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@ludofl3x
uh when did i say that
What is your favorite argument for the existence of God?
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@skittlez09
Sorry, wrong poster! :)
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@ludofl3x
lol its coo
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@ludofl3x
the biblical definition of God speaks of Him as an eternal being. I am not SP that, the Bible says as much. Thus, it boils down to who you place your ultimate authority in. You added "except this one thing," and yes, the parentheisis are mine. I added that. Here is my statement and the highlighted text above is your addition.Your addition of (begins to exist) implies that you don't think god began to exist and therefore doesn't need an explanation according to the premise itself.
Leibniz believed that for something to exist there was a sufficient reason. Thus, the sufficient reason, Leibzin believed, is God. So when he stated his first premise in the causal argument, I believe he was arguing for what began to exist - I.e., the universe.
“There is,” Leibniz writes in the New Essays, “a moral and voluntary element in what is physical, through its relation to God. . . . [B]odies do not choose for themselves, God having chosen for them” (A VI, 6, 179 [NE 179]). Mechanical bodies, understood as phenomenal hunks of matter, do not exhibit intentionality. Thus, they do not frame their own ends in the way that immaterial substances do. Still, there is a sense in which they are subject to final causes, for they act for the ends that God has set for them, and they do so by way of mechanical efficient causation. Thus, there is some suggestion that Leibniz held that both efficient and final causation permeated the universe at multiple ontological levels.
So, I believe when he offered premise 1 he had in mind a beginning, hence the brackets I inserted, since it is my own thought on the matter.
Not only this, but even without Leibniz, I believe that the material universe has a beginning (when we speak of beginnings we speak in relation to time) and God does not begin since He is eternal, existing outside the space/time continuum.
With an infinity of time how would you arrive at the present from the past and get to the future? Everything would be present. Time is meaningless in infinity - timeless. We, as creatures, have a beginning and we relate to time. We categorize time into seconds, minutes, days, weeks, years. We are able to measure the start of something from its end.
Definition of eternal
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: having infinite duration : EVERLASTING eternal damnation
b: of or relating to eternity
c: characterized by abiding fellowship with God good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?— Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)
2a: continued without intermission : PERPETUALan eternal flame
b: seemingly endless eternal delays
3archaic : INFERNAL some eternal villain … devised this slander— William Shakespeare
4: valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS eternal verities
1a, states having infinite duration. There is no easy way to describe eternaity without putting some time reference into explaining it. The biblical God explains eternity as "I am." He is. That includes past, present and future since He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Alpha and Omega signified that God is the beginning and end of all created things. Eternality is an attribute of the Judeo-Christian God.
You mean to tell me you didn't put this in here as a way to keep the door ajar for an eternal something? Maybe I misread. But I didn't, because you then say "the bible says god's eternal." As usual, claim as evidence. "The bible says this" doesn't support that being true, you know that already.
In such matters a person believes according to their highest authority. You disbelieve in God because you think you are the final court of appeal. You weigh the opinions of subjective minds on the matter because you do not recognize an objective, absolute authority. That is the difference in our two beliefs. You plead for your limited authority. I plead for a necessary authority that can make sense of the universe. I believe the Bible offers many proofs or reasonable evidence for the existence of God. I believe God is the answer on the impossibitity of the contrary. I do not believe it is possible for mindless, dumb, indifferent chance happenstance to cause let alone sustain the universe. When I engage with disbelievers I ask them what is reasonable to believe. I do not see an atheist as having a reasonable belief once his/her foundation or starting presuppositions are examined. It is as simple as that.
You claim God does not exist or there is no evidence for His existence.
I claim God does exist and the evidence is found in what is made (the universe/us) and via a written revelation in which God chooses to make Himself known to His creatures.
So, I reason the evidence for God is available in many ways and everything about us, but three ways encompass them all, IMO - 1) by what is made (the complexity, unity and diversity of it, as well as its sustainability), 2) the Bible (claims to be His word or interaction with us and is steeped in history - people, places, events in history), and 3) a personal relationship with God in accordance with His requirements (as stated in the Bible) and obtained by a reasonably justifiable, not blind faith.
When I pray, I witness answers to my prayers. God confirms His presence in many ways to my mind. My mind is opened to His word and what it says. What He says makes sense. Events, upon reflection, and people bear witness to answered prayer. I see many things that coincide with my asking God. Not only this, my mind reasons about existence and what is necessary or best explains it. It continually informs me of what can make sense of it. For example, I argue for knowing and explaining right and wrong (morality). How do you make sense of it from a subjective standpoint with no fixed ultimate reference point? Do you think you have what is necessary to make sense of it? If so, I challenge you to do so. The same with existence. Do you, once you deny a Creator, have what is necessary to make sense of it? I challenge you to make sense of it.
What do I get when I offer these chllenges - waffling and incoherence. I even get people state, "I don't know." Yet they rule out God based on naturalism and materialism as their solution. They come to the table with their preconceived opinions and work strictly within the bounds of such starting points - the natural realm or physicality/materialism. They try to explain things from the perspective of humanity as the ultimate measure. The question is which subjective persons in humanity do they point to as their final authority?
They don't have what is required to make sense of existence. Their intellectually elite gatekeepers they appeal to as their relative gurus are who they point to, if not themselves. Their pride and confirmation bias get in the way of thinking clearly on the issues for they always come to the table with their baggage in hand. And they cling to that baggage like their is no tomorrow.
John 8:31-32 (NASB)
The Truth Will Make You Free
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
The Truth Will Make You Free
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
I do believe you are in bondage to a lie. You are so engrossed in it that when someone tells you what is true you don't hear it. Jesus summed it up on the principle of two foundations:
Matthew 7:24-29 (NASB)
The Two Foundations
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
28 When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; 29 for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
The Two Foundations
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
28 When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; 29 for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
Your heart belongs to where you place or rest your ultimate or final authority in, God or humanity. Now contrast the two. One is absolute, the other relative. One is objective, the other subjective. One is all knowing, the other is ignorant. Upon hearing the biblical message and upon presenting the evidence what do most people do? They dismiss it as special pleading, not realizing they are just as guilty as they plead from naturalism. What is able to help you make sense of existence, God or chance happenstance? Is the answer in the box (the universe) or outside it? What say you? Are you going to find the answer within the universe or within yourself? Or do you think you have the answers and can explain them? Explain them, or I leave you to your subjective, limited self and ignorance of life's ultimate questions or at least their answers.
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@PGA2.0
Not only this, but even without Leibniz, I believe that the material universe has a beginning (when we speak of beginnings we speak in relation to time) and God does not begin since He is eternal, existing outside the space/time continuum.
Does anything else exist outside of this space time continuum? Can a different spacetime be demonstrated?
You disbelieve in God because you think you are the final court of appeal.
I don't believe in God for the same reason you don't believe in elves. There's no real evidence I can verify independently.
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@ludofl3x
He exists outside of space/time continuum.Please show me how. Alternatively, show me something ELSE that exists outside of the space time continuum. No one even heard of Jesus until 2000 years ago, and God maybe 3000 or 4000 years prior to that, using even the most generous of the dating techniques and assuming all the writings were fact (like that global flood!). How's that support this theory that they exist outside of space and time?
I can only offer you what is reasonable to believe. What you do with it is your own business.
Exhibit A - It is reasonable to believe the universe had a beginning. If you do not accept this you must believe the universe is eternal. Is that the case? Which avenue shall we go down?
Exhibit B -I can offer you the Bible and its evidence. The Bible speaks of being His word and that word as the greatest authority. If you do not accept this, I ask you, what is your greatest authority? Is it yourself? Are you your final reference point? Is it some other subjective, limited, relative human being on the matter of the existence of the universe and yourself? Is that the case? If so, who is this authority or authorities and why should I believe them?
As for Jesus, the OT points continually to Him and the NT points continually to references of Him by quoting the OT.
As the for dating techniques, what is reasonable to believe? Do we have evidence the OT was written before the 1st-century? Do we have sufficient and reasonable evidence that the NT canonical writings were written before AD 70? I believe the evidence is more reasonable for this pre AD70 dating. I am willing to debate this with you, either here or in a formal debate.
1. Everything that (begins to) exists has an explanation for its existence.Can you show me something that exists that has no explanation for its existence?This is a shift in the burden of proof. I'm not making the claim that everything that exists (why is the parenthetical there, is that yours or his?) has an explanation for its existence. That's your problem. I'd say cool, now let's see something that exists but somehow never began to exist and we'll talk!
It is a question. I have already given you my reasoning. I am inquiring into your reasoning and explanation. Do you think things exist that have no explanation for their existence??? I'm I not allowed to do that? You keep asking me for my reasoning. Why can't I ask you for yours? Is this a two-way dialogue? Am I not allowed to investigate your belief system and reason for your statements? In this way the two sides of thought regarding this matter can be measured by others.
Then why existWhat's your answer? Is it Jesus? That doesn't make any sense either. I don't know "why"I exist, but I know I'm going to die someday and I want to leave the world a better place for the people who come after me, in some small way, even if I'm not remembered in fifty years. It's pretty straightforward.
My reason, because I have a purpose for my existence, because there is meaning for why I exist.
Since you know you are going to die one day I would suggest you find out as best you can since one of us is wrong and if it is you, you will be held accountable. Do you leave the world a "better place" if there is no ultimate reason for it to be better, and what do you mean by better? Better requires a best, a final measure or it can mean anything, thus nothing suginifcant.
Can you make sense of the universe? It appears not:You've repeatedly demonstrated you can't either, except I'm not hte one saying "I can make sense of this unsolvable problem, just by saying Jesus did it this way and therefore it makes sense."
But I can - God, a necessary Being who gives it its existence then sustains it. What sustains your universe? Blind indfierent chance? No reason?
I'm happy to converse but you can keep the walls of text, they're boring and I don't have all that time.
I do not supply them just for your benefit alone. I want others to understand the deficiency of your worldview.
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@PGA2.0
Do you think things exist that have no explanation for their existence???
What's the explanation for your god's existence? Does it have one? And does any other something share this explanation?
Am I not allowed to investigate your belief system and reason for your statements?
Sure, ask away, but even if my argument is wrong, that doesn't make your argument right. Certainly doesn't make it sound. You use this trick a lot, asking me if X is more reasonable than Y, when neither X nor Y are dependent on each other. It also doesn't mean "more reasonable" = "true." Demonstrably true is all that matters, and to date you have not grasped this concept. A book making a claim isn't evidence for the claim itself, especially when you juxtapose how young the book is compared to all of time itself, if god were real why would he wait so long to write a book about it, why would it make it so insanely difficult to verify its existence if it cared about the inhabitants of this planet? There's no reason to believe whatever this entity might be is your god, if it's there, either. You admit you suppose it is, then when asked "why is Vishnu wrong" you basically say "because the bible says so" or "my way makes more sense to me" without acknowledging that it makes LESS sense to the majority of humanity on earth.
Make your argument independent of what you imagine my argument is. All I'm saying is I don't believe in anything supernatural, in any different space time continuum, because none of that has been demonstrated to be true.
Do you leave the world a "better place" if there is no ultimate reason for it to be better, and what do you mean by better?
I don't need a cookie to do my best to do the right thing. I mean a better place to live for my kids, which means teaching my kids to be good people, good leaders, good examples and good members of their very diverse community. All without having to think "I sure hope Jesus lets me in to his house when all this is over." People like you are disturbing,because it seems like you feel if there was some way to prove Jesus wasn't real, you would immediately go out on some crime spree because there's no afterlife.
And I don't care about the prophesy, and you've said you don't either, so why keep bringing it up?
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@ludofl3x
Do you think things exist that have no explanation for their existence???What's the explanation for your god's existence? Does it have one? And does any other something share this explanation?
NOTE: Failure to answer yet another question. You continually pass the buck. I'm asking for your explanation.
God is a necessary Being to make sense of existence. I do not believe anything else qualifies, however you are welcome to argue for something else.
"All the evidence suggests that the universe and its component material parts, energies, laws, et cetera do not exist of necessity. Rather, they are contingent. So what explains their existence? To appeal to more contingency merely begs the question. Eventually we have to arrive at an answer in terms of something which exists of necessity."
I would argue you nor I am necessary for the existence of the universe. If you did not exist I would still perceive it and visa versa. I would also argue that blind chance happenstance cannot make sense of origins or why things remain constant/sustainable (i.e., laws which allow us to predict). The Bible says universe conveys information.
Psalm 19:1-3 (NASB)
The Works and the Word of God.
For the choir director. A Psalm of David.
19 The heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2 Day to day pours forth speech,
And night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words;
Their voice is not heard.
Or do you want to argue the universe is necessary (your choice)? To do so you will have to argue for an eternal universe, IMO, otherwise it is contingent once again on something else. Do you want to argue for an eternal universe, and how does that stack up with the available evidence we have of it?
Am I not allowed to investigate your belief system and reason for your statements?Sure, ask away, but even if my argument is wrong, that doesn't make your argument right.
We are arguing for diametrically opposite views - God or no God. One of us, logically, is wrong. Either God exists or He does not. He cannot exist and not exist at the same time.
Certainly doesn't make it sound. You use this trick a lot, asking me if X is more reasonable than Y, when neither X nor Y are dependent on each other.
It is not a trick. Either we are here because of blind, indifferent chance happenstance which I argue has no explanatory power, no intent, no agency, or we are here because of the purpose of a necessary being. Perhaps you could find another reason, like you are creating an illusion. So, the question is, why are we here? Why do we exist and what best explains our existence? Do we come from a necessary Being who is intelligent, mindful, purposeful, reasoning, like us, or do we somehow derive our existence from blind indifferent, purposeless chance happenstance? Of these two, which is more reasonable an explanation? If you say blind, indifferent chance happenstance then explain how it is more reasonable. If you say, "Who cares?" it appears you do or you would not be having a meaningful exchange.
Again, are you going to brush of my questions as fluff or boring?
It also doesn't mean "more reasonable" = "true." Demonstrably true is all that matters, and to date you have not grasped this concept.
Oh no, I do grasp it. Demonstrate anything to me regarding origins that you know is true. Demonstrate that your worldview can make sense of origins. That is the difference right there. Your starting point (blind random chance happenstance) leads to a dead-end in making sense of anything. Now, if that is how you want to live your life (seeking a dead-end) then why are you trying to make sense of it? Why are you living as if it matters? That is INCONSISTENT from your starting point. Your starting point makes you a walking contradiction. You borrow from my Christian framework in making sense of things.
Now, the reason that you seek meaning and purpose, I say, is because you were created for a purpose and you never achieve that purpose unless you find God.
A book making a claim isn't evidence for the claim itself, especially when you juxtapose how young the book is compared to all of time itself, if god were real why would he wait so long to write a book about it, why would it make it so insanely difficult to verify its existence if it cared about the inhabitants of this planet?
You assume two things, perhaps more. You assume that either the universe is old, or you assume that without human beings it would have meaning, other than for God. I could argue against both of those assumptions. Let me add two more assumptions you make, 1) that the books (66 different writings by around 40 different authors) are not a revelation from God and 2) that it does not supply sufficient evidence. The evidence it contains is sufficient for God's purposes.
As for the book, it is unique. Why would God write "a book" about creation in which He reveals Himself to His creatures? Because He made you in His image and likeness for a purpose. Being made in His image means you too have a will; you make choices. How would He allow for us to verify the book is true or reasonable to believe? First, His authority would be a compelling reason. Second, ultimately making sense of existence without God is improbable/impossible and unreasonable. Third, the book would contain information that is confirmed by various means, such as history or reason.
There's no reason to believe whatever this entity might be is your god, if it's there, either. You admit you suppose it is, then when asked "why is Vishnu wrong" you basically say "because the bible says so" or "my way makes more sense to me" without acknowledging that it makes LESS sense to the majority of humanity on earth.
You are wrong, there is reason to believe this biblical God. He has attributes that are necessary for the existence of the universe, for one. The Bible, I contend, has confirmations and a unification other religious writings do not have. It deals with a history of a people and their relationship to God. They are used by God to introduce us to Him.
Make your argument independent of what you imagine my argument is. All I'm saying is I don't believe in anything supernatural, in any different space time continuum, because none of that has been demonstrated to be true.
Since you do not believe anything supernatural my suspicion is well founded. You are a naturalist, a materialist, a secularist, and I would hazard an empiricist. How am I doing?
I argue your mind is not open to God. I can't convince someone who is not willing to consider the evidence. But what I can do is expose the folly of your belief system, maybe not to yourself but to others. I will start with your next comments which I will save for a separate post. I will also remind any other person reading this that you are playing a great game of dodgeball! Evade my questions and deny the incapability of your thought system in explaining origins! Great job!!!
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@PGA2.0
Your questions ARE fluff and boring.
So, the question is, why are we here?
Don't really know what this means, but I'm sure if it's as grand as you make it out to be, I don't know. I'm not sure there is a 'why.' This is not a claim I make. It's a claim YOU make.
....and what best explains our existence?
Again, not sure what you're asking me to explain. I don't think something that is undemonstrable, like an additional space time continuum, does, but I'm looking forward to you showing that it's there, and your Nobel prize speech.
Do we come from a necessary Being who is intelligent, mindful, purposeful, reasoning, like us, or do we somehow derive our existence from blind indifferent, purposeless chance happenstance?
Can you show me this being, or demonstrate its existence, so I can make the assessment based on evidence and not a guess and a wish? Are you sure these are the only two choices?
Now, the reason that you seek meaning and purpose, I say, is because you were created for a purpose and you never achieve that purpose unless you find God
I don't seek it. I make it. I decide what my life should mean and what it should be.
You assume that either the universe is old
I interpret the evidence and conclude that the universe is old. I don't assume it. And I'm open to any new evidence so I can re-assess my position. Do you have any evidence it isn't old? What's "old" mean to you, anyway?
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@Tradesecret
.
Tradesecret,
YOUR GOING NOWHERE QUOTE: “the fact that you continue to run this parody is sad and pathetic.”
What is truly pathetic is the fact that your post #111 went nowhere, where you talked in circles, as usual. Its like you gain pleasure in wordy posts that you have no idea that are embarrassing as shown. You failed to address your biblical ignorance pertaining to you stating that the Hell bound coin flipper Agnostic rationally believes that there is nothing that can be known about God is true, whereas I am assuming you are talking about Jesus and not Zeus, whereas this is blatantly false! All the “fence sitting” Agnostic needs to do is read the JUDEO-Christian Bible, and they will see all about our TRUE Jesus being a complete SOB, no pun intended relative to the whore Mother Mary. Your ignorance remains laughable at your expense once again
What is truly pathetic is the fact that your post #111 went nowhere, where you talked in circles, as usual. Its like you gain pleasure in wordy posts that you have no idea that are embarrassing as shown. You failed to address your biblical ignorance pertaining to you stating that the Hell bound coin flipper Agnostic rationally believes that there is nothing that can be known about God is true, whereas I am assuming you are talking about Jesus and not Zeus, whereas this is blatantly false! All the “fence sitting” Agnostic needs to do is read the JUDEO-Christian Bible, and they will see all about our TRUE Jesus being a complete SOB, no pun intended relative to the whore Mother Mary. Your ignorance remains laughable at your expense once again
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YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: “One of the reasons I don't come back here often and respond is because of people such as yourself.”
Yeah, this can be understood because “people like myself” continue to show your outright pseudo-christian presence ad infinitum within this forum, and because it this, you have to remain in hiding upon other forums to try and save face to running away from TRUE Christianity at DEBATEART. Your diatribe upon this topic doesn't even come close to your rightful laughable and embarrassment in your "outer space" Denomination post elsewhere upon this forum! LOL
As long as I am here upon this forum, I will continue to show your posts as Devil Speak, and not the true words of our serial killer Jesus the Christ, understood?
You are excused.
YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: “One of the reasons I don't come back here often and respond is because of people such as yourself.”
Yeah, this can be understood because “people like myself” continue to show your outright pseudo-christian presence ad infinitum within this forum, and because it this, you have to remain in hiding upon other forums to try and save face to running away from TRUE Christianity at DEBATEART. Your diatribe upon this topic doesn't even come close to your rightful laughable and embarrassment in your "outer space" Denomination post elsewhere upon this forum! LOL
As long as I am here upon this forum, I will continue to show your posts as Devil Speak, and not the true words of our serial killer Jesus the Christ, understood?
You are excused.
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@BrotherDThomas
LOL!
Wow! You have really made so much sense now - so persuasive in your commentary - how could I have been so blind? Oh master of the bible and corrector of all those who mistake you for a half sucked tictac.
Why don't you pull your pants up and give your mouth a go?
Seriously! Do you think your commentary is helpful or going to actually assist. I made a comment about the philosophy of agnosticism. I merely took their logic and applied it to itself - to demonstrate PERSUASIVELY that it was internally inconsistent. You never denied this by the way. You did not refute it. Such an internally inconsistent philosophical statement is proof - that God exists. I am not saying it is a good one or not. I am not saying it proves who God is or defines what God is. All I said was it proves the existence of God. In fact I recall I actually said it does not prove that God is not a pimple on my backside.
But the far bigger question and one I did not address because the topic of this question was not about proving which God exists or who God is - who is God? Yet, this topic is not about who is God - it is about what is your favourite argument for the existence of God. I answered that - I gave my favourite one. I never said it was my best one and I never said it would persuade anyone else. You should learn how to read - rather than blazing in with two guns about something you have no clue about.
I have no respect for you - since you lie all of the time. Whatever you say - I disregard like I do with people such as Harikrish. Neither of you are Christians. You might have read "parts" of the bible - but you have never read the bible. You don't even know how to read properly. You certainly do not have an understanding of its culture, its language, its genre nor its saving power. For you it is a game - a pathetic one at that. Since you don't believe it anyway - you mock it and anyone who does believe it. This makes you like a very cruel and dangerous person.
I pray for you - by the way- it does seem that God is telling me no at the moment. I hope against hope that God will appoint you for his kingdom - but that will take a work of God - not my words. Yet, he saved Paul, so I am confident that he can save anyone. If Paul was the chief of sinners - that puts everyone including you at a slightly less advantage. And that works for me.
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@Tradesecret
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Tradesecret,
YOUR QUOTE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO RUN AWAY FROM IN POST #111: “In other words, for the agnostic to rationally believe that there is nothing that can be known about God is true - he or she must start with a premise that they do know something about God, and that something is that nothing can be known.”
Once again, with specificity, YOU STATED that the Coin Flipping Agnostic thinks that nothing can be known about God, which in your case is Jesus, therefore you were a wimp in not pointing out to the Fence Sitter that there is something to be known about your God, which again is Jesus! Get it? But, what do you do, you run away from spreading the Gospel of Christ to the Agnostic. LOL!
Again, you slap Jesus in the face by not promoting Him to the Hell-bound Agnostic like He has told you to do. Your ever so wanting posts makes you the continued Biblical fool here on DEBATEART by not following the passages below:
“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16)
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)
YOU CONTINUE TO SLAP JESUS IN THE FACE QUOTE IN YOUR POST #161: "Such an internally inconsistent philosophical statement is proof - that God exists. I am not saying it is a good one or not. I am not saying it proves who God is or defines what God is. All I said was it proves the existence of God.”
Barring the historicity that outside of the JUDEO-Christian Bible, the existence of Jesus is not worthy, then why are you so afraid, or embarrassed, about not promoting that Jesus is God in said post?! You continually use the title of “a god” and not respectfully use His actual name, which in our case is the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, named Jesus! H-E-L-L-O? Listen up biblical fool, what part of the inspired word of Jesus in the passage below don’t you understand relative to your disrespectful posts?
“And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17). Do I need to get my neighbor's 5 year old kid to explain the passage above to you? Huh? The comical irony is that you think you are a Christian, when as easily shown, you are not, but only a pseudo-christian at best in name only.
Tradesecret, to save yourself further embarrassment, you are dismissed.
NEXT?
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@BrotherDThomas
One wonders whether you have forgotten to take your medication. You certainly do not have the sense of a sane person when you respond in the way that you do. You have no love for Jesus so stop pretending that you do.
I did not refer to Jesus - because the topic did not call for me to talk about Jesus. It asked a question, I responded and did so in the terms of the topic. On the other hand, I did not respond in the way that you wanted me to, so you get cranky and all tied up in knots. This is why you go round in circles repeating yourself. I don't have any desire to go over and over points that you DONT have the capacity to understand. I am not going to waste my time.
The question DID not call for a responder to argue for the existence of a particular god or to define who that god might be. Hence - ergo I did not attempt to do so.
If you were to respond to the question yourself - rather than JUDGING all others - who provide much better responses than you do - then perhaps you might actually contribute. But simply going through other's comments and picking faults is no better than the creationist scientist who trolls through evolutionary magazines in order to score an occasional point. You start with the premise that you have nothing worth saying and simply prove it over and over again. BORING!
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@Tradesecret
Tradesecret,
What part of "you are dismissed" didn't you understand? Yet, you come forth to be made the biblical fool once again, priceless!
Tell the membership, WHY are you so embarrassed not to mention Jesus as your God in your weak discussions within this forum? At any time a TRUE Christian like myself is in discussion with a Hell bound coin flipping Agnostic, I always bring forth Jesus and His TRUE words to make them the fools that they are. You, on the other hand, HIDE AND DO NOT MENTION JESUS to the disgraceful Agnostic in any discussion with them, when in fact, the scriptures tell you to do so (Colossians 3:17) Matthew 28:19).
Furthermore, you noticeably forgot to spread the gospel like Jesus says for you to do when in discussion with a non Jewish Christian, therefore, where do you get the authority to bypass this edict as well (Mark 16:15-16, Matthew 28:19)? Please, don't use your same ol' tired embarrassing notion of; "The question DID not call for a responder to argue for the existence of a particular god or to define who that god might be, yada, yada, yada, yada" because that only shows more disrespect towards Jesus and your biblical ignorance!
You have comically run around in circles to NOT mention Jesus as your God of choice when in discussion within this forum, but only to hide from His name, therefore, your demeaning MO towards Christ is certainly duly noted, and you will have to answer upon Judgment Day!
SIDEBAR: Your child like and outright demeaning first sentence towards me is showing that you have to use this inept tactic because you know you are drastically losing this discussion, and the only way you can get out of your biblical ignorance and disarray towards Jesus, is to "try" and demean your adversary to take the lime light off you! What did I expect? LOL!
Now, once again, if you want to be made the continued biblical fool, then respond once again, because Jesus and I haven't even started with you yet, understood? We have a "plethora" of outright biblical passages that you are pissing on, so be our guest, and respond. Or, for you to save yourself from more embarrassment, learn your place within this forum, and just remain silent to Jesus' true word, although it will be at your continued expense, get it? Probably not. :(
NEXT?
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@BrotherDThomas
Ok - it seems you have forgotten to take your medication. Please be a good boy and go and take it before you come back to the discussion for grownups.
Oh by the way - it is not your topic - you don't get to dismiss me. Dismissing people is a sign of fear not of authority. It speaks of someone who is afraid to address the real issues - it is cowardly behaviour.
I am not embarrassed to speak about Jesus. He is my king and my God. This topic was not about Jesus. It was about arguments for the existence of god. True Jesus is my God - but the topic was not about my God - it was about arguments for the existence of God. Sometimes it is important to crawl first before you walk. I might have started with Jesus - but I did not - since the topic did not ask for it. I could care less what your interpretation of the topic is - I responded to the topic poster - and they have a right to ask me further questions in relation to it. You don't. Or if you do have any right - it is for clarification not for nitpicking based around your own heresies.
I am amused that I have even responded to you. Again I reiterate for your benefit - this topic was not about Jesus - even though technically speaking it is about god. It certainly was an option you could have taken if you wanted to prove Jesus as God existed. Yet, it was not mandatory as part of the question for everyone - including those who do believe Jesus is God. I must say then that it is telling that you did not prove the existence of Jesus. You as always and quite predictable simply asserted the truth without proof. Hence why Paul the apostle and God the Trinity rejects the words that spew out of your mouth - Paul told the believers to give a reason for the hope that they have. To show themselves worthy of the calling that they have - to be like the Bereans studying the words of God. God and the Bible never just assert things - there is in general - a tendency to give a reason and explanation why such a thing is so.
You on the other hand - forget the reasons - forget the proofs - (quoting a text is not a proof it is lazy) and simply assert. Hence why you are arguing the case for something you do not believe in - and are doing it in such an obviously insulting and derogatory manner. I suggest you go into the kitchen - get out that little white container with your name on it - and open it up and take those little pills that you have been prescribed by your mental health practitioner. Perhaps this time - they might even let you out of that little white jacket so you can do it all by yourself. Who knows? Perhaps you could be nice and ask them to undo the white straps.
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@Tradesecret
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Tradesecret,
First off, lets bring forth your losing and child-like behavior in your ad hominen attacks upon the Brother D., shall we? These ad hominem attacks shown below are from your posts in our discussion, to wit:
1. "Why don't you pull your pants up and give your mouth a go?"
2. "One wonders whether you have forgotten to take your medication."
3. “Ok - it seems you have forgotten to take your medication. Please be a good boy and go and take it before you come back to the discussion for grownups.”
4. "I suggest you go into the kitchen - get out that little white container with your name on it - and open it up and take those little pills that you have been prescribed by your mental health practitioner."
5. "Perhaps this time - they might even let you out of that little white jacket so you can do it all by yourself. Who knows? Perhaps you could be nice and ask them to undo the white straps."
Your “Little Boy” behavior shown above is just “trying” to undermine my biblical axioms that I have brought forth in your miserable behalf, because you cannot address them, but to only hide from them. Therefore, to take this embarrassing fact away of yours, you bring forth ad hominem attacks to the Brother D to cast doubt to discredit me in taking the limelight off of you running away from Jesus’ TRUE words. I am not surprised that you use this old ruse that is so revealing of your assumed intellect.
1. "Why don't you pull your pants up and give your mouth a go?"
2. "One wonders whether you have forgotten to take your medication."
3. “Ok - it seems you have forgotten to take your medication. Please be a good boy and go and take it before you come back to the discussion for grownups.”
4. "I suggest you go into the kitchen - get out that little white container with your name on it - and open it up and take those little pills that you have been prescribed by your mental health practitioner."
5. "Perhaps this time - they might even let you out of that little white jacket so you can do it all by yourself. Who knows? Perhaps you could be nice and ask them to undo the white straps."
Your “Little Boy” behavior shown above is just “trying” to undermine my biblical axioms that I have brought forth in your miserable behalf, because you cannot address them, but to only hide from them. Therefore, to take this embarrassing fact away of yours, you bring forth ad hominem attacks to the Brother D to cast doubt to discredit me in taking the limelight off of you running away from Jesus’ TRUE words. I am not surprised that you use this old ruse that is so revealing of your assumed intellect.
TRADESECRET; PLEASE, I NEED YOU ON THIS FORUM TO SHOW OTHERS IN WHAT A TRUE PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LOOKS AND ACTS LIKE, OKAY? I DO NOT WANT YOU BANNED, THEREFORE REREAD THE ETIQUETTE EXPECTATIONS AND THE COC THAT MODERATOR RAGNAR AND OTHERS HAS SET FORTH RELATIVE TO YOUR AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. YOU CAN THANK ME LATER.
YOUR LAUGHABLE QUOTE: “Oh by the way - it is not your topic - you don't get to dismiss me.”
At times I truly feel sorry for Jesus’ creation like you whose deplorable biblical ignorance is without bounds. Therefore, I try and help them to not continually step in the proverbial poo, like you have done, by giving them a hint to not continue in this vein, therefore I dismiss them so they hopefully get the hint of not returning to the discussion. But, what do you do? Yes, you come back again with another vain attempt to right yourself towards my godly claims that you are no more a TRUE Christian than the equally dumbfounded of the Bible, ethang5. I was dismissing you from our discussion, irrelative to the topic, therefore I would suggest that you take a Reading Comprehension Class posts haste to rectify your ignorance of the English language in the comprehension thereof, understood?
YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: “Sometimes it is important to crawl first before you walk.”
Truthfully, you’re not even out of the crib yet to be able to crawl in the first place! Your demeaning character towards Jesus proves this fact continually by not following said passages inspired by Jesus! Laughable once again at your expense, thanks again.
YOUR QUOTE MAKING YOURSELF THE CONTINUED BIBLICAL FOOL: “I am amused that I have even responded to you.”
DUH! I am “amused” that you continue to respond to me as well, especially since I gave you a way out by dismissing you, and this is because of the FACT that I am easily making you the continued biblical fool by you blatantly discarding Jesus’ inspired words. How many passages do I need to pile up for you in showing this fact?
YOUR DOWNFALL QUOTE ONCE AGAIN: “Hence why Paul the apostle and God the Trinity rejects the words that spew out of your mouth”
In a nutshell, here are the words that I have given you that are explicit facts about our Jesus that you continue to run away from and hide. As a TRUE Christian, I have had to accept the following biblical facts about Jesus, because who am I to rewrite the Bible for these facts to be removed?!
Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent.
This is disregarding the FACT that you continue to slap Jesus in the face by not following His inspired word in the passages shown below in my discussion towards your biblical ignorance with an Agnostic:
“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16)
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)
“And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17).
In a nutshell, here are the words that I have given you that are explicit facts about our Jesus that you continue to run away from and hide. As a TRUE Christian, I have had to accept the following biblical facts about Jesus, because who am I to rewrite the Bible for these facts to be removed?!
Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent.
This is disregarding the FACT that you continue to slap Jesus in the face by not following His inspired word in the passages shown below in my discussion towards your biblical ignorance with an Agnostic:
“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16)
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)
“And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17).
Tradesecret, you are so laughably predictable, Jesus and I can't wait for your next post where you will continue to slap Him in the face once again, and where I will easily Bible Slap you Silly®️ in return! LOL!
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@BrotherDThomas
Hi BrotherD,
thanks for the laugh and the extra dose of hypocrisy. If I were to remove every one of your ad hom attacks on me - there would be little left.
LOL! some examples for you: underlined for your attention.
Lets bring forth your losing and child-like behavior in your ad hominen attacks upon the Brother D., shall we?Your “Little Boy” behavior shown above is just “trying” to undermine my biblical axioms that I have brought forth in your miserable behalf, because you cannot address them, but to only hide from them. Therefore, to take this embarrassing fact away of yours, you bring forth ad hominem attacks to the Brother D to cast doubt to discredit me in taking the limelight off of you running away from Jesus’ TRUE words. I am not surprised that you use this old ruse that is so revealing of your assumed intellect.TRADESECRET; PLEASE, I NEED YOU ON THIS FORUM TO SHOW OTHERS IN WHAT A TRUE PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LOOKS AND ACTS LIKE, OKAY? I DO NOT WANT YOU BANNED, THEREFORE REREAD THE ETIQUETTE EXPECTATIONS AND THE COC THAT MODERATOR RAGNAR AND OTHERS HAS SET FORTH RELATIVE TO YOUR AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. YOU CAN THANK ME LATER.YOUR LAUGHABLE QUOTE: “Oh by the way - it is not your topic - you don't get to dismiss me.”At times I truly feel sorry for Jesus’ creation like you whose deplorable biblical ignorance is without bounds. Therefore, I try and help them to not continually step in the proverbial poo, like you have done, by giving them a hint to not continue in this vein, therefore I dismiss them so they hopefully get the hint of not returning to the discussion. But, what do you do? Yes, you come back again with another vain attempt to right yourself towards my godly claims that you are no more a TRUE Christian than the equally dumbfounded of the Bible, ethang5. I was dismissing you from our discussion, irrelative to the topic, therefore I would suggest that you take a Reading Comprehension Class posts haste to rectify your ignorance of the English language in the comprehension thereof, understood?YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: “Sometimes it is important to crawl first before you walk.”Truthfully, you’re not even out of the crib yet to be able to crawl in the first place! Your demeaning character towards Jesus proves this fact continually by not following said passages inspired by Jesus! Laughable once again at your expense, thanks again.YOUR QUOTE MAKING YOURSELF THE CONTINUED BIBLICAL FOOL: “I am amused that I have even responded to you.”DUH! I am “amused” that you continue to respond to me as well, especially since I gave you a way out by dismissing you, and this is because of the FACT that I am easily making you the continued biblical fool by you blatantly discarding Jesus’ inspired words. How many passages do I need to pile up for you in showing this fact?YOUR DOWNFALL QUOTE ONCE AGAIN: “Hence why Paul the apostle and God the Trinity rejects the words that spew out of your mouth”In a nutshell, here are the words that I have given you that are explicit facts about our Jesus that you continue to run away from and hide. As a TRUE Christian, I have had to accept the following biblical facts about Jesus, because who am I to rewrite the Bible for these facts to be removed?!Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent.This is disregarding the FACT that you continue to slap Jesus in the face by not following His inspired word in the passages shown below in my discussion towards your biblical ignorance with an Agnostic:“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16)
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)
“And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17).Tradesecret, you are so laughably predictable, Jesus and I can't wait for your next post where you will continue to slap Him in the face once again, and where I will easily Bible Slap you Silly®️ in return! LOL!
What is left?
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@BrotherDThomas
At the end this is all that is left: your quotes without the attacks.
Lets bring forth your ad hominen attacks upon the Brother D., shall we?Your behavior shown above is undermin[ing] my biblical axioms. Therefore, you bring forth ad hominem attacks to the Brother D to cast doubt to discredit me.TRADESECRET; PLEASE, I NEED YOU ON THIS FORUM TO SHOW OTHERS IN WHAT A TRUE CHRISTIAN LOOKS AND ACTS LIKE, OKAY? I DO NOT WANT YOU BANNED, THEREFORE REREAD THE ETIQUETTE EXPECTATIONS AND THE COC THAT MODERATOR RAGNAR AND OTHERS HAS SET FORTH RELATIVE TO YOUR AD HOMINEM ATTACKS.YOUR QUOTE: “Oh by the way - it is not your topic - you don't get to dismiss me.”YOUR QUOTE: “Sometimes it is important to crawl first before you walk.”YOUR QUOTE : “I am amused that I have even responded to you.”DUH! How many passages do I need to pile up for you in showing this fact?YOUR QUOTE: “Hence why Paul the apostle and God the Trinity rejects the words that spew out of your mouth”In a nutshell, here are the words that I have given you that are explicit facts about our Jesus. As a TRUE Christian, I have had to accept the following biblical facts about Jesus, because who am I to rewrite the Bible for these facts to be removed?!Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent.This is disregarding the FACT.“And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16)“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)“And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” (Colossians 3:17).
As you can - there is nothing to address - because you have said nothing.
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@Tradesecret
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Tradesecret,
YOUR WANTING POST: "What is left? "
Well, I can see you're having a hard time with my words towards you, where they are FACT, whereas yours are childlike and truly demeaning. Obviously you don't know the difference, and why am I not surprised?
Another entity that is left is the fact that you are STILL RUNNING AWAY from my factual MO of our Jesus the Christ? Why? Here, let me give it to you once again because of your continued oversight of this topic is now counted at 3 RUNAWAYS, okay? Ready?
Within the scriptures, Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent. Also, our Jesus was an abortionist which leaves a lot of embarrassment if we picket Family Planning Clinics, do you get our hypocrisy if we do?
Since the above MO of our Jesus is biblically true, can we still call Him all loving and forgiving? Yes or no? WAIT, this can be our next topic, where I hope you don't RUNAWAY once again in front of the membership, okay? Remember, not only is the membership watching you now in this request, Jesus is too! (Hebrews 4:13)
Let me know when you are ready, Jesus and I will be waiting.
My prayer to Jesus: Dear Lord, as we've seen before, the totally biblically ignorant Tradesecret continues to run away from your TRUE inspired word relating to your brutal and horrific modus operandi. Therefore, I can only wonder in what lame and childish excuse he will use to runaway once again. Since you are omniscient (1 John 3:20), you know in how Tradesecret will runaway from discussing your despicable MO, therefore, can you tell me how he will perform this cowardly act? Thanking you in advance, praise!
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@BrotherDThomas
YOUR WANTING POST: "What is left? "
Well, I can see you're having a hard time with my words towards you, where they are FACT, whereas yours are childlike and truly demeaning. Obviously you don't know the difference, and why am I not surprised?
Another entity that is left is the fact that you are STILL RUNNING AWAY from my factual MO of our Jesus the Christ? Why? Here, let me give it to you once again because of your continued oversight of this topic is now counted at 3 RUNAWAYS, okay? Ready?
Within the scriptures, Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent. Also, our Jesus was an abortionist which leaves a lot of embarrassment if we picket Family Planning Clinics, do you get our hypocrisy if we do?
BDT - I have read your mischaracterization of Jesus before. That is your opinion. Good for you. Yet, I don't see a question in it.
Since the above MO of our Jesus is biblically true, can we still call Him all loving and forgiving? Yes or no?
Well, what do you know, a question. I reject your first premise, since you have only asserted such things about Jesus, not proved it. And the burden of proof is on you to substantiate such lies. So, I am not bound to address the question you put. In fact - all I have to do is reply to your assertion with my own. Which is simple to do. Yes. Jesus is loving and he is forgiving. In fact I could even throw one verse in - John 3:16 which states God loved the world. Hence if any verse is to be accounted as correct- then this is one which directly and expressly states that God loves the world. And lo and behold - as we keep reading that verse - it also shows that God is forgiving. After all - it clearly expresses that everyone who trusts in Jesus will not perish but have everlasting life. The very fact that it says - those who trust in Jesus will not perish - is evidence of his forgiveness. Why else would it be put there? And that they now receive life - is more evidence of God's wonderful grace. So the answer to your question which stands alone and apart from any premises that you have asserted - is yes, God is still loving and forgiving.
Now to follow on with this - firstly, your question and premise is a little like the old lawyer conjob - have you stopped beating your wife yet? It assumes much in it - none of which has been established.
Secondly, For God to continue to be loving and forgiving does not mean that he cannot also be holy and just - sentencing everyone else who does not trust Jesus into Hell. In other words, the two things are not mutually exclusive. He loved Jacob and he hated Esau. He can still be loving towards Jacob while hating Esau. The fact that he hates Esau does not stop him from loving. I love my wife - and I detest pedophiles. The two things are not mutually exclusive. There is no law or principle that anyone - including God has to be loving towards all things all of the time. That is just a nonsense statement - like your premise about Jesus.
I also find it interesting that you continue to put human traits onto a divine person. Doesn't the inconsistency of this even bother you a little bit? God is not human. God is not subject to the same classifications as humanity. Nor is he subject to laws of humanity. To call God any of the things you have raised in what you label his MO - is to bring God down to the level of humanity. Another reason - why it is such a hypocritical act of yourself to pretend to be a believer. The fact is - you don't have a clue.
WAIT, this can be our next topic, where I hope you don't RUNAWAY once again in front of the membership, okay? Remember, not only is the membership watching you now in this request, Jesus is too! (Hebrews 4:13)
Let me know when you are ready, Jesus and I will be waiting.
You obviously have a little perspective of Jesus - that you think he is waiting just for me. Your God is too small. My God will eat your made in the image of BrotherDThomas pseudo Jesus for breakfast. He will do him - if he cares - what he did to Dagon in Dagon's own temple.
My prayer to Jesus: Dear Lord, as we've seen before, the totally biblically ignorant Tradesecret continues to run away from your TRUE inspired word relating to your brutal and horrific modus operandi. Therefore, I can only wonder in what lame and childish excuse he will use to runaway once again. Since you are omniscient (1 John 3:20), you know in how Tradesecret will runaway from discussing your despicable MO, therefore, can you tell me how he will perform this cowardly act? Thanking you in advance, praise!
I take the view that your pseudo Jesus, like you, because he is made in your image, is toothless - powerless, boring - and probably guilty of everything you have asserted. I also spit in his face. I dare him - as I dare you - strike me down dead - as his MO so promotes that he does. And if he can't or if you make excuses why he is away - I will assume like the Philistinian god, of Baal, that he is on a toilet break - or throwing up into the toilet because he could not hold down his curds and weigh.
Oh yes, as always, I remain - not running away.
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@zedvictor4
Well, there are certainly a plethora of arguments and variations of the GOD principle.Though I was referring directly to the biblical god and it's various derivations, nonetheless the necessity for non-causation applies to all models, as nothing, and more so something from nothing is seemingly inconceivable.... I was therefore simply extrapolating from the basic premise of non-causation, the unnecessity of a tangible, myth based god. Because if one thing can exist without cause then everything can exist without cause.That is not to say that material development and the evolution of things thereof should not be referred to as a GOD principle. It is the mythological god hypotheses that accompany human development that I take issue with..... Gods created in our own image....Naive solutions to an inconceivable beginning.
I have a problem with Gods created in our own image as well.
I'm guessing you have an issue with a God creating us in his own image?
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@Tradesecret
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Tradesecret,
YOUR CONTINUED RUNAWAY QUOTE ABOUT JESUS’ TRUE MO: “BDT - I have read your mischaracterization of Jesus before. That is your opinion. Good for you. Yet, I don't see a question in it.”
God damn it, Jesus came through once again in prayer that I initiated yesterday, when He woke me up at 3am to tell me that the biblically ignorant Tradesecret was going to use the old tired out ruse of mischaracterization of Him to RUN AWAY once again from His true MO within the scriptures! Way to go Jesus in you being omniscient again, praise!
Tradesecret, you said you read the Bible, but when you take the position that you are doing now, in that I mischaracterized Jesus’s brutal and disgusting modus operandi, you obviously LIED and didn’t read the Bible showing Him to be exactly what I stated below:
"Within the scriptures, Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent. Also, our Jesus was an abortionist which leaves a lot of embarrassment if we picket Family Planning Clinics, do you get our hypocrisy if we do?"
We’ll get to your LYING about reading the Bible shortly, or being totally ignorant of same, stay tuned, okay?
YOUR CONTINUOUS BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE: “For God to continue to be loving and forgiving does not mean that he cannot also be holy and just - sentencing everyone else who does not trust Jesus into Hell. In other words, the two things are not mutually exclusive. “
JESUS STATED: “But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15) Therefore to you, Jesus can bypass this command even though we are to follow it? Okay, then the least of which, our Jesus then turns into a blatant SERIAL KILLER when murdering His creation in the many ways that He has done within the scriptures. There is absolutely no logical and rational way to explain away this actual MO fact, period!!! :(
As just one example of many of Jesus' relentless murdering sprees within the Bible, as the Hebrew Yahweh God incarnate, then how do we promote Jesus to others knowing that He, within His Great Flood scenario, induced terrible abortions by killing TOTALLY INNOCENT zygotes and fetus’ within the wombs by drowning pregnant mothers? Furthermore, just think of the TOTALLY INNOCENT babies and children above the water drowning a horrible death by hopelessly treading water for hours crying out to their mothers in horror!
While these TOTALLY INNOCENT babies and children were drowning above the ocean, think of their muscles burning due to large amounts of lactic acid production. Once they finally gave up, they went under into the depths of the ocean, and held their little breaths as acidic carbon dioxide eroded their lungs until the unbearable pain forced them to inhale where there was no air for them to breathe. Where subsequently, they died a horrible and painful death. What is worse for me, is the biblical axiom that Jesus was watching them drown this painful and horrific death (Proverbs 15:3), and this is supposed to be "Loving" to your way of thinking?! Surely you jest!
Now, once again, how do we "morally" promote a true serial killer Jesus subsequent to Him drowning TOTALLY INNOCENT zygotes, fetus’, babies and children within His Great Flood in the 21st century?
TRADESECRET GOING AGAINST THE WORD OF JESUS AGAIN: “I love my wife - and I detest pedophiles.”
You are to forgive pedophiles wholeheartedly and love them as well, and others that you detest, otherwise, are you stating that you know more than Jesus in the following passages? NOT! Your Bible ignorance truly amazes me. LOL
“Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.” (Proverbs 10:12)
“And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.” (Matthew 11:25)
“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14-15)
“And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.” (Matthew 11:25)
“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14-15)
“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6: 14-15)
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:13). This cherry-picked verse is obviously what the sickening Catholic Pedophile Priests use, because there is no incentive not to bugger innocent and crying children. Get it ?
TRADESECRET GOING AGAINST THE WORD OF JESUS AGAIN: “There is no law or principle that anyone - including God has to be loving towards all things all of the time.”
WTF?! Jesus’ inspired words says you are wrong once again, as usual, whereas Jesus states to love everyone! How dare you to continually slap Jesus in the face!
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8)
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.” (Romans 13:8)
“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” (John 15:12)
“And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 22:37-39)
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.” (Romans 13:8)
“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” (John 15:12)
“And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 22:37-39)
TRADESECRET GOING AGAINST THE WORD OF JESUS AGAIN: “I also find it interesting that you continue to put human traits onto a divine person.”
Thank you in calling Jesus as God a “person” which helps me prove my point herewith. I am truly sorry to have to always confront your complete Bible ignorance! JESUS STATES THAT TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE HEBREW GODS AS WELL! Therefore, our traits as humans are equal to Jesus being God since we were created in the image of God, shown below, then my divine presence is equal to Jesus’ divine presence, therefore your position is comically moot, as usual. :( LOL
Jesus blatantly said that TRUE Christians like myself are Hebrew Gods as well: “Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? If he called them ‘gods, to whom the word of God came and Scripture cannot be set aside, what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?” (John 10:34-36)
In simpler terms for you to maybe understand, when Jesus said “if Scripture outright called human beings gods, why are you upset when I merely stated that I am God’s Son in the verse in question?” Do you want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect that we are Hebrew Gods as well? Huh?
Another direct passage telling the TRUE Christian like myself that we are Gods equal to Jesus: “Then God (Jesus) said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, IN THE IMAGE OF GOD he created him; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:26-27)
“This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, HE MADE THEM IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD” (Genesis 5:1) Therefore we are created in Jesus’ “image and likeness” of being the Hebrew God, PRAISE!
IMAGE: a mental conception held in common by members of a group and symbolic of a basic attitude and orientation.
LIKENESS: the quality or state of being alike or similar especially in appearance.
Furthermore, since Jesus states that we can totally heal others if we ask this in prayer and believe, like He does as God, then we are most certainly Gods as well, praise! Jesus stated: “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22)
On a sidetnote to biblical axioms, Jesus isn’t supposed to lie as God, which He does at times anyway, then if we’re created in Jesus’ likeness and image as God, then Jesus has a male penis, AND, he craps as well! 2+2=4. :(
TRADESECRET, QUICK: Try and find your latest prescription of “pseudo-christian spin doctoring pills,” to "TRY" and take the literal word of Jesus away to save yourself from further embarrassment, hurry, do it quickly because we need more laughter at your expense! GO, hurry!
Tradesecret, your Bible ignorance is truly astounding! Are you keeping track of all the Jesus inspired passages that you continue to piss upon? I have lost count!
YOUR CONTINUED RUNAWAY QUOTE FROM JESUS TRUE MO: “Well, what do you know, a question. I reject your first premise, since you have only asserted such things about Jesus, not proved it.”
You should be running out of excuses by now to my premise about Jesus’ true MO within the scriptures. I have blatantly proved, and without question, that our Jesus met all of the requirements shown herein relative to His true modus operandi since I have been on DEBATEART. I am not to be held responsible for your lack of not knowing these drastic things about our Jesus, understood? BUT, there is a way for me to prove these disgusting things about our Jesus, and this is in DEBATE with you!
Therefore, in closing, we’ll debate my main premise that our Jesus was truly a real SOB, the irony of which, when He exists in this manner it is an embarrassment to defend Him morally in the 21st century, and if Jesus didn’t exist, as explicitly shown more so than not in history outside of the Bible, then Christianity is moot. A real Catch-22 to say the least, huh?
I’LL SET UP THE DEBATE QUICKLY! This is because I only have about 3 days or so to show your continued biblical ignorance at your expense, because of a planed trip, okay? Don’t worry, I will make it quick for you. Remember, the membership is watching your decision in where you will continue to either RUNAWAY as usual to the topic in question in the eyes of Jesus (Proverbs 15:3), or actually engage, but, I promise in either way you will be made the continued biblical fool.
READY?!
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@BrotherDThomas
Jesus came through once again in prayer that I initiated yesterday, when He woke me up at 3am to tell me that the biblically ignorant Tradesecret was going to use the old tired out ruse of mischaracterization of Him to RUN AWAY once again from His true MO within the scriptures! Way to go Jesus in you being omniscient again, praise!
Now I'm officially impressed.
If the invitation to wild parties (at women's prayer meetings) wasn't enough, now you're being woken up at 3AM by the creator of the universe who you don't even believe exists.
You seem to be quite the socio-butterfly.
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@RoderickSpode
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RoderickSpode,
But, as I have stated before, more than likely Jesus DOES NOT EXIST, but in turn, I need Him to exist like many pseudo-christians like you do, even in a mythical form like many believe in a flat earth, where the covid-19 virus is a hoax, and so on and so forth! As just one example of me wanting Jesus to exist no matter what, is the biblical axiom that His inspired words state that there are no women in heaven, where putting up with these Sisters of Eve while on earth, WAS ENOUGH! Praise Jesus' enlightenment!
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@BrotherDThomas
RoderickSpode,But, as I have stated before, more than likely Jesus DOES NOT EXIST, but in turn, I need Him to exist like many pseudo-christians like you do, even in a mythical form like many believe in a flat earth, where the covid-19 virus is a hoax, and so on and so forth! As just one example of me wanting Jesus to exist no matter what, is the biblical axiom that His inspired words state that there are no women in heaven, where putting up with these Sisters of Eve while on earth, WAS ENOUGH! Praise Jesus' enlightenment!
You mean he most likely didn't wake you up at 3AM?
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@BrotherDThomas
“BDT - I have read your mischaracterization of Jesus before. That is your opinion. Good for you. Yet, I don't see a question in it.”
God damn it, Jesus came through once again in prayer that I initiated yesterday, when He woke me up at 3am to tell me that the biblically ignorant Tradesecret was going to use the old tired out ruse of mischaracterization of Him to RUN AWAY once again from His true MO within the scriptures! Way to go Jesus in you being omniscient again, praise!
No need to respond to drivel.
Tradesecret, you said you read the Bible, but when you take the position that you are doing now, in that I mischaracterized Jesus’s brutal and disgusting modus operandi, you obviously LIED and didn’t read the Bible showing Him to be exactly what I stated below:
I repeat you have mischaracterized Jesus - and despite your repeated assertions that it is true - does not make it so. Nor does adding attacks about my character make it so.
"Within the scriptures, Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent. Also, our Jesus was an abortionist which leaves a lot of embarrassment if we picket Family Planning Clinics, do you get our hypocrisy if we do?"
I will leave this in because this is your burden to prove and also exposes your shame -
“For God to continue to be loving and forgiving does not mean that he cannot also be holy and just - sentencing everyone else who does not trust Jesus into Hell. In other words, the two things are not mutually exclusive. “
It is a great quote - thanks for quoting me.
JESUS STATED: “But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15) Therefore to you, Jesus can bypass this command even though we are to follow it? Okay, then the least of which, our Jesus then turns into a blatant SERIAL KILLER when murdering His creation in the many ways that He has done within the scriptures. There is absolutely no logical and rational way to explain away this actual MO fact, period!!! :(
Yes, Jesus did state that - but he also explained in Luke 17:3-4 that for forgiveness to take place, that the offender needs to repent. Hence, if someone does not repent, there is no obligation to forgive. Again this is what John 3:16 says which you conveniently have omitted (what are you scared about) that those who trust in Jesus are forgiven and receive eternal life - whereas those who don't repent - go to perish in their sins. Therefore dear Brother DT - since we are to forgive in the same way as Jesus - which is to bring people to repentance - then my quote above is entirely consistent and accurate. Jesus does not bypass this command - he models it perfectly. This is perfectly logical.
As just one example of many of Jesus' relentless murdering sprees within the Bible, as the Hebrew Yahweh God incarnate, then how do we promote Jesus to others knowing that He, within His Great Flood scenario, induced terrible abortions by killing TOTALLY INNOCENT zygotes and fetus’ within the wombs by drowning pregnant mothers? Furthermore, just think of the TOTALLY INNOCENT babies and children above the water drowning a horrible death by hopelessly treading water for hours crying out to their mothers in horror!
Wow! There is so much anger and hatred within your words. Jesus never murdered anyone. In fact as I recall he was the one stopped others from murdering one particular lady when he turned to them and said - "you who is without sin, cast the first stone". At which point they all slinked away. This is not the character of someone who murders innocents. Yet if you did know your bible - which you keep saying you have read, then you would know that Adam and Eve rejected God and his good ways and as such we thrown out of the garden. The earth then became as it were a DEATH ROW prison for Adam and Eve and all their children, each and every one of them who preferred Adam rather than God. From God's perspective - and mine too, the world cannot cry out "we are all innocents here". The fact is - we are all guilty. There are NO innocents., not even the little zygotes or fetus or baby. Every human is on death row. That is the biblical picture - if you had read your bible, you would know this - yet you always seem to omit what the bible says about the state of humanity. I wonder why?
What is more is that by the time that Noah arrived on the scene - God looked down at the earth and he saw that the evil in the world had simply increased over time. Only Noah found grace in his eyes - because only Noah sought to listen to God and his ways - Genesis 7:5-6. God decided to destroy the world and everything in it. And Brother - because God made the world and everything in it - it belonged to him. As his rightful property - he could do whatever he wanted to with it. This is right and just and perfectly fair. He could have wiped them out in the beginning - but because he was super fair - he graciously allowed them time to change. But change for the better they did not. They became worse and doubled down in their evilness. (Interestingly, even in our modern culture, if we saw a group of people just get worse and worse and more evil than ever, we would expect our governments to step in and eradicate them somehow - so to suggest God should not do this is hypocritical) But more than this - it was perfectly just to wipe out the entire world - for the world of humans knew they were thumbing their noses at God - daring him to destroy them. I suspect many of them were just like you - disbelieving and skeptical - so for God to destroy them was probably even in response to their dares. I wonder how many times you have dared God to strike you down. And when he does in judgment are you going to complain and say "that is not fair, I am innocent".
While these TOTALLY INNOCENT babies and children were drowning above the ocean, think of their muscles burning due to large amounts of lactic acid production. Once they finally gave up, they went under into the depths of the ocean, and held their little breaths as acidic carbon dioxide eroded their lungs until the unbearable pain forced them to inhale where there was no air for them to breathe. Where subsequently, they died a horrible and painful death. What is worse for me, is the biblical axiom that Jesus was watching them drown this painful and horrific death (Proverbs 15:3), and this is supposed to be "Loving" to your way of thinking?! Surely you jest!
Actually, I don't know what Jesus was thinking as people drowned in the floodwaters. What does a judge think when he sentences someone to death in our legal systems? Do you think he is sitting there thinking hateful thoughts? Or do you think he might be thinking about the victims this person had killed or robbed? Or is he thinking about this poor person's family who will miss him? Perhaps all of these things might have been in the mind of Jesus. But just because people suffer horribly - does not mean Jesus is not acting lovingly. When a judge sentences someone to die - I still think he is actingy lovingly, to the community left behind, to the state he is representing, to every other potential victim of this person. And in some ways even to the person who will be executed. After all, is it loving to just let the man go on living knowing he has done such horrible things and may well do them again. In a sense he is actually being protected. Yet, you are not talking about murderers - you are talking about the babies - those you claim are innocents.
Well let me ask you this question: is it better for them to grow up in an evil house of pedophiles or to go and spend eternity with God in heaven? And the answer is obvious - but even that is not what you are getting at. You are talking about the suffering - the struggles as they die - drowning in that water - calling out to their mothers. That seems to be your greatest struggle here - you think that is more cruel than allowing them to remain in their families where they will probably be killed by others - or sold as sex slaves or cut into pieces and eaten, or go on and do this to others - living in the same cycle of evil over and over again. And you know - this might be hard to reconcile if we were comparing apples with apples - but we are not. You are comparing apples with oranges and suggesting that they are both apples. Well it is not. And the fact that you are getting upset with God because he chose to bring evil to an end on this world - speaks volumes of you - not of God. How you can sit on your chair and say - God is evil because he brought evil to an end. Judgment is always horrible. There is no such thing as a good judgment for the guilty. The wonderful part of the story - you miss - that God chose to save some people and some animals from this destruction. Even these people did not deserve to live - for the same reasons as everyone else was sentenced to death. You miss the grace because you want to prove that God is a monster. I honestly feel sorry for you.
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@Tradesecret
You should probably stop arguing with him if you have trade secrets to protect, because he will say that you're wrong no matter whatever the hell you say.
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@BrotherDThomas
“I love my wife - and I detest pedophiles.”
You are to forgive pedophiles wholeheartedly and love them as well, and others that you detest, otherwise, are you stating that you know more than Jesus in the following passages? NOT! Your Bible ignorance truly amazes me. LOL
I have already explained this above. But will do quickly again because I doubt you took the time to read it above. I only have to forgive a pedophile when he repents of his sin. Loving them is not an issue because I define love as "fulfilling the commandments of the law". Love to me is not an emotional response. It is an action and obedience to God. Therefore I will not worship another God or ask the pedophile to worship another God. I will not murder a pedaphile or commit adultery or steal from a pedaphile. I will not envy him or his property. And I will forgive him if he repents of his sin. Yet, I will never him look after my children or someone else's children. And yes, i will call him to account - and place him before the laws of the court - All of these things are love as far as I am concerned. Do I detest pedaphiles? Yes. But I am talking about the generic use of the term, not necessarily individuals. What does detesting look like? It really is describing my view of people who break God's law. And in particular against children. So I am able to detest the sin of pedaphilia - and that is consistent with the Word of God.
“Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.” (Proverbs 10:12)
“And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.” (Matthew 11:25)
“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14-15)
“For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6: 14-15)
Yes, agree with all of those verses. This is exactly the reason you attend on this site and stir up strife. You hate God and you hate all of those who follow him. It is why you have thought of the worst and most vile way of characterizing Jesus. You hate him. And you hate the bible. It must be sad that the very God you don't believe in - you hate so much. How can you be so hateful about something you pretend you don't believe in? A pretense.
The second verse - tells us to go to people who have offended us and forgive them - again with the proviso - once they have repented. Similarly with the third verse - and the fourth verse. All confirm the exact same thing. That as God has reconciled his people to himself though Jesus and by trusting in Jesus, we are to be reconciled to each other by repenting and forgiving as well. In other words, Christians are all meant to have forgiving attitudes - which implies not being resentful to those who have offended to them - and yet also go to them and seek the other to repent - so that forgiveness and therefore reconciliation can properly take place. If the other person refuses to repent - then the Christian in love - can allow love to cover the sin - yet forgiveness itself has not taken place. This is the same with God - he forgives those who repent - and those who don't repent - will at the end receive their just outcomes.
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
This cherry-picked verse is obviously what the sickening Catholic Pedophile Priests use, because there is no incentive not to bugger innocent and crying children. Get it ?
I am not convinced it is cherry picked - it is more misunderstood. What does it mean to call upon the Lord? I take it that it means to repent before the Lord. Repentance means - stop doing what you doing - and turn around - and start doing the right thing. If priests continue to bugger anyone - clearly not repentance because they don't stop and they don't turn around and they don't start doing the right thing.
“There is no law or principle that anyone - including God has to be loving towards all things all of the time.”
Yes, I referred to Jacob and Esau. You chose to cherry pick and omit those verses? Why? Oh yes, because you want to take things out of context and things which don't confirm your position you simply delete.
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8)
LOL! a couple of quick things here. Who is he talking to and about? What is love in the context? Firstly, he is saying to Christians, the beloved, we must love each other - like our Father in heaven who loved us so much he sent Jesus to die for us sacrificially on our behalf - we should do the same. We should love sacrificially. If we cannot do this - then we demonstrate we dont know love. This is why Christians learn how to be reconciled properly, confession, repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation. It is a process - not just one thing pulled out of context. God is love - he is also holy - and just and righteous and merciful and many more. Being love does not mean he is not just or merciful. These are not things like a tap that you turn on or turn off. It is his character.
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35)
Great quote. Totally agree. It is a sign to the world around you that you belong to me - if you love one another. Christians do love each other. Sometimes not forgiving someone because they have not repented is a sign of love. For me not to forgive a pedaphile until he repents of his sin - is showing love. He might resent me for not forgiving me - but the fact is forgiveness can only occur because we want reconciliation to take place - and this means the offence must have been dealt with. So if a pedaphile chooses not to repent - then the offence still remains - reconciliation cannot take place. And I dont have to forgive. Yes, my attitude will be one of love - this means I will continue to bring his sin up to him - and continue to tell him to stop and continue to ensure that the proper authorities are watching him and holding him to account. If I dont do these things and just forvive him - I am not loving him and especially not loving any child he further abuses.
“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.” (Romans 13:8)
I love this verse - - notice how it helps to define love - as one who fulfills the law. I love others by fulfilling the law - by obeying the laws of God - his commandments. See it is an action - not just an emotional response.
“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” (John 15:12)
“And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matthew 22:37-39)
As I have said - love is a wholly Christian concept - as defined in the agape understanding. It is to obey the commands of God - this is how we love God - and the second is like it - loving our neighbor. We love God by obeying God's commandments - and we love our neighbor by obeying God's commandments. In fact - if we don't obey God's commandments then we are hating God and hating our neighbor.
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@BrotherDThomas
“I also find it interesting that you continue to put human traits onto a divine person.”
Thank you in calling Jesus as God a “person” which helps me prove my point herewith. I am truly sorry to have to always confront your complete Bible ignorance! JESUS STATES THAT TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE HEBREW GODS AS WELL! Therefore, our traits as humans are equal to Jesus being God since we were created in the image of God, shown below, then my divine presence is equal to Jesus’ divine presence, therefore your position is comically moot, as usual. :( LOL
Sorry, old chap, Jesus never said that at all. Jesus is the 2nd person of the Trinity. The bible clearly says there is one God. Not lots of Gods. But you should not confuse yourself with apples and oranges. There is the apple if you like, that there is one God. On the other hand, there is the orange of gods or other gods, such as baal or dagon or satan being the god of this world. There is one creator and true God - and then there are all others things which want to be god or things we want to be gods as such. Not that calling these latter things make them God in the sense of the One True God , but that humans put themselves into that position as the lord of their own lives. This was the problem in the garden of eden and it remains today. Adam wanted to be God - he wanted to be like God. He could not create the world obviously, but he wanted to decide for himself what is right and what is wrong. That is what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is all about. He knew it wrong to eat from that tree. How could he know it was wrong unless he already knew the difference between right and wrong? The point is - he did not like that rule. He wanted to eat from the tree and he did not want to think that his decision was wrong. It is the same for us today. We dont like being told what is right and what is wrong by God. We want to decide for ourselves. This is why some of us study the bible to prove it wrong - to make it lose credibility in our eyes - because we in our own eyes have the ability to prove God and his words wrong. Duh!
Being made in the image of God does not mean that God has a human shape. Nor does it mean that humans have a god shape. It certainly does not mean that we are equal to God. It means simply that God made humanity and placed him as vice regents / stewards over the earth and the rest of creation. We are to represent God to the earth and likewise we to represent the earth to God. Clearly it placed him below God - but above the earth.
Jesus blatantly said that TRUE Christians like myself are Hebrew Gods as well: “Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? If he called them ‘gods, to whom the word of God came and Scripture cannot be set aside, what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?” (John 10:34-36)
I am always amused by the usage of this verse to support the notion that we are gods just like the One and True God. Yet Jesus was talking pretty much to persons as yourself - who denied that God could be person. The religious leaders in Jesus time had no concept of God being a person - and were offended that he called himself the Son of God. Mind you they were upset he called himself the Son of Man as well. Here Jesus says it is legitimate to call oneself a god - and to be god's son - so really the Jewish leaders were simply barking up the wrong tree. Yet this is not at all drawing the conclusion that Jesus is saying you are all Gods in the sense of the one True God. He is not saying that everyone can do miracles or that everyone can do what God does or that we can all assume the mantle and authority of God. That simply is a step that Jesus never talks about and is absurdly in contradiction to the rest of Scripture.
In simpler terms for you to maybe understand, when Jesus said “if Scripture outright called human beings gods, why are you upset when I merely stated that I am God’s Son in the verse in question?” Do you want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect that we are Hebrew Gods as well? Huh?
Answered above.
Another direct passage telling the TRUE Christian like myself that we are Gods equal to Jesus: “Then God (Jesus) said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, IN THE IMAGE OF GOD he created him; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:26-27)
Answered above - again I dont deny that humans are made in the image of God. I deny that we should put human traits on God - and that is something you have not even addressed. All you continue to repeat is that humans are made in the image of God. But you don't explain what that means. You sort of suggest it means something but it is not clear exactly what.
“This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, HE MADE THEM IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD” (Genesis 5:1) Therefore we are created in Jesus’ “image and likeness” of being the Hebrew God, PRAISE!
Furthermore, since Jesus states that we can totally heal others if we ask this in prayer and believe, like He does as God, then we are most certainly Gods as well, praise! Jesus stated: “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22)
No Jesus does not say that. Read the whole verse- and in context - "in accordance with his Will". Besides it is always God who heals - even if we prayed - and especially since we do pray - we are asking GOD to heal the person - we are not healing anyone. The very notion of prayer is dependence on GOD because we cant do it ourselves.
On a sidetnote to biblical axioms, Jesus isn’t supposed to lie as God, which He does at times anyway, then if we’re created in Jesus’ likeness and image as God, then Jesus has a male penis, AND, he craps as well! 2+2=4. :(
Jesus probably did have male penis. I wonder what a female one looks like? Is there such a thing as female penis?
Yet being made in the likeness and image of God does not mean that we take on his shape. In fact the Bible says God is a spirit. And he does not have hands and arms like us- or a body like us. The Bible uses lots of metaphors referring to God - but being made in the image of God - I have explained above.
So far - you have come up with nothing new. Boring. Humanity is made in the image and likeness of God - and yet you still try and make it the other way around. You still try and look at man and say that is what God is like. That is not what the image means? If you had read your bible -you would have known this - God is a spirit. God is invisible.
Wow! your brain is warped.
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@Intelligence_06
Yeah I know - but I am bored - and he is so easy to bait.