Mayday Mafia DP1

Author: AustinL0926
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#121
whiteflame
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@iamanabanana
I don't really have any reads at this time, I know that isn't super helpful. Mafia is still a bit confusing to me, and I don't really know how you are all reading each other so easily. It might be that I am just not used to this crowd, but I don't really see anything that stands out. 
I’d still suggest posting as much as you can to increase your post count, even if it’s mainly questions like this one:

What is a miller and why is earth being pressured for being one?
The Miller investigates guilty, but is town. So it’s a negative town utility role that could be used as a basis for trying to get heat off of you if you’re investigated by a Cop. I wouldn’t say anyone’s pressuring Earth right now, but I can see how he might be a target of suspicion if we aren’t sussing anyone by the end of the DP.

#122
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@iamanabanana
I don't really have any reads at this time, I know that isn't super helpful. Mafia is still a bit confusing to me, and I don't really know how you are all reading each other so easily. It might be that I am just not used to this crowd, but I don't really see anything that stands out.
My only advice for scum hunting would be just go with your gut. If something feels weird for someone to say, point it out and say why it felt weird. We're basically roleplaying cops here. On day phase 1 without a lot to go off of, it's okay to make a bigger deal out of things then seems rational. You will learn people's metas and can associate differently from them. For example: Pie loves policy lynching millers. It's a meta that I don't think everyone agrees with, but him saying it is a null tell since it's something he would do regardless of affiliation. 

Or Joebob (who isn't in this claim) claiming early, and easily, or not contributing much isn't a scum tell as its a common behavior with him. Unfortunately he still gets mislynched constantly for it, as you saw in the last game. Joebob is probably one of the most mislynched players in mafia period. 

Or Greyparrot, insta claiming, isn't a scum tell and something he would do regardless of affiliation. You just have to learn the group we play with and see their little niche things they do over time. Until then just nit pick everything and go with your gut and what feels right.

What is a miller and why is earth being pressured for being one?
He isn't being pressured, Pie just wants to lynch him if there are no alternatives. I am ignoring the policy lynch millers idea and I think for the most part everyone else is too. It's a pie thing. Anyways millers appear guilty to cop results, and are designed as a negative utility role for town. 
#123
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@Lunatic
If that is your read that is your read, my goal isn't to change your mind on it, more to determine if it's genuine or opportunistic seeming. It just felt a bit out of character to me personally, but I could be mis-reading the situation.
Alright, fair enough.

To be fair looseness and directness of role pm's are kind of arbitrary. I thought a lot of them in the indian politicians games didn't really make a TON of sense where others thought they did.
I agree, though this is a different game with a different mod. Maybe I’m just assuming too much about how Austin designed these justifications, but I’m seeing more precision and care in Earth’s and mine.

Who do you think moozers partner would be if scum? I don't see him coming up with strengthener by himself. 
Right now, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s Pie because he’s been pretty clearly pushing Moozer early and often. Several people in this game have seen the role claimed before when Earth used it as a fake claim in the Ace Attorney game. 
#124
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@whiteflame
I get that Pie and I are on the same wavelength (which is generally rare - it didn’t even typify our game as scum together), but is your basis for sussing me really that I tend to be better at catching scum slips? 
No, and that doesn't really apply here because I think we can both agree that there wasn't really a "slip" here. It's more that you aren't buying a justification. I was more surprised by your eagerness to assume he was scum is all. 

I appreciate the sentiment, but two claims on the table, I’m working with what I have. Not finding a scum slip isn’t scummy.
Not really my point, its more that you seem to be treating what you feel is a scummy role claim the same way you tend to treat a scum slip you found as town (like what you did with moozer last game, and supa the game prior, both of which DID make scum slips, and were actually scum). You seem just as aggressive with this as though it was a scum slip or something. 

Pointing out a clear deviation from an existing claim and my own isn’t scummy. As for not being passive, in a game where posting a lot more is a mechanic, yes, you can bet I’m going to engage more and push more people to give their thoughts. I said that much up front.
I don't know if passive is really the word I am looking for, though I guess to some extent it works. The reason it stood out to me really is that it felt more "lazy, oppertunistic", like you are perfectly okay with lynching him whereas I feel like town whiteflame would have tried to see more both sides of moozer here and weigh him as being town equally. Your town playstyle is more "lawyer" like where I feel like you have to have a pretty good reason to want to lynch someone before caving to it. 
#125
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@whiteflame
Thanks for the help guys... Umm Idk really what more to say right now but I will check in a bit later.
#126
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@Lunatic
No, and that doesn't really apply here because I think we can both agree that there wasn't really a "slip" here. It's more that you aren't buying a justification. I was more surprised by your eagerness to assume he was scum is all. 
Saying I’m sussing his claim doesn’t mean I’m assuming he’s scum. Right now, between the two existing claims, his stands out as strange. Yes, I’m not buying his justification, but claiming that’s some “eagerness” on my part is strange. I’ve also been calling for this DP to progress to a lynch extremely slowly to allow more people more activity.

Not really my point, its more that you seem to be treating what you feel is a scummy role claim the same way you tend to treat a scum slip you found as town (like what you did with moozer last game, and supa the game prior, both of which DID make scum slips, and were actually scum). You seem just as aggressive with this as though it was a scum slip or something.
I pointed out the scum slip from Moozer and then dropped the issue because I was unsure of it after some discussion. I was sussing him until I wasn’t because Moozer convinced me that his PM could have been misunderstood. That was a mistake, but I’m still openly asking for other perspectives to see if I’m tunneling or missing something. Keeping my vote on him and still sussing him isn’t what I would call “aggressive,” especially since my repeatedly stated goal is to gin up activity first and foremost.

I don't know if passive is really the word I am looking for, though I guess to some extent it works. The reason it stood out to me really is that it felt more "lazy, oppertunistic", like you are perfectly okay with lynching him whereas I feel like town whiteflame would have tried to see more both sides of moozer here and weigh him as being town equally. Your town playstyle is more "lawyer" like where I feel like you have to have a pretty good reason to want to lynch someone before caving to it. 
I really don’t recognize the way you’re characterizing my behavior this DP. I didn’t say that I’m fine with lynching him. I said his claim is sus, that doesn’t mean I’m automatically prepared to lynch him. I don’t really get either the lazy or opportunistic labels, either.
#127
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@ILikePie5
Moozer. Too many inconsistencies with his role, justification, and behavior. Only thing for you is probably role
You have a profound distaste for millers though. Are you that sure from a couple posts that Moozer is scum that you would lynch him over a potential liability like the miller?
#128
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@Moozer325
Can you ask Austin if Strengtheners can nullify the effects of Redirectors?
#129
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@iamanabanana
I think that in my first game, I posted no more then 5 times in DP1, but I did get more into it later. It’s actually pretty normal to be a little overwhelmed in the owning. Just try and keep up as best you can.
#130
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@Earth
I believe so. The way it was described to me was that it can protect the action of my target from any interference, so I assume that it includes redirectors. Why do you ask?
#131
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@Lunatic
Prima facie, it sounds legit to me. 
Explain
#132
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@Moozer325
But did you get that confirmed by Austin?
#133
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@Lunatic
I buy all the claims right now. Earth doesn't strike me as a risky move maker as scum, I don't think he claims something ballsy like miller. Thats more of a wylted or a lunatic move IMO. I am almost willing to town confirm him for that.
That’s fine; you’re entitled to your opinion.

Moozer I buy as well, not as strongly convinced he is town, but also a bit of mod psyche here, I don't know how likely it is to score scum twice in a row, plus I didn't notice any blaring mistakes.
People have been scum back to back multiple times. I also assume that Austin randomized the roles, so it’s just as likely as last game that he is scum. As for mistakes, I’d call not posting when being online a mistake for sure. I’d also call basically making the exact same post I made a mistake as well.

Moozer kind of made mistakes claiming when I was scum with him, though he did have ample time to prepare. I also kind of town read him because I am sensing that he is the intended mislynch for today.

Unfortunately I am scum reading pie and whiteflame a bit for their over eagerness to lynch moozer. Moozer feels like an easy mislynch target today.
His behavior is scummy. His role is scummy. His justification is scummy. You can’t seriously with a straight face say that having no lives lost is a Strengthener vs some form of a protective role. It’s not even weak. There is no justification.
#134
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@iamanabanana
What is a miller and why is earth being pressured for being one?
A Miller appears guilty to investigations yet wins with town. It’s an easy role for scum to claim and when they’re investigated guilty (as scum would normally), they get a pass. So the issue is that Earth could be town, but he could also be scum. There’s just no way for us to know, which is why I like to avoid headaches down the line.

But, from playing experience, they are usually town, so I usually keep Millers as a last resort lynch if we don’t have any other scummy candidates because we should lynch every DP and Millers don’t contribute much. I’ll also note that I’ve left Millers alive till endgame as town because of this policy of mine
#135
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@whiteflame
I get that Pie and I are on the same wavelength (which is generally rare - it didn’t even typify our game as scum together), but is your basis for sussing me really that I tend to be better at catching scum slips? I appreciate the sentiment, but two claims on the table, I’m working with what I have. Not finding a scum slip isn’t scummy. Pointing out a clear deviation from an existing claim and my own isn’t scummy. As for not being passive, in a game where posting a lot more is a mechanic, yes, you can bet I’m going to engage more and push more people to give their thoughts. I said that much up front.
I agree with this. We are the two most detailed people when it comes to roles, characters, and justifications. Plus in a game where everyone needs to make 25 posts, it doesn’t mean that much. It’s not my fault that I’m driving the game—I literally always have to because the rest of Town doesn’t.
#136
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@Earth
You have a profound distaste for millers though.
I do, but as I said, if we scum hunt and find a better option, they should be lynched. I’ll also note that I’ve left millers alive to endgame depending on events.

Are you that sure from a couple posts that Moozer is scum that you would lynch him over a potential liability like the miller?
Yes. His justification doesn’t match. His behavior is scummy. His role is scummy. I’m 95% sure he’s scum.

While we’re on Moozer. Why do you believe his role/justification?
#137
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@Earth
Yes, I did. 
#138
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@ILikePie5
Okay, turns out I was wrong and I can claim my legacy role. Because no one died on my flight, I have access to the total number of deaths on all of these flights. I can't share it, but It will be released upon my death.
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#139
AustinL0926
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Vote count 1.5

Moozer (3/5): Pie, whiteflame, Casey
whiteflame (1/5): Luna


Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai... that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by two missiles fired by USS Vincennes, an American warship. According to the US, Vincennes's crew misidentified the aircraft as an F-14, a fighter jet part of the Iranian inventory, despite it transmitting civilian identification codes... Whilst not issuing a formal apology, American president Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to Iran, expressing deep regret.  -Iran_Air_Flight_655

#140
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@Moozer325
Okay, turns out I was wrong and I can claim my legacy role. Because no one died on my flight, I have access to the total number of deaths on all of these flights. I can't share it, but It will be released upon my death.
Please explain this. What do you mean "the total number of deaths on all these flights"? What information are you getting and how much of it would be shared if you died?

#141
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@whiteflame
I know the total number of all the combined deaths from all the flights in the game. I can’t say what that number is, but it will be revealed upon my death.
#142
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@Moozer325
I know the total number of all the combined deaths from all the flights in the game. I can’t say what that number is, but it will be revealed upon my death.
You're repeating the claim rather than answering my question. What differentiates "the combined deaths from all the flights in the game" from just looking at the OP in future DPs and seeing the number of people who have died due to lynches or NKs? If you don't know, this is the point where you're supposed to ask Austin. I cannot ask him for you.

#143
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@whiteflame
I know the number now, and I think that the same number will be the one released, but I’ll check.
#144
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@whiteflame
@Moozer325
I think that by the total number of deaths, he's talking about real-life deaths. As in, the number of death's from Earth's accident, plus mine, plus yours, etc. Do I have that right, Moozer? 
#145
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@Casey_Risk
Yeah, sorry I was so confusing. Should have clarified.
#146
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@Moozer325
I know the number now, and I think that the same number will be the one released, but I’ll check.
We're getting somewhere, but I'm still missing important context. You say you have a number. That number represents... what? The number of people who perished total across all the actual flight incidents as they happened? If so, will eliminated players have the number of deaths on their flight removed from that total?
#147
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Alright, I'm going to think on this for a bit. For now:

Unvote

A couple of things that are swimming around in my head now. One, this in no way relates to the Strengthener claim at all. I'll say that my legacy role is very much interrelated with my base role. Two, it's a pretty roundabout way to get information that almost entirely relies on getting everyone to claim their flight, adding up the numbers, subtracting out the numbers of people who die after Moozer is eliminated, and trying to see what combination of numbers from each flight make the most sense adding up to the remaining total. I could see that being useful later game, and I could see Austin running a role like this, but it's really only useful late game as the number of players goes down.
#148
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@whiteflame
Yeah, it’s the number of deaths on all out combined flights. Austin’s still getting back to me if I can see if the number changes.
#149
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@whiteflame
@Moozer325
A couple of things that are swimming around in my head now. One, this in no way relates to the Strengthener claim at all. I'll say that my legacy role is very much interrelated with my base role.
My legacy is (somewhat weakly) connected to my character, but not my role, so I don't think that part is suspicious.

Two, it's a pretty roundabout way to get information that almost entirely relies on getting everyone to claim their flight, adding up the numbers, subtracting out the numbers of people who die after Moozer is eliminated, and trying to see what combination of numbers from each flight make the most sense adding up to the remaining total. I could see that being useful later game, and I could see Austin running a role like this, but it's really only useful late game as the number of players goes down.
Again, this is an area where Moozer is being ambiguous, but I don't think the number is based on the number of players remaining, I think it's just a static, unchanging number based on all the players. If Moozer is telling the truth, however, then scum HAVE to have a Janitor or a Tailor. The game would be too town sided otherwise. 
#150
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@ILikePie5
While we’re on Moozer. Why do you believe his role/justification?
It's not so much as me believing his claim, but the fact that I can see him being Strengthener. Although, I will admit his claim is kinda odd and would like him to fully clarify.