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@Savant
they both do. cost of living prices are ridiculously high in every state with high wage prices. The dollar buys less stuff.
How Class Warfare Fails Game Theory
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@Greyparrot
cost of living prices are ridiculously high in every state with high wage prices.
Increasing cost of production is never good for production.
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@Greyparrot
they both do
Cost of living isn't proportional to how much money poor people have, since it's affected by demand from people of all income levels.
GP's dumb idea is that increasing minimum wage just means prices will increase to pay for them. While CEOs and executives take the same ludicrous money. His solution is for the average person to just accept living on dirt.
Dopey soundbites all day long.
Cost of living isn't proportional to how much money poor people have, since it's affected by demand from people of all income levels.
It's countered linearly by the costs of supply. Increased demand for costlier supplies has a known effect.
Raising the minimum wage affects more than just the poorest workers. It creates upward pressure on wages across the spectrum (known as "wage compression"), which further increases demand as people in multiple income brackets suddenly have more spending power. This amplified demand for housing, food, and other essentials drives up costs for everyone—especially in areas where supply can’t keep up, like housing markets. So while the argument claims demand isn’t tied to poor people's incomes alone, boosting wages at the bottom affects the broader economy in ways that indirectly raise costs.
Again, high prices for living is an observable outcome in every city with high minimum wages. It's effectively a welfare tax affecting primarily those barely scraping by and on the margins of these high costs of living, which is why the rich support it. Raising the costs of living is one of the primary goals of the crony rich. And the income disparities are greatest in the cities with large minimum wages.
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@Greyparrot
cost of living prices are ridiculously high in every state with high wage prices. The dollar buys less stuff.
It can get pretty complicated. It depends upon what the competitive wages are when the minimum wage is increased. If they are low, then the effects are more noticeable. Most states pay higher than the federal minimum, so the federal minimum wage is largely a moot point. The states that pay the federal minimum have lower costs of living, yes, so the minimum wage vs cost of living varies widely across the country. So many kids are learning to monetize online content that they are finding more creative ways to earn than we had.
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@Greyparrot
It's countered linearly by the costs of supply. Increased demand for costlier supplies has a known effect.Raising the minimum wage affects more than just the poorest workers. It creates upward pressure on wages across the spectrum (known as "wage compression"), which further increases demand as people in multiple income brackets suddenly have more spending power. This amplified demand for housing, food, and other essentials drives up costs for everyone—especially in areas where supply can’t keep up, like housing markets. So while the argument claims demand isn’t tied to poor people's incomes alone, boosting wages at the bottom affects the broader economy in ways that indirectly raise costs.Again, high prices for living is an observable outcome in every city with high minimum wages. It's effectively a welfare tax affecting primarily those barely scraping by and on the margins of these high costs of living, which is why the rich support it. Raising the costs of living is one of the primary goals of the crony rich. And the income disparities are greatest in the cities with large minimum wages.
You do realise this boils down to "prices go up because people can afford things vs. people can't afford things"? Again, is your solution people should just accept living on dirt? Can afford things sounds like an improvement on can't afford things.
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@badger
no, my solution is to have a welfare system that doesn't hurt the poor.
If prices are going up because people are suddenly affording things they couldn't before, that means people are affording things they couldn't before. The poor are hurt by affording things, got ya.
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@badger
so the poor living on dirt get to live on more expensive dirt just so they can think it's not overpriced dirt. got ya.
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@Greyparrot
so the poor living on dirt get to live on more expensive dirt just so they can think it's not overpriced dirt. got ya.
You are very stupid. The prices of things the poor could not afford before have gone up because the poor now have afforded them. Are you too thick to understand that the poor have benefitted here? They have fucking bought things they couldn't afford before. That's why the prices went up.
I fucking can't with this fucking dude.
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@badger
Yeah, likewise, you are a very dumb man if you can't imagine a better welfare system for the poor that doesn't amount to a shell game where the rich win in the end.
Paying people more and letting the poorest afford more is actually the elite rich winning!!! OMG!!!!!
There is no hope!
There is no hope!
Just baffling.
It's a classic shell game. When the cost of living rises due to wage hikes, the rich producers—whether they’re large corporations or wealthy investors—stand to gain disproportionately. They will pass the increased costs down to consumers through higher prices, and because they hold the power in the marketplace, they will maintain their margins while inflating the cost of living. Meanwhile, the workers who the minimum wage hikes are supposed to help end up in the same place, with their purchasing power eroded by rising price. Overpriced dirt.
The real kicker is that the wealth generated by this process often doesn't stay in the local economy. Large corporations and wealthy individuals are fluid and have the ability to export that capital out of state, or even out of the country, where it will be invested in places with either lower costs or where the value of money is greater. This means the local economy gets stripped of wealth, while those at the top keep reaping the benefits of inflated prices and exported profits. It's how urban decay has happened in every crony city in Ameirca, creating vast areas of slums and forgotten people.
And while all this is going on, the working class gets stuck footing the bill. They're stuck with the higher prices for the same basic stuff, but hey will never see the same kind of benefit that the wealthy do from the increased prices. To add insult to injury, it's a wealth transfer from the bottom to the top, disguised as a well-intentioned effort to lift the poor out of poverty, when in reality, it often keeps them in the same place, or worse. The minimum wage cities speak for themselves, just take a drive through the slums and look at the prices everywhere.
There's ways to provide relief and welfare for the poorest, but this surely isn't it. If the rich support it, you know it's a bad idea.
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@Greyparrot
no, my solution is to have a welfare system that doesn't hurt the poor.
Yeah, like giving every poor person 300$ monthly income. Its not too much to hurt economy, but its enough to improve their life.
Here’s an interesting timeline on the poverty rate:
“Poverty rate trends
1950s: The poverty rate was around 22%
1964: The poverty rate was 19%
1973: The poverty rate was 11.1%, a low point
1983, 1993, 2011: The poverty rate rose to nearly 15% three times
2019: The poverty rate was 10.5%, an all-time low
2020: The poverty rate rose to 11.5% due to the pandemic
2021: The poverty rate declined to 7.8% due to federal programs like unemployment insurance and stimulus payments
2022: The poverty rate rose to 12.4% as many of those programs expired
2023: The poverty rate rose to 12.9%
Factors affecting poverty
The poverty rate has been affected by economic growth, recessions, and government programs. The cost of living and inflation have also contributed to poverty.”
One of the things I find interesting is that the poverty rate was actually quite high in the 1950’s, and that is when the US had the corner of the market on manufacturing after the rest of the industrialized world had been ravaged by WWII.
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@Greyparrot
There's ways to provide relief and welfare for the poorest, but this surely isn't it. If the rich support it, you know it's a bad idea.
So how? Where's the solution here that the poor aren't dirt poor?
Here's one, calculate the minimum wage in an area based on the cost of living, a quarterly calculation. If the price of living goes up, your salary goes up. The aim here is to pull money back into the lower classes. Explain to me how increasing wages isn't the only way to do that.
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@badger
Direct charity will always be the least harmful to the poor.
Like BK suggested.
Dumb as fuck. Let's let the rich have their way and charitable people will help the poor. Otherwise the rich win!
Wait a second...
Wait a second...
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@badger
who said you couldn't steal from the rich and then give it to the poor? That's charity too.
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@Greyparrot
You are one brainwashed fucking moron dude. Just have a read back here please.
What is your fucking life?
Your dumb shell game amounts to:
The rich actually want to be forced to pay a higher wage.
This is somehow exactly what they wanted all along and will somehow make the poor poorer.
The rich actually want to be forced to pay a higher wage.
This is somehow exactly what they wanted all along and will somehow make the poor poorer.
Only solution is to do nothing. Let the rich have their way. Stay poor.
But wait... oh no, what if the rich just increase wages themselves then? Does that mean we cannot avoid this terrible trap?
Oh no they're paying me more money! This is the disastrous situation GP warned me about! Somehow I'm ruined!
Who fucking conned this dude into believing that enforcing higher salaries is a trap by rich people? How did you do that?
I mean he's fucking retarded, but still. That's impressive.
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@Savant
they both doCost of living isn't proportional to how much money poor people have, since it's affected by demand from people of all income levels.
When people have more money to spend demand goes up. Basic economics.
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@Shila
When people have more money to spend demand goes up.
Raising the minimum wage takes spending money from employers. That mitigates the effect on demand.
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@Greyparrot
Your dumb shell game amounts to:The rich actually want to be forced to pay a higher wage.This is somehow exactly what they wanted all along and will somehow make the poor poorer.Only solution is to do nothing. Let the rich have their way. Stay poor.But wait... oh no, what if the rich just increase wages themselves then? Does that mean we cannot avoid this terrible trap?Oh no they're paying me more money! This is the disastrous situation GP warned me about! Somehow I'm ruined!Who fucking conned this dude into believing that enforcing higher salaries is a trap by rich people? How did you do that?
Where's my follow up here? Why are you back making retarded posts in the rest of the forum? This is a time for reflection.
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@Savant
The inflated prices that the poor have to pay for basic needs is what mitigates the demand.
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@badger
who said you couldn't steal from the rich and then give it to the poor? That's charity too.