Classic Movies Mafia DP3

Author: Casey_Risk
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#61
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@whiteflame
@Bullish
@AustinL0926
I am just going to go ahead and town confirm whiteflame right now. I don't wanna risk dying and not outing my results, but Rashomon (Never even seen or heard of this film before) but it was a Japanese film about a story that is given by multiple people that contradict each others tale (premise kind of reminds me of the last duel if you ever seen that movie). Because the search for the truth results in no truth who is actually guilty, apparently I am the odd night vanilla cop. On odd nights I can investigate a person to see if they are a vanilla townie or not. This is why I said early on that I town read the multiple vanilla claims and why I fosed pie for pushing banana just for being vanilla. I figured there would be multiple vanillas this game based on my role.

That said, I also suspect vanilla was given to scum as a fake claim and they were probably told there were multiple vanillas. Now that earth has come out, I am a little suspect of one of him or banana being scum. I probably should have investigated banana, but I didn't want to risk passing whiteflame off as town because he is very good at deception and I can't help but always scum read him, so I checked him last night after some internal debate. 

Also I soft claimed in my post to whiteflame about if men dont trust each other earth might as well be hell, apparently that is a famous line from this movie. 

But yeah, I investigated whiteflame and he is 100% vanilla townie. 

Also I don't disagree with whiteflame on his moozer sus, I am not sure the doctor claim really confirms moozer here either. My role though makes me think one of the vanillas could be lying, otherwise it would be pointless so my focus might be between banana and earth this phase. 
#62
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@Lunatic
In traditional vanilla cop, goons turn up as "vanilla" because they have no additional role. Can you confirm the mechanic
#63
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@Bullish
In traditional vanilla cop, goons turn up as "vanilla" because they have no additional role. Can you confirm the mechanic
I'll ask him but he specifically phrases it "vanilla town" so it would be kind of bastard if not and plus my role would be pointless
#64
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@AustinL0926
But if you believe Moozer is scum here, you'd have to believe he came up with the effort of creating a complex role claim, an excellent justification, just to come up with a terrible excuse for why he couldn't use it.
But he literally came up with the exact some role and made a terrible excuse for not using thay exact same role previously. See post 46


#65
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@Lunatic
I am actually shocked you are still alive I had you pegged as some sort of cop dp1. 
#66
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@WyIted
I am actually shocked you are still alive I had you pegged as some sort of cop dp1. 
Lots of theories about a noob scum team. That or scum are big braining something we don't see
#67
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@Lunatic
I think somebody actually being intimidated by Pie definitely indicates noob scum. 

I can't think of another reason to target Pie other than intimidation. Sure he was town read but so we're other people and more so. He seemed to indicate some weak role like the one he flipped when it comes to behavior. 

I hope your power is nightly and they just trust that you're being honest here. 
#68
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@WyIted
I hope your power is nightly and they just trust that you're being honest here. 
Well you aren't in my town pool and didn't earn any favors with this line lol. 

I can't think of another reason to target Pie other than intimidation. 
Another indication it could be moozer, who I think fears pie a bit if I remember
#69
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Well you aren't in my town pool and didn't earn any favors with this line lol. 
https://youtu.be/nvaE_HCMimQ?si=pcJwsNsLUqjJC8ZA
#70
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Wrong clip

https://youtu.be/eVF4kebiks4?si=uF4NZpAOtj7SCsX_
#71
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@Bullish
Casey said no to “would a goon show up as vanilla on my report”
#72
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Lunatic being Vanilla cop makes me feel better about the VT claims. WF is Town, as to be expected.
#73
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@AustinL0926
On a surface level, it looks ridiculous.
On the surface...? Seriously? I've given multiple levels on which Moozer's claim looks absolutely absurd. Don't see many responses.

But if you believe Moozer is scum here, you'd have to believe he came up with the effort of creating a complex role claim, an excellent justification,
Yep, it's unbelievable, right? That he'd come up with a claim that parrots Owen's actual role from the very last game we've played smashed together with his own Doc claim that he used in the one recent game where he's been scum, adding in a daytime use for flavor? It's a complex role, but it's roots come from two games we can directly point to, one of which included a known scum in this game and the other came from Moozer himself. On top of that, you're assuming for reasons I can't fathom that Moozer came up with this alone. There are three scum in this game, one still unknown. It's a bad claim, but it's a team effort. Also, please, "excellent justification"? It's barely decent, but my justification is literally non-existent. I don't buy that anything about his justification supports his claim.

Like, he could have claimed 1-shot, he could have claimed Night Inventor who got roleblocked, he could have claimed regular Doctor (consider that if this is a fakeclaim, then there very likely isn't an actual Doctor in the game, as he could have asked Casey for a safeclaim), and
Again, literally the fake claim he came up with last time was a 2-shot. The rest of this is all WIFOM. He could have claimed to only act during the night. Sure. I don't understand why he'd claim a day phase action either, but this is a game where Owen already shit the bed with his claim. Claiming an Inventor role allows someone else to "confirm" him, and I doubt he'd just straight up do the exact same thing he did as scum previously. 

just to come up with a terrible excuse for why he couldn't use it.

he claims in what's almost designed to look like the scummiest way possible.

It's easier for me to think that he had this role and forgot. I've seen worse.
So you acknowledge that the excuse is fucking awful, and that the manner of his claim is scummy as hell, but he's solid town to you? You just straight up buy that he forgot to use a role that could have been used to confirm him, particularly if he used it on two separate targets with only one scum left in the game? I had to pull these sentences from your post because I can't fathom how you'd think this way and still townread him.







#74
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Well, that's remarkably simple.
On odd nights I can investigate a person to see if they are a vanilla townie or not.
We haven't had an Odd night. Night 1 was skipped, so last night would have been Night 2. Meaning you shouldn't have a check.

VTL Lunatic

That's not even mentioning that every instance I've seen of Vanilla Cop has always includes goons as "Vanilla."
#75
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I'm suddenly okay with giving Moozer some time to grant the doctor ability.
#76
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@AustinL0926
Also, why are we not giving him a phase to confirm?
Because we already did. He had TWO DPS to confirm his role and didn't, whether out of an abundance of misplaced caution or because, as you put it, he just plumb forgot.

This is especially sus by whiteflame, who tore into town last game for not letting Owen, who claimed almost the exact same role, confirm himself.
And the difference is that, in that game, Owen was lynched DP1. He didn't have a chance to confirm. If Owen had survived and claimed he didn't use his role NP1, I'd have been right alongside everyone else sussing the fuck out of him for failing to confirm his role when given the chance.

He had some sketchy positioning around Owen's wagon and I don't like his overconfident push here. There's zero reason for him to be as confident as he is in Moozer being scum, and pushing it so hard, without agenda.
I've been very thorough on my reasoning for Moozer being scum. If you want to call it overconfidence, then respond to even a fraction of what I've posted because this is ridiculous. As for Owen, I made clear at the start of DP2 that he was my preferred lynch. But at this point, if you want to lynch me, you'd better have a good reason not to believe Luna's result.

I'm not claiming btw. Let scum deal with me at night.
If all of the above defense of Moozer wasn't enough, this is just the icing on the cake. No one's pushed on you for your claim yet, but you're already defensive about it and dismissive of any potential pressure you could receive. If your goal is to draw attention to you, you're doing great.
#77
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Because we already did. He had TWO DPS
That does make me wonder... If he had used it Day 1 when the Night got skipped, what would have happened? It seems very ambiguous- he specifically said "for the night" which suggests it only applies the night after use.

This is sort of the line of reasoning that caught my false claim last game- another role exists that makes it seem off.
#78
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Gah, they're both bad, but I don't see them being paired since Lunatic cleared WF who's pushing Moozer. Doesn't make sense from a strategic perspective.
#79
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@Cerulean
We haven't had an Odd night. Night 1 was skipped, so last night would have been Night 2. Meaning you shouldn't have a check.
Worth checking the OP:

Note: last night was considered to be NP1 although taking place after DP2, due to being the first completed night phase of the game.
#80
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@whiteflame
Oh, I suppose I'm the idiot here, then.

Unvote
#81
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@Cerulean
I thought you had a point there for a second so I went back and checked. Wouldn't have thought to consider it myself and didn't see it reading through the OP the first time.
#82
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Mm. I just took it as a given that it would've been Night 2, haven't seen design like that before.

Unless someone else has an odd/even Night ability, that might actually hostspew Lunatic clear.
#83
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Well, unless there's a Mafia Odd/Even Night ability, I suppose.

In that case, maybe the team really is as easy as Moozer/Austin. Austin's hard defense certainly didn't do him any favors.
#84
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Not to burst anyone's bubble but you can give scum a vanilla role and Casey always wants to disprove role affiliation = alignment affiliation in every game. Usually she gives one member of town a scummy sounding role but she could do visa versa
#85
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@whiteflame
So you acknowledge that the excuse is fucking awful, and that the manner of his claim is scummy as hell, but he's solid town to you? You just straight up buy that he forgot to use a role that could have been used to confirm him, particularly if he used it on two separate targets with only one scum left in the game? I had to pull these sentences from your post because I can't fathom how you'd think this way and still townread him.
There is two.
#86
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@Earth
There is two.
I phrased that poorly. The idea was that, if he had two people to independently confirm that they'd received an invention, that would be solid confirmation of his role. A scum Moozer could "send an invention" to a scum partner and get "confirmed" by that partner. A scum Moozer couldn't do that with two different people since there are only two scum left in the game.

#87
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And, to be clear, the above is the main reason why I don't like all the suggestions that we just let Moozer take another DP to confirm himself. He doesn't need one DP to do it because one confirmation isn't enough. He needs two, and his choice to waste DP1 and DP2 when he had the opportunity to start confirming himself is just baffling. At this point, Moozer could only firmly be confirmed in his role by DP5 (that's assuming he picks two separate targets and both independently confirm receipt), by which point we might be at 3-2 if we mislynch twice.
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#88
Casey_Risk
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Votes:

Moozer (2/5): Whiteflame, WyIted
Whiteflame (2/5): Bullish, Austin 
#89
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@AustinL0926
@iamanabanana
Well, that’s over four hours of silence despite several people (Austin, in particular) being online. Don’t like that. 

Banana, you should be involved in this discussion. At least give your thoughts on Moozer’s claim and the subsequent discussion thereof.
#90
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I don't want to be a dick and this may keep me from future games but the choice here is so obvious I might just go amaiA like banana. If a member of the scum team wants to push against the obvious lynch than fine. 

But the fact bullish Austin and lunatic do not have votes on moozer is ridiculous. If one of those people are on the scum team and I think Austin is than I can forgive you but the other two are being  retarded.