity all the time. where she could have learned from it and not be made the fool again on said topic or statement of mine!


MISS TRADESECRETS QUOTE IN SHOWING HER BIBLE STUPIDITY AGAIN: “Forgiveness is part of the package of reconciliation. Repentance, forgiveness, recalculation. See Luke 17: 1-10. If there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness.” 

WRONG again, as usual!  In Miss Tradesecret “allegedly” reading the Bible many times, then she passed over the following Jesus inspired passages that explicitly say that there is no repentance needed for forgiveness!

“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14-15)

“In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,” (Ephesians 1:7)

“For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:13)

“To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Acts 10:43)



MISS TRADESECRETS UNFOUNDED QUOTE ABOUT JESUS DYING, WHEN HE REMAINED ALIVE AFTER HIS 3 DAY TOMB NAP: “I never said I don't care that Jesus died for my sins.  I said I don't feel guilty about it.”

As I have explicitly shown in the following link, Jesus did not DIE and remain dead!  Therefore, when Miss Tradesecret says that Jesus died for her sins, it was only for 3 days, whereas He came back to life in His resurrection, and DID NOT truly die for anyones sins, so for Miss Tradesecret to pose that untrue statement, is being a Bible dumbass.  


MISS TRADESECRETS QUOTE THAT SHE HASN’T FOLLOWED GODLY LAWS:  “But does that take away the necessity of punishment? No. Offences need to be punished.”

Ask the #1 Bible stupid fool Miss Tradesecret upon this esteemed Religion Forum, where she doesn’t belong in the first place, is when was the last time she “BEAT” her kids with a hardened “rod” when they got out of line with Christian principles!

JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS SAID: ”Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou BEATEST him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt BEAT HIM with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs.23:13-14)



MISS TRADESECRET QUOTE SLAPPING JESUS IN THE FACE AGAIN:  “Jesus asks God to forgive people for their ignorance.”

H-E-L-L-O-? How can Jesus ask God to forgive people, when in biblical FACT, Jesus is God to being with (1 Peter 1:1).  Therefore, Miss Tradesecret forgot to tell the members of this Religion Forum that He was “talking to Himself in quoted statement above!  Shame on her, tsk, tsk, tsk.


MISS TRADESECRET AGAIN STEPPING IN THE PROVERBIAL POO QUOTE: “For believing in Jesus as John 3:16 tells us - is not just about Jesus dying for our sins, but also understanding how at the same time he takes our sins, he gives to us his righteousness.“

Ho-hum, Jesus being dead for 3 days does NOT truly constitute Him dying for our sins when He remained alive subsequent to His Resurrection, whereas if He remained DEAD forever, then that would be a TRUE Sacrifice as simply explained in my Jesus inspired following link:
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9175/posts/384394


++++++++++++++++   Stephen AND the membership of this Religion Forum, when are you ever going to learn that what Miss Tradesecret says about Jesus and the inspired words within His Bible are to be taken with a MILLION POUNDS OF SALT!!!  Enough of her Bible ignorance and stupidity upon this Forum! ENOUGH!  +++++++++++++++++++
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#133
Sir.Lancelot
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Ok. I know you’re angry, Mr. Thomas, but hear me out! 

How would you like the ability to vote on religious debates? 
#134
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@Sir.Lancelot


Sir Lancelot,

YOUR QUOTE THAT I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT: "How would you like the ability to vote on religious debates? "

Unfortunately there are more outright Bible stupid pseudo-christians upon this Religion Forum than true Christians like myself that follow ALL OF JESUS' INSPIRED WORDS. Therefore, these Bible inept pseudo-christian fools vote together in mass against a debate, even if they were shown logically and biblically that said debate went against their previously  preconceived stupid thoughts.  Therefore, subjectively, it is better to take on these pseudo-christian fools within the Forums where Jesus and I have free reign, praise!

.
#135
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen AND the membership of this Religion Forum, when are you ever going to learn that what Miss Tradesecret says about Jesus and the inspired words within His Bible are to be taken with a MILLION POUNDS OF SALT!!!  

Well Brother D, I didn't ever believe that I would ever say this to you, but................. in my case you are preaching to the converted.

The Reverend Tradesecret (also posting under the user name DavidAZ)  has held the No1 spot for bible duncery  for some years.
#136
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This just proves you need Jesus. 

#137
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@PREZ-HILTON
I get my sins fixed by a blow job. Rebirth you know.
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#138
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@WindowsUser34
I get my sins fixed by a blow job.
You have my attention
#139
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@PREZ-HILTON

@WindowsUser34
I get my sins fixed by a blow job.
You have my attention

🤣



60 days later

#140
eventuality001
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God knows how jacked up the world is and how easily it is to  fall   into  the  system of heading down a road of self destruction.

he allows the downfall to continue because it is the  choice that humans make,   free  will  "    but he offers opportunity for people to connect to his  Spirit  Of  The  Holy,    to  be  reborn  in   him  and  to  obtain  eternal  life
#141
GnosticChristianBishop
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@eventuality001
I agree. 

Nice to see the continuing perfection of our evolution though, right?

Science does indicate that, given our history, this, demonstrably, is the best that things can be.

Given that we are such a rich world, I wonder why we maintain poverty at all.

I do not see the downfall you do. 

Name an evil issue and show your stats. Mine show more good than evil.


Regards
DL
#142
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@Brummy
Have you looked at the morals attached to your view?

Most Christians do not.

On Jesus dying forChristians, from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to thinka god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the firstplace.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t carehow evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, likeit or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you havedone, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- isimmoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility foryour actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, asa Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shalldie. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall thefather bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shallbe upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shallnot be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put todeath because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, norgive to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents wouldteach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against themessianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

Regards
DL


#143
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@PREZ-HILTON
If the  Jesus you refer to is Yahweh, the genocidal one, then Jesus belongs in hell with his deadbeat dad. 

For your files though, given that Christians sing that Adam's sin is a happy fault and necessary to God's plan, they, like Jesus, must sin to gain heaven.

Be happy for your sinning. Nature demands it, ---- and Christianity is just mimicking nature. 

I like the Gnostic Christian Jesus but that other Jesus and his Armageddon are hell bound; not that evil concept exists.

Regards
DL
#144
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@Best.Korea
"Why would someone choose to feel bad? Isnt it better to feel good?"

Why was Jesus mostly feeling bad?

Are we not asked to pick up our own crosses and follow his ways, as scriptures say we must?

The more bad I feel, the more love is returned. We live in duality.

Regards
DL
#145
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@Best.Korea
"Yes. This evil world doesnt deserve forgiveness by their own logical standards."

This is not demonstrable given that science shows how little free will we have.

Even Hitler has to be given some slack, when one considers that he was the end product of all who interacted with him.

Just like you and I are. 

Not much free will there, while at the same time we are all quite free enough to even kill ourselves.

A wise man would retract your foolish and unqualified statement.

Regards
DL
#146
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@Elliott
The messianic concept was an ancient Jewish prophesy of an angel being crucified and resurrected, not a human. 

Christianity turned it into an immoral human sacrifice yarn, instead of the animal scapegoat and forgiveness practice used by Jews in forgiving each other.

A pure and obvious distortion that is mostly ignored.

The logic is that the victim, not some God, has the first right to forgive, not some God watching his own perfect plan play out.

Regards
DL 
#147
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Why was Jesus mostly feeling bad?
Jesus is mostly feeling good, considering that he is enjoying heaven for all eternity.

Jesus did suffer for some time, but it resulted in spreading Christianity and upholding God's law.


Are we not asked to pick up our own crosses and follow his ways, as scriptures say we must?
Yes. However, it does not mean that we should impose suffering on ourselves for no reason. Jesus did not suffer for no reason.


The more bad I feel, the more love is returned. We live in duality.
Yes, true, unless you are harming yourself for no reason. God will not reward you because you impose harm on yourself. First, if such harm is not done to uphold any of the God's Commands. Second, if such harm is merely the result of your belief that you need to harm yourself to enter the Kingdom. God often tells us to be happy. He does not tell us to torture ourselves except for the Kingdom. The Kingdom demands us to suffer to uphold God's Commands. It does not tell us to torture ourselves for no reason. We could feel bad all the time. However, that would not uphold any of the God's Commands, since even Bible tells us to be happy.
#148
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@GnosticChristianBishop
This is not demonstrable given that science shows how little free will we have.
Sorry, society doesnt make equal "no free will" and "deserves forgiveness".

People dont forgive based on someone not having free will. 

However, God does. God is good to all. Even to the evil people. Thats why he is omnibenevolent.
#149
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@Best.Korea
I do not mean to insult, but you seem to have a direct pipeline to God, ---- given how you can read his genocidal mind so easily with all your claims, --- that are mostly belied by the bible.

I want to debate with you. Not your fictional God whose mouth you are stuffing with lies.

If those lies are about Yahweh, you are quoting a satanic God. Enjoy that evil.

Regards
DL

#150
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@GnosticChristianBishop
given how you can read his genocidal mind
Well, arent you fun. Why does everyone think that Christian God is genocidal?