Who won in 2020?

Author: Double_R

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#1
Double_R
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It’s been almost a full year now since the election and we still have prominent politicians pretending they don’t know who won.

I’m curious to know what the temperature is on DART regarding this question. Do you believe Biden legitimately won the election, yes or no? If not, why not?

Obviously every left winger will say yes so I’m really just asking everyone else.
#2
Discipulus_Didicit
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Biden got 306 votes and Trump got 232.

9 out of 10 mathematicians agree that 306 is more than 232.

Do we really want mathematicians running this country though?

#stopthesteal #notmypresident #notmymath
#3
FLRW
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@Double_R

Obviously every intelligent person will say yes.
#4
cristo71
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The DNC won in the short term… America lost in the longer term.

I think we are seeing the increasing effects in our elections of corporate control over information (social media with its algorithms in particular) and how it is presented and distributed— or not distributed as the case may be…

“Overall, a potential interpretation of these results is as follows. Twitter users, and users of other social media platforms, are more likely to be young, well-educated, live in dense urban areas, and support the Democratic party (see discussion in Section 2). Perhaps as a result, Democratic politicians are more popular on Twitter than Republicans (Figure 1). In 2016 and 2020, Twitter became a vehicle for spreading opinions, particularly from Democratic-slanted users, on Trump. This may, in turn, have persuaded voters with weaker priors—independents and perhaps more moderate Republicans—to vote against Trump in the presidential election.49

7 Conclusion

Election officials around the globe are concerned about social media’s increasing influence on voting decisions (e.g. NPR, 2020a). At the time of writing, there is a heated debate about whether platform providers should “moderate” election-related content in the U.S. (e.g. Politico, 2020). Exploiting variation based on a shock to Twitter’s initial rise to popularity,
our paper provides some of the first empirical evidence that social media can affect election outcomes.
We find that Twitter lowered the Republican party’s vote share in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections. While this finding runs counter to a popular narrative that places social media at the heart of Trump’s election win, it is consistent with a growing body of evidence showing that social media users were less, not more likely to vote for Trump in 2016 or hold polarized views (Boxell et al., 2017, 2018).
We also provide support for the idea that the demographics of Twitter users may account for the platform’s partisan effects. People who use Twitter are 25 percentage points more likely to identify as Democrats rather than Republican, and Democratic politicians are more popular on Twitter than Republican ones. Our work suggests that this environment not only reflects selection of like-minded individuals, but also affects voting decisions, particularly for people with more moderate views.”

http://www.princeton.edu/~fujiwara/papers/SocialMediaAndElections.pdf
#5
Greyparrot
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Joe Biden won with an Asterisk.
#6
Ramshutu
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@Double_R
I recall a conversation with a Trump supporting friend. I walked him through what was going to happen during the election.

I showed him various laws in the Midwest, Florida, etc about when votes could be counted and how; I talked briefly about Arizona and Georgia. We both concluded that places like Florida will start blue and turn red, and places in the Midwest will start red and turn blue. We both agreed that the votes would take days to count. And I got him to acknowledge that if the democrats won in Pennsylvania, it would probably take a couple of days to find out. And I even got him to acknowledge that if the election was not called and was waiting for those states, Trump shouldn’t declare victory if he was leading.

I told him that Trump would probably claim victory on election night, then as the vote was counted, those places would turn blue - and he would claim fraud. He agreed that it would be completely unreasonable should he do so. He objected on the basis that Trump would concede if he lost

So when it happened exactly the way I had outlined, and exactly the way he agrees - he of course started reeling off unhinged Facebook screeds about how the result in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin clearly looked fraudulent - for exactly the same reasons he had acknowledged were perfectly reasonable a week before; and doubled down when I asked him to comment on his previous statements.


This is all to say that I think “believe” is not a word that appropriately conveys the concept people hold.


The statistics on how many people believe Trump really won the election is a measure of what proportion of the population have been completely disengaged with logic, reason, and reality - and are largely being driven along by right wing group think.


The remaining questions are:

- How much control do individuals like Trump have over the direction they take (probably a lot): the right wing has whipped up animosity and conspiracy thinking for decades; but they kinda lost control of it until Trump took control of it.

- How many can be whipped into violence; or supporting it. It seems the former is minimal, but the latter is substantial - BLM riot crackdowns was what worried me the most prior to the election - because it meant that if Trump tried to seize power, and violently suppressed pro democracy protests - he could just call it anti-fa and BLM, and the base would ignore it.

- How many non violent anti-democratic actions would this group support? There weren’t that many people standing in between a Trump Presidency this election; if that changes, there are going to be a lot of people who will not care if he takes charge anti-democratically (whilst obviously shouting about freedom the whole time)











#7
Dr.Franklin
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It was trump
#8
RationalMadman
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I'm left-wing but not stupid or arrogant enough to think that I know for certain that the elite string-pullers didn't forge/alter ballot results.

What you're missing here is of course the counters aren't 'in on it' if it was staged/faked. Instead, they are reading mail-in ballots some of which are forged and replaced the real mail (or replaced what would be sent in by a non-voter).

Since it is ultimately confidential, there's no way to back-check whether anyone who didn't vote actually has a vote sent (this is extremely top secret and violates the sanctity of confidential election results) so ultimately if it was faked, we'd never ever know if it was done correctly and the mail-in ballot mechanism taken full advantage of by those faking it.

I do actually think Biden won but I also can see just how viable it would be for the richest and most powerful to pull off something like this, they'd just need to corrupt a select few officials in a select few states to turn it.
#9
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@RationalMadman
Without mail in ballots, everyone knows Trump would have won. 

This time you’ll have GOP Governors in WI and MI though. Tony Evers is a dead man walking and Gretchen Whitmer is gonna have a hard time against James Craig.

After that all Trump will need is one of AZ and GA or NV + NH.


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#10
Double_R
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@RationalMadman
I'm left-wing but not stupid or arrogant enough to think that I know for certain that the elite string-pullers didn't forge/alter ballot results.
What does certainty have to do with anything? I don’t know for certain that my plane is going to land, that doesn’t stop me from getting on it and heading to my destination.

Do you have any evidence or reason to believe the election was stolen? If not, then why bother with this? Did you have the same concerns about 2016 or any other election?
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#11
Double_R
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@ILikePie5
Without mail in ballots, everyone knows Trump would have won. 
Turns out when more people vote republicans lose.
#12
Conway
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@Double_R
I have some experience in looking into this matter.  I actually have evidence in my possession of real voter fraud.  It's not from an internet article or based on statistics.  I know which political organizers it is traces to, how it connects to Joe Biden and at least one prominent figure who you might expect to be a bit corrupt and no longer holds office.  

I'm very confident that:

1.  Voter fraud is not exceedingly rare.  It is underreported to some unknown extent. 
2.  Voter fraud skewed the percentage minutely in 2020 for at least one state
3.  Joe Biden was elected President, and did not need the ballots to be miscounted.

If the information I have went public I'm quite confident it would be employed for evil purposes.  Suffice to say, I'm one of the few people here that has solid evidence of voter fraud.  

To be honest I haven't really done my due diligence in studying what emergency powers were exercised due to the pandemic without going through the traditional checks and balances we had come to expect from our state governments.  That is probably where I would look first if I were more vested in how the results are certified. 
#13
Conway
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@Double_R
I have some experience in looking into this matter.  I actually have evidence in my possession of real voter fraud.  It's not from an internet article or based on statistics.  I know which political organizers it is traces to, how it connects to Joe Biden and at least one prominent figure who you might expect to be a bit corrupt and no longer holds office.  

I'm very confident that:

1.  Voter fraud is not exceedingly rare.  It is underreported to some unknown extent. 
2.  Voter fraud skewed the percentage minutely in 2020 for at least one state
3.  Joe Biden was elected President, and did not need the ballots to be miscounted.

If the information I have went public I'm quite confident it would be employed for evil purposes.  Suffice to say, my perspective is as one of the few people here that has solid evidence of voter fraud, not some conspiracy theory or vague analysis.  

To be honest I haven't really done my due diligence in studying what emergency powers were exercised due to the pandemic without going through the traditional checks and balances we had come to expect from our state governments.  That is probably where I would look first if I were more vested in how the results are certified. 

#14
thett3
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@Conway

I'm very confident that:

1.  Voter fraud is not exceedingly rare.  It is underreported to some unknown extent. 
2.  Voter fraud skewed the percentage minutely in 2020 for at least one state
3.  Joe Biden was elected President, and did not need the ballots to be miscounted.
This is pretty much my take as well. Voter fraud does exist, and exists far more than many people would have you believe (like that there are one or two votes total a cycle) but the 2020 election, close as it was, still wasn’t nearly close enough to be stolen. The margins have to be Bush vs. Gore in Florida tier for that to happen IMO. 

The 1960 election is the only “modern” one where I think it’s plausible that it was stolen 
#15
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TRUMP SAYS REPUBLICANS WON'T VOTE if the GOP DOESN'T REPEAT his ELECTION LIES

Igor Bobic
Wed, October 13, 2021, 5:52 PM

Donald Trump warned that Republican voters will stay home in the 2022 midterm election and the 2024 presidential election unless the GOP fully embraces the lie that Trump beat President Joe Biden in 2020.

“If we don’t solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020...Republicans will not be voting in ’22 or ’24,” Trump said in a statement on Wednesday. “It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do.”

The twice-impeached former president has routinely spouted debunked claims of election fraud in the months since leaving office, even after the violent Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol.
All loyal Republicans are instructed by Dear Leader to sit out the next two elections.
#16
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@Double_R
Turns out when more people vote republicans lose.
***Turns out when there’s more room for fraud, Republicans lose.
Topic's author
#17
Double_R
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@ILikePie5
Room for fraud =/= republicans lost because of fraud committed by the other side

Please connect those dots.

I would also love to know your answer to the question this thread is about, probably more so than anyone else here since your avatar is a picture of the guy making this claim.
#18
Wylted
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@Double_R
I’m curious to know what the temperature is on DART regarding this question. Do you believe Biden legitimately won the election, yes or no? If not, why not?

Obviously every left winger will say yes so I’m really just asking everyone else.

Even people who think the election was stolen believe that Biden won correct?

I have seen some claim Trump is still secretly in charge, and in a biden skin suit, but I don't think they are in the majority.

Is this just going to happen every election now.

In 2016 we had people saying #notmypresident , and asking the college electorate to overturn the election and in 2020 we had people asking Mike Pence to somehow install Trump as president despite losing. 

What next. 

Foreign nations will continue to propagandize Americans some in favor of one politician others in favor of another. We will have a shit show at the polls because it is ran by volunteers and very poorly in some areas.

We have private companies with too much power over the voting infrastructure a lot of them with international ties and strong political leanings. 

The mail in ballots were an attempt to cheat by getting disinterested uneducated people to vote, because they usually swing left and Trump slowed down the post office to cheat by making sure all the ballots did not get delivered

Now we have cheaters trying to give Washington DC representatives who Don't realize DC is supposed to operate as a neutral territory and most of those people can move basically 5 miles into Baltimore if they want a representative. 

The elections are not fair and democrats pretending it is, when they won is not helpful. It's stupid 


Almost as stupid as Trump thinking election interference from Russians was good, just because it benefited him. 

The elections aren't fair. I know the response to a mass awakening on that will be scary. If people feel they have no voice they are basically forced to political violence. That is the big reason that the media and politicians lean towards keeping faith in the system and promoting it. However it's a bandaid solution. Both parties need to come together and stop cheating with gerry meandering or pouring 3rd worlders into purple states for political purposes. 

We need a 2 party compromised solution to overhaul the voting in this country and parties need to care not only when they lose, but when they win as well. It seems only the losing party ever bitches
#19
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@oromagi
All loyal Republicans are instructed by Dear Leader to sit out the next two elections.
Why aren't democrats leaning into this. Other than the risk of political violence. Republicans thinking their votes don't matter, means less will vote. It will help liberals win elections. 


#20
Wylted
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@ILikePie5
Turns out when more people vote republicans lose.
***Turns out when there’s more room for fraud, Republicans lose.

This won't work. The democrats do stuff like "rock the vote" or other methods to get disinterested people to vote, because they know most uninformed people break left. It doesn't make their ideology wrong, but it should give them pause that most idiots which is most people, agree with them
#21
oromagi
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@Wylted
-->@oromagi
All loyal Republicans are instructed by Dear Leader to sit out the next two elections.
Why aren't democrats leaning into this. Other than the risk of political violence. Republicans thinking their votes don't matter, means less will vote. It will help liberals win elections. 

Because more Democrats tend towards Liberalism and the principles of Liberalism recommend that everybody should vote- that societies work better when everybody votes.
#22
Wylted
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@oromagi
liberalism is dying oromagi. Quite frankly biden only won the nomination because Obama is a golden boy and he was associated with him. 

The future of the republican and democrat party is anti democratic and the winner will take all, both slides eroding your liberal values until it becomes merely a faint memory. 
#23
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-->@oromagi
liberalism is dying oromagi. Quite frankly biden only won the nomination because Obama is a golden boy and he was associated with him. 

The future of the republican and democrat party is anti democratic and the winner will take all, both slides eroding your liberal values until it becomes merely a faint memory. 
Well, FOX News teaches you to think that because a free and fair democracy spells the doom of the modern day Republican Party.

The fact is that Liberalism has been steadily expanding the franchise across the globe for all humanity s since Locke's Essay Concerning Human Understanding.

Look at the facts


Each generation is significantly more Democratic and Liberal than the last. The 18-35 year-olds vote Democratic by nearly a 2 to 1 margin.  The percentage of Americans who identify as Liberal has doubled since 2000. 
 
Yes, Republicans are increasingly resorting to corruption and violence in a futile effort to stem the tide but they are as day-traders against the steady slow and steady investment in people and the American institution but you can't kill us all.   As Auguste Comte quipped:  "Demographics are destiny"


#24
secularmerlin
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@Double_R
Do you believe Biden legitimately won the election, yes or no? 
No
The electoral college renders every presidential election into a mockery of democracy. It is not even representative democracy (which I am unconvinced I feel is particularly democratic anyway) but instead is cronyism. The electoral college is not elected by the will of the people and no federal law exists which enforces the electoral college to vote as they believe best represents their state or the nation. 
#25
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@oromagi
Each generation is significantly more Democratic and Liberal than the last. The 18-35 year-olds vote Democratic by nearly a 2 to 1 margin.  The percentage of Americans who identify as Liberal has doubled since 2000. 
 
When I say liberalism is dying I clearly did not mean people are not becoming more open to things like gay marriage, abortion having a welfare state, socialized medicine etc.

I was speaking of liberal values such as democracy, freedom of speech and rule of law.

The liberals in both the republican and democratic party, just are becoming more and more rare. Less and less tolerated. 

I think I've seen you bitch about the attacks on liberalism by the left who ironically identify as liberal because of the conflating of the terms.  

#26
949havoc
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Ultimately, Joe Biden loses. He is presenting mounting evidence daily that he is patently incompetent to be the President. He3 has yet to have a single accomplishment worthy of the office, and his poll numbers, even among Democrats who voted for him are tanking badly, so badly, even Jimmy Carter, at his age, is more cognizant of the fact than is Joe, himself, who is in a constant state of lalaland. Currently, he has held more pressers after which he has walked away when finished airing out his mind, such as it is, than stay to answer questions 
The party is in a real fix because the 25th is a looming necessity, but they know Kammie would be an unmitigated disaster, potentially the greatest risk to this democracy ever encountered. We're almost there now, under Biden.
Finally, if all that is not convincing, remember that Biden, himself, in one of the first gaffes ever presented by the candidate, said that he would "beat Joe Biden." i take him at his word: he's a loser.
#27
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Very Faux.



Getting the fuck out of Afghanistan.

And deposing the intellectually challenged Orange Man.

Two of the single most worthy accomplishments of recent U.S. history.

Good old Joe.



And inciting riots and refusing to admit that Orange lost the democratic vote, is democratic.....Hmmmmmm......LOL.


The Republicans need to give the jackboot to their current, us and them fascist mob and reassess their democratic credentials.


#28
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@Double_R
Room for fraud =/= republicans lost because of fraud committed by the other side

Please connect those dots.

I would also love to know your answer to the question this thread is about, probably more so than anyone else here since your avatar is a picture of the guy making this claim.
I think my answer has been very clear. It was stolen through violations of checks and balances within states and lack luster signature verification.
#29
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@Wylted
This won't work. The democrats do stuff like "rock the vote" or other methods to get disinterested people to vote, because they know most uninformed people break left. It doesn't make their ideology wrong, but it should give them pause that most idiots which is most people, agree with them
In only some states. GOP ground game in Texas is brilliant. I’ve personally done it. They know what they’re doing when you can net 10k more votes in 2020 than 2016 in one medium sized county
#30
Sum1hugme
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@Double_R
I have not been shown any compelling evidence that the election was fraudulent.