Mayday Mafia DP1

Author: AustinL0926
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#241
whiteflame
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@ILikePie5
We can afford to get one more claim from someone. We need to quickly decided whether that’s Lunatic or Owen because we have around 24 hours left I think, and I’m going to be inactive for the rest of the night cause of Garba. 
I'm good with getting a claim from one of them. Luna's fine by me, but I'll read back through the DP a bit and make a decision by the end of the night.
#242
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@ILikePie5
We can afford to get one more claim from someone.
Why specifically one? Why not both? Because if we're going to pressure both, there's a good chance both are going to need to claim regardless.


I'm considering the possibility of a Lunatic-Owen team. It's looking a little far ahead without flips, but I don't like either of them independently and there is one thing that makes me suspect it as a pairing. Back in Post 110, Lunatic forgets Owen entirely in the reads list, then drops him in null a moment later. That is a red flag to me both because forgetting to put your teammate on a list is a slip that's reasonably common (among slips, anyway), and because in my experience, wolves like to put each other in null slots.

Owen is a low poster, but Lunatic still managed to have me in lean Town and Moozer in strong Town even though we were both also low posters at the time. Is Owen that hard to read?
#243
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@Owen_T
@iamanabanana
Updated Tally:

ILikePie5: Complete
Whiteflame: Complete
Earth: Complete
Casey_Risk: Complete
Moozer: 19 posts
Cerulean: 18 posts
Lunatic: 16 posts
Owen_T: 11 posts
iamanabanana: 3 posts

There's still time enough left for Owen and Banana to get up to 25 posts, but you both need to be more active to do it.

#244
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@Lunatic
But enough rambling over oldish posts- Lunatic, I want to hear from you directly about this. Why was Owen so null/forgettable to you there when his primary contribution by the point of your readslist was supporting Pie and Whiteflame on the Moozer pressure?
#245
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iamanabanana: 3 posts
I'm prepared to start spam-notifying Banana if the posting does not increase.
#246
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Yeah, I can add one more to that.

VTL lunatic for claim
#247
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@whiteflame
I don't think Banana will post much this day.
#248
Lunatic
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@Cerulean
Or I forgot Owen because he hasn’t posted anything lol
#249
Lunatic
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How the hell did I become the wagon!? And no fuck all of you, lynch me. I
#250
Lunatic
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@Moozer325
Fuck you
#251
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@Earth
Yeah, I get that impression.
#252
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@Lunatic
How the hell did I become the wagon!? And no fuck all of you, lynch me. I
As someone who isn't on your wagon, why are you responding this way?

#253
Casey_Risk
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Wow, I am NOT happy with that reaction from Luna
#254
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
Kind of drunk last thing I remember was pressuring pie and now I’m seeing votes in me so without having caught up I’m assuming he just flipped the script somehow and argued that I’m scum and without me being here you all just bandwagoned him or something
#255
Lunatic
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@Casey_Risk
Lynch me then idgaf I barely have time to play right now anyway 
#256
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@Lunatic
Kind of drunk last thing I remember was pressuring pie and now I’m seeing votes in me so without having caught up I’m assuming he just flipped the script somehow and argued that I’m scum and without me being here you all just bandwagoned him or something
Alright then. Just so you know, Pie wasn't the one originally sussing you. 

As for me, I'm not going to read into this response since... yeah, I buy that that's what is going on. I'll give you some time to sober up.

#257
Earth
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Okay that response was extreme.
#258
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Whiteflame and Pie are my only solid town reads at this moment. What are you all thinking for scum reads? 
#259
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This has been a really long DP with a lot of jumping around I'd like to see some people's thoughts/reads as of now. 
#260
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@Owen_T
I really don't think it's been that long. 
Topic's author
#261
AustinL0926
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Vote count 1.9

Luna (3/5): Casey, Earth, Moozer
Pie (1/5): Luna
Owen (1/5): Cerulean

Thus, the first NTSB report (issued on December 8, 1992) did not conclude with the usual "probable cause". Instead, it stated... 
The National Transportation Safety Board, after an exhaustive investigation effort, could not identify conclusive evidence to explain the loss of United Airlines Flight 585.


#262
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@Cerulean
Sigh.

Can someone sanity check me on if it looks like Lunatic is TMIing Moozer in this post? Seems very certain to the degree of "Moozer is so town that Pie and Whiteflame are scummy for pushing there specifically." That's removing a bit of the nuance, I know, but it sounds like the general point being conveyed.
Pie has a history of righteous indignation, and frequently leads mislynches. He is very aggressive as a scum player (he is as town too) but I feel like his logic will be a little looser to achieve his objectives as scum. Pie has a history of leading the mislynch and trying to pass off the scummy behavior as part of the person who was mislynched fault, or the mods  fault, or virtually anyone but his fault. Anyways he's not always wrong, but the looser the logic, and the heavier the push, it feels more like his scum games to me. I am not picking up the same warning signs about moozer as he is, and for me that is screaming at me that this is scum pie pushing a mislynch. 
#263
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
How do you know it’s a mislynch? I have yet to hear why Moozer is town besides “muh vibes.” 
Because I just played mafia with moozer and this doesn't feel like his scum reaction. He was much more prone to mistake in that game, and it was miracle he survived as long as he did. His reactions and responses feel very genuine here in comparison, and the biggest argument against him is that his role justification is a stretch, which I have already stated mine is too. And I thought a lot of the role links in indian politicians were stretches too. Without being privy to context sometimes it's hard to see the role link the mod had in mind. Hell sometimes as mod, I have an idea for role and I want to put that role in so badly that I will purposely stretch a justification for a character to make it work, even though there are way better roles than can fit it. Moozer's answers and information about his role all sounds completely legit to me. I don't know he is town, I just know the reasons he is being pushed aren't good. I'd be more okay with the push if their were behavioral reasons going with the analysis.
#264
Lunatic
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@Cerulean
Too Much Information. Scum knows everyone's alignment, so if a player has an unreasonable degree of confidence in someone's role, it might be a sign that they're scum who already knows that what they're saying is true for sure. It's why I nudged you a bit for that early post.

To me, it looks like Lunatic is so confident in Moozer being Town- without a whole lot of basis- that he's calling Pie and Whiteflame as "scum for being wrong," in a way. Do you think that's too uncharitable of an interpretation?

Keep in mind, I literally just played a game of mafia with moozer and I think it was moozers only like second game as mafia. He made a lot of mistakes and was the top scum read virtually the whole game. It was a miracle he survived until the end. I personally didn't feel like he handled pressure too well. His responses and answers in this game feel drastically different, and everything adds up much better. He's been active and not avoidant unlike the other game. I have been mostly mobile posting, so I haven't made all of this as clear as I am now, but this all factors into why I town read moozer and why it feels like pie is stretching a bit with the logic to lynch him. Pie was the mod of the last game and witnessed all of this and I feel like should also know this is a very different moozer from last game.
#265
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
Alright then. Just so you know, Pie wasn't the one originally sussing you. 

As for me, I'm not going to read into this response since... yeah, I buy that that's what is going on. I'll give you some time to sober up.

Sorry about that, but in general I am not gonna claim day phase one for virtually no reason, especially if other vets like you and pie haven't yet. Immediately seeing I had three votes, I was sure pie was just controlling the narrative with his high activity while I was sleeping through most of the day like usual.
#266
Lunatic
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@Cerulean
But enough rambling over oldish posts- Lunatic, I want to hear from you directly about this. Why was Owen so null/forgettable to you there when his primary contribution by the point of your readslist was supporting Pie and Whiteflame on the Moozer pressure?
Yeah I think I answered this already, but he didn't even make a post at that time. I was just winging a read list at the time too, it wasn't a carefully thought out process, or something I was even planning on doing. I had mentioned like 4 other players and so I just said at this point I might as well just do a  read list. I was on mobile and at dinner as well. After posting it just realized owen wasn't included in it, but didn't have anything to say about him because he hadn't posted yet. 
#267
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@Owen_T
At this point, I think I'm more willing to push Owen for a claim than Luna. I can see the basis for the latter, but the pattern I'm seeing from Owen (as Cerulean has pointed out) is more troubling. I also don't really understand how he's townreading Pie and me at this point, especially given that he hasn't put a vote on anyone this DP - he's just said that he thinks Moozer is "slight scum" and is apparently less convinced than Pie about just how scummy he is. If we're going to get another claim, I'd prefer it be his.

VTL Owen
#268
Moozer325
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@Lunatic
I have a theory, but you’re enough of an experienced player that I’ll trust you and go along with it

You’re still my number one target for the lynch this DP.
#269
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
Unless anything changes majorly over the course of this DP, I’m ready to lynch Lunatic.
#270
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@Moozer325
Unless anything changes majorly over the course of this DP, I’m ready to lynch Lunatic.
I might scumread this if I didn't see you as town. I don't like that you're this willing to lynch him without a claim. I know he's taking a very hardline tack against claiming, but it's not like he's at L-1 right now, and I'd want to at least try to get that information before we just lynch him.