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@Greyparrot
Lean town: Luna, WF, Casey.Slight town: Pie, Savant.Slight scum: Wylted.Lean scum: Austin
Can you explain any of your reads?
Gunplay Mafia DP1
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Whiteflame's reads post leans town for me. Thought process seems genuine.
Savant tilts town for me. The way he's been analyzing this game feels like it comes from a town perspective, in particular the way he's been referring to past games and the lessons we can learn from them.
Wylted hasn't yet said or done enough for me to get a solid read on him. Pie is also null, but that's mainly because I have a hard time reading him even when he's given me lots to work with.
Tough for me to say regarding Luna, he's a pretty good player and I haven't been able to pick out any clear scumtells from the games I've played/modded where he's been scum. Him agreeing with my read on GP makes me want to townread him on some level, but being fair, I think I have to stick him in null for now. I haven't seen anything to indicate he's scum yet, but nothing makes him clearly towny to me either. He has been more active and engaged this DP than in DP1 of the last game, which is a good sign at least.
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@AustinL0926
I don't like Casey's shade and vote. It's basically calling Role Cop a scummy role without considering the context of GP's claim, and I really struggle to see how a townie's first reaction is to claim that GP didn't describe his paraphrasing correctly when at best, if true, is not really relevant to alignment. Also, Casey pushing GP for alleged anti-town behavior in the form of wanting to use his role by not voting incorrectly feels like they're just taking the path of least resistance (i.e. not really thinking about GP's alignment, more just blindly pushing him).
Coming back to this -- I don't see how the context of GP's claim actually changes anything. He instaclaimed as always, and this game he claimed a scummy role. That doesn't necessarily mean he's scum, but it's something to take into consideration. I don't think the paraphrase thing is irrelevant, either. I could buy that he misspoke, if his explanation weren't that he had ChatGPT paraphrase, then paraphrased that himself. Do you believe that he really did that? If so, why? If not, what's the town reason for him to lie about that?
Not wanting to vote at all could just be GP being lazytown, sure, but it's certainly not a point in his favor. I feel like you're misreading my read on GP as being forced rather than what it actually is -- death by a thousand cuts. Sometimes townies will, intentionally or unintentionally, end up doing scummy things, but when there's multiple points against someone's favor, that's when you have to start asking questions. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
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@Casey_Risk
This is all just WIFOM...Claiming a scummy role and relying on WIFOM to get away with it is not that uncommon in this game
This reasoning is also WIFOM. It's assuming scum would bet on WIFOM thinking and therefore be willing to claim a scummy role. That's just another iteration of WIFOM.
That said, this is not a typical case and I don't think Grey put that much thought into his claim. He claims first thing every game, and it's not strategic. Which is why I'm inclined to take his scummy role at face value.
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@Savant
Slight town lean on Luna for me, he's being way more proactive than last time.
Grain of salt with my Luna read. I haven't seen town Luna in a while my reads could be rusty tbh. I know I've played a lot with him but I'm getting older.
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@Savant
This reasoning is also WIFOM. It's assuming scum would bet on WIFOM thinking and therefore be willing to claim a scummy role. That's just another iteration of WIFOM.
I think you're slightly misunderstanding my point. I'm just pointing out that Austin's basis for believing in GP's claim is weak.
That said, this is not a typical case and I don't think Grey put that much thought into his claim. He claims first thing every game, and it's not strategic. Which is why I'm inclined to take his scummy role at face value.
Agreed, I think taking the claim at face value is the most sensible approach, and at face value, it's a scummy claim.
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@Casey_Risk
In regards to my own role, I will say that Savant is actually mostly correct here. My role and GP's are not incompatible, but it is another factor that makes me raise an eyebrow. Suffice it to say that I am hesitant to fullclaim right now. I will if more players want me to, but for now I'll leave it at that.
I think you should claim. You’re hinting at an investigative role, which mafia are now aware of, so might as well just claim now
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@Vader
Right now my strongest reads are only town reads atm. No one is has a scum read but I do have a FoS on Luna atm for his some of his reads. I think him being eager to pair me and GP as a scum team comes off sus and a bit too jumpy.
I agree that jumping to link you and GP is a bit premature. However, there is some OMGUS here from your side as well
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@Savant
Not really imo. Townies suspect people of being in teams together all the time. GP and Austin people assumed WF and I were teamed up the last game because we agreed on reads. All scum Luna had to do was hang back and not contribute much, and that's what I'd expect if he was scum this game.
If he’s scum again, he’s not going to play like how he did last game. Luna is experienced enough to not do that. It’s WIFOM, but it’s still likely because a change is style would make him seem more townie.
Slight town lean on Luna for me, he's being way more proactive than last time.
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@Vader
Normally when I'm scum I tend to not blindly buddy, maybe in past games but recently not as much.
Now that I called it out you probably won't do it, but i'll still be highly suspicious if GP ends up scum.
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@Vader
As for Grey, I don't understand why we are all so eager to jump to a lynch right now. The DP just started.
Literally only casey voted him.
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@whiteflame
but there are just a lot of niggling doubts
reported
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@Casey_Risk
This is all just WIFOM. Yeah, maybe scum GP would have known better than to claim something scummy. Or maybe he'd be banking on the fact that he could convince everyone to believe that he wouldn't do that. Maybe you think the former is more likely, fine, but I feel like a player as experienced as you should not be so strongly swayed by such an argument. Claiming a scummy role and relying on WIFOM to get away with it is not that uncommon in this game, and I'll admit that I don't have much experience playing with GP, but I don't understand why you don't believe he would do that.And maybe Mharman would be more likely to include the variant of Role Cop that doesn't reveal the target's alignment if he were including it as a town role -- but that's if he were including it as a town role. I agree that GP likely is actually a Role Cop regardless of his affiliation, but we don't actually know for certain whether he's town or not yet, and I don't see any real reason to townread him in your post that isn't just a WIFOM argument. Also, the variant that doesn't reveal alignment is not "non-standard", at least not if we're going by sites like MafiaScum or MafiaUniverse.
I think we’re all forgetting a couple of crucial parts of the analysis into whether GP would claim Rolecop as scum: his partner + fake claim.
Assuming Mharman gave a fake claim, Rolecop is a very weak claim. I would also expect scum to use it on GP because his meta is to claim first. That’s one part.
Now let’s think of the other part: his partner. Would his partner let him claim Rolecop as scum? I don’t think so. When I was GP’s partner in a game, I had to create a fake claim for him to claim immediately. I would expect a scum partner to do the same. There are a couple of people I wouldn’t expect like Wylted because he’s a yolo person anyways.
Anyways, I think your role Casey if it does make it less likely GP has Rolecop would be incriminating.
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@Casey_Risk
VTL Casey for full claim
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@whiteflame
While we agree on GP, I'm not really sure where the sus is coming from against Vader, and maybe that has more to do with just not seeing his full thought process on Vader since I haven't really seen the kind of buddying Luna is claiming he sees. The response to Austin comes off as authentic, but I can't say anything more than that. Just null to me.
The last game I played with supa as scum I remember he hard buddied me when I was under perssure, and at worst, he just doesn't pressure his scum buddy like Joebob in years mafia. There are other examples I'd have to dig up in order to really prove my point. That said, once he gets called out for it he probably will be hyper aware of it. So my sus will really only come into play if GP turns scum.
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@Lunatic
The last game I played with supa as scum I remember he hard buddied me when I was under perssure, and at worst, he just doesn't pressure his scum buddy like Joebob in years mafia. There are other examples I'd have to dig up in order to really prove my point. That said, once he gets called out for it he probably will be hyper aware of it. So my sus will really only come into play if GP turns scum.
He also cracks under pressure like he did in your game. Lots of inaccuracies/allusion to inside knowledge
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@ILikePie5
In regards to my own role, I will say that Savant is actually mostly correct here. My role and GP's are not incompatible, but it is another factor that makes me raise an eyebrow. Suffice it to say that I am hesitant to fullclaim right now. I will if more players want me to, but for now I'll leave it at that.I think you should claim. You’re hinting at an investigative role, which mafia are now aware of, so might as well just claim now
I get the argument that the information may be useful in deciding GP's lynch, though I think Casey would have just come out with it if they felt this would be decisive. I got the same hint, though I don't agree that it's just better to get the claim as a result. It's a claim I'd still be willing to get if we don't have anyone else we're sussing by the end of the DP, but I'm not going to pursue it right now.
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@Lunatic
but there are just a lot of niggling doubtsreported
Fair. I deserve it.
The last game I played with supa as scum I remember he hard buddied me when I was under perssure, and at worst, he just doesn't pressure his scum buddy like Joebob in years mafia. There are other examples I'd have to dig up in order to really prove my point. That said, once he gets called out for it he probably will be hyper aware of it. So my sus will really only come into play if GP turns scum.
Alright. I've got other reasons to townread Vader atm, but I get the reasoning.
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@ILikePie5
Right now my strongest reads are only town reads atm. No one is has a scum read but I do have a FoS on Luna atm for his some of his reads. I think him being eager to pair me and GP as a scum team comes off sus and a bit too jumpy.I agree that jumping to link you and GP is a bit premature. However, there is some OMGUS here from your side as well
Yeah I know it's pretty OMGUS but I think I would've reacted the same if it was someone else too
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@ILikePie5
He also cracks under pressure like he did in your game
Ok this is going to be defensive but I also got RB'd in NP1 and Austin got ressurected. I was screwed from there but to a certain extent I see your point
Honestly I think Pie's deduction and reasoning is valid and he seems like he's thinking from the perspective of a townie. He's being pretty consistent with his reads and putting thought into votes versus rushing to vote. Town play from him from what I've seen so far so I'm comfy throwing him into my lean town
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@ILikePie5
Yeah, for sure, you would never allow me to claim role cop.
I just have cards, sometimes the cards are good, sometimes not so good. Wouldn't be the first time I got lynched DP1.
But I'm probably the most honest Mafia player ever, good or bad.
I have an FoS on Austin. I just find it hard for him to put me fully in the town pile. Even coming from me I am pretty weary in putting an SoP is solid town claims. The only reason I was skeptical of Pie's SOP last game cuz I thought having an PGO and a Bookie with 2 killing rules was mechanically off but I still had a lean town on him but my top town read.
Even in the last game, he's trying was lean town on Pie when Pie did more behaviorally than I personally think I have
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@Greyparrot
Look at you PM again and paraphrase it without looking at what you wrote the first time
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@ILikePie5
I am Tag System! I mark targets. Therefore, I am a 1x Rolecop. I can pm the mod and check somebody's role, but not affiliation.
I win with the town.
I was hoping to use it to catch somebody lying about their role, but not a lot of people claimed. I guess I could check Vader?
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@Vader
I have an FoS on Austin. I just find it hard for him to put me fully in the town pile.
You're sussing Austin for thinking you are town? Explain how that works.
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@Lunatic
@Greyparrot
@Vader
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Someone pointed out that if there's a gravedigger, there's probably a ninja. If there is, role cop could be used to find them.
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@Savant
Someone pointed out that if there's a gravedigger, there's probably a ninja. If there is, role cop could be used to find them.
That was me, and you make a good point. Right now both GP and Casey are behaviorally different. Greyparrot is Greyparrot, but Casey is definitely different. I need more before I can be convinced on GP
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@Savant
Someone pointed out that if there's a gravedigger, there's probably a ninja. If there is, role cop could be used to find them.
Assuming mafia would even let him live.
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@ILikePie5
I need more before I can be convinced on GP
It's GP, I don't really know what more you can expect to get out of him.