This does not answer the question.
Then you failed to read the Moynihan report. Congratulations.
Critical Race Theory
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Total:
128
BTW, I'm willing to drop the block if you are. This indirect conversation is silly.
If you can behave like a normal person like DoubleR and n8nrgmi and not play Ad-Hom games, sure.
I'm way too old to entertain shitposters.
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@sadolite
I agree with a lot of what you say, but perhaps not quite so dramatically.
I certainly dislike the Nanny State syndrome, and I'm not quite sure how we arrived at this point. I'm more inclined to think that it is in fact, an inevitable result of material evolution, whereby technological and therefore social expectation is exceeding the capability of the masses.
I think that you are probably like me....Somewhat old school, sort out my own life, and ask for nor expect anything from others.
1984 might have been somewhat premature, but I think that George Orwell's prophecy, eventually won't be to far short of the mark.
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@Double_R
When I say “CRT is not being taught in schools” I mean it in the way the words I’m using to construct that sentence are defined.
Then you should be fully aware that when I say, "I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered 'teaching CRT,'" I am arguing that your definition is wrong.
You’re talking about vague notions of principals being accepted by educators in ways that are just bound to come out at some point, somehow, while interacting with students.
No, I'm not. But you ignored my question that was intended to show I am not just referring to vague notions and principles:
- Do you disagree that praxis is a necessary component of CRT?
My question was to the OP who was laying out a doomsday scenario of a kid being denied high school graduation for not passing a CRT course. That is an implicit claim that CRT being taught in schools is an issue we should be concerned about, so like any claim the burden is on him to prove it. This is why I asked for him to provide one example of it being taught anywhere. If he cannot, it goes to show that he is full of it and has no basis for him claim.
And I provided proof that there is at least one example of it being taught somewhere. This was your question:
- "Can you show me a K-12 school anywhere that teaches CRT?"
Assuming you meant it in the way the words you were using to construct that sentence are defined, showing evidence of a single K-12 school would satisfy your request no matter the context. Thus, the burden of your question as you asked it has been fulfilled. Don't get snippy because you asked a bad question.
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@oromagi
Praxis just means "practice" as in "practice what you preach." Jesus Christ was praxising Critical Pedagogy at the Sermon on the Mount.
How was Critical Pedagogy - coined in the 60's by Freire - being praxised by a Jew in the 1st century?
Freire's work in the 60's predates Bell's CRT so it can't be accurate that any Critical Pedagogy is correctly thought to be CRT....We do not agree that CRT means the same thing as Critical Pedagogy just because they both advocate practicing what ones preaches.
Since most of your post seems to be predicated off this point, I just want to make sure it is clear that I am not saying CRT and Critical Pedagogy are the same thing. My position would be that the praxis component of CRT (as opposed to the intellectual theory component) has taken the form of Critical Pedagogy in K-12 schools.
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@Greyparrot
The whole "CRT isn't taught in schools" is so ridiculous.If it were a requirement for all teachers to be Catholics, the left would lose their minds if it were said Catholicism isn't taught in schools.
It's just a weird obfuscation. "Critical race theory" is a term being used as a catch all for a number of pretty sinister and anti-white/racial essentialist concepts increasingly being taught, which are deeply unpopular among parents of all races. Maybe "critical race theory" is the wrong term, but I sure haven't seen a lot of democrats stepping up to defend some of the things being taught in schools.
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@thett3
As an educator in public schools, you would be shocked at the mandated "enrichments" teachers have to swallow as part of continuing "development"
You just sign your name, and nod your head for a few hours and if you are lucky, you forget the whole mess afterwards. If you are not so lucky, you regurgitate it all unwittingly in front of your students and hope none of them have parents that care.
This has been going on for decades. It's not a new thing.
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@Greyparrot
Like what?
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@ludofl3x
Merit or disabilities based on skin color.
It's part of mandated professional development days where kids get a few days off while teachers learn the latest fads in skinducation.
I have a folder full of certificates on the floor of the backseat of my car dating from 2015 onward.
Odd, maybe it was your district or location, because my parents (mom, dad, step mom) were public educators for a combined total of 110 years and never mentioned any fads in skinducation. Maybe it's new.
Can you detail what these were a little more? Like what are your certificates for? And, unrelated, why haven't you cleaned your car since 2015?
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@ludofl3x
Maybe they unwittingly paid attention then. Or maybe it's because like you said, I live in a heavily regulated Democrat state.
And, unrelated, why haven't you cleaned your car since 2015?
Because the certificates double as floor mats.
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@Greyparrot
Starting to get the feeling you're not really into any actual discussion, and just want to complain.
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@ludofl3x
I guess I am complaining. Sorry.
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@Greyparrot
LOL, we all have our days, brother.
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@Greyparrot
CRT is fundamentally racist in the worst way.
Right, because studying racism is the real racism. Typical right wing nonsense.
I find it deplorable that you continue to defend this junk science.
Find one thing I’ve said in defense of CRT, other than pointing out how the right wing obsession with it proves it’s central premise.
If you’ve actually bothered to read anything I’ve said you would realize that I couldn’t care less about defending it, my irritation is and has been all along the unwarranted hyper focus on this to which a man rode all the way to the VA governors mansion.
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@Double_R
If you’ve actually bothered to read anything I’ve said you would realize that I couldn’t care less about defending it, my irritation is and has been all along the unwarranted hyper focus on this to which a man rode all the way to the VA governors mansion.
Education has historically been one of Democrats best issues, if not their very best, and Biden won Virginia by 10 points in 2020. This was the first Republican win in any statewide election since 2009. You can either believe that Virginia, a highly educated and heavily Democratic state, is full of ignorant rubes who got easily played by Republicans manufacturing a controversy, or you can believe that maybe something sinister really was going on in the school curriculum there. Enough that a Republican got elected on the back of what is historically that parties biggest weakness.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Then you should be fully aware that when I say, "I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered 'teaching CRT,'" I am arguing that your definition is wrong.
Congratulations, you can make up your own words.
Do you disagree that praxis is a necessary component of CRT?
Yes. CRT is descriptive, not prescriptive. So until you can provide an actual example of how one could practice it within the school system I will continue to disagree.
And I provided proof that there is at least one example of it being taught somewhere. This was your question:"Can you show me a K-12 school anywhere that teaches CRT?"Assuming you meant it in the way the words you were using to construct that sentence are defined, showing evidence of a single K-12 school would satisfy your request no matter the context.
Wow, you really don’t like to read.
See my paragraph explaining why I asked the question and try again.
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@thett3
or you can believe that maybe something sinister really was going on in the school curriculum there. Enough that a Republican got elected on the back of what is historically that parties biggest weakness.
I’m perfectly fine accepting that… as soon as someone can provide a coherent factual argument supporting it.
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@Greyparrot
He did that to himself by lying to Congress about gain of function, Fauci is a straight up politician that repeatedly ignores science that doesn't grant him power.
So a career infectious disease expert is to you, all about power, and now all of a sudden you care about people lying to Congress.
Ok bro.
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@thett3
a highly educated and heavily Democratic state, is full of ignorant rubes who got easily played by Republicans manufacturing a controversy, or you can believe that maybe something sinister really was going on in the school curriculum there. Enough that a Republican got elected on the back of what is historically that parties biggest weakness.
I'll take Ockham's Razor for 1000.
CRT by any name is CRT
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@Fruit_Inspector
-->@oromagiPraxis just means "practice" as in "practice what you preach." Jesus Christ was praxising Critical Pedagogy at the Sermon on the Mount.How was Critical Pedagogy - coined in the 60's by Freire - being praxised by a Jew in the 1st century?
This was answered in the topic sentence of that paragraph: Critical Pedagogy is just a fancy term for teaching human rights. If you accept that Jesus' sermons advocated human rights, then Jesus was praxising Critical Pedagogy and so, following your equation, teaching CRT and so, following your equation, properly banned in 9 Republican states.
I am not saying CRT and Critical Pedagogy are the same thing.
My position would be that the praxis component of CRT (as opposed to the intellectual theory component) has taken the form of Critical Pedagogy in K-12 schools.
Praxis as in "practice." And what is the name of that praxis component? civil rights? Why speak of praxis components at all rather than simply say out loud what Derrick Bell's CRT shares with the practice of teaching human rights?
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@thett3
It's just a weird obfuscation. "Critical race theory" is a term being used as a catch all for a number of pretty sinister and anti-white/racial essentialist concepts increasingly being taught, which are deeply unpopular among parents of all races.
Here you concede my argument. The definition of CRT is most definitely NOT "a catch all for a number of pretty sinister and anti-white/racial essentialist concepts" yet you confess the Right is using it that way. But you see how dishonest that is, right? You take a wrong but well established body of argument in American Law and you besmirch its name by deliberately misusing the term to secretly mean "racism against whites" in Republican conversations. Then when you start passing laws against CRT, you've got the easily led RIght thinking that legislatures are just banning anti-White racism when you are in fact deliberately suppressing a 50 year tradition in Black speech. This is the precise nature of Tucker Carlson's undertaking beginning in Sept. 2020.
If Liberal conversations about CRT were increasing over the past ten or twenty years, a google search trending analysis of the term would reflect that increase.....but such analysis doesn't show that all. If anything, usage of the term from 2004 to Sept 2020 was in a decade long decline before Tucker started using the term as "a catch all for anti-white concepts" and usage of the term increased 14-fold overnight, hundredsfold over the next year. The Right isn't reacting to CRT, the Right received an instruction to use CRT as euphemism for more generic discontents and the Right slavishly obeyed.
If you and Fruit are trying to argue that some anti-White racism gets taught in public schools then I'd likely agree even before knowing the facts (which you are inexplicably shy in presenting). But, as you've just conceded, that is not CRT and the statement "CRT is not taught in US K-12 schools" stands unrefuted.
Maybe "critical race theory" is the wrong term,
Okay, then. You've conceded our thesis.
but I sure haven't seen a lot of democrats stepping up to defend some of the things being taught in schools.
Okay. That doesn't have anything to do with CRT but I'm sure that's true to some degree.
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@oromagi
If you and Fruit are trying to argue that some anti-White racism gets taught in public schools then I'd likely agree even before knowing the facts (which you are inexplicably shy in presenting). But, as you've just conceded, that is not CRT and the statement "CRT is not taught in US K-12 schools" stands unrefuted.
This is such a weird takeaway, though. If you think that many schools are engaging in racism you should be more angry about that than the fact that the opponents of that racism are using a term you don’t think is correct. But I simply don’t see that condemnation at all from you or anyone else. I don’t care about the term, it’s like getting outraged at someone calling aluminum foil tin foil
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@thett3
The issue isn’t that they are using the wrong term, it’s that they’re hiding behind it. If the real issue is that they disagree with what their kids are being taught, well now they have to engage in the conversation and make their case as to why it is wrong but they have no interest in that because they know they don’t know what they’re talking about. So instead the go-to is to demonize it by slapping a face on it and attacking the face they just slapped on it. It’s remarkably effective, but ultimately useless when it comes to anything outside of pure politics.
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@Double_R
If the real issue is that they disagree with what their kids are being taught, well now they have to engage in the conversation and make their case as to why it is wrong but they have no interest in that because they know they don’t know what they’re talking about.
A weird comment considering that ever since this controversy emerged conservative candidates have been winning in school board elections almost everywhere and, by your own admission, flipped the Virginia governors mansion. Perhaps the one who doesn’t know what they’re talking about here is you
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@thett3
Linguistics Professor John McWhorter speaks very intelligently about this issue. Here is one of his shorter interviews (< 20 minutes) if you’re interested:
Education has historically been one of Democrats best issues, if not their very best, and Biden won Virginia by 10 points in 2020. This was the first Republican win in any statewide election since 2009. You can either believe that Virginia, a highly educated and heavily Democratic state, is full of ignorant rubes who got easily played by Republicans manufacturing a controversy, or you can believe that maybe something sinister really was going on in the school curriculum there. Enough that a Republican got elected on the back of what is historically that parties biggest weakness.
I want to emphasize how unusual this is. Youngkin actually won the 1/4th of voters who said education was their top issue: https://www.cnn.com/election/2021/november/exit-polls/virginia/governor/0
This is the equivalent to a Democrat winning voters concerned about border security in Texas. Just a complete earthquake. Go ahead and deny that *something* happened at your own peril.
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@cristo71
Thanks I’ll give it a listen
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@thett3
A weird comment considering that ever since this controversy emerged conservative candidates have been winning in school board elections almost everywhere and, by your own admission, flipped the Virginia governors mansion. Perhaps the one who doesn’t know what they’re talking about here is you
It’s a weird argument to make - that the majority consensus gives the position credibility, when not only is the majority position the very thing being criticized, but also when the majority is overwhelmingly white and the topic is about how racism has impacted ethnic communities.