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@3RU7AL
correct, god created the world perfectly in his vision
Is anything perfect.
Posts
Total:
111
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@Dr.Franklin
correct, god created the world perfectly in his vision
So you are saying god needs glasses?
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@FLRW
um no
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@3RU7AL
@Dr.Franklin
I think this is the point that 3ru7al is trying to make. God is allegedly perfect and created people in his image. If God created man in his image, then man is perfect, through inductive reasoning. If man was once perfect, then man should currently be perfect, as a perfect thing would never lead to an imperfect things. For example, a perfect parent would not sin because they are perfect. A perfect being would perfectly teach their children to be perfect, thereby creating perfect children. The cycle then continues. Perfect parent --> perfect children. Perfect children grow into perfect parents, which lead to perfect children. The usual response of "free will" does not suffice, as even if a perfect being had free will, they would never choose to do anything wrong. Sure, they can chose to kill their children, but of course if they do so, they are not perfect.
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@Bones
If God created man in his image, then man is perfect
no.
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@Dr.Franklin
From all of our past exchanges, I have to say you're not the sharpest knife in the draw.
If God created man in his image, then man is perfectno.
You are left with two options. Either A, God did create man in his image, but the imagine is faulty i.e God is faulty ir B, God tried to create man in his imagine but failed.
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@Bones
From all of our past exchanges, I have to say you're not the sharpest knife in the draw.
wow ok
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@Dr.Franklin
Would you like to debate the existence of God then? Walk the walk?
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@Bones
ok.
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@Dr.Franklin
Accept.
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@Dr.Franklin
correct, god created the world perfectly in his vision
PERFECTO
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@Dr.Franklin
omnipotence isnt defined by "the ability to do anything you want"
OMNIPOTENCE = POWER MONOPOLY
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@fauxlaw
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT WORLDWhy? Nice equation, but, clearly, the world is not perfect, and that says nothing for the condition of God. This is not his home. It's ours.
Imagine you are a master-computer-programmer.
You are decide to create a simulated cosmos.
You design a planet.
You design some plants and animals to live on that planet.
You design some intelligent creatures.
These intelligent creatures start poisoning the planet and killing each other off.
WHO DO YOU BLAME ?
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@3RU7AL
WHO DO YOU BLAME ?
You've missed five steps in your attempt to relate to creation and its consequences:
1. Your master programmer has not given an overall plan for intelligent creatures to understand their purpose in their creation.
2. Your master programmer has not acknowledged and allowed both good and evil to co-exist in his program.
3. Your master programmer has not given the intelligent creatures any instructions relative to their expected actions.
4. Your master programmer has not allowed the intelligent creatures free agency to choose between good and evil actions.
5. Your master programmer has not provided a meaningful plan for the intelligent creatures to overcome their mistakes.
Whereas, in the real world, the Earth, as created, God provided all five steps for the intelligent creatures he created, and it is all described within the first 3 chapters of Genesis.
Without these five steps, you blame the master programmer. With them, as was actually done, you blame the intelligent creatures for not following instructions.
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@fauxlaw
1. Your master programmer has not given an overall plan for intelligent creatures to understand their purpose in their creation.
The master-programmer defines the plan.
2. Your master programmer has not acknowledged and allowed both good and evil to co-exist in his program.
The master-programmer defines the purpose and end-goal (teleology) for all life-forms and the planet itself.
3. Your master programmer has not given the intelligent creatures any instructions relative to their expected actions.
There is no "external instruction" for wolves or dolphins or ants, why would "external instruction" be required for any creatures if they are properly designed?
And even iff there is "external instruction" added to the simulation, this becomes simply another variable in the program that can be adjusted to perfection.
4. Your master programmer has not allowed the intelligent creatures free agency to choose between good and evil actions.
Every "intelligent" action is a consequence of a corresponding instinct and desire built into the original design.
The master-programmer can run the simulation to the conclusion to see the result (omniscient) and then rewind it and make any adjustments desired in order to meet teleological imperatives. In other words, if something goes "wrong", the master-programmer can simply tweak the initial variables in order to achieve their desired conclusion.
5. Your master programmer has not provided a meaningful plan for the intelligent creatures to overcome their mistakes.
It is illogical to blame a program, even a hyper-intelligent program for any "mistakes" it might make. Especially when the simulation can be stopped and rewound and "fixed" (omniscience/omnipotence).
It is impossible for the simulation to reach an end-state that is not exactly what the master-programmer intends.
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@3RU7AL
yo make sense
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@3RU7AL
free will is perfect
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@FLRW
So you are saying god needs glasses?
So the patriarchal { he/male } God needs glasses. LOL
Rather, it is the irrational, illogical lack of common sense fundamentalist who need a brain that does rational, logical common sense processing 95 perecent of the time instead of only 3% of the time.
Is the she/female version of God more less irrational than the he/male version of God?
God = Universe aka finite, sum-total set of occupied space integrities.
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@Dr.Franklin
Damn, you talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.
Update: Franklin declined the challenge to debate.
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@Dr.Franklin
free will is perfect
Are human actions CAUSED (OR) UNCAUSED?
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@3RU7AL
explain
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@Dr.Franklin
explain
(IFF) human action is CAUSED (THEN) PERFECT GOD CAN CONTROL HUMAN ACTION BY CONTROLLING THE CAUSES OF HUMAN ACTION
(IFF) human action is UNCAUSED (THEN) NOBODY CAN CONTROL OR PREDICT HUMAN ACTION
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@3RU7AL
Human action is caused by something that preceded it.
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) human action is CAUSED (THEN) PERFECT GOD CAN CONTROL HUMAN ACTION BY CONTROLLING THE CAUSES OF HUMAN ACTION(IFF) human action is UNCAUSED (THEN) NOBODY CAN CONTROL OR PREDICT HUMAN ACTION
interesting... the causes of human action do stem back from God
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@Dr.Franklin
(IFF) human action is CAUSED (THEN) PERFECT GOD CAN CONTROL HUMAN ACTION BY CONTROLLING THE CAUSES OF HUMAN ACTION(IFF) human action is UNCAUSED (THEN) NOBODY CAN CONTROL OR PREDICT HUMAN ACTIONinteresting... the causes of human action do stem back from God
AND GOD IS PERFECT
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@3RU7AL
correct
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@Dr.Franklin
correct
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT HUMANS = PERFECT WORLD
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@3RU7AL
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT HUMANS
incorrect, a perfect God could have perfect intent to create imperfect humans
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@Dr.Franklin
PERFECT GOD = PERFECT HUMANSincorrect, a perfect God could have perfect intent to create imperfect humans
HUMANS = PUPPETS OF GOD