Inheritance Cycle Mafia DP2

Author: ILikePie5

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#151
WyIted
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@whiteflame
I've got my misgivings on Mharman, though I haven't seen anything from him this DP that's setting me off. What makes you sus him and why do you think he and I are a team?
I am not doing the team analysis thing. Mharman early in the DP indicated to lunatic that I obviously scum read him because I vanillaized him. This indicates inside information because he should bot know I am town. I will link the post in a minute. I think it's a genuine scum slip. 
#152
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I have never said I was giving the full story on my role. I still haven't said I have given the full story. Not sure where that is coming from. I mentioned a negative utility associated with it and I was happy to let people think that was the only part of the role. 
#153
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@whiteflame
Message to Lunatic


You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.

It's a slip. He knows I am town and he was buddying me for some apparent reason. 
#154
WyIted
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I told you guys he was scum on page 2, but do what you will. 
#155
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@WyIted
I am not doing the team analysis thing. Mharman early in the DP indicated to lunatic that I obviously scum read him because I vanillaized him. This indicates inside information because he should bot know I am town. I will link the post in a minute. I think it's a genuine scum slip. 
I recall you mentioning that. It might just have been an assumption, but I don't recall seeing him respond to that.

I have never said I was giving the full story on my role. I still haven't said I have given the full story. Not sure where that is coming from. I mentioned a negative utility associated with it and I was happy to let people think that was the only part of the role. 
I understand why you avoided giving the full story on your role back in DP1, particularly given what you've told us this DP. What I don't get is why you appear to be suggesting that you're still withholding information. Given ADOL's intention and Earth's role, you're not far off from being put at L-1, and I've made clear that my decision on the matter is coming tomorrow. Why are you being coy about this?
#156
whiteflame
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Points taken on Mharman. I got the impression that he saw you as pretty solid town coming off of DP1, so that might explain why he was so confident in his read, but I'd like to see him respond to that. In the meantime, I think you need to lay any cards out on the table you've got left in your hand if you want to give yourself the best chance of surviving this DP. I don't know what you think you stand to gain by not giving "the full story" on your role, but it's not going to matter if you're lynched.
#157
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I didn't say I wasn't giving the full story.  I said I might not be.  If I have anything else to share I will let you know
#158
whiteflame
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@WyIted
Alright then.
#159
whiteflame
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@Earth
@Mharman
@Cerulean
Apparently nothing moved overnight. We've still got time, but I'd like to stimulate some discussion among the people who don't currently have a vote down (ADOL's made his position clear, so I'm leaving him aside along with Luna and Austin who both have posted votes). I've also had plenty of back-and-forth with WyIted, so I'll leave him out of this one. I'll address this to the rest of you and hopefully we can get some meaningful discussion going today.

Earth, you're widely townread at this point given that your role has been confirmed and you've been behaviorally pretty consistently town. VTLing Casey does seem like a towntell to me as well, though I don't think we needed that. You suggested that "one or two players should out their characters," so let's dig into that. Who do you think should claim? I haven't seen a list of reads from you beyond some views that certain people (Cerulean and Luna) are likely town, so I'd like to know where you're leaning for more information since it seems like that places Mharman, Austin, me and possibly ADOL in your POE.

Cerulean, you have posted two times since VTLing me and haven't addressed how I responded. Has any of the recent discussion affected how you see WyIted or me? Those last two posts seem to focus more on Luna, so I'd like to get your broader thoughts and get a clear idea of where you're at, especially considering that it appears everyone who was sussing you last DP seems to have decided otherwise this DP.

Mharman, it's been a while since you've posted, though you indicated you were traveling yesterday so I get that. There's been a lot of back-and-forth discussion in your absence and you've been sussed by WyIted on a point that I haven't seen you respond to as of yet. I'd like to get your updated thoughts for this DP if you're able.
#160
Lunatic
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You have yet to make a town case for me. Austin has. ADOl's vote is on me and he also made a town case along with the scum case, but you....... you haven't done it. 

Why is that?

Partially out of laziness. I am much lazier than I was 8 years ago or whatever it is, and don't write out every thought I have anymore the way I used to. Part of it is not caring about mafia as much anymore, the other part is realizing no one reads have of what I write anyway so it's kind of pointless, and sometimes writing out every damn thing in my head is counter intuitive to my goal. I am considering everything you've said, and I like some of your answers. I can believe a world where you are town, and a lot of this can be explained away by you just being wylted. That part isn't winning the fight for me though so I don't see the part in verbalizing it and losing any little support I have for gained for the lynch already. And being wishy washy about my stance definitely won't help get a lynch in time. 
#161
Earth
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@whiteflame
Earth, you're widely townread at this point given that your role has been confirmed and you've been behaviorally pretty consistently town. VTLing Casey does seem like a towntell to me as well, though I don't think we needed that. You suggested that "one or two players should out their characters," so let's dig into that. Who do you think should claim? I haven't seen a list of reads from you beyond some views that certain people (Cerulean and Luna) are likely town, so I'd like to know where you're leaning for more information since it seems like that places Mharman, Austin, me and possibly ADOL in your POE.

I'm role confirmed? At any rate I don't particularly care who outs their role, but Mhar should at least before the day ends. Also, tbh, almost everyone besides Lunatic and Wylted are flying under the radar. I'm fine if Wylted is lynched today, but I want some character claims.

VTL Mhar
#162
Earth
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@Mharman
Forgot to tag.
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#163
ILikePie5
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Official Vote Count:

Wylted (2/5) - Lunatic, Austin
Whiteflame (2/5) - Cerulean, Wylted
Mharman (1/5) - Earth

#164
WyIted
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Fuck yeah

Let's do it

Unvote VTL mharman
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#165
ILikePie5
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Official Vote Count:

Wylted (2/5) - Lunatic, Austin
Mharman (2/5) - Earth, Wylted
Whiteflame (1/5) - Cerulean


#166
Cerulean
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Sorry for being so MIA yesterday. I acknowledge WF's point about the willingness to no lynch Day 1, though I'm still not particularly willing to put a full-on townread there.

Unvote

I would like at least one claim between Mharman and Austin. Them plus WF is my current POE.

Also, tbh, almost everyone besides Lunatic and Wylted are flying under the radar.
I'm a bit uneasy about how Austin has been not up to much today besides echoing support on the WyIted lynch. Why, exactly, was he mostly townread yesterday?
#167
WyIted
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Anyone voting me is gay. Btw
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#168
ILikePie5
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Official Vote Count:

Wylted (2/5) - Lunatic, Austin
Mharman (2/5) - Earth, Wylted


#169
Lunatic
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@Cerulean
Also, tbh, almost everyone besides Lunatic and Wylted are flying under the radar.
I'm a bit uneasy about how Austin has been not up to much today besides echoing support on the WyIted lynch. Why, exactly, was he mostly townread yesterday?
He put a ton of reasoning and analysis to support his view though. You seem to be staying away from the wylted situation and not commenting on it much. Any particular reason why you town read him?
#170
AustinL0926
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I'm fine with getting a claim from Mharman - I have better reasons to townread everyone else and I don't really buy he's unpaired with Wylted, the push today felt unnatural.

I would, however, like anyone pressuring Mharman to also take a hard stance on Wylted as well - either you should hard townread him for his claim (dunno how tho), or scumread him for how he used it, struggling to understand how anyone could not have a strong opinion on Wylted yet.
#171
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@WyIted
I am not doing the team analysis thing. Mharman early in the DP indicated to lunatic that I obviously scum read him because I vanillaized him. This indicates inside information because he should bot know I am town. I will link the post in a minute. I think it's a genuine scum slip. 
This reasoning in particular bothers me. I have Mharman POEd for other reasons, but that comment was towny - if he's scum and you're town, why doesn't he just straight up call you scum rather than noting how your role use could have come from town? By considering the perspective that you're town, he'd be cutting off a way to jump on an easy mislynch.

Of course, if you're scum, you might just be partnered with him, but obviously you're not claiming that.
#172
AustinL0926
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@Cerulean
Why does it bother you that I've mostly been focusing on pushing my top suspect? Looking through your posts today, your only mention of Wylted is:

I suspect it's more likely just "Lunatic is hard accusing me in a bad way, he's scum" if WyIted is Town.

That being said, it is overtly suspicious to not target the safer option, Earth. - CERULEAN

I'm currently in a state of believing WyIted, to be honest. It makes sense to have one useful investigative and one much weaker one, and I still find WyIted's behavior extremely difficult to believe as being Mafia. I find that it resembles my own wavering on a lynch when it just "feels off" at an EOD.
My worry here is that you're focusing on Wylted's day actions to the exclusion of his night actions. If you're town, it's actually a decent play for Wylted to allow a no lynch rather than a lynch, because it gives town zero info, gives scum a free NK heading into the next day, and keeps you alive as mislim bait. This actually bothers me a bit because you seem like an experienced player and statistically speaking, no lynches are worse than mislynches in the long term.

Also, if you're town, this reasoning makes sense from the knowledge of your own alignment, but obviously I can't take that on face value.

So I just want to clarify your worldview here: do you think I'm actively pushing for a mislynch by voting Wylted? Or are you just bothered by my narrow focus, and why?

#173
AustinL0926
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@Mharman
Oh also, I think WF's frustration with Wylted doesn't feel like scum-scum theatre. It feels like WF is trying to drag answers out of Wylted and Wylted is deliberately not playing along.

Actually, on second thought, it's probably town even if Wylted is town - because by this point, no one could possibly blame WF for voting Wylted with the answers he's given, so WF continuing to be pretty patient and reconsidering is town behavior.

I think my current team solves are Wylted + Cerulean or Wylted + Mharman.

Mharman, consider this me politely asking you to claim.
#174
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@Lunatic
If cerulean is town . A town read of me makes sense given I didn't put the nail in the coffin when it cost me nothing to do so
#175
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@AustinL0926
By considering the perspective that you're town, he'd be cutting off a way to jump on an easy mislynch.
He wouldn't know how easy or hard I was ro lynch at that point and I am somewhat susceptible to budding due to being a narcissist.  

What's important is the absolute faith in me as town. And strong faith is okay but it goes to the point where it feels like inside knowledge of my affiliation. 
#176
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@AustinL0926
Inluterally answered everything whiteflame has asked me. Maybe he was smarmy as a tactic for getting me to be more forth coming. However I haven't ducked anything he has asked me. 

I have tried to avoid commenting on behaviors he sees thag he thinks are scum behaviors. It's pointless for me to say i disagree they are scum behaviors. It's a philosophical argument over the likelihood something is a scum tell and it's pointless for me to interject. 

When he says "wylted choosing lunatic to vanillaize to avoid a lynch seems scummy because cerulean makes more sense here"


A statement like that isn't a question, even if he tags me in the post. All I can do is explain my reasoning to the best of my ability. Which I did.

Now people can either accept my reasoning or not. If they decide my reasoning sounds like bullshit than fair enough but somebody mentioning that behavior and thinking it's scummy, or any other behavior is none of my business. 

I will answer it fully here now that I brought it up, but only to reiterate what I have said before and maybe add to it. 

A lot of people had lunatic in their scum pool. My philosophy as cop is not to target who I think the scummiest player is, but essentially who is in a lot of scum pools or town pools and maybe shouldn't be. 

I thought lunatic would be more of an issue to clear going into a mylo or lylo situation. I may have also remembered that lunatic said I needed to know what the role I was targeting was and felt a need to target a role that hasn't been outted to also put that speculation to rest. 
..

You are also wrong that everyone should have a strong opinion on me. Me being the entire focus of this DP is silly. Find other players to move to your town and scum pools. The game has 8 players in it and you have a strong opinion on 1? Move to the other 6 and get some more strong opinions. 
#177
whiteflame
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@Earth
I'm role confirmed? At any rate I don't particularly care who outs their role, but Mhar should at least before the day ends. Also, tbh, almost everyone besides Lunatic and Wylted are flying under the radar. I'm fine if Wylted is lynched today, but I want some character claims.

VTL Mhar
For some reason, I had it in my head that we lynched someone last DP, hence I thought you were role confirmed. In any case, by the end of this DP, I'm sure you will be.

I can understand seeking a claim from Mharman, though I'd like to get some idea of why you are seeking a claim from him, specifically. I've got mixed feelings about his behavior so far, particularly from DP1.
#178
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@Cerulean
Sorry for being so MIA yesterday. I acknowledge WF's point about the willingness to no lynch Day 1, though I'm still not particularly willing to put a full-on townread there.

I would like at least one claim between Mharman and Austin. Them plus WF is my current POE.
I'd honestly be surprised if you townread me at this point, so fair enough. If it would help to do so, I'm willing to claim this DP.



#179
Mharman
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We don't know that for sure. Lunatic claimed that.
Wylted confirmed that Lunatic was his target, which was after Lunatic went after him. If Lunatic were mafia, he wouldn’t know he was targeted to begin with, since Wylted’s role doesn’t vanillize mafia.
#180
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@AustinL0926
I would, however, like anyone pressuring Mharman to also take a hard stance on Wylted as well - either you should hard townread him for his claim (dunno how tho), or scumread him for how he used it, struggling to understand how anyone could not have a strong opinion on Wylted yet.
I think everyone should at least have an opinion on WyIted at this point, given the amount of back-and-forth that has happened with him and the number of questions he has answered. I have my issues with some of his responses and his decision to keep drip-feeding information about his role definitely has not helped my perception of him. If this was anyone else, all this would be an obvious red flag and I'd have already voted. Being that it's WyIted and I kind of understand at this point how he came to these conclusions, frustrating as some of them are from my perception, it's become harder to scumread him as we've gone along. I chalk that up to having interacted with WyIted enough that I'm seeing similarities to his usual patterns, but it's hard to say whether they're town or scum at the moment.