Is it Racist to Not Date a Particular Race?

Author: Stronn

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#61
FourTrouble
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@Stronn
If you prefer to hire white employees over blacks, it's racist. So too if you prefer to date whites over blacks.

Yes, some people are "unintentionally" attracted to physical features that they associate with a specific race. But that's usually a cultural artifact, one you can change through increased exposure. As with foods, you can expand your palate to include items that initially induced a gag reflex. If you're young and a committed anti-racist, porn might be useful in this respect.

But more importantly, physical features shouldn't be the only or main factor you take into account when dating. Find someone whose personality you enjoy. And the physical attraction will usually follow, if you allow it.
#62
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Interracial dating is one of the strongest anti-racist actions available to us. Much stronger than, say, diversity trainings.
#63
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@Athias
Here is you - to summarize - trying to justify a broad brush by quoting outliers; furthermore - specifically - the case of escort - the DIFFERENCE is the case of the contract - which is that they have the ability to refuse anyone BECAUSE the service is talking about the agency of the women, such a thing IS NOT the case of workers - as the difference is one's autonomy and one's doing dishes, or making cakes, or selling clothes. Their is an ESSENTIAL DIFFERENCE.

The same is the case of ROMANTIC and SEXUAL relations - I have ENTIRELY NON_SEXUAL romantic relationships. You are entirely conflating the two - but romantic feelings are feelings of pleasure from experiencing another mental company - the same is not necessarily the same for SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPs, while the two CAN intertwine, they are not ALWAYS so - see: Asexual people who have romantic relationships. 

While you are right that they do not need to be be 1 to 1 comparisons - the THING you are comparing MUST have the same consequences for both sides of the analogy. You are comparing a hand shake to a romantic relationship, the two ENG GOALS of the social interaction are VASTLY different, thereby meaning that the two DO NOT equate. Finally, the entire "majority versus all" is negligible, as the amount of people NOT in this specific majority ARE EXTREMELY SMALL.

Not to mention that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, as a MAJORITY of wealthy and RICH people still do have to work in order to maintain their wealth and therefore their lives. Also... people who steal ARE working, illegally? Yeah - does that mean that they aren't working? No - of course not. You've also just agreed to some points - like denying someone on the aspect of race is racist.

Finally - no - it doesn't mean FIRING people - it means that whenever looking for new workers you don't have a BIAS against certain people. Furthermore, the case is because they were discriminated, but the difficulty of an action does not mean that it should not be done. Which matters more, the ease of doing something for companies, or the case of people unable to find work because they are being DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, for something they have NO CONTROL over. 
#64
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@FourTrouble
It sounds tiring for people  to be 'that inclusive.
People have aesthetic preferences.

Straight and Crooked teeth for example, aren't a deal breaker for me, I'd rather date a kind person with crooked teeth, than a mean person with straight teeth.
Might be shallow of me, but I don't mind discrimination of degrees myself.
Maybe someday skin color will be more like hair color for people's preferences of it, but there'll still be preferences.
#65
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@FourTrouble
Denying someone employment based on their race (excluding acting opportunities where the role requires a certain racial build on the actor's face and body) is objectively racist because employment is a direct career blocking thing, they can't climb up in society fairly if they can't gain employment as easily as other races.

Denying someone a date or monogamous relationship with you alone is, in impact, not racist if you understand what systemic racism actually is and how individuals end up perpetuating it. It's not up to you force yourself to enjoy a type you're not into my sexually and it's actually akin to asking a homosexual to be into the opposite gender if you demand that one need date and engage in sexual encounters with a race they don't want to.
#66
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@Theweakeredge
Athias is actually correct in this thread.
#67
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@Lemming
In other words, you don't mind racism. The problem with this view is that it causes a lot of harm to a lot of people.
#68
FourTrouble
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@RationalMadman
I never said this was systemic racism. This is racism that operates through individuals.
#69
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@FourTrouble
Not really, unless it's sexism to be non-bi-non-pan-sexual (hetero, homo or asexual mainly).
#70
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@FourTrouble
Is it transphobic to be non-pan?
#71
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This is also distinguishable from sexual orientation. We're talking about "race," something that's entirely 100% a social fact. Sexual orientation is considered an immutable characteristic, fundamental to our nature. Aesthetic preferences are culturally relative and mutable.
#72
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@FourTrouble
No it's not entirely distinguishable. There are males with personalities that are great, doesn't mean you have any right to coerce a lesbian to be open to dating him in order to prove she's openminded to males. Do you not see the resemblance?

There are actually biases and prejudices we actively encourage people to have when dating (even legally) agism, specisism and ablism are three of the main ones.
#73
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@RationalMadman
You can say that - but someone simply saying "Athias is correct" or "-insert name- is correct" without anything else fails to convince me of anything.
#74
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@Theweakeredge
how is denying to date a particular race less racist than denying to date a particular gender (or sex, really, since rarely is one trans-inclusive in their sexuality if they aren't pansexual) is sexist?
#75
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@RationalMadman
Because GENDER and RACE are not equivalent. It is a false comparison
#76
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@Theweakeredge
To you and your taste in who you date, I could say that's true based on how passionately you assert that. For others it's not as if race isn't a factor in their taste.

This isn't about white supremacy alone, many Indian, Chinese, African, South American and such families and communities 'keep it in the race' even though they've all had exposure to other races by now. 

Equally, what about people who 'mix with other races' and never date their own. There are black-and-white mixes where a partner exclusively dates and fucks only that other race.
#77
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@RationalMadman
RACE and GENDER don't equate PERIOD - not identification, not the psychological research behind attraction - the two do not equate AT ALL - being HOMOSEXUAL is not the same thing as being attracted to WHITE GUYS - there is a difference. 
#78
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@Theweakeredge
When you say 'equate' do you mean literally? That's obviously true.

There are many things people have tastes, fetishes and kinks regarding, race can indeed be one of them.
#79
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@Theweakeredge
being HOMOSEXUAL is not the same thing as being attracted to WHITE GUYS 
Of course, however it is the same level of subjective and involuntary urge.
#80
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@FourTrouble
Interracial dating is one of the strongest anti-racist actions available to us. 
Is this not (according to you) racist to one's own race if one exclusively aims for this and engages in this?

I ask based on your definition of racism in dating. 

Of course I know it's not racist, I am asking to understand what precisely your case is.
#81
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@RationalMadman
There have been no studies that can VERIFY that someone has an involuntary attraction based on skin tone - in contrast - you see plenty based on gender and the like. You see the difference is that the level of "urge" is an ordinary attractor - for example - I prefer vanilla ice cream to strawberry ice cream. There you can have a culture been brought up in - but that can be race inclusive! In the case of homosexuals - one is not sexually attracted at all to the opposite gender - and this is NEUROLOGICAL - not PHYSICAL - as gender is referring to the societal and neurological make-up of gender. So no -the two do not equate.
#82
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@Theweakeredge
There have been plenty.
Skin tone is only one aspect of race. The difference between a chinese person's eyes and nose vs a caucasians vs a black person's vs an Indians vs a Latinos vs  jew/hebrews so on and so forth, Arabs and Kurds too, it's all varied. Base hairstyle of each race, general temperament of those of that eace within the vicinity of one's local area (so culture and ethnicity too, not just race, religion included) are all factors that limit people's taste palette ind dating
#83
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@Theweakeredge
Height and general muscle tone and build are also factors and black people are much 'more' in this department than, for instance, Koreans and Chinese. Some prefer the latter as they want petite.
#84
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@RationalMadman
No - average genetic and physical measure is more different from black American to black American than it is from white to black American - you are buying into a STEREOTYPE. Furthermore, speaking of the average physical ability of each race it has to do with the INEQUITY IN WORK available in each race, but as we have been decreasing such inequity the rates are FALLING. As assimilation increases the difference you speak of is being reduced. However, this does not actually affect the fact that such cultural factors are not EXCLUSIVELY RACE. 
#85
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@Theweakeredge
Now you're just flat out lying about scientific facts. Firstly I said Chinese vs Blacks for that to be most significant of a difference, secondly the facial build and other factors like eye colour, ass size, hair style and many more things factor in.

You are continually hostile to me in 100% of the interactions you've had in the past couple of weeks. I have patiently replied to you only to get more rage, if I putore effort into my response. It's futile to interact with you and you are blocked.

#86
Theweakeredge
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Lying? No - YOU ARE MISRPESENTING SCIENTIFIC DATA

Now - I will leave you alone AFTER I respond to your claim - then have fun thinking that intellectual transparency is "toxic".  I don't give people any less BoP because we agree in some areas, as many people seem to think I do. 

"The possibility of such gene networks shifting their interrelationships wholesale in the course of humanity's brief foray across the globe, and being skewed in significant ways according to ''race'' is ''a bogus idea,'' said Dr. Aravinda Chakravarti, a geneticist at Case Western University in Cleveland. ''The differences that we see in skin color do not translate into widespread biological differences that are unique to groups.''

Dr. Jurgen K. Naggert, a geneticist at the Jackson Laboratory in Bar Harbor, Me., said: ''These big groups that we characterize as races are too heterogeneous to lump together in a scientific way. If you're doing a DNA study to look for markers for a particular disease, you can't use 'Caucasians' as a group. They're too diverse. No journal would accept it.''"

"In the Stanford study, over 92% of alleles were found in two or more regions, and almost half of the alleles studied were present in all seven major geographical regions. The observation that the vast majority of the alleles were shared over multiple regions, or even throughout the entire world, points to the fundamental similarity of all people around the world—an idea that has been supported by many other studies (Figure 1B).

If separate racial or ethnic groups actually existed, we would expect to find “trademark” alleles and other genetic features that are characteristic of a single group but not present in any others. However, the 2002 Stanford study found that only 7.4% of over 4000 alleles were specific to one geographical region. Furthermore, even when region-specific alleles did appear, they only occurred in about 1% of the people from that region—hardly enough to be any kind of trademark. Thus, there is no evidence that the groups we commonly call “races” have distinct, unifying genetic identities. In fact, there is ample variation within races (Figure 1B)." 


"Scientists have known for many decades that there is little correlation between “race,” used in its popular sense, and actual physical variations in the human species. In the United States, for example, the people identified as African Americans do not share a common set of physical characteristics. There is a greater range of skin colours, hair colours and textures, facial features, body sizes, and other physical traits in this category than in any other human aggregate identified as a single race."


You are simply INCORRECT regarding what you believe to be true - you are buying into a STEROTYPE. 
#87
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@FourTrouble
In other words, you don't mind racism.
Eh, that's kind of a wide statement though.
If some store refused service to people for being a ginger, I'd say on a personal level f*** that business, think I'll eat elsewhere.
If some store refused service to people for being black, I'd say on a personal level f*** that business, think I'll eat elsewhere.

But as for personal dating preferences, I don't really care if someone doesn't want to date ginger haired whites, or black people.
People have different aesthetics, and one of the reasons people date, is they're looking for someone they find pretty/handsome.

If you want to say that their color preference is limiting their ability to find wonderful people, I'd agree with you.
But I don't really care who they date.

. . .

On a practical level though, 'some people go 'on and 'on about white privilege, and how every white person is privileged, and 'every black person carries such a heavy burden for being black.

'IF, that 'was true, then it'd be logical for a person to have preferences based on race, as it is to have preferences based on class, or how well one's job pays I mean.

Not saying 'I hold that opinion.
But I do think individuals have a right to choose for themselves who they want to date.
#88
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@Theweakeredge
I am curious of something, can you find me a person who has dated someone from every race to prove they aren't racist at all?

I am curious how they prove it unless they do this, in the identical way that I would think a gay man who refuses to date women can be framed as a sexist, a white man who never dates black women can be framed as a racist, it's identical to me indeed.

I do not see the difference. What I see is that it's more taboo to admit it.
#89
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I told you I'd leave you alone after CORRECTING YOUR SCIENCE - you call me toxic and say I'm lying about facts, yet whenever I show you the actual truth of the matter - you don't even acknowledge it. As far as I can see - YOU are the one being toxic, whenever someone doesn't agree with you, and persists in that disagreement, holding your responsible for your claims - you start to get upset. Fine. I don't expect people to behave rationally, I don't always behave rationally. But if you want to call me toxic, then maybe drop the "do what I say, not as I do" thing. 

Furthermore - no - you happening to not date white or black people is not what makes somebody racists - it is SPECIFICALLY not dating someone BECAUSE they are black or white or Asian. THAT is the racist thing - if you say - "Well I'm not attracted to 'x-physical feature" fine - because those DON'T CORRELATE WITH RACE. The stereotypes that encourage this are media and geographically based. To buy in, and to treat people of those ethnicities differently because of those stereotypes IS RACIST. Everyone is racist to some degree, its a fact of human psychology.

We ought to mitigate and lessen this racism to as low as it can get, to correct our misconceptions any time we catch them, and stop buying into stereotypes because its popular
#90
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@Theweakeredge
Now that I have fully exposed the fact that you have nothing more than rhetoric and appeal to emotive TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO MAKE A POINT SEEM IMPORTANT strategy, I will push harder in the other direction.

What precisely is it that defines a racist? To me, it's if they perpetuate systemic racism through their individual actions. Actions do include words if they're in a position to influence people in a significant way with those words.

To many who propose this forum thread's topic, there is a notion that dating someone proves you 'approve'. I am sure you blatantly can see that sexist men can date women and male-loathing women at times can date men (but often can be abusive during the relationship and it tends to stem from some kind of trauma if it's not pure anger issues or narcissism).

With regards to racism, I have seen Wylted himself flexing "I have fucked black chicks" to justify his 'I can't be racist' stance. I am also certain there are people with fetishes for fucking a race they hate (it could also be done by blacks to whites, an 'envy and rage' hatefuck and short-term passionate dating type thing). This thread says dating, not lifelong marriage, so you can't say this is an uncalled for Kritik and line of questioning.

I do not see the direct correlation between dating a specific race and 'proving' you don't have underlying racism. You could date a black male/female/genderfluid as a non-black and be racist in other ways to that exact race. It doesn't necessarily need to be to that person, you could genuinely 'love' the person and certainly lust them but by no means does this correlate with direct proof you are absent of racism in and of itself unless you long-term live with them, produce offspring with them and show well past the 'dating' stage that you enjoy that race. Even then, a minority can still be racist elsewhere in their life and attitudes.

Equally, I do not see the negative correlation between (the absence of) dating a particular race and being racist. Sure, the 'trend' will exist as at least a 60/40 type thing but I am certain there are many non-racists who in no shape or form have proven they aren't racist via their dating, especially if we include all races in the measurements.