The liberal need to "do something"

Author: thett3

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@thett3
A woman ---liberal?-- on a Russian news program took action to protest Putin  --she risked life and 15 years in prison--  and his aggression in Ukraine while you were rambling on.

Wow, the video of results of the court proceeding  made the news.  Surpised that was even made public.  So she { liberal? } has $200,00. fine and awaits sentencing for her actions.

So, news reporters taking action and  being killed in Ukraine, are they liberals  or conservatives?


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@thett3
Do you want sex education to start that young? 

Animal farming culture children  have lived with animals all of their lives over last 1000's of years.

Dude, you are a prude and need awaken and smell the truth about life, as all children of any age need to.

The degree of teaching  will vary as they get older. It makes no sense to wait til the reach puberty to start teaching them about resultants of sex.

Were on our way to 8 billion on Earth and that is too many for the operation systems we have in place, to maintain the higher standard of resource wasting standards of living.   Humanity will get smart or perish.  It is obvious to me that humanity is primarily about profit and narcissistic ego  --see ME generation---.

That is and loose loose situation and the opposite of all-for-one and one-for-all, spiritually based mentality.
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@ebuc
Animal farming culture children  have lived with animals all of their lives over last 1000's of years.

Dude, you are a prude and need awaken and smell the truth about life, as all children of any age need to.
Yeah except the vast majority don’t live with animals now. For better or for worse knowledge about sex and mating is not going to come from organic observations from a farm or nature, it will be taught to children either by their parents or by the schools. Or they will learn about it through porn, which is even worse. You can’t just avoid the question by saying things were different for peasant farmers in preindustrial times. 

Why do kindergartners need to learn about anal sex? 
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@Double_R
I just don’t think that’s it. The simple fact is that it’s always easier to give something than to take it away. Conservatism is about conservation, so it will always be the position on the losing end of change. 
I missed this part. Sadly this is a pretty accurate description of American conservatism. But the niche for a healthy right wing is to successfully push back on cultural change when necessary while recognizing that change is necessary and getting out of the way in other times. 

As a basic example, we now know incontrovertibly that the situation best for children is to be in the same household as both their biological mother and father. Think about all those ideas that came out of the sexual revolution such as free love, encouraging no fault divorce or not getting married at all,  abolishing the nuclear family, de-stigmatizing premarital or extramarital sex, radical feminism, etc…

 A healthy conservative movement would have recognized that the birth control pill had permanently changed sexual relations and adapted. They would have fought the most dangerous ideas on the list above instead of trying to fight them all and turn the clock back. The horrible impact that the decline in marriage and fatherhood has had on many poorer communities after the social expectation of “childbearing = within marriage” changed can’t be overstated. But conservatives failed to do anything to mitigate this disaster.  Instead, they easily succumbed to moral panic. Think things like abstinence only education or freaking out about a gay Boy Scout in the 1990s that just totally destroyed credibility with a lot of people and expended so much energy over basically nothing.  
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@thett3
it will be taught to children either by their parents or by the schools.
I did not avoid the question. I gave you some rational context about humans over thousands years and addressed your question.

Every nation/state or global community ---and parents---  needs to come to some agreement of what is smart for our children to know about, and at what age.

Children are curious about everything and often learn long before most{?} parents say anything.
 
My father never had any real learning educational talk about anything with me. In some ways, it was almost as tho I didnt have a father so I learned from him only by his behavior.

My mother ---also an alchoholic--- at least made good atetmpt at communicatig stuff like God, Christian Science etc, Jesus and morals, playing card games, and she bouught a $300. set of science books and this study thing that was to help my sister and I to be more educated. That did nothing because my parents were alcoholics and not that educated to begin with.

What were some of the radio songs we all of my age group{ give or take a few years }  heard before puberty...let me tell you bout the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees, everythings all love. When I looked into you big brown eyes.......

I also got learning about moral of story from Rocky and Bullwinkle show at 6PM every Wed and Fri night. Parents are not always going to engage, because of culture, so, again, we have to be smart and to get smart means education of our children.

Pre-school
Kinder{ baby calf in German } garden,
1st
2nd { definitely masturbating cause have clear memories of that, tho Ive read no semen is producd but maybe pre-semial fluids }
.......there was play amongest my friends about kissing a girl etc......
3rd { my mother held  my sister back a year }
4th
5th ( definitely by this time us kids were dropping our pants and sitting each others lap etc, touching etc }
6th {my baby does the hanky-panky  was a popular song }
7th { my mother held me back a year  }
7th again
8th
9th
10th { first job part time }
11th { I quit school to get full time job, a car and lost my virginity but I know others loosing virginity it a few years before me }
12th







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@thett3
Libs always fight for incremental change, and have a vague understanding of how to get there. And will take temporary concessions to help get there. For a very basic example think about how many political careers got ruined in order to pass Obamacare. For something more serious, think about how illegal immigration deeply harms Democrats whenever they are in power but they are nonetheless lenient about it every time. Why? Because they seem to correctly realize that the demographic change is more important for them in the long run than the few marginal seat that will be lost in the next election. I just don't see that from the other side. They had seven years of prep time and didn't have a plan ready to repeal Obamacare. Again Obamacare is a really banal example but I think it demonstrates how hapless the GOP is. The only issue from my lifetime I can think of off the top of my head where it seems that the right wing has essentially won is guns, and in that case there was a powerful interest group that took the lead in that fight, not the party. The NRA fought like the left, and they won

The only example I also recognize is guns, as well. There hasn't been any major gun control passed that I know of since the 1990s. But looking at America for the past century really, it seems that things have incrementally gotten much more liberal, with some strong bursts of change (1960s, for example). Nixon had some limited successes in promoting conservative causes (at least what was possible with the large amount of democrats in Congress). However, even during the supposed "Reagan revolution" in which there was overwhelming conservative power, not a ton of liberal things get meaningfully rolled back. Bush got elected with massive support on a campaign that included opposing gay marriage, yet the second he reached office, he killed any momentum he had by threatening social security with privatization.

That really seems to be the crux of the issue there. While both parties seem to be guilty of not fulfilling campaign promises, at least democrats satisfy their voters with some minor lasting change. Most republicans will run amazing campaigns criticizing crime, illegal immigration, tech censorship, etc., but the second they get in office, they immediately expend all of their energy fighting tooth and nail for tax cuts for rich people and corporations or cutting welfare.

Yea I still don't think liberalism as a whole as really grappled with the reality that much of your identity is just chosen for you, and that it's actually healthy for that to happen. Teenagers have always tried to identify themselves in some way as they grapple with their identities as they come into man/womanhood but man do I miss the classic teenage rebellion instead of thinking too much about gender. I wonder if some of what these kids are saying comes from something real, though. I have a theory that processed foods and endocrine disrupters have basically poisoned American kids. IDK how anyone can see pictures or videos of high school students from the 80s or before and not think they look unbelievably stronger and healthier, more present. Maybe a lot of these kids don't feel like men or women, feel so far off of the paragons of man and womanhood that they don't even wanna try. The smartphone didn't help either imo.
I think the main issue is that, either before their mind is even halfway formed or during the most confusing part of their lives, you have these sick people filling the heads of these kids with all of this crap about gender. The funny thing is that these same people who demand for children to have the right to taking life-altering hormones and mutilate their genitals are also the ones calling for censorship of "misinformation" because Boomers can't be trusted to figure out the truth on their own. Truly insane people.

I think that your theory on the impacts of processed foods is likely more of an explanation for guys who are turning out a lot more soyish. Perhaps that mixed with these snakes confusing kids and a deterioration of a lot of institutions that helped promote manhood and womanhood (honestly, how many fraternal male groups are there anymore?), all lead to this gender confusion.

The highlighted bit is particularly dangerous imo. I think convincing people that they are victims or oppressed pretty much just makes them assholes. I know I have dabbled in the white victimhood thing a bit (look at these mean things people I dont know are saying online :(((((((( ) and it's just not good. So immature and bad for you, can't imagine focusing my entire identity around that sort of thing.
Yeah, while I can at least understand why people would hypothetically support affirmative action, I think that is one of the most important battles for even considering having a functional multiracial society. Its existence inherently creates blame towards those that don't benefit from it- ie. mainly Whites (although Asians also don't benefit much and you'll notice that they are increasingly targeted by media and violent attacks). And when you have massive immigration from people who will fit into said benefiting groups, they will increasingly adopt the mindset of being oppressed because it pays incredibly well! Finally, you'll notice that the people that benefit the most from the system (college-educated blacks, for example) are those that seem to hate America and White people the most.
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@thett3
For the past year or so, I have been investigating the causes of political ideology, and why it is that the left seems to have more will to power than the right. I think we can chalk yet another point to the idea that most ideological differences come from personality differences that lead to differences in worldview. One such difference is how groups react to problems in the world.
I think what we currently call "the right" and "the left" correlate to a divide that is grounded in on biological/psychosocial predisposition --- which are prior to any political ideology, or that ideology's embodiment at any particular point in time.  The words we use to describe each such embodiment vary as do the meanings associated with those words (for example, "conservative" includes "populist" now whereas it did not before 2016).  But the divide hasn't changed. 

The prior divide is between order and chaos, which manifest at any number of levels.  For example, the divide splits between authority and its rejection; the known and the unexplored; hierarchy and its subversion; preservation of the known and its destruction; tradition and progress, and the list goes on.  According to Jordan Peterson, any person's particular predisposition along those dichotomies is predicted best by the degree of their trait conscientiousness.   

This is more a commentary on human nature than it is an analysis of whatever we, now, or others, historically, have regarded as "the right" and "the left," but I think this is the right level of analysis to begin understanding that dichotomy from.  The split is a historical constant, and is not unique to our specific moment in time even if it is more precisely visible with media in its current form.   Also, when characterized as such, it's easier to view history from a Hegelian perspective (or from the perspectives of Fichte and Schelling).

Right wingers often mock the left for so easily going over to what ever narrative is popular in "the current year."
Yes, they do.  And for good reason.  Even if right wingers can't precisely articulate why they object to "progress for its own sake," that mockery seems to be grounded in a psychological, if not subconsciously existential, aversion to non-creative destruction.  The left's proper role is advocacy on behalf of those dispossessed by extant hierarchies.  There will always be a pareto-type distribution of goods and resources without regard to the political or economic structure (notably, this phenomena predates capitalism's existence).  Consequently, there will always be cohorts on whose behalf the left should advocate --- even if they, themselves, are not so disaffected. 

A person's predisposition towards empathy also probably plays a role.  But that can be toxic or become toxic fast.  Misplaced or misguided empathy seems to be a key factor animating most of the current, postmodern left's so called "advocacy."  Particularly among millenials and gen-z, because they simultaneously (a) know nothing other than the here and now and (b) incurred no personal costs to creating the universe of good in the status quo, they take it for granted.  So, when they experience something they don't like, they understand it as "oppression" and blame the system from which they came.  Of course, their current struggle can't be the result of their own life choices.  So, by taking on the purported "struggles" of others, they give their lives meaning and orient their ire against the status quo itself. 

This is important, because of how existentially meaningless life in modernity actually is.  If you're a chaotic disaster of a person, you don't have your life in order and you can't even make your bed in the morning, you also probably don't have a family, you likely never will, most likely won't even be able to maintain a committed relationship with another person, much less initiate one, which if you even did you'd probably screw it up and blame it on the other person.  Without God, organized religion, community institutions or other meaningful social connections, what even is there?  A job, that's probably unenjoyable and unfulfilling, pays a slave wage at best and entails no realistic opportunity for advancement, much less retirement?   Why wouldn't you want to distract yourself with some nonsensical pursuit of "social justice" when that's the monster you're trying to make sure stays locked in the closet?  

People need meaning to their lives.  They need a purpose.  Social justice and progress supply it.  That's why rational conversations with people on the progressive left can't even be had; their advocacy for those objectives is too intertwined with their own sense of themselves for them to be able to consider the possibility that they might be wrong.  

And while much of the advocacy is indeed worthy of criticism (like changing your Facebook profile picture to support whatever is on TV, as if that makes a difference) they mock this at their own peril. Because ultimately this kind of behavior comes from an ever present feeling among many liberals that they must DO SOMETHING!
I agree.   But I'd add three ideas to that:

  • First, it is irrational to think that by simply doing "something," the situation will improve.  Doing nothing is often the better course of action.  Careful consideration must be undertaken before acting, and the bigger the action proposed the more carefully it needs to be considered.  
  • Second, the world is full of problems.  The fact that problems are identified does not mean that the system needs to be changed from the top down, or even if it does that progressives are the people to do it.  History is replete with examples of catastrophe, brought on unnecessarily by the stupidity of precipitous, myopic action --- however well intended.  The gender discussions we currently have as a society will fall into this category, in about twenty years.  But it will take a generation to realize how stupid all of that is before it's corrected. 
  •  Third, the right's challenge should be to figure out a way to get the postmodern progressives to have a stake in the system.  Expanding opportunities for home ownership would probably be a good place to start.  That, and promoting marriage between two people.  
We can see quite clearly, in the United States at least, how much more impact leftists have on almost all important institutions. They have even captured the upper echelons of the military at this point.
Totally agree.  That blithering idiot Mark Milley, as exhibit A.  

Whereas the conservative when confronted with the negatively of the world turns inward, or attempts to address things locally. While this is personally beneficial--conservatives have far lower incident of mental illness than liberals do, have higher self reported levels of happiness, have more children, etc--this is a severe detriment in the marketplace of ideas.
The social goods that conservatives accrue, I think, tends to be the result of their trait conscientiousness.  That's not to say all conservatives have those goods, but any average right-winger is more likely to probably have them than any average left-winger because the left-winger is a lot less likely to exhibit the same trait in how they live their life.  

This brings me back to a point I made above, which is that right-wingers need to give left-wingers a chance to earn a stake in the status quo.  That proposition reminds me of Edmund Burke's recommendation that conservatives "change, to conserve."  For example, while Burke didn't advocate for gay marriage, David Cameron did based on the fact that if you deny marriage to an entire category of people for whatever reason, at least a cohort of those people are going to question not only the institution of marriage but the very proposition of a family based around it.  The greater good is served by preserving the nature of marriage, but changing the form of its composition.  In so doing, the institution survives; remaining as the foundational unit of society.  

That conservatives have as much success as they do in the United States owes mostly to the truly insane ideas coming from the top 5% most progressive members of the left successfully used as rallying points such as cutting off mentally ill fifteen year olds breasts, forcing two year olds to wear masks for eight hours a day, or decrying all white people as evil. Conservatives own ideas about how the culture ought to be are scattered and were mostly defeated decades ago, and its difficult to imagine a less popular economic platform than cutting entitlements in such a fantastically wealthy (and unequal) country. 
Fascism is the extension of the postmodern impulse driving each of those phenomena.  We're well on our way there.  We said "never again," after WWII but now find ourselves once more in the wake of a fourth turning (see generally, Strauss-Howe generational theory).  
















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@coal
Very nice break down of Jordanisms.
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Solid post

I think what we currently call "the right" and "the left" correlate to a divide that is grounded in on biological/psychosocial predisposition --- which are prior to any political ideology, or that ideology's embodiment at any particular point in time.  The words we use to describe each such embodiment vary as do the meanings associated with those words (for example, "conservative" includes "populist" now whereas it did not before 2016).  But the divide hasn't changed. 
1000%. I've come to this conclusion as well--its quite obvious that for most people their general affiliation comes from a pre-rational place and their brain comes up with arguments to rationalize their position. At best we can hope to be dispassionate about some policy issues but in terms of our "team" it's pretty tough. Especially since 90% of people don't think about politics all that much. It's why judging people or hating people based on their politics rubs me the wrong way so much

  Particularly among millenials and gen-z, because they simultaneously (a) know nothing other than the here and now and (b) incurred no personal costs to creating the universe of good in the status quo, they take it for granted.  So, when they experience something they don't like, they understand it as "oppression" and blame the system from which they came.  Of course, their current struggle can't be the result of their own life choices.  So, by taking on the purported "struggles" of others, they give their lives meaning and orient their ire against the status quo itself. 

This is important, because of how existentially meaningless life in modernity actually is.  If you're a chaotic disaster of a person, you don't have your life in order and you can't even make your bed in the morning, you also probably don't have a family, you likely never will, most likely won't even be able to maintain a committed relationship with another person, much less initiate one, which if you even did you'd probably screw it up and blame it on the other person.  Without God, organized religion, community institutions or other meaningful social connections, what even is there?  A job, that's probably unenjoyable and unfulfilling, pays a slave wage at best and entails no realistic opportunity for advancement, much less retirement?   Why wouldn't you want to distract yourself with some nonsensical pursuit of "social justice" when that's the monster you're trying to make sure stays locked in the closet?  

People need meaning to their lives.  They need a purpose.  Social justice and progress supply it.  That's why rational conversations with people on the progressive left can't even be had; their advocacy for those objectives is too intertwined with their own sense of themselves for them to be able to consider the possibility that they might be wrong.  

On the highlighted bit you see this in the far right types as well, it's easy to sit there and complain about modernity because some people say mean things online or you have student debt or whatever without thinking about stuff like how a minimum wage worker can afford several pounds of rice and beans from only an hours worth of labor, how war has become extremely rare, all this incredible medicine we have, etc. 

As for your other bit, yeah, I totally agree. In 2020 in particular it was beyond obvious that many of these people were using Black Lives Matter and other forms of activism to fill the God and community shaped holes in their hearts. The mental relationship many white liberals seem to have with black people is.....extremely toxic. I don't like to really go into the crime rates stuff because it makes me feel uncomfortable but I have a few times and the liberal response to the average black person being ~40x more likely to attack a white person than vice versa is always "whitey made 'em do it!" Just totally denying agency or the ability to make moral decisions to black people. I hate the "dems r the real racists" stuff but as a Christian who believes that everyone has a soul and moral agency it does genuinely disgust me, and makes it clear that no matter what they might say they don't hold blacks and whites to the same standards. Guilt for crimes white people commit not only transfer across generations but across families, whereas contemporary crime from a black person is excused

I don't know what's going to happen because as you note for many this set of beliefs is intertwined in their identities, but many of the beliefs are just plain wrong.

  • First, it is irrational to think that by simply doing "something," the situation will improve.  Doing nothing is often the better course of action.  Careful consideration must be undertaken before acting, and the bigger the action proposed the more carefully it needs to be considered.  
  • Second, the world is full of problems.  The fact that problems are identified does not mean that the system needs to be changed from the top down, or even if it does that progressives are the people to do it.  History is replete with examples of catastrophe, brought on unnecessarily by the stupidity of precipitous, myopic action --- however well intended.  The gender discussions we currently have as a society will fall into this category, in about twenty years.  But it will take a generation to realize how stupid all of that is before it's corrected. 
  •  Third, the right's challenge should be to figure out a way to get the postmodern progressives to have a stake in the system.  Expanding opportunities for home ownership would probably be a good place to start.  That, and promoting marriage between two people.  

Yep, theres a long history of cures worse than the disease. As you note, the cure of blocking puberty and permanently messing up the reproductive and endocrine systems of thousands of children (and surgically operating on the sex organs of some) is vastly worse than the disease of some people feeling uncomfortable about their bodies going through puberty

The highlighted bit is unbelievably true. When you have a stake in the system your mindset totally changes. Suddenly burning it all down isn't revenge against those who wronged you, it represents burning down things you've worked years for. 

This brings me back to a point I made above, which is that right-wingers need to give left-wingers a chance to earn a stake in the status quo.  That proposition reminds me of Edmund Burke's recommendation that conservatives "change, to conserve."  For example, while Burke didn't advocate for gay marriage, David Cameron did based on the fact that if you deny marriage to an entire category of people for whatever reason, at least a cohort of those people are going to question not only the institution of marriage but the very proposition of a family based around it.  The greater good is served by preserving the nature of marriage, but changing the form of its composition.  In so doing, the institution survives; remaining as the foundational unit of society.  
I think we are in agreement here. Like I said in my last post to Double_R, conservatives fought every aspect of the sexual revolution. Having moral panics about increased pre-marital sex, homosexuality, etc...whereas if they wisely realized that change is inevitable and you need to fight the changes that are really really bad they probably could have preserved the social norms of "childbirth = within marriage" and "conceive a child out of marriage = shotgun marriage" and "abandoning your children = worthless deadbeat who should be socially shamed at all opportunities"...it would have made a difference for so many kids and so many families.
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as a Christian who believes that everyone has a soul and moral agency it does genuinely disgust me, and makes it clear that no matter what they might say they don't hold blacks and whites to the same standards. Guilt for crimes white people commit not only transfer across generations but across families, whereas contemporary crime from a black person is excused

Are you referring the Smollett case?
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@thett3
I think that demonstrates an inherent flaw with the "marketplace of ideas" and liberal democracy. Why have such a concept when a calm, balanced, and logical approach to preserving society will sound less appealing to the masses than some delusions of grandeur?

Should society's decisions really be based on the masses of people that can't pinpoint a country we're at war with on a map?
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@triangle.128k
I think that demonstrates an inherent flaw with the "marketplace of ideas" and liberal democracy.
would you rather we sheepishly submit to secret backroom deals struck between monied elites ?
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@triangle.128k
Why have such a concept when a calm, balanced, and logical approach to preserving society will sound less appealing to the masses than some delusions of grandeur?
Perfectly said. Liberty always devolves into "liberty to do whatever I want i.e drugs, porn, etc"
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@thett3
Whereas the conservative when confronted with the negatively of the world turns inward, or attempts to address things locally.
just like george bush did when they jumped into iraq
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@Dr.Franklin
Perfectly said. Liberty always devolves into "liberty to do whatever I want i.e drugs, porn, etc"
not "always"
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@3RU7AL
when does it not
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@thett3
I agree with basically all of what you said in #69

In 2020 in particular it was beyond obvious that many of these people were using Black Lives Matter and other forms of activism to fill the God and community shaped holes in their hearts. The mental relationship many white liberals seem to have with black people is.....extremely toxic. 
Isn't it interesting how white liberals treat the quality of being black as some kind of unique, race-based original sin that only the Democratic party can provide salvation for?  The messiah complex they all seem to have is really bizarre.  It's tempting to write that off as just performative, but I think it's more than that for them.  

 . . . blocking puberty and permanently messing up the reproductive and endocrine systems of thousands of children (and surgically operating on the sex organs of some) is vastly worse than the disease of some people feeling uncomfortable about their bodies going through puberty.
True.  But there's also more going on.  A cohort of self-interested, but seemingly "enlightened" cohort of "experts," who primarily include psychiatrists, have invented this concept of "gender affirming" medical care.  What they do is find emotionally vulnerable children and adolescents upon whom the expert's ideologically driven preconceptions can be projected. 

It's a predictable pattern.  Gay boys are especially vulnerable targets for this witchcraft, which is why it's personal for me.  Don't like your life as a 7-14 year old?  Well, you must have been born in the wrong body!  As a therapeutic measure, let's give you the same drugs that the state of Texas uses to chemically castrate violent sex offenders, pump you full of opposite-sex hormones and praise you for overcoming your "struggle" with "gender dysphoria." 

What people fail to realize is the fact that something is held out as "therapeutic" does not make it so.  The approach with hormones and "reassignment surgery" is identical to that taken by psychiatrists who forced lobotomies and involuntary sterilization on the feeble minded, and castration on non-heterosexuals.  




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@coal
Isn't it interesting how white liberals treat the quality of being black as some kind of unique, race-based original sin that only the Democratic party can provide salvation for?  The messiah complex they all seem to have is really bizarre.  It's tempting to write that off as just performative, but I think it's more than that for them. 
I'm always reminded of this video whenever I encounter this mindset.

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A great example of this is one of my parents neighbors. For the past few years they’ve had a gay pride flag up, which just recently they’ve replaced with a Ukrainian flag (that I’m pretty sure was upside down now that I think about it.) It’s their property so they can fly whatever they want but I can’t help but roll my eyes at the pride flag, and when I saw they had changed it to a Ukrainian flag as I drove by I burst out laughing. It’s just so predictable. 

We don’t think enough about how human instincts evolved in a VERY different social environment. I doubt the hunter gatherer ever heard of a conflict that they didn’t have a personal stake in somehow. Signaling support for one side or the other actually bore risks and costs, and siding with the side that ultimately won would be a benefit. I can just imagine that person hanging up the gay pride flag and anxiously awaiting a response that never comes, and swapping it out with a Ukrainian flag and believing that it makes a difference either way. In the ancestral environment publicly signaling support for something probably would 
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Perfectly said. Liberty always devolves into "liberty to do whatever I want i.e drugs, porn, etc"
not "always"
when does it not
there are quite a few free-thinking-skeptics who have not become homeless junkies
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had changed it to a Ukrainian flag as I drove by I burst out laughing. It’s just so predictable. 
it makes me wonder why nobody was flying the syrian flag when those refugees were fleeing from RUSSIAN bombs
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@coal
Isn't it interesting how white liberals treat the quality of being black as some kind of unique, race-based original sin that only the Democratic party can provide salvation for?  The messiah complex they all seem to have is really bizarre.  It's tempting to write that off as just performative, but I think it's more than that for them.  
It's definitely more than that. I have this weird pet theory--in 2011 this book came out called "Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth?" which argued that because secular liberalism was a fertility shredder and the third world has high birth rates the future will be dominated by religious people. I saw a very compelling refutation of it that basically argued (conclusively imo) that the religious have had a higher fertility rate for a really long time, since the advent of the industrial revolution or even early. But society still got more secular almost everywhere. Case closed. Except...the behavior of most "secular" people doesn't really strike me as being very secular AT ALL. Instead it seems like for many politics is religion by other means. Maybe those religiosity genes really did come to dominate. The US being founded by religious fanatics probably doesn't help things either. People should just go to church instead of centering themselves around politics

It's a predictable pattern.  Gay boys are especially vulnerable targets for this witchcraft, which is why it's personal for me.  Don't like your life as a 7-14 year old?  Well, you must have been born in the wrong body!  As a therapeutic measure, let's give you the same drugs that the state of Texas uses to chemically castrate violent sex offenders, pump you full of opposite-sex hormones and praise you for overcoming your "struggle" with "gender dysphoria." 

What people fail to realize is the fact that something is held out as "therapeutic" does not make it so.  The approach with hormones and "reassignment surgery" is identical to that taken by psychiatrists who forced lobotomies and involuntary sterilization on the feeble minded, and castration on non-heterosexuals.  
It's the kind of thing that even ten years ago would have been in some dystopian body horror fiction. Like I have mentioned earlier, it gives me hope that there will be a backlash because reasonable minds can't disagree on this issue, there's just a right or wrong. If conservatives can't win on this they are unbelievably worthless. Whichever party can get rid of their crazies and run on a platform of center left economics and opposition to post-2010 social liberalism will have the country for a few decades at least. It's a trillion dollar bill lying in the street

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it makes me wonder why nobody was flying the syrian flag when those refugees were fleeing from RUSSIAN bombs
A war in Europe obviously feels closer to home for Americans most of whom who have ancestry in Europe, share some cultural similarities, greater economic integration, more history etc than they do with Syria. Many people would be embarrassed to admit that even though it clearly has an impact on their behavior. I'm not, it makes perfect sense. I imagine your average Jordanian or Iraqi knows and cares more about the Syrian civil war than they do the Russo-Ukrainian war
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People should just go to church instead of centering themselves around politics
Does there exist a church that actually seeks truth and eschews irrational non-sense?

Politics and religion intimately intertwined and Ghandi attempted to make this clear.

What is most spiritual? Spirit is energy and biologic energy pattern are  special/unique and seemingly rare occurrence here on Earth in space.

Does spiritual mean the responsible { rational } propagation of biologics on Earth, without destruction of [ humanity } or the ecological { biologic } environment that sustains those who create words like spirit, politics, church and statements like, over population for systems currently in place on Earth?

The leader/priest of the Orange church became president of USA a few years back.   60 million seemingly were are part of that church, when that leader/priest attempted to over throw the rule of USA laws. 

Oh yeah we mustn't forget the Orange priest/leader use of the the Bible to further their populism, o both God fearing and the secular variety of ' give me freedom of give me death '... sterotype.
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true, but it leads many people down dangerous paths just because you have liberty to do so
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Totally agree.
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true, but it leads many people down dangerous paths just because you have liberty to do so
FREEDOM = EVIL
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unrestricted freedom
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We don’t think enough about how human instincts evolved in a VERY different social environment. I doubt the hunter gatherer ever heard of a conflict that they didn’t have a personal stake in somehow. Signaling support for one side or the other actually bore risks and costs, and siding with the side that ultimately won would be a benefit.
That reminds me:



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unrestricted freedom
how much restriction do you personally believe is optimal ?