Indian Politicians Mafia DP1

Author: ILikePie5

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Lunatic
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I am affiliated with the BJP as well. 

Also heads up I will be casually checking in on my phone tomorrow, but won't be too active. It's UFC saturday and Sean O Malley is fighting, i'm hosting a party so i'll be tied up with that. But I'll be on all day sunday
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@whiteflame
I understand your perspective on the matter, though I'll note that, especially in a game where scum can ask questions of Pie about the existence of certain characters and roles in the game, there's value in at least forcing them to ask early, since doing so later nets them more opportunities to know about existing claims. Soft claims at least require them to put themselves into a given camp, which limits their choices later on. I also think that asking about character information can reveal some behavioral info, but that's mainly a question of emphasis.
I understand all that, I am mainly bringing it up because it was a wierd theme and I figured no one here would probably be able to guess the theme split anyway, since everyone is saying they no nothing about indian politics, and I figure mafia at least will abre minimum know the theme split. If you guys are willing to put the effort into theme analysis it could be worth it, I personally am not, and will be focusing more on behavior and role analysis than character analysis since I have literally 0 clue about any indian politics, don't care to research anything, and almost didn't even want to sign up for this game because of the theme alone lol. So far you and casey seem interested in figuring out the theme and if it turns out you guys are town, it could be helpful. If either or both of you are scum, then this soft claiming thing probably will backfire. But we can play it out and see how it goes. 
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know*
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@Owen_T
My character is scummy in the way that they're described as a horrible person. If I'm correct the mafia are generally the bad guys in context of the theme. 

I was just thinking that if I gave my claim, it would totally make me look mafia so I thought I would preadress that. 

I'm with whiteflame on this, I am assuming a lot of these politicians will sound scummy in their descriptions, especially in a game designed by pie who is a very politically charged person. But I don't think he generally does good vs evil in his theme splits, so your politician sounding "scummy" doesn't really ring any alarm bells for me. 
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@AustinL0926
Owen feels a bit pre-defensive about his character. Gives me some slightly off vibes, I think he's experienced enough to know that scummy characters don't translate at all to alignment.
That's interesting, I feel the opposite about Owen. I figure he would just try and fake claim before claiming his real character, and the fact that he is informing us of this in advance feels more like "Hey when I inevitably claim my character it's gonna sound scummy" which feels more town when he could just lie altogether about it. I would see it as more pre-defensive maybe from a different person with more experience who is lazy and maybe doesn't wanna try and fake claim, but noobs tend to get mis-lynched for trivial things and being misunderstood, so him going out of his way to clarify that seems more of a town tell coming from him. 
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@iamanabanana
I am a she btw lol
Sorry, will use that in the future.
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@Earth
Tag, why in particular do you feel it was a bad idea to pressure new players in this game?
Generally speaking, I feel like you can't get much out of a new player that you could from someone more experienced.

Also I have no idea what the Lok/Rayja Sabha is and find no mention of it on my character's wiki.
Can you explain this? I feel that newbs are a lot easier to sort by alignment simply because if they're town, they'll just naturally towntell under pressure. You can't do that with experienced players who can fake that as scum.
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@Lunatic
That's interesting, I feel the opposite about Owen. I figure he would just try and fake claim before claiming his real character, and the fact that he is informing us of this in advance feels more like "Hey when I inevitably claim my character it's gonna sound scummy" which feels more town when he could just lie altogether about it. I would see it as more pre-defensive maybe from a different person with more experience who is lazy and maybe doesn't wanna try and fake claim, but noobs tend to get mis-lynched for trivial things and being misunderstood, so him going out of his way to clarify that seems more of a town tell coming from him. 
There's a reasonably substantial risk in fakeclaiming - while there won't be counterclaims due to the question system, it risks having a character that doesn't fit in with the rest, or more obviously, doesn't have a good justification in regards to the role. I don't think claiming what would be his real character is clearing at all.

I agree that I can see it coming from a worried town!Owen though.
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This is a little bit random, but I think it's kinda towny for Earth to say he doesn't know what the "Lok Rayja/Sabha" is and can't find it on his wiki. Not only does it draw attention to him for something that could probably be remedied by a bit of research, but also really narrows down his potential character claims later on if he's accountable for telling the truth abut that.
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I just compared this game to Casey's last one. They feel a lot more stilted and formal. It's not something I would scumread on it's own, but when we compare the two:

This game:

Hey everyone, glad to see this site alive despite everything. I know little about Indian politics, so I'm gonna have to do some research for this one. I think it ought to be interesting though. 

Alright, so here's an idea to get things moving: how about we all say what party our characters belong to? I feel like that might be a decent way to start. I'll go first. My politician is a member of BJP. 

Well, fair enough. In that case, how about we all say whether our characters are a member of BJP, INC, or neither, and whether they are a member of the Lok Sabha, Rayja Sabha, or neither. I am a member of the Lok Sabha, technically speaking (I think).

Last game:

If scum get counterclaimed in this game, that's just going to be downright hilarious. They have literally thousands of choices.

Anyway, I don't think I've seen Moozer as scum yet. He must be due for it. Let's lynch him now, gambler's fallacy be damned.

VTL Moozer

Technically I was scum in that game you modded. 
Oh yeah, I guess that's true. You didn't get to end up playing, though, so does it really count? I think that's debatable. Someone should make a site where we can debate stuff like that.

Wow, we're making really slow progress here. Normally, this is where I'd be pushing for soft claims from everyone to lock in character claims, but I'm not really sure how helpful that will be to the town considering the sheer breadth of options the scum team has for fake claims. Nonetheless, I guess it's something to go off of. I'll start by saying that my year is in the first century AD. What century is everyone else from?

There's just a huge tonal difference here.

AustinL0926
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Admittedly, I'm grasping a bit for scumreads here since I have little reasons to townread a lot of the people who've posted so far, but still:

VTL Casey
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Ordered readlist:

Town

Luna
Banana

Earth
Owen

whiteflame

Vader
Moozer

Casey

Scum


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@AustinL0926
There's just a huge tonal difference here.
Well, you're not wrong, but tbh I've just been a bit busy these past couple days. I was less busy at the start of the last mafia game and felt like starting the game off in a more playful manner. 
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@Vader
@Owen_T
                                    BJP/INC/Neither                     Lok Sabha/Rayja Sabha/Neither
1. Casey -                            BJP                                                           Lok Sabha
2. Lunatic -                         BJP 
3. Austin -                           BJP                                                  Lok Sabha (former)
4. Whiteflame -             Neither                                                         Neither
5. Owen -                    Horrible Person
6. Banana -                        BJP                                                           Lok Sahba
7. Earth -                             BJP
8. Vader - 
9. Moozer -                         BJP                                                          Rayja Shaba

There's a lot of BJP claims, which makes me think that scum is likely hiding in the crowd here. That being said, I'm still looking for at least party claims from both Vader and Owen. I do think Owen's being cagey about his claim comes off as townie (I agree with Luna's reasoning on that front), but I'd still like more information.
Owen_T
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I am from the TMC
Earth
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@AustinL0926
Can you explain this? I feel that newbs are a lot easier to sort by alignment simply because if they're town, they'll just naturally towntell under pressure. You can't do that with experienced players who can fake that as scum
I suppose. At any rate, I'll just out my character. I'm Bhupendrabhai Patel. 
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Official Vote Count:

Vader (1/5) - Lunatic
Casey (1/5) - Austin

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@Owen_T
I am from the TMC
What party is that? I can't find it on Wikipedia 
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@Earth
At any rate, I'll just out my character. I'm Bhupendrabhai Patel. 
I'm curious why you felt the need to suddenly out your own character like that. It's not like anyone was really pressuring you to do so. Nonetheless, it would explain why you weren't sure whether he belonged to the Lok Sabha or the Rajya Sabha -- he belongs to neither. From what I just read on Wikipedia, he's the minister of Gujarat, which I think can roughly be compared to the role of a governor in the US. 
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@Owen_T
I am from the TMC
Oh wait, is that the Trinamool Congress? That would make sense. 
whiteflame
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                                      Political Party                                                        Position
1. Casey -                            BJP                                                                Lok Sabha
2. Lunatic -                         BJP 
3. Austin -                           BJP                                                         Lok Sabha (former)
4. Whiteflame -             Neither                                                               Minister
5. Owen -                            TMC (Bhupendrabhai Patel)        Minister of Gujarat
6. Banana -                        BJP                                                                 Lok Sahba
7. Earth -                             BJP
8. Vader -                                                                                                   
9. Moozer -                         BJP                                                               Rayja Shaba

Given that Owen claimed a ministerial role, I've added that my character is a minister, though I'll still leave out his political party for the time being as well as the location that he ministers. For what it's worth, I townread Owen for his claim.
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@whiteflame
Given that Owen claimed a ministerial role, I've added that my character is a minister, though I'll still leave out his political party for the time being as well as the location that he ministers. For what it's worth, I townread Owen for his claim.
You mixed up Earth and Owen -- Earth was the one who clamed to be a minister, not Owen. That being said, I do actually townread Owen for his claim, for a couple reasons. First, he used the acronym TMC, when AITC (All India Trinamool Congress) is the more common one and the one used on Wikipedia. I would have to assume that only someone who is more familiar with Indian politics (like Pie, presumably) would use TMC.

For another, Wikipedia says that TMC's ideology is based on "Bengali nationalism, Regionalism, Populism, Welfarism, Progressivism, Social liberalism, and Secularism". Owen was worried about how his character was apparently painted as being a very bad person, and given that Pie is a big fan of right-wing politics (obviously), it makes sense that his role PM would likely speak negatively about his character. Granted, Owen could just be faking that part, but even still, he claimed that his character would seem scummy pretty much immediately, and I feel like scum Owen probably wouldn't do that, so I'm inclined to believe he's likely town.
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@Casey_Risk
Quite right, apologies for the mix-up. Here's the accurate version:

                                      Political Party                                                        Position
1. Casey -                            BJP                                                                Lok Sabha
2. Lunatic -                         BJP 
3. Austin -                           BJP                                                         Lok Sabha (former)
4. Whiteflame -             Neither                                                               Minister
5. Owen -                            TMC                       
6. Banana -                        BJP                                                                 Lok Sahba
7. Earth -                             BJP (Bhupendrabhai Patel)           Minister of Gujarat
8. Vader -                                                                                                   
9. Moozer -                         BJP                                                               Rayja Shaba

So I'm townreading Earth over his claim. I think your point about Owen's claim holds weight as well. I will, however, note that my PM does not contain my character's party, whether as an acronym or fully spelled out.

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And when I say "neither" at this point, I mean none of the three parties claimed so far.

I kind of expected this going into these softclaims, but I believe it's become obvious that scum claimed at least one BJP member (this assumes Vader is not scum, since he hasn't softclaimed). It's the biggest pool, so they haven't necessarily asked about available character claims yet. We'll need to bear that in mind as we start seeking full claims. Given that Vader hasn't claimed, he would be my priority, but until he's online, that's a dry well. I'm going to read through the DP after dinner and consider who to pressure among active players. Right now, I'm at least slightly townreading Banana, Owen and Earth.
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@ILikePie5
Can we get a time check?
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@Moozer325
Approximately 26 hours remaining 
Earth
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Where is Vader? 
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@Moozer325
Alright, I crashed yesterday after getting vaccinated, seems like the effects of it are hitting me harder this year.

We have roughly 14 hours left based on that last post from Pie and I don’t want to run this down to the wire so that, once again, we just lynch someone who isn’t around. I think it’s worth getting at least a couple of full claims before we make a decision, though, and given Vader’s absence and my townreads so far, it’s down to 5 people who could claim, including myself.

If I’m selecting partly based on activity, Moozer is the obvious first target since he hasn’t been that involved as of yet. I also noted that he was the first and only one to claim a character from Rayja Shaba after 2 people had claimed Lok Sahba characters (one former), and while I’m probably one of the bigger outliers in this game (along with Earth, since we’re both ministers), I suspect that scum are at least trying to hide in the crowd and would take the opportunity for these soft claims to give themselves the largest set of fake claims possible while avoiding CCs. Rayja Shaba is less than half the size of Lok Sahba, but it’s still a substantial chamber with lots of options, so I’d like to nail him down this DP.

VTL Moozer
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Official Vote Count:

Vader (1/5) - Lunatic
Casey (1/5) - Austin
Moozer (1/5) - Whiteflame

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@Earth
@Lunatic
@AustinL0926
@Casey_Risk
I also don’t want to split the votes in favor of my own choice at this point. If no one else chimes in, I’m fine getting a claim from Casey. That being said, I’d like to get thoughts from everyone who is able to provide them. We don’t have enough time left for people to dither.