Mayday Mafia DP1

Author: AustinL0926

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@Owen_T
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
I'm going to renew the post tally (I'll just say "complete" for anyone who has 25 or more) and head offline for a bit. I'm also going to tag those lower on the post numbers. There are a few of you in particular that really need to raise your numbers since we're over halfway through the DP at this point and you're well under half the number of posts required to get your legacy role.

ILikePie5: Complete
Whiteflame: Complete
Earth: 18 posts
Casey_Risk: 17 posts
Lunatic: 14 posts
Moozer: 12 posts
Cerulean: 6 posts
Owen_T: 3 posts
iamanabanana: 3 posts

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@Moozer325
Okay, turns out I was wrong and I can claim my legacy role. Because no one died on my flight, I have access to the total number of deaths on all of these flights. I can't share it, but It will be released upon my death.
I don’t see the connection between no one dying and knowing the total deaths on all the flights. It’s also odd that you can’t share it because it’s not all that helpful to town. Scum can get fake claims and therefore, the numbers will probably never add up, and you wouldn’t know who is lying about their number
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@Casey_Risk
Again, this is an area where Moozer is being ambiguous, but I don't think the number is based on the number of players remaining, I think it's just a static, unchanging number based on all the players. If Moozer is telling the truth, however, then scum HAVE to have a Janitor or a Tailor. The game would be too town sided otherwise. 
It’s basically mod confirmed that there’s a role like that based on OP. But the fact that he can’t reveal the number is very weak itself for reasons I just explained
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@Earth
It's not so much as me believing his claim, but the fact that I can see him being Strengthener.
What’s the difference between the two?

Although, I will admit his claim is kinda odd and would like him to fully clarify.
It’s very weak
Casey_Risk
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@ILikePie5
I don’t see the connection between no one dying and knowing the total deaths on all the flights. It’s also odd that you can’t share it because it’s not all that helpful to town. Scum can get fake claims and therefore, the numbers will probably never add up, and you wouldn’t know who is lying about their number
Yes, but you could find all the ways to add up the numbers from all the claims and all the flips and figure out which set of claims adds up to the actual total. Most likely there would only be one or two, which would make the PoE trivial for town. That's why the scum team would need to be able to interfere with flips.
Casey_Risk
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@ILikePie5
Look at it this way. Moozer shares the total number of fatalities from all the incidents in the game. We force a mass claim and have everyone reveal their character, then look for every possible way the numbers could add up to Moozer's total. Chances are, there'd only be one. We then kick out the scum. Game is solved DP1. Completely unfair to the scum team. If Moozer is telling the truth about his legacy role, he'd have to be forbidden from sharing the number. It's the only way it could be balanced.
Earth
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@ILikePie5
I just have a bad feeling about this lynch lol...
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
Yes, but you could find all the ways to add up the numbers from all the claims and all the flips and figure out which set of claims adds up to the actual total. Most likely there would only be one or two, which would make the PoE trivial for town. That's why the scum team would need to be able to interfere with flips.
Again, you’re assuming that everyone tells the truth. Scum are going to lie about their flight and so the number will never add up to the true number.

Look at it this way. Moozer shares the total number of fatalities from all the incidents in the game. We force a mass claim and have everyone reveal their character, then look for every possible way the numbers could add up to Moozer's total. Chances are, there'd only be one. We then kick out the scum. Game is solved DP1. Completely unfair to the scum team. If Moozer is telling the truth about his legacy role, he'd have to be forbidden from sharing the number. It's the only way it could be balanced.
That’s not true though. The number will never add up to the true number as long as scum fake claim, which they likely will. If the number is 1000, there are a million ways to get there, and you don’t know who is fake claiming or not.
ILikePie5
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@Earth
I just have a bad feeling about this lynch lol...
I have a great feeling about this lynch. Regardless, if you don’t feel good about this lynch, what do you want to do next? 
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@ILikePie5
That’s not true though. The number will never add up to the true number as long as scum fake claim, which they likely will. If the number is 1000, there are a million ways to get there, and you don’t know who is fake claiming or not.
Actually that's true, I realized after I made my post that  the total would also presumably include scum claims, not just town claims. In that case you're right, there would be no way to solve the game so easily DP1, but I still think Moozer's legacy would be useful to the town. Given what we know about scum's manipulative potential, I think Moozer's claim is very interesting. I'm actually more willing to buy it now that he's expanded on it.
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I realized after I made my post that  the total would also presumably include scum claims, not just town claims.
I meant characters, not claims.
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@Casey_Risk
Actually that's true, I realized after I made my post that  the total would also presumably include scum claims, not just town claims. In that case you're right, there would be no way to solve the game so easily DP1, but I still think Moozer's legacy would be useful to the town. Given what we know about scum's manipulative potential, I think Moozer's claim is very interesting. I'm actually more willing to buy it now that he's expanded on it.
I disagree. Because it’s not broken at all, why would Austin design it in a way where he can’t claim that.
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@ILikePie5
I disagree. Because it’s not broken at all, why would Austin design it in a way where he can’t claim that.
It's early town info, before even NP1. Besides, it's clear that the whole point of the legacy roles is to get people involved and active in the game. No freebie advantages to the town.
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@Casey_Risk
It's early town info, before even NP1. Besides, it's clear that the whole point of the legacy roles is to get people involved and active in the game. No freebie advantages to the town.
Austin could’ve made it so that you have to post 25 times before saying the number. There’s no reason why he would’ve made it 25 posts and only if you die considering it’s a weak role to begin with.
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@ILikePie5
Austin could’ve made it so that you have to post 25 times before saying the number. There’s no reason why he would’ve made it 25 posts and only if you die considering it’s a weak role to begin with.
All the legacy roles activate upon death. It's plainly stated in the OP. 

Each player's role has two parts - a regular role, and a legacy role. The legacy role will activate on death if and only if that player has met an activity requirement - 25 posts in the previous day phase.
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
All the legacy roles activate upon death. It's plainly stated in the OP. 
Ur right, ignore what I said
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@Casey_Risk
Wait, actually it doesn’t matter. The role activates at death, but why does Austin prohibit Moozer from saying it before death. 

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@ILikePie5
Wait, actually it doesn’t matter. The role activates at death, but why does Austin prohibit Moozer from saying it before death. 
Because then the legacy role would be redundant. The whole point is to get the players active in the game so that they can actually give their team an advantage. 
Earth
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What's the point of Austin telling Moozer what the number is, but not letting him say it? Wouldn't it be better if Austin went "when you die, I will announce the total number of fatalities of every character combined."?
Owen_T
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I'm a little lost. I'm gonna have to reread before I contribute anything, but it seems it's all already been hyper analyzed. 
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@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
I’ll say this about my justification. There are defiantly some games where the mods put more or less effort into making accurate justifications. If by DP2 everyone seems to have a much better justification, then that would be more cause for a lynch, but at this point it also looks like I might not get that far.

AustinL0926
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Vote count 1.6

Moozer (2/5): Pie, Casey
whiteflame (1/5): Luna

Upon investigation, the crash was found to have been caused primarily by negligence on the part of the flight crew... [a] misinterpretation changed the navigational direction entered in the computer from north-northeast (27.0°) to west (270°)... ultimately leading to spatial disorientation, fuel exhaustion, and a crash landing in the Amazon rainforest. - Varig Flight 254

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@Earth
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
What's the point of Austin telling Moozer what the number is, but not letting him say it? Wouldn't it be better if Austin went "when you die, I will announce the total number of fatalities of every character combined."?
That's a good question. I do find that a bit odd, though I could still see it potentially being in the game. Right now, I'd like to hear a little more from Banana and Cerulean. They haven't spoken up in a bit. 
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
Because then the legacy role would be redundant. The whole point is to get the players active in the game so that they can actually give their team an advantage. 
It wouldn’t be redundant because we’d theoretically still have to lynch a Town Moozer to be 100% sure. Otherwise it could just be Moozer as scum lying.
ILikePie5
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@Earth
What's the point of Austin telling Moozer what the number is, but not letting him say it? Wouldn't it be better if Austin went "when you die, I will announce the total number of fatalities of every character combined."?
This is also a good point. Why go through the lengths of saying you can’t say your legacy role info vs just saying it will be revealed upon your death.
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
That's a good question. I do find that a bit odd, though I could still see it potentially being in the game. Right now, I'd like to hear a little more from Banana and Cerulean. They haven't spoken up in a bit. 
I’m fine with getting some reads from them, but I’m still heavily leaning towards Moozer
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
I don’t see the connection between no one dying and knowing the total deaths on all the flights. It’s also odd that you can’t share it because it’s not all that helpful to town. Scum can get fake claims and therefore, the numbers will probably never add up, and you wouldn’t know who is lying about their number
Oh come on you can’t judge someone as scum because they have a role that doesn’t “help town”. We have a miller claim as well as Ana claimed a scum role..
Lunatic
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vtl pie

Pie is getting a bit too loose with his logic for a mislynch for my liking. I am at dinner so I can post more in depth later on
Owen_T
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I agree with Lunatic. Pie has been way too aggressive. Is that normal for him?
Cerulean
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Tch, I haven't been up to my usual standard. Too distracted. I'll be getting to responding to a few things now- and I suppose it might as well be in multiple posts.