The liberal need to "do something"

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thett3
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For the past year or so, I have been investigating the causes of political ideology, and why it is that the left seems to have more will to power than the right. I think we can chalk yet another point to the idea that most ideological differences come from personality differences that lead to differences in worldview. One such difference is how groups react to problems in the world.

Right wingers often mock the left for so easily going over to what ever narrative is popular in "the current year." And while much of the advocacy is indeed worthy of criticism (like changing your Facebook profile picture to support whatever is on TV, as if that makes a difference) they mock this at their own peril. Because ultimately this kind of behavior comes from an ever present feeling among many liberals that they must DO SOMETHING! And while this sometimes results in things that make you roll your eyes, it can also result in politically effective activities like pressuring major institutions when they step out of line, or ruining a persons life when they express an idea ~40% of the population believes in. We can see quite clearly, in the United States at least, how much more impact leftists have on almost all important institutions. They have even captured the upper echelons of the military at this point.

Whereas the conservative when confronted with the negatively of the world turns inward, or attempts to address things locally. While this is personally beneficial--conservatives have far lower incident of mental illness than liberals do, have higher self reported levels of happiness, have more children, etc--this is a severe detriment in the marketplace of ideas. It's all well and good to be a positive role model and live a good life but when the overwhelming majority of the people who feel a constantly oppressive need to DO SOMETHING (and therefore have far more influence over major institutions than those who don't really care) disagree with you...good luck preserving your values. That conservatives have as much success as they do in the United States owes mostly to the truly insane ideas coming from the top 5% most progressive members of the left successfully used as rallying points such as cutting off mentally ill fifteen year olds breasts, forcing two year olds to wear masks for eight hours a day, or decrying all white people as evil. Conservatives own ideas about how the culture ought to be are scattered and were mostly defeated decades ago, and its difficult to imagine a less popular economic platform than cutting entitlements in such a fantastically wealthy (and unequal) country. 


badger
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Do you think I'm left or right, thett? 
Dr.Franklin
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good post
RationalMadman
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This is one of the most complimentary take of Liberals/Progressives that a Conservative could give. I agree with a lot of it.
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@thett3
Interesting observations, thett. I have noticed similar trends. The terms “activist/activism” are certainly more synonymous with the left. Put simply:

Liberals: “Don’t just sit there; do SOMETHING!”
Conservatives: “Don’t just DO something; make sure it’s BETTER than doing nothing or nothing new.”

Here’s a funny twist on that generalization:  Sweden, normally viewed as the liberal’s dream realized on earth, decided not to institute lockdowns during COVID. Well, the US press— one of the institutions overrun by the left— did a complete 180 on Sweden and published only negative articles on its failure to do SOMETHING. I’ve never seen a welfare state so demonized in media. It was as if the press felt betrayed.
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@cristo71
It was as if the press felt betrayed.

Please help me understand... why would a feeling of betrayal be required for someone to say they disagree with something that they disagree with?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Your question seems to misunderstand the purpose of news reporting.

It is not the purpose of news reporters to agree or disagree with the policies they report on. The purpose of news reporting is to state in non-emotive language what is happening without passion or prejudice. This allows the reader to be informed and use that info to form his own conclusions. If this were done with Sweden, journalists would have had more of a tone of “time will tell if Sweden’s COVID strategy is ultimately the right one or not.”

This is not what occurred. Instead, articles on Sweden were negatively slanted. “No lockdowns = mounting deathcount.” The reporting on Sweden was one dimensional and geared toward one conclusion: not locking down = bad. If there was an upside to Sweden’s strategy, it was not presented in media as frequently as the negative.
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@badger
Do you think I'm left or right, thett?
I assume your politics lean left but not absurdly so. But you’re too fundamentally rooted (growing up on a farm etc) to be fully assimilated into the neoliberal project which wants people to be cogs in a machine.
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@thett3
..." It's all well and good to be a positive role model and live a good life..."
.." A Good American " is not liberal or conservative.   The lame/clueless { right or left } need to watch this movie on HULU and/or Imbd.


This appears to be a fascination true conspiracy and not the false narratives, that conservative right is primarily known for and  like to encourge.

The action of conservative right is to lie,  mislead, misdirect etc, all that is  not benificial, to humanities long term survival.

Oh yeah, the actions the conservatives profit mongers took against the Good American NSA employess is on par with what other actions they have taken over the years? 
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Thanks, and no offense intended about the profile pic thing lol
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@cristo71
Liberals: “Don’t just sit there; do SOMETHING!”
Conservatives: “Don’t just DO something; make sure it’s BETTER than doing nothing or nothing new.”

Here’s a funny twist on that generalization:  Sweden, normally viewed as the liberal’s dream realized on earth, decided not to institute lockdowns during COVID. Well, the US press— one of the institutions overrun by the left— did a complete 180 on Sweden and published only negative articles on its failure to do SOMETHING. I’ve never seen a welfare state so demonized in media. It was as if the press felt betrayed.
The Nordic countries are interesting. They seem to be governed pretty effectively, including having the most sane and rational Covid policies almost anywhere and (other than Sweden) having immigration and assimilation policies that US leftists absolutely would not tolerate. I think early 2000s libs we’re on to something when they were admiring these countries…sadly they have long since moved past that point 

Liberals just seem to have the will to power in general. I don’t know how to go about changing that but we really need to if we want them to stop winning 
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@ebuc
Do you honestly feel that the post you made in this thread was interesting, insightful, or productive? 
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@thett3
I do think your concept is flawed in the sense that very conservative parents are also the strictest, as are very conservative governments. There are definitely conservatives who are do-something type people.

However, I do agree that progressives are very fiery do-something people by nature.
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@thett3
Liberals just seem to have the will to power in general. I don’t know how to go about changing that but we really need to if we want them to stop winning 
I take it you’re not talking 2022/2024 elections but thinking long term?

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@thett3
Do you honestly feel that the post you made in this thread was interesting, insightful, or productive? 

Yes, tho apparrently not to you.  Win a few loose a few.  Your not much of loss ---too me--  when it comes to truth about conservatives.

When you want to step outside of conservative bubble of comfort, watch the movie. 
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@cristo71
I take it you’re not talking 2022/2024 elections but thinking long term?
Yeh I mean long term. I think dems over played their hand and republicans will dominate the 2020s but will be in deep trouble when the boomers start dying
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@ebuc

Yes, tho apparrently not to you.  Win a few loose a few.  Your not much of loss ---too me--  when it comes to truth about conservatives.

When you want to step outside of conservative bubble of comfort, watch the movie.  
What you said didn’t engage the OP at all lol. But that’s okay. If I have time I’ll watch it at some point. If I recall correctly you’re the one who was calling people “Trumpanzees” which admittedly is pretty funny 
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@thett3
I try not to let people like EBUC color my perspective of what people on the left really want. Most of them don't subscribe to ideological genocide Cambodia style.
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@thett3
Yeah, that’s a valid concern. Lefties inhabit some very influential institutions, which gives them a distinct advantage in the national zeitgeist:

- Academia - this has been brewing for decades, perhaps even a century. Just about everything that comes out of AOC’s mouth strikes me as very “college student-y”…

- Print and television media/social media

- Multinational corporations - this one is a bit of a turnaround, as this was seen as the province of the right up through W Bush’s presidency (this one also has some overlap with the above institution). Also a bit of a head scratcher, as corporations are capitalist, and the left is becoming more vocally anti-capitalist. Perhaps there are books out there exploring this very phenomenon…

Also, the military establishment is becoming increasingly PC/woke. Listen to just about any right leaning service person.
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@thett3
..." you’re the one who was calling people “Trumpanzees” which admittedly is pretty funny "..

Hope you do get a chance to watch it. I dont recall that term Trumpanzee by me, but would not surprise me Ive stated it. Thanks for compliment.

I guess this is one time and can toot my Trumpet and not feel I'm being a Trumpanzee. :--)
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@thett3
A few people think that they are something, and adopt a label.

And some people think that other people are something, and apply labels.

But the reality is that most people within a given society are moderately the same.

And most of the time, this balance works as well as can be expected.
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@zedvictor4
And most of the time, this balance works as well as can be expected.
Good point Zed. Humanity has not yet commited Mutually Assured Destruction { M.A.D } aka NUTS.  That still hangs in the balance.

Was it the liberals who led the way in reducing the number thermonuclear weapons on Earth in the 1970 - 80's?

100 seconds to midnight via Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.  Is humanity truly balanced? Maybe Putins actions is an attempt to balance humanity for the overall betterment. India and Pakistan are good buddies for now, eh?




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@thett3
Conservatives own ideas about how the culture ought to be are scattered and were mostly defeated decades ago
Just to expand on this, I think another issue with the right-wing in this country as opposed to the left-wing is that we often don't seem to have something that we aspire to. If you ask a liberal what they want, they will often have a pretty specific answer for you. It will often be some egalitarian utopia that won't be ever possible to achieve. So, they will forever have this end goal to aspire to, not unlike religion.

However, if you ask most conservatives what they want, you'll not get some great vision. You'll generally get a response like wanting the 1950s back or back in the prime of [insert name of some world empire]- something that has come and gone. We are willing to settle for a civilization too easily. The most prevalent statement for what conservatives want is related to be against something rather than for something. For example, we don't like CRT, we don't want sex changes for mentally ill children, we don't like how the welfare state is currently set up- we just look at things and want them to be different than they are. We are only really united by the feeling that things aren't as they should be.

I think that for both convincing outsiders of your cause and for keeping yourself motivated, you to some degree need that kind of utopian vision.

We need that for us, but we also need to stay in-touch with reality. We are too in-touch with realism, which tells us we can't accomplish a ton. That's fairly demoralizing and leads to less action. Meanwhile, you'll often see the things that these far-left activists say and you just wonder if you're even living in the same reality. Surely, there has to be some balance between the two? Maybe that's what we're seeing with conservatives finally trying to run school boards across the country, but again that's in RESPONSE to CRT, not with a vision on how education should be.
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@bmdrocks21
Fighting against strawmen and exaggerated enemies is a specialty of convervatism.
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@RM

Don't care, didn't ask.
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Threads like these remind me why most people who embrace this "do something" philosophy are the ones to attack people like Jordan Peterson for suggesting people focus their energy on cleaning their room before attempting to "save the world"


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@Greyparrot
Threads like these remind me why most people who embrace this "do something" philosophy are the ones to attack people like Jordan Peterson for suggesting people focus their energy on cleaning their room before attempting to "save the world"

Or to expand on that, only focusing on national politics in which they have little power instead of state and local politics where they have much more influence.

I do appreciate RM saying that it's a specialty of conservatives to fight strawmen while liberals compare everyone they don't like to Hitler or Klansmen. Really perfectly proves the point I made about the progressive utopian activists living in a different reality.
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Self-inflicted wounds.