WyIted being even more off topic than usual
Debate Mafia DP1
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So the way I see it the NK is our only guaranteed "flip", because scum will always kill town. Unless we have a coroner or forensic investigator type role.
I'm just going to break these up into categories:
Basic elements of an argument:
Pie - Framework
Vader - Solvency
Lunatic - Weighing
Solvency stands out a bit from the other two in terms of being more of an "on-case" element, whereas framework and weighing discussions can come from either side. I don't think that makes much of a difference, though, as all of these are pretty fundamental and if you're talking about counterplans, solvency still matters.
Built-in parts of a debate round:
Savant - Disclosure
Owen - CrossEx
Earth - Ballot
I don't have a lot of experience with Policy or LD, so I haven't had to do it before, but Disclosure is just giving your evidence to your opponent. There is some theory regarding whether debaters should just disclose their cases full stop, though I don't know much about that and I don't think this is what's being covered here. Cross Examination is just the process of asking questions, though different types of debate call it different things. The Ballot is a given since judges have to pick someone to award the win. That last one is more of an outlier because it's also the only claimed character that comes specifically from the judge.
Types of Technical Arguments
Whiteflame - Theory
Casey - Kritiks
Wylted - Topicality
It would take a while to go through how all these work, but they're all on the same wavelength. They challenge something fundamental to the debate (the philosophical underpinnings, the rules, or how the topic is defined) and they all get very technical. Theory encompasses a broader set of arguments, but they all are trying to do the same thing.
Tactic:
Bullish - Spreading
This is really more about how you engage in debate rather than some element of it. Many of the above could be used tactically, but this is the only role that is solely a tactic. I could see putting this with CrossEx as a way to get in more arguments, but that's a stretch.
I don't know what half these words mean, I thought I was similar to weighing cause we both end in "-ing"
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@Bullish
I don't know what half these words mean, I thought I was similar to weighing cause we both end in "-ing"
Weighing can be used tactically. It's not necessarily something that is a part of an argument, but there's a certain amount of expectation that debaters include some weighing analysis, whereas spreading is more of a tactic used in speed debating styles like Policy.
As for where to go from here, that's harder to say. Just having all these claims on the table tells us a good deal, but not what the split is, especially if scum are faking their claims. There are some outliers here based on what is generally used across all styles of debate and what is used in a subset, there are some that have specific structure that are used consistently and others that are looser. Figuring out the theme split is going to be hard without flips.
I'm getting a town read from WF this game
Let me be more detailed.
He is pretty much the only deeply analyzing the theme and giving a fair intepretation as such. Don't think he'd doing this much as scum. I also feel like he would be focusing a lot on behavior and I think his cautious leads me to his town tell.
He is pretty much the only deeply analyzing the theme and giving a fair intepretation as such. Don't think he'd doing this much as scum. I also feel like he would be focusing a lot on behavior and I think his cautious leads me to his town tell.
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@Bullish
#112 is an odd post tbh
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@ILikePie5
Vader - Solvency - StrategistSavant - Disclosure - ???Whiteflame - Theory - ???Casey - Kritiks- ???Pie - Framework - ???Bullish - Spreading - ???Earth - Ballot - ???Owen - CrossEx - ???Wylted - Topicality - ???Lunatic - Weighing - ???
These all seem legit to me, I am getting the vibe mafia probably just claimed their real characters figuring we won't guess the theme
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@Vader
Luna's role also stands out. Such a weird part of the debate that we don't see but Pie put a good alternative for themes that would make sense
I don't comprehend how mine stands out to you, when I was in high school I did Lincoln Douglas (similar to Public Affairs) they both rely heavily on weighing values, so much that its a critical point of the ballot for judges to critique.
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@Bullish
lets buddy
bet
Honestly, I feel like trying to solve the theme split is often an exercise in vanity when you don't have at least one scum flip. It's better to focus on behavior imo. Vader gives strong towny vibes. Whiteflame tilts town for me right now. I don't have any behavioral scumreads yet.
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@Lunatic
To be quite honest, my debate knowledge is very rusty so I could be wrong. But everything in the debate that's been claimed I know for sure I've heard at some point in my debate career. I know people did do weighing but it was never so significant of a thing in policy that I needed to have it own term/name. It was never a ballot point in my debates.
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@Casey_Risk
I think you're right about about behavior. I think I personally I need to start prioritizing behavior but to be
Next person to post is Gae
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@Casey_Risk
- quite honest I really only have 1 behavioral read atm
Sorry my #135 created post without me finishing
Sorry my #135 created post without me finishing
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@Barney
Shit WTF. Please delete post 137 and 138 for the integrity of the game. Thanks
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@WyIted
Next person to post is Gae*Gay
Yep, sounds like me.
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@whiteflame
Sorry that environmental factors made you that way. I support your right to get married.
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@WyIted
Sorry that environmental factors made you that way. I support your right to get married.
A little over 12 years late to be blessing my marriage, but better late than never. Thank you good sir.
Ok so how many scum do we think there are?
Three
We get votes after we die etc. to balance out the high scum number I think
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@WyIted
Shit WTF. Please delete post 137 and 138 for the integrity of the game. Thanks
Got it, whiteflame is no longer Gay, but Vader is Gae.
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@ILikePie5
Ok so how many scum do we think there are?
Mentioned this back here, but I agree with WyIted, there are likely 3 based on what I expect would be the balance Austin would want to strike. It's kind of a Holy Hand Grenade situation where two is too few (risks a very early loss for scum) and four is too much (places scum in too powerful of a position to control the vote).
I agree with WyIted,
I have to agree with whiteflame on this point.
Also I think the real divide here is things relating to the theory of debate vs rules of debate, and we should lynch earth.
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@Earth
VTL Earth
Full claim plz
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@whiteflame
there are likely 3 based on what I expect would be the balance Austin would want to strike. It's kind of a Holy Hand Grenade situation where two is too few (risks a very early loss for scum) and four is too much (places scum in too powerful of a position to control the vote).
I'm inclined to agree with this. Three scum seems like the natural balance for this particular setup. Five scum is right out.
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@WyIted
Also I think the real divide here is things relating to the theory of debate vs rules of debate, and we should lynch earth.
Interesting idea. I can see that being the split, though the problem with this kind of theme split analysis is that you have to assume that at least one member of the scum team did not fake their character claim, and that more often than not does not happen. That's the problem with theme analysis when you don't have are least one scum flip.