Mayday Mafia DP2

OK, so let's start with the obvious:

I'm not claiming just because you have a vote on me. If people want my claim, they can push me. I will say, I softed my claim last DP, so people are welcome to look back at post #420 (nice, didn't even plan that) and see if they can figure it out.

As for this post, I just love how this works. So your argument is that I'm engaging in WIFOM when your whole argument is exactly that. I'm responding to your WIFOM accusations. Nothing you've said so far about my behavior makes me inherently scummy, and I'm noticing that your efforts conveniently leave out large swaths of what I actually posted last DP (including an extensive set of reads and a specific person who I thought should be the lynch) to focus on the one thing I didn't do, and notably, that that one thing was what you, specifically, cut me off from doing. Like, sincerely, what did I have to do to satisfy you here? Post a vote on a non-existent wagon?

Also, what even is this final paragraph? I gave specific reasons for why I'm sussing Luna that he's just strawmanning at this point. I'm not going to address a bad faith response that doesn't even engage with my points. 

Great, more WIFOM. Because Pie and I weren't on the obvious mislynch and hadn't actively voted for someone else who definitely wasn't going to be the lynch, we're somehow sus.

Luna jumps through a lot of hoops here to try to find a way to make us look sus. I'll note that if we were on other lynch wagons, it wouldn't have changed this calculus (literally, it's exactly the same whether we're on a wagon or not), so Luna is now scumreading us regardless of whether we voted or not. At this point, nothing would have satisfied him beyond us being party to this obvious mislynch. 

As for voting Owen, I'd made myself perfectly clear when I gave out my reads and in direct response to Casey. In both cases, I said I was unwilling to vote Owen. If had gotten to the end of the DP and Owen was the only viable lynch, I would have preferred to no lynch despite what literally everyone was saying. It was a bullshit lynch on a person who at least had a confirmable role, notably something scant few people have claimed to have. You can justify it all you want on the basis that we had no other options, but don't blame me just because you made an obviously bad call.

Also, this is one of several times you've done this and I'm going to call it out directly: this is not the first game you've tried this tactic of saying how you have certain expectations of my behavior and then call me out for not doing them. Hell, this isn't the first game you've ignored large swaths of what I posted, or where you've pushed back this hard on me sussing you and then proceeded to OMGUS me, notably all behaviors I've seen you do specifically to me as scum.

No thanks.

Also, one more thought to add that I think everyone should take note of from Luna:

He called me out last DP saying that I was too readily voting Moozer and that I would be more likely to be, in his words, "passive" and "lazy." 

Now, he's calling me out for not having voted (again, said I would as soon as my class was done, and Luna specifically was responsible for ending the DP before then),

I'd strongly prefer to wait one more DP but, if you do need more information, I can provide specifics about what happened during the last NP on my end (which doesn't require me to full claim, though it further alludes to my role).

Well that sucks because I strengthened Pie. 

Captain: Are we flying? We're flying, we're flying. Tell them [ATC] what we're doing.

Copilot: Oh yeah let me get [inaudible]

Captain: Gotta get it over again. At least upside down we're flying.

Sound of compressor stalls

Sound of engine stall

Captain: Speedbrakes! Speedbrakes!

Copilot: Got it.

Terrain, terrain, pull up!

Captain: Ah. Here we go!

*End of recording*

The captain and copilot of Alaska Airlines Flight 261 were posthumously awarded the Air Line Pilots Association Gold Medal for Heroism for their efforts to save the flight. A critical flaw in the horizontal stabilizer caused the plane to spiral out of control, yet they managed to maintain altitude for over 30 minutes before becoming inverted and crashing into the sea.

I have a few thoughts on the situation. Tbh, I'm still not sure how I feel about you, but there's a particular reason I'm not scumreading you as hard as Luna is right now. That being said, I would actually like to know vaguely what you did last night, since you're willing to share. 

I'll add my vote to whiteflame. I don't see why he is any more special than the rest of us who have claimed.

Good afternoon, all. I have some thoughts from EOD, but I'm going to backread today first. I'm curious to see the justification for calling 0 scum on the wagon by Lunatic and Banana.

I was roleblocked. My action failed.

I don't see any obvious soft claim in that post. Also earth and casey have now both mentioned that your behavior was scummy by being there to vote right at the bell. Banana pointed out the scumminess with pie doing it, but it also had applied to you. Thats three different people who saw the same thing as me scummy. Just because they aren't voting you, you won't claim? Come on, even I claimed, when it was virtually only you asking me for a claim. Moozer hasn't even asked for my claim yet this phase. That's a bit stubborn. I can see not claiming dp1, I didn't because I wanted to bait a scum role, but then figured scum probably guessed my role anyway so I claimed this phase. The longer you refuse to claim while being scum read the scummier it will make you look.

I am not dismissing your wifom out of hand, I am dismissing it because it comes off as a poor excuse and I would have to believe in a million coincidences. My "wifom" actually has a well reasoned argument to it that points to suspicious behavior. For you to dismiss my wifom out of hand you have to admit that you are at fault for something. Being busy isn't a crime of course, but can you agree that it is very rare for you of all people to miss out on the end of a day phase like that? Or leave it to an hour remaining? Again my argument is complimenting you, because even if you had I know you would have been prepared enough to start setting up your lynch target way in advance. Moozer wasn't even a viable option for a lynch when you were suggesting it, and had little to no pressure. You were going to leave the day phase knowing you were busy to an hour remaining with no plan in place, just to lecture those who did vote, so a no lynch wouldn't happen. You don't see how that comes accross as scummy, or how you being there to vote immediately after the phase ends seems super convienent? And that you and pie (both the most active posters) both somehow missed the oppertunity to place a final vote, and then both convienently voted the exact same answer with 2 scum being on the wagon... There is no way your telling me these million coincidences aren't scummy, and that they happen to be just coincidences. 

The alternative to me voting owen was a no lynch, which everyone freaks out about is the worst thing town can do dp1, cerulean went into major analysis of why last phase, austin made a huge point about it in the endgame, and its something in general people agree is not a good thing. Imagine the one time I did advocate for a no lynch recently was in the last game. And I was scum. Now I participate in a lynch with dwindling time and you are using that against me? Sorry for not thinking that is the strongest argument. Especially when you yourself, one of the most active posters, somehow misses the opportunity to set up a better lynch target but is there immediately after the lynch takes place to vote on austins quiz and immediately close the thread. Like for you to cast a stone at me when I was openly not even scum reading own, when you had every oppertunity for 3 days to establish who you thought could be a better lynch, is beyond hypocritical.

This is probably the most hypocritical part of your ENTIRE post. First thing it ignores the entire premise of "Role confirmation =/= Affiliation confirmation" Which was the ENTIRE moral of the last game. Being able to confirm yourself doesn't mean you are town. I proved that last game and several people brought that up this game. His role wasn't even why I was town reading him, I was town reading him entirely based on behavior and saying things like "How can I avoid this next time" and all his pleas to not be lynched seeming exactly like how he was town in his first game and got mislynched. But the hypocritical part is you are now doing what you are accusing me of doing, using your town read of owen to get town cred yourself, only you have the added benefit of having conveniently been absent for the most important part of the phase that forces you into a decision. 

I have high standards for you as a player, because I have seen what you can do. I think you are one of the smartest mafia players we have on the site right now, and are more than capable of providing a strong case for a lynch on a player you want to get lynched, far enough in advance to you knowing you would be absent. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't or couldn't do that? I don't think I am ignoring large swaths of anything.

Tell me honestly. If I am scum, do you think I would be pursuing both of the hardest people to mislynch in the game, starting in day phase 1? You just saw me play as scum last game. Is my behavior in this game at all similar to that game, where I played it extremely safe every single day phase, and let town lead every single lynch on relatively safe targets to coast for a win? See where you are losing me is I know you see this, and you even mentioned town reading me for claiming a third role prevention role after two had already claimed. As scum I have a plethora of options to fake claim, not only do I claim without any real pressure, but I claim something that can be seen as scummy since there are other roles similar to mine in the game, and then I go on to pursue the two most active players in the game, and you have to somehow spin that I am doing all this with the intention to play as mafia the hardest way possible for literally 0 reason. And for all the talk about OMGUS its funny you are the one literally omgusing. My first post in the game I cast suspicion on you and pie, and I have been consistent with those reads all throughout the entire game. You actually town read me at one point, and seemingly only recently switched off of that town read when trying to use the owen lynch against me. If anyone is OMGUSing here, it's clearly you. 

I don't think this works out for you the way you are hoping it will. Being stubborn for the sake of stubborness doesn't really fit town whiteflame's MO. Even I didn't play it this hard, and had a clear reason for not claiming dp1. I never really cared about your claim anyway though, asking for your claim is for the benefit of you trying to do something to prove that you aren't scum. I was scum reading you for behavior. You claiming was for the help of everyone else in town reading you. If you wanna die on this hill of your own making that's on you.

EBWOP

This game will have a special additional mechanic: upon a player's death, a post-accident report will be conducted to determine the cause of the accident. (OP of the signups thread)

 He was also clearly the wrong choice, (WF)

Considering how little we got (the existence of a scum JOAT) (WF)

He hedged a lot in his last post, saying that he saw him as town, but that he was the best of a set of bad options. (WF)

The only option was that Lunatic was trying to draw the lynch on to him because he knew he had a really good legacy role. (Moozer)

You were there IMMEDIATELY to answer how many scum were on the wagon. You don’t just let the day phase go on til 1 hour remaining and not vote. (Lunatic)

Bullsh1t. That wasn't my point at all and you know it. My point was that as town you would be more willing to look at moozer equally as being town. While I did use the word "passive" in context it meant something different as to what you are trying to spin it as. This is what I said: 

"Not nearly as passive as he usually feels to me, I feel like hes making a mountain out of a molehill with the moozer claim. It piggy backing off of pie who feels scummy to me, makes me less sure about him. Usually whiteflame is much better at catchign scum slips, this doesn't feel like a slip though on moozer part. I just don't like the read, and it doesn't feel like town whiteflame to me."

This clearly indicates that I was scum reading you for not trying to weigh both options, something that I felt you would do as town. And I didn't use the word lazy at all. You adding that for a bit of mis-direction is amusing though. 

Now that we know I didn't say the "lazy part" it makes sense yeah? You were super aggressive with moozer but not there for the entirety of the last day phase to push a case on him? Seems a lot like my theory about you trying to make town look bad by mislynching so you can cast blame on them, meanwhile you were literally posting multiple times during the last day. But just because I think you would weigh both the town and scum option of someone doesn't mean I think you would avoid making a decision entirely. 

So for you not to be scum reading ana the claimed roleblocker, I am guessing your "theory" is going to have something to do with a redirector being in play

Then you should have said something sooner? I thought he was scum giving up by the end. He was still up there even before you left.

I do have thoughts about the info we get. It's possible that the information isn't necessarily based on the consensus answer, but rather the proportion of correct answers. Thinking of it this way- if we got the right answer 5-3 vs. 8-0, we might get more information from that 8-0. So it's possible that 2 could have been correct, but because only half the game was on it, the info wasn't entirely useful.

It might be worthwhile, this phase, for everyone to stack on a single choice. We let someone towny be the one to answer and everyone else bandwagons. The idea there is that either we get very useful information that confirms we were correct, or we essentially get worthless information that, at the very least, confirms the answer we picked was wrong.

This is a very bad look for Lunatic, in my opinion. There were 40 minutes left in the phase. There's absolutely no reason to hammer that early when WF explicitly asked for more time, especially if you think it's wrong. It's just bad form.

Do you need a timeline? Here's a timeline:

424 at 8:52 PM: WF says he's starting a class in "about 10 minutes" (9:00 PM, presumably) and that he'll "be on that for an hour" (until 10:00 PM, presumably)

495 at 9:57 PM: Lynch happens

504 at 10:04 PM: WF comes back

(Times are in my timezone, of course. The principle remains the same.)

There was no reason to expect to come back and see Day already over because there would have been half an hour left. WF probably already pointed this out, but I'm a bit steamed about making an honest-to-god activity read because you couldn't bother to be patient.

Whiteflame, Cerulean, I have a question for both of you. I want you both to take a step back and consider everything as objectively as possible. Who are your top scumreads right now? 

You have stated that you have a legacy role that activates on death, likely after an NK. I know that's how my legacy role works, so I'm not sure why you'd believe that Luna could use his legacy role if he was lynched. (WF)

And you are silenced, I presume? (Earth)

Looks like it. That would explain why scum didn't kill Pie. (WF)

I picked randomly from my pile of town reads because we didn’t have many claims that had night actions. (Moozer)

Also, point of clarification- is it correct that a lynch only happens if majority is reached? As in, if the Day ends and one wagon is leading, but doesn't have majority (just plurality), they would survive?

Generally speaking, yes, that is how it works. 

had a confirmable role, notably something scant few people have claimed to have. (WF)

The alternative to me voting owen was a no lynch, which everyone freaks out about is the worst thing town can do dp1, cerulean went into major analysis of why last phase, (Lunatic)

You just saw me play as scum last game. Is my behavior in this game at all similar to that game, where I played it extremely safe every single day phase, and let town lead every single lynch on relatively safe targets to coast for a win?

Being stubborn for the sake of stubborness doesn't really fit town whiteflame's MO

I'll add my vote to whiteflame. I don't see why he is any more special than the rest of us who have claimed.

VTL whiteflame

Very annoying, but okay. That does explains Lunatic's rationale about WF and Pie a little bit more.