Critical Race Theory

Author: sadolite

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#31
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@n8nrgmi
Anyone who thinks racism dont exist or that blacks don't get disproportionately discriminated against is ignorant or irrational
One can affirm both of these statements and still denounce Critical Race Theory.
#32
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@sadolite
Can you show me a K-12 school anywhere that teaches CRT?
#33
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@Double_R
You've already been shown evidence of this.
#34
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@Fruit_Inspector
Why would someone agree that blacks get disproportionate discriminated and still denounce the theory? Why dispute that discrimination makes life harder for blacks?
#35
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@n8nrgmi
Why would someone agree that blacks get disproportionate discriminated and still denounce the theory? Why dispute that discrimination makes life harder for blacks?
There are a number of reasons one would do so. But you are conflating a rejection of CRT with a denial that discrimination makes life harder for black people. Why must someone accept CRT in order to believe racism exists?
#36
Double_R
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You've already been shown evidence of this.
No, I haven’t. Because we both agreed explicitly that CRT is not being taught in schools. You went on to argue that this is a dishonest talking point because the ‘elements’ of CRT are prevalent within education but that’s not only an absurd thing for a governor to ride to the governorship being that it has nothing to do with actual policy (which was and has been my entire point), but more importantly here… read the OP. He’s not talking about some vague notion of kids being taught about racism. He’s talking specifically about students refusing to take the course in order to graduate.
#37
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@Fruit_Inspector
The ideas go together racism and CRT in my mind.  The onus is on u to define how they're different enough to justify distinguishing
#38
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@n8nrgmi
CRT states all people of a certain color have power. That's not the same at all as noting SOME people of color have power.
#39
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@Greyparrot
Not even realizing how much power and privilege you have is yet another aspect of your privilege.

^^^ Man, it’s easy to argue for a concept which cannot be proven false…

#40
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@cristo71
Racism is such a tiny problem in America right now compared to actual problems. 4 dollar gas doesn't care what your skin color is.

Although I heard in California you can spray a tan on and qualify for smash and grab immunity.
#41
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@Greyparrot
No, being caught in blackface is an absolute livelihood ender. That is unless you are a lefty such as Canadian PM Trudeau, Joy Behar, and the former governor of Virginia. Trudeau even managed successfully to blame his poor judgment on his white privilege.
#42
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@n8nrgmi
The ideas go together racism and CRT in my mind. The onus is on u to define how they're different enough to justify distinguishing
Then you misunderstand CRT in your mind. Racism is not a concept that is unique to CRT. In fact, CRT did not exist until the 20th century originating in an American context. But to clarify, are you saying racism did not exist until the 20th century? If no, then one does not need to accept CRT to believe racism exists.

Also, does racism exist in other countries where white supremacy is not woven into the fabric of society? If yes, then one does not need to accept CRT to believe racism exists.
#43
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@sadolite
I think you could hypothetically tell any of your teachers that what they taught you was a load of hogwash. You might get a suspension or detention for it, but you can tell your geometry teacher that that's a load of useless crap, too.
#44
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@Double_R
You've already been shown evidence of this.
No, I haven’t. Because we both agreed explicitly that CRT is not being taught in schools.
I don't recall explicitly agreeing that CRT is not being taught in schools. I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered "teaching CRT" because praxis is a necessary component of CRT. Also, fundamental principles and definitions of CRT are being taught. Do you disagree that praxis is a necessary component of CRT?

Additionally, you stated that "96% of educators surveyed said CRT was not being taught in their districts" (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6962-tiki-torches?page=5&post_number=110). This means that unless you reject the findings of the survey you referenced, you argued that 4% of teachers admitted CRT is being taught in their schools. This should be enough evidence to fulfill your request showing that CRT is being taught in at least one school.


You went on to argue that this is a dishonest talking point because the ‘elements’ of CRT are prevalent within education but that’s not only an absurd thing for a governor to ride to the governorship being that it has nothing to do with actual policy (which was and has been my entire point), but more importantly here… read the OP. He’s not talking about some vague notion of kids being taught about racism. He’s talking specifically about students refusing to take the course in order to graduate.
Non of this information is necessary to respond to the specific question in your post #32. The question you asked was, "Can you show me a K-12 school anywhere that teaches CRT?" Either it is being taught or it isn't, and the OP has no bearing on whether that is true.

It seems though that you should already know the answer to your question, unless you were purposefully using false data. So do you accept the findings of the study you referenced (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6962-tiki-torches?page=5&post_number=110) that CRT is being taught in the schools of 4% of teachers?
#45
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@Fruit_Inspector
The whole "CRT isn't taught in schools"  is so ridiculous.

If it were a requirement for all teachers to be Catholics, the left would lose their minds if it were said Catholicism isn't taught in schools.
#46
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@Greyparrot
It is ridiculous. And while some people are simply arguing the point out of ignorance, many are knowingly making such arguments in order to distance themselves from the title of CRT. But that can also be a good sign because it means they believe their ideas are unfavorable enough that they will blatantly lie to save face.

It betrays a true lack of integrity when one is willing to lie as CRT advocates do on this issue.
#47
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@Fruit_Inspector
I'd also like to know how Ta-Nehisi Coates with a Net Worth of $19 Million is so oppressed in such a systemically racist country. It seems that there is no end to the profitability of race baiting. Such is the true fragility of people who believe skin matters.


#48
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@Fruit_Inspector
 I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered "teaching CRT" because praxis is a necessary component of CRT.  
Critical Pedagogy as coined by Paolo Freire  is just a fancy term for the radical notion that Democracy and Human Rights should be taught in school.  Praxis just means "practice" as in "practice what you preach."  Jesus Christ was praxising Critical Pedagogy at the Sermon on the Mount.  Martin Luther King was praxising Critical Pedagogy from the Birmingham Jail. 

Freire's work in the 60's predates Bell's CRT so it can't be accurate that any Critical Pedagogy is correctly thought to be CRT. 

"Bell and other legal scholars began using the phrase "critical race theory" (CRT) in the 1970s as a takeoff on "critical legal theory", a branch of legal scholarship that challenges the validity of concepts such as rationality, objective truth, and judicial neutrality. Critical legal theory was itself a takeoff on critical theory, a philosophical framework with roots in Marxist thought."

THIS is the definition of CRT, Bell's CRT, that I argue is not being taught in public school. I have not seen any evidence that K-12 public schools are teaching that reason is folly, that all truth subjective and all justice relative to power- an inherent rejection of the Liberal Consensus that formed the basis of 20th Century American cooperation and success.   Most teachers are Liberal.   CRT is a rejection of Liberalism.  If K-12 students are being taught CRT, then they are reading Derrick Bell.  If K-12 students aren't reading Bell or his acolytes, then it is damn difficult to argue that CRT is being taught in K-12. 

Tucker Carlson started teaching the Right to use the initials  CRT as a loosely defined euphemism for black civil rights beginning in Sept. 2020.  We can agree that CRT is wrong-headed and that the story of America is more often times a story of the triumphs of reason and truth and justice, but we do not agree that CRT means the same thing as civil rights.  We do not agree that CRT means the same thing as Critical Pedagogy just because they both advocate practicing what ones preaches. 

Also, fundamental principles and definitions of CRT are being taught. Do you disagree that praxis is a necessary component of CRT?
Praxis is a necessary component of every theory.  Praxis means "the practical application of any branch of learning."  Using Fruit_inspector's vague, reaching definition of CRT,  Socrates, Buddha, Benjamin Franklin - all scientists, all artists, all thinkers- even Tucker Carlson, were all teaching CRT (and so, now banned from public schools in  9 Republican states).

#49
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@Fruit_Inspector
I don't recall explicitly agreeing that CRT is not being taught in schools. I would actually argue that engaging students in Critical Pedagogy should be considered "teaching CRT"
When I say “CRT is not being taught in schools” I mean it in the way the words I’m using to construct that sentence are defined. You’re talking about vague notions of principals being accepted by educators in ways that are just bound to come out at some point, somehow, while interacting with students.

This means that unless you reject the findings of the survey you referenced, you argued that 4% of teachers admitted CRT is being taught in their schools. This should be enough evidence to fulfill your request
My question was to the OP who was laying out a doomsday scenario of a kid being denied high school graduation for not passing a CRT course. That is an implicit claim that CRT being taught in schools is an issue we should be concerned about, so like any claim the burden is on him to prove it. This is why I asked for him to provide one example of it being taught anywhere. If he cannot, it goes to show that he is full of it and has no basis for him claim.

Context actually matters in these conversations. I wasn’t asking because I need proof for myself, I’m not the one electing a governor over this issue. I’ve made that clear to you repeatedly. You don’t care because all you care about is finding a “gotcha”, like this 4% thing you really think you’re onto something with. But the 4% thing only makes my point further. Setting aside the fact that if CRT was actually being taught in schools we would have more than 4% of teachers saying it is (they’re likely doing the same thing you are), if only 4% of schools are teaching it then that goes to show how absurd the national freak out over this is. Which again, is an has been my point all along. Not your semantic game of “find one school that’s teaching it and claim victory”.
#50
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@Greyparrot
The whole "CRT isn't taught in schools"  is so ridiculous.
What ridiculous is the way the right uses the term CRT to hide behind what they’re really against; the acceptance of the idea that racism in our society as anything other than a relic of our past.

It’s a fallacious yet effective tactic; When you cannot defeat an idea on its merits just give it a face and demonize the face you gave it. It’s just like what the right is doing regarding the science of Covid by demonizing and attacking Dr. Fauci.

CRT is an actual course full of ideas that are meant to be controversial and make people think, so it’s easy to paint in a bad light. What CRT is not is a vague collection of definitions and basic principals regarding how we should think of racism.
#51
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@Double_R
CRT is fundamentally racist in the worst way. There are no exceptions under CRT for anyone of certain shades of arbitrary skin color.

I find it deplorable that you continue to defend this junk science.

demonizing and attacking Dr. Fauci.

He did that to himself by lying to Congress about gain of function, Fauci is a straight up politician that repeatedly ignores science that doesn't grant him power.

are meant to be controversial and make people think
The fact that racism and skinnism as a junk science can't be universally debunked in 2021, 60 years after the CRA and King's crusade to make the world colorblind, is testament to the power of profit from race-baiting. Coates, the Czar of modern race-baiters and skin-baiters himself is worth 20 million.
#52
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@Double_R
It's also not some fourth grade teacher saying "Ok, class, today we're going to concentrate on the economic impact of 200 years of slavery on the black community today" or "Today let's talk about how all police are racist pigs!" or "Today's topic, what's wrong with your white parents and why you should feel bad every day." As I believe oromagi accurately described, it is exactly like feminist theory or queer theory, it's just a LENS through which you can examine something. Not "Let's be critical of the white race idea." 

Why is it so hard to grasp what the word THEORY means? It doesn't always mean "One guy's guess at how things work." 
#53
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@ludofl3x
Why is it so hard to grasp what the word THEORY means? It doesn't always mean "One guy's guess at how things work." 

So you would have no problem with Holocaust denial theory being promoted in schools?

How about flat earth science and chemtrails? It's just theories after all!

How about the theory that the election was stolen in 2020, would that theory be ok to teach in schools?
#54
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@sadolite
Soo if public schools mandate that CRT must be taught in order to graduate, can the student take what ever test they give, pass then turn around to the teacher and say I took the class and  passed your test. And then say "I think it is the biggest load of race baiting garbage ever conceived of and wont listen to a word of it from here on out."
Yes. A student can cling to ignorance. 
#55
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@Greyparrot
So you would have no problem with Holocaust denial theory being promoted in schools?

How about flat earth science and chemtrails? It's just theories after all!

How about the theory that the election was stolen in 2020, would that theory be ok to teach in schools?
Yes, you've got the wrong usage of the word 'theory' here. This usage of the word theory is not synonymous with "idea" or "hypothesis."
#56
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@ludofl3x
This CRT craze will be irrelevant anyway once Democrats lose sufficient political power to permit the opportunity to reverse the social policies they implemented in 1965 that verifiably insured generations of black families would remain largely fatherless and far from the American dream. 

Brandon is making this reality possible.
#57
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@Greyparrot
This CRT craze...
Are you referring to the craze about it on the right?

I think it'll blow over eventually when some other manufactured outrage shows up. Isn't it about time to take up arms in the war on Christmas, anyway? 
#58
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This CRT craze will be irrelevant anyway once Democrats lose sufficient political power to permit the opportunity to reverse the social policies they implemented in 1965 that verifiably insured generations of black families would remain largely fatherless and far from the American dream. 
I wonder which 1965 policies Parrot desires to be overturned? Overturning the Voting rights act would be the most regressive, but reversing medicaid/Medicare would be a close second...
#59
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I wonder which 1965 policies Parrot desires to be overturned?

The ones that created generations of fatherless families. Go read the Moynihan report.

Don't pretend CRT is anything other than a scapegoat for Democrat failures to ensure their dynasty lives on longer than necessary.

If there is one thing that is constant through the years with Democrat elites, there is always someone else to blame.

Brandon is just the apex of a long line of blame Czars.
#60
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The ones that created generations of fatherless families. Go read the Moynihan report.
This does not answer the question. 

Don't pretend CRT is anything other than a scapegoat for Democrat failures to ensure their dynasty lives on longer than necessary.
I feel as though we are speaking a different language. CRT the conservative boogeyman, has very little relation to what CRT actually is. 


BTW, I'm willing to drop the block if you are. This indirect conversation is silly.