Thoughts on the Trump assassination attempt

Author: TheUnderdog

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Tidycraft
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@Moozer325
but that number is still way to big.
How many people would you say is acceptable to die in America every year where you can sleep at night? Last I checked there were around 350 million Americans and millions of Americans die every year from non gun sources.
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@Tidycraft

How many people would you say is acceptable to die in America every year where you can sleep at night? Last I checked there were around 350 million Americans and millions of Americans die every year from non gun sources.
You’re basically saying that just because lots of people die, that means we shouldn’t try to do anything about it. 

The point is, this is a solvable problem, and so we should set out to solve it. I don’t see any problem with that.
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@Moozer325
I was asking for a number. If you think it should be zero, i doubt it will stop any significant amount of the millions of your Americans that die every year from non gun sources. It may even increase it. I don't call that solving anything.
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@Tidycraft
No one thinks it’s possible to get to zero gun violence. That’s plain impossible. The point is that we are trying to reach something better. I’ll sleep better at night when I know that we are at least working toward better gun violence.
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@TheUnderdog
Liar
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@Moozer325
I just don't understand what is so sacrosanct about abolishing a small proportion of gun deaths but allowing all sorts of other large proportions of non-taboo deaths such as fentanyl overdose and obesity. All of those could be solved much easier than abolishing gun deaths. I think your American media decides for you what kinds of deaths are socially acceptable and which ones are not with little regard for practicality.
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@Dr.Franklin
How?
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@Tidycraft
fentanyl is a problem so we try to  reduce the amount that’s available in the country. We regulate opiods and make them illegal. 

Guns are a problem so we do nothing to reduce the amount of guns available in the country. Republicans resist gun regulations and make access easier 
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@Tidycraft
Look, I never said that those issues didn’t matter. They all matter. I’m in favor of action to combat any issues that are killing people. They’re not really mutually exclusive.
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Like him or not, Trump is the main character and has plot armor. I’ve substantially revised my estimate of him winning again upwards, not because I think anyone will really be moved by this but because of the narrative. 

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@IwantRooseveltagain
Guns are a problem so we do nothing to reduce the amount of guns available in the country. 
Saying less guns = less gun crime is like saying if you have salt water and let it evaporate to some extent, then you will have less salt.  The salt isn't going away, and neither are the people that want to murder.

But what % of guns do you want to take away from the US among the law abiding?  Give me a %.
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@Moozer325
 The point is that we are trying to reach something better. I’ll sleep better at night when I know that we are at least working toward better gun violence.
I also would like it if immortality existed.  But unless I have a plan for it, then it doesn't make sense to bring up the problem.

What is your solution to gun homicide?
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@TheUnderdog
More extensive background checks, restrictions on bigger and fully automatic weapons, and maki bug gun owners more responsible for keeping their guns locked and safe. That one especially matters now because apparently the shooter stole his dad’s gun.

Also more enforcement on illegal weapon dealers.
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@Moozer325
More extensive background checks, restrictions on bigger and fully automatic weapons, and maki bug gun owners more responsible for keeping their guns locked and safe. 
Be specific.  "More extensive" is too general.

Also more enforcement on illegal weapon dealers.
Be more specific.

That one especially matters now because apparently the shooter stole his dad’s gun.
We will see if MAGA is more Pro Trump or Pro 2A.  I'm definitely more pro 2A.
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@TheUnderdog

Be specific.  "More extensive" is too general.
Just longer background checks and more resources and money towards illegal gun dealers. 

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@Moozer325
Just longer background checks
How many days longer?

more resources and money towards illegal gun dealers. 
How much more money?
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@TheUnderdog
Maybe 3-6 days longer for background checks.
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@Moozer325
Listen to that. 50,000 people are killed by gun violence each year! For context, about 30,000 to 60,000 people died in the American Revolutionary War. I know the times were different, and a lot less people were alive, but that number is still way to big. This is a huge problem that we need to solve.
Bruh 💀. Like I said. Over half of the 50k are due to suicide and gang violence. You can’t seriously be arguing that 0.0127% is significant enough to repeal the Second Amendment and ban guns, especially when you haven’t even considered the benefits that they bring. You’re operating from a negative standpoint. Look at the positives too
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Bullshit. We are the only advanced country with this kind of gun violence 
We’re the only country with more than 390 million guns. 
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@Moozer325
No one thinks it’s possible to get to zero gun violence. That’s plain impossible. The point is that we are trying to reach something better. I’ll sleep better at night when I know that we are at least working toward better gun violence.
Gun violence is always going to exist in a nation of 390 million guns. The only reason why you think 0.0127% is a problem is because the media fails to recount the thousands of instances where guns have saved lives.
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@Moozer325
More extensive background checks,
What does this mean?

restrictions on bigger and fully automatic weapons
Automatic weapons are already heavily regulated.

, and maki bug gun owners more responsible for keeping their guns locked and safe.
So now the government is gonna go door to door to check to see if you have a safe and are using it properly.

That one especially matters now because apparently the shooter stole his dad’s gun.

Also more enforcement on illegal weapon dealers.
Lol
TheUnderdog
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@Moozer325
Why 3-6?  Why not more or less?  And where is the evidence that it would actually reduce the homicide rate?

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@ILikePie5
The only reason why you think 0.0127% is a problem is because the media fails to recount the thousands of instances where guns have saved lives.
You’re telling me that guns have saved more than 50,000 lives per year? Because if not, then it’s a problem.

Over half of the 50k are due to suicide and gang violence. You can’t seriously be arguing that 0.0127% is significant enough to repeal the Second Amendment and ban guns
Show me these statistics. Also, gang violence gun killings can be prevented by the measures I’m proposing.
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@ILikePie5
We’re the only country with more than 390 million guns. 
But gun nuts say more guns make us safer

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@ILikePie5
So now the government is gonna go door to door to check to see if you have a safe and are using it properly.
Like the way the government goes door to door to make sure your furnace isn’t a safety hazard?

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@TheUnderdog
Why 3-6?  Why not more or less?  And where is the evidence that it would actually reduce the homicide rate?
The homicide rate in America is 40 times higher than the European Union. Why do you think that is?

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@TheUnderdog
@WyIted
What does this mean?
It means longer and better background checks.

Automatic weapons are already heavily regulated.
But I would prefer if they were regulated more. In my world, I would have them basically illegal for citizens expect in some situations.

So now the government is gonna go door to door to check to see if you have a safe and are using it properly.
No, there will be legal repercussions for not keeping it properly safe, and you will be legally responsible if someone in your house steals it and uses it to cause a shooting. That one is already starting to happen, which is nice.

And where is the evidence that it would actually reduce the homicide rate?
Almost every other country with better regulation has lower gun violence rates, and they significantly dropped after the policies were implemented.

Australia for example has a 28 day waiting period and much deeper background checks. They also have compulsory buybacks for full auto weapons, and best of all, they require you to be licensed to even carry a gun, especially concealed carry and bigger guns. 

From 1995 to 2006 (when these laws were put into place) the gun violence rate has dropped by 59% and suicides involving guns have dropped by 65%. Also, they have had ZERO mass shootings since. This is very significant.

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@Moozer325
You’re telling me that guns have saved more than 50,000 lives per year? Because if not, then it’s a problem.
They definitely have. Self-defense in most cases.

Show me these statistics.
Even Roosevelt agreed that it’s the right number.

Also, gang violence gun killings can be prevented by the measures I’m proposing.
No it can’t, because news flash: gangs obtain their guns illegally, and will continue to do so no matter how many restrictions you put. And even if they work, there are other weapons so they’ll still kill people.
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@Moozer325
Australia and new Zealand had property crimes significantly increase after gun bans. Nice try. It increased crime so we can assume the reduced gun deaths are mostly suicides and people killing intruders who deserve it
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@Moozer325
It means longer and better background checks.
Why do they need to be longer if the amount of information is finite.

But I would prefer if they were regulated more. In my world, I would have them basically illegal for citizens expect in some situations.
You don’t know what you’re talking about dude. If you walk up to a gun store right now, you cannot buy an automatic weapon.

No, there will be legal repercussions for not keeping it properly safe, and you will be legally responsible if someone in your house steals it and uses it to cause a shooting. That one is already starting to happen, which is nice.
And how are you going to prove that the person didn’t crack your safe code and steal it and kill people. You can’t legally be responsible for the actions of others. A gun is a tool. If a someone uses someone else’s car to ram 10 people and kill them, you can’t blame the original person.

Almost every other country with better regulation has lower gun violence rates, and they significantly dropped after the policies were implemented.

Australia for example has a 28 day waiting period and much deeper background checks. They also have compulsory buybacks for full auto weapons, and best of all, they require you to be licensed to even carry a gun, especially concealed carry and bigger guns.

From 1995 to 2006 (when these laws were put into place) the gun violence rate has dropped by 59% and suicides involving guns have dropped by 65%. Also, they have had ZERO mass shootings since. This is very significant.
Do they have 393 million guns within the nation? I don’t think so. This is called the false equivalency fallacy. You cannot compare nations that don’t have the same gun culture and pretend like it’s a great idea and will definitely work here. It’s lying trying to ban alcohol in Ireland because banning alcohol worked in a state in India.