there are no good reasons to not get the shot for most who are unvaccinated

Author: n8nrgmi

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n8nrgmi
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the common complaint about getting the shot is that they fear side effects after getting the shot, well down the road in time.... but here's this

"Vaccines are highly unlikely to cause side effects long after getting the shot"

for every vaccine we've had in human history, the longest it's ever taken to develop side effects is six weeks. side effects, if there are any, are almost always immediate

this is from an actual reputable source. i'm sure this argument is the consensus within science. what are the sources who dispute this? random dudes on youtube, random websites no one's ever heard of. basically, trash sources of science. 

people who live in areas that supported trump in the election over 90% are ten times more likely to die than folks who live in areas with less than ten percent support for trump. showing, this is too much politics. 

the odds of dying from the virus is 7 in a thousand if you are unvaccinated. that's a high number. that's why hospitals and morgues are overflowing. that's why so many are dying, and why 2 in 1000 have already died. it's not even over yet. the odds for an average middle age person to die is about 2 in a 1000. still high. 

most people who refuse the vaccine just lack critical thinking skills... they're basically just idiots. that's all it boils down to. 

Greyparrot
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Tuskegee survivors disagree.
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Besides, nobody is going to give a shit about the virus once the Biden inflation hits and people learn what long lines and product shortages mean.

You'll be wishing for a time when all you had to care about was a virus.
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There's also a study with the Delta variant out of Israel.

"The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection."

So yeah, living in a bubble and attempting to be germ free has some drawbacks.
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There's also a study with the Delta variant out of Israel.
Strange study, it doesn't even mention if their symptoms were alleviated or not, just that they contracted it more
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@Greyparrot
There's also a study with the Delta variant out of Israel.

"The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection."

So yeah, living in a bubble and attempting to be germ free has some drawbacks.


the issue, is that in that study, having natural immunity plus one shot offered the best protection against the virus. also, even if natural immunity is better thtan a full vaccine, you still have to risk dying to acquire the natural immunity. plus, if you get the shot, even if your chances of getting positive are higher with the delta variant... you still have a much lower chance of getting hospitalized and dying. 
Greyparrot
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 that in that study, having natural immunity 

Which lockdowns are designed to suppress. There is no magic bullet or free lunch here. There's always a tradeoff for living a hyper sterile life.

What's far more dangerous than Covid is what we are doing to our children's immune systems during their developmental growth with the misguided lockdowns of children that result in permanent disability with compromised and atrophied immune systems.

We've known for a while that people who grow up on farms are less likely to have ailments related to the immune system than people who grow up in cities. Those include asthma, allergies, inflammatory bowel disease and multiple sclerosis.

Exposure to germs as a kid seems to be helpful, while living in an environment that's squeaky clean seems to pose risks for some illnesses. Still, nobody knew precisely why. But now some scientists say they think they've figured out the details of the "hygiene hypothesis."

They found that microbes in the gut keep a rare part of the immune system reined in. No microbes, and the immune cells go crazy in the lungs and intestines, increasing the risk of asthma and colitis. Add in the microbes, and cells in question, invariant natural killer T cells, retreat.

The discovery was one of those lovely "aha" moments in science. Or as says Richard Blumberg, the chief of gastroenterology at Brigham and Woman's Hospital in Boston, and co-author of the study says: "We made the serendipitous observation that these cells were dramatically enriched in the lung and colon in mice that lacked any microbes."

These are mice raised in totally germ-free environments in the lab. What really piqued the scientists' interest was that the immune response in the super-clean mouse innards looked very similar to what happens in diseases like asthma.

But they were still missing the connection with exposure to bacteria in early childhood. So Blumberg and his colleagues took pregnant germ-free mice and exposed them to microbes the day before they gave birth. The baby mice had fewer iNKT cells in their guts, even after they grew up.

The researchers also found that genetically altered mice without the iNKT cells don't get colitis, even if they were raised in a germ-free environment.

It's unclear which microbes help regulate the immune cells, according to Dennis Kasper, director of the Channing Laboratory at Brigham and Women's, and a co-author of the study, which was published online in Science. Figuring that out is very important, he says. "You can't just put any piece of dirt into a baby and direct the control of the immune system," he says.

He thinks there are a very few special molecules in the 500 to 1,000 species in the intestine that control the immune cells, but it's going to take a lot more work to figure that out.

Of course, this study was done in mice, but it gets at some fundamental questions that would be impossible ask in humans. No germ-free cages for us.

And their findings square with 20 years of epidemiological research showing that exposure to microbes and parasites in childhood reduces the risk of autoimmune disease.

There's evidence that children who are given antibiotics early in life are more likely to have immune-based problems like asthma and food allergies. There's even some evidence that women might have more autoimmune diseases than men because they're kept cleaner than boys as children.

These disorders are more common in developed countries, and in people who move from the developing world into tidier lands.

So parents may someday emulate the germy mouse world, rather than a scrubbed and sterile environment, to ensure the health of their offspring.

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@n8nrgmi
Well maybe I don’t wanna. How’s that for a good reason, eh?
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If someone has natural immunity, the vaccine can only harm them. Even if the chance of a complication is rare, or even if the side effect is just feeling sick for a few days, the net effect is negative. How is a negative cost/benefit analysis not a valid reason to refuse the shot?  

I saw a video from the FDA panel the other day, I will see if I can find it, where the expert said that for young men under 40 with no comorbidities the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine outweighs the risks of covid itself. If the vaccine works why do you care if other people have it or not 
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@thett3
Wrong.

Especially with the new mRNA form of vaccination, the lasting immunity is much stronger and longer lasting than from just getting Covid, it is designed (the mRNA vaccines, especially Pfizer) to help your cells recognise anything even similar to the Covid-19 virus and rapidly respond to it. mRNA-vaccinated are having much stronger resistance to Delta variant in both duration and severity of effects.
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“When you look at the balance of risks vs. benefits [of the vaccine] we really start to see the risk of myocarditis being higher in males under the age of 40.” In case it didn’t link properly the statement begins around 6:28:30. How is a negative cost/benefit analysis not a valid reason to not want the vaccine???  

People are 100% justified in wanting to see long term data before taking the shot. I think the vaccine is a very good thing, especially for  people at risk for covid, but the President of the United States forcing private citizens to get a brand new vaccine or lose their jobs is so incredibly over the line 
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I’m very pro vaccine because my wife is a nurse who works with covid patients and they are almost all unvaccinated. Many of them have died when their deaths were totally preventable and meaningless. However there are probably groups where the risks of the vaccine, low as they are, are greater than the risk of covid and I don’t see how forcing someone to do something that’s bad for them is justifiable. People really don’t understand just how severely age correlated with covid deaths and how little risk healthy young people are at 

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@thett3
People are 100% justified in wanting to see long term data before taking the shot. I think the vaccine is a very good thing, especially for  people at risk for covid, but the President of the United States forcing ALL private citizens to get a brand new vaccine or lose their jobs is so incredibly over the line 
Because people don't see the value of managing individual risks. They assume a 99.7% survival rate is for ALL people individually regardless of individual risk factors such as age and obesity when it is clearly not the case. Especially when you evaluate the risks of healthy weighted children under 12.

Covid is actually very discriminating as to the people it kills. We just aren't allowed for political reasons to use the "D" word in the woketopia of America.

Being obese is a disability.

Being old is a disability.

We just can't be allowed to say it publicly.
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@thett3
People really don’t understand just how severely age correlated with covid deaths and how little risk healthy young people are at

"Healthy 17-year-old died of COVID"
>click on story
>'healthy' teen is clearly over 300lbs
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@Greyparrot
They assume a 99.7% survival rate is for ALL people individually regardless of individual risk factors such as age and obesity when it is clearly not the case. 
Agree with everything in your post except this part, the average person definitely thinks the survival rate is far far lower than this. 
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@thett3
 the average person definitely thinks the survival rate is far far lower than this. 

But it is lower if you are obese and old.

But Biden didn't mandate vaccines for the fat and old, so there's that.
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I hope you are ready to catch the market dip when Oct 17 rolls around.
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I’m still so flabbergasted at the idea of the President ordering private citizens to get a vaccine or lose their jobs. I could not have even imagine that occurring two years ago. The Overton window has shifted to authoritarianism incredibly quickly. I really hope whatever regulation OSHA comes out with (if this whole thing isn’t just a scare tactic that’s memoryholed) is toothless 
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@thett3
I guess we will see when the first Jab Mandate drops on Oct 17 in Mass.

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@Greyparrot
It’s already almost impossible to get trucks booked for product at work, I’m dreading even further constraints on the labor force 
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@Greyparrot
nobody is going to give a shit about the virus once the Biden inflation hits 
We are definitively in a repeat of the 70s, and between Biden and Carter, Carter is no longer the scapegoat; evidence that Biden has learned nothing of history, even within his lifetime. He's a more worthless snot that I ever gave him credit for being. He doesn't even get how badly this is being scored by Democrats, who, at least in my personal experience, are just shaking their heads, and hoping they survive long enough to kick him out in '24, if he lasts that long. Some are even missing Trump.
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@thett3
i guess it is worth looking into how often someone under 40 and in perfect health, dies. then that can be compared to the 12 in a million cases of myocarditis  who get sick. note, the large majority of those with myocarditis have only a mild case. a rare disease, with a mild consequence for almost all of the cases. 
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After Wednesday's meeting, the Department of Health and Human Services released a statement co-signed by the CDC and several medical professional groups that stressed the heart condition is extremely rare.
"Only an exceedingly small number of people will experience it after vaccination," HHS said. "Importantly, for the young people who do, most cases are mild, and individuals recover often on their own or with minimal treatment. In addition, we know that myocarditis and pericarditis are much more common if you get COVID-19, and the risks to the heart from COVID-19 infection can be more severe."

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@n8nrgmi
Do you think there's a real benefit to vaccinating people at extremely low risk like .001% or less like children?

How would you feel about a vax mandate for the obese only? (who are at a greater than .1% chance of dying from a simple Covid infection)
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@Greyparrot
One assumes that adhering to measures has decreased the statistical probability of said simplicity.

Underplaying from a position of relative security is also simple.


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@zedvictor4
Free lunch fallacy
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@Greyparrot
Hey.  If  the USA could afford free action adventure holidays in Afghanistan for the past  20 years. Then it can also afford a few domestic free lunches.

Debt....What debt?

Debt fallacy.
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@n8nrgmi
I have a few employees who refuse to get vaccinated. One of them actually came to me because he got fired from his other job for refusing the vaccine. It seems to be about mistrust and such, along with strange ideas about medicine. Lots of belief in quackery and holistic things. At least that's what I'm seeing. 
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@n8nrgmi
Fake news