UPick Mafia DP4

Author: AustinL0926

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ILikePie5
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@WyIted
So what exactly would a scum member need to protect themselves from prior to only being aware of a single vig shot that they themselves held?
Nice of you to leave off the neighborhood vig. You couldn’t know there aren’t more—and you said the same to me in DP2.

So using a bullet proof when I am widely town read to the point that town cooperated in giving me the vig shot means I would use the shirt immediately and not hold off
You admitted to using the shirt, so much so that you proclaimed you were the one targeted when Barney have been because of JoeBob’s commuter.

You were already explained to that a vig is the exact same thing as a lynch. Both are town directed kills. In fact a vig is superior because it's a town directed kill with zero negotiation with the scum team which often occurs during a lynch
I’m not even going to entertain this one. It’s actually laughable. Town directed kill. Ya right.

Pie also claimed the last scum was between me and earth so it makes no sense that he would fault me for digging earth.
You did me a favor for sure. But in doing so, you scum slipped by saying Earth didn’t want to shoot me, and then you shot Earth anyways when Earth as scum would have no problem shooting me. You fucked up, just admit it like your scum buddy. I know you are careless as scum, which is why I caught you DP1 in one game. 
WyIted
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You admitted to using the shirt, so much so that you proclaimed you were the one targeted when Barney have been because of JoeBob’s commuter.
I was. Literally everyone town read me so it's the most sensible target and if I was scum no way would I use a Bulletproof when every single member of town, town read me. I would obviously wait until they didn't. 

I know you are careless as scum, which is why I caught you DP1 in one game. 
I am careless but I waited until dp3 to vig instead of just immediately vigging you when I had an excuse to because I promised savant I would. 

I can't both be extremely reckless but simultaneously be very patient and cunning. It's one or the other and good luck convincing barney and lunatic I have the ability to be patient. 
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You town confirmed lunatic. You fucked up. 

Barney already said he would have been open to considering him as a target if you didn't and I was open to it. 

You were up against a lot because of the multiple failed NKs but you kind of deserved it for always picking the most obvious target which Barney perfectly predicted each time, even correctly predicting the moozer NK but moozrr fucked up and didn't put on the vest
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It really doesn’t make sense to me why you didn’t out this information then if you suspected him and Casey both as you indicated last day phase. Wylted not knowing why his action went through would have to assumed he was actively blocked or something. If he was scum and had a vig shot why hold onto it?
I did suspect him last DP, but a world did exist where he could’ve been roleblocked or “jailkept” as he claimed, so I didn’t think necessary. This is WIFOM but I could’ve just not claimed my passive ability and went with the flow.

What was the harm in revealing your passive ability though? I don't get why you would hide that part of your role.

Why not just create a case for using it on someone else (like me for example, since he suspected me).
I don’t know what roles/abilities scum have besides a flipped bulletproof/ascetic basically. 
?? 

At the end of last day phase, me and you were assuredly talking about how we would come into this day phase lynching wylted. At that point I was all but sure he was scum. He actually scum read me too, until you changed his mind towards the end of the day phase. My question is, why would he target earth over me if he was actually scum? If he was scum he knew leaving me alive was a liability based on my EOD stance in dp3. Earth was just as likely to misvig if he even vigged at all. 

I should have been killed last night, the only reason I am alive now is if someone wanted to use me to get a mislynch. Earth only ever indicated wanting to use the vig kill on you, and outside of that he was only lynching casey last day phase. With you convincing wylted I was town last day phase, his action actually makes sense here as town. If he was scum I would be dead. 

Seems if he was scum he would have used it and just justified why he was wrong about it, like he is doing with earth. He could have done that same thing last day phase and just killed me instead. Why go through the whole process of fake being roleblocked at all?
He could’ve, but it’s WIFOM and Wylted is illogical to begin with. It makes sense that he would bus his partner to gain the town cred that he used his Vig shot and there was none remaining. He ran with that all of last DP.  Also remember that Moozer still had 3 abilities including a roleblocker and rolestopper.
I think wylted can be chaotic, and maybe a bit rash, but I don't think he is illogical. I think he is actually a very decent mafia player when he has his head in the game. He is just as likely to do something stupid because he acted without thinking, but the kind of decision making you are implying here doesn't sound like something scum wylted does at all. And usually wylted admits when he did something stupid because he overlooked a thing, or didn't think of a thing. Also I don't get your point with the moozer thing, moozer never claimed to have blocked him. Wylteds confusion at why his vig didn't work on casey seems 100% legit to me. 

So if your trying to tell me that you think earth was wylteds night kill target that earth had to have used his big shot on moozer who was an innocent townie and confirmed dp3. Why on ewould earth do that lol
No, you’re misunderstanding. Wylted never used his own vig shot on Casey, so he had it left and used it on Earth. 
I already know this, wylted has already admitted to vigging earth. I was confused what you were saying, I thought you were saying he used the night kill on earth, and earth uesd the vig on moozer for some reason. 

Am I wrong or missing something here?

1. Pie is saying we should suspect Wylted for lying about his role, when our has added something about his role each day phase now. If he’s covering information for a not yet used role that’s fine, but it’s hypocrital of him to tell us to sus Wylted for doing the same.
Hiding my passive ability (which I didn’t even have to claim) vs never even trying to use the cop ability as a townie and lying by claiming a perma lynchproof to take the vig shot is different imo.
Its literally the exact same thing. Wylted hid from claiming his full rull until today, and you accused him of lying. The difference is I don't actually know what benefit you provided us by hiding your role. It at least makes sense for him to bait being a vanilla if he still had a sensor ability, assuming he was town. Knowing how many killing actions were used doesn't seem nearly as useful to hide. 

2. Do you think a role like mine would also exist along side a role that clarifies actions passively as killing? Also shouldn’t that have made pie suspect me when I claimed this role early day phase 2? Why didn’t he mention his role along side mine then? What harm was there to do it?
Tbh I didn’t want to get in a fight with you and derail the entire DP after getting into one with Savant. So I kept my mouth shut about this.
So did you just assume I was town then? Why didn't my role make you scum read me then?

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@ILikePie5
Scumslip #2. He had no way of knowing that he was sharing to two townies unless he was scum.
He  knows they are town now, based on flips. This is a bit manipulative. 
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I want scum twa.s to take note and this is why I hate not co trolling the scum chat. So many people just pick the obvious target, when I specifically look at social dynamics and see if I can manipulate from a higher plane. I would have NKed in the following order

Np 1- lunatic
Np2- moozer 
Np3 barney

You literally knew for a fact that moozer was getting confirmed and you legit waited to kill him until he was the most obvious doctor target and barney almost blocked you again if moozer wasn't being an idiot
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Wylted hid from claiming his full rull until today,
I mentioned It I think yesterday when pie said you had the only investigate role
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I want to point out the arrogance also of allowing the 3 best town members to live until the end.  I am not saying I am incapable of that arrogance but you honestly had a better chance of convincing moozer to mislynch that to get lunatic or barney to make a huge mistake. 
ILikePie5
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?? 

At the end of last day phase, me and you were assuredly talking about how we would come into this day phase lynching wylted. At that point I was all but sure he was scum. He actually scum read me too, until you changed his mind towards the end of the day phase. My question is, why would he target earth over me if he was actually scum? If he was scum he knew leaving me alive was a liability based on my EOD stance in dp3. Earth was just as likely to misvig if he even vigged at all. 
The one reason is that by shooting you, he outs as scum cause I townread you and Barney townread you. Then we would only need to convince Earth to vote Wylted. Here he can use “muh POE” even though Earth’s action in vetoing the NK on me shows he’s Town.

I should have been killed last night, the only reason I am alive now is if someone wanted to use me to get a mislynch. Earth only ever indicated wanting to use the vig kill on you, and outside of that he was only lynching casey last day phase. With you convincing wylted I was town last day phase, his action actually makes sense here as town. If he was scum I would be dead
Yes and that’s what you’re doing by wanting to lynch me. You’re also forgetting that by Vig shotting you, he would basically out himself as scum cause you were essentially town confirmed by me and Barney and Wylted was already on the chopping block.

I think wylted can be chaotic, and maybe a bit rash, but I don't think he is illogical. I think he is actually a very decent mafia player when he has his head in the game. He is just as likely to do something stupid because he acted without thinking, but the kind of decision making you are implying here doesn't sound like something scum wylted does at all. And usually wylted admits when he did something stupid because he overlooked a thing, or didn't think of a thing. Also I don't get your point with the moozer thing, moozer never claimed to have blocked him. Wylteds confusion at why his vig didn't work on casey seems 100% legit to me.
Let me elaborate. Scum Wylted has 2 shots: NK and Vigilante. One of them has to go to Moozer because he’s mod confirmed and has abilities that could hinder the NK in the future. The other shot is still left. Does he kill Lunatic or Barney and out himself as scum, or kill Earth even though Earth’s action was townie. The Vig “not working on Casey” isn’t genuine surprise if he already knew that it wasn’t going to work. If your gut says he’s telling the truth fine, but a serial liar is going to lie over and over again.

I already know this, wylted has already admitted to vigging earth. I was confused what you were saying, I thought you were saying he used the night kill on earth, and earth uesd the vig on moozer for some reason.
No you misunderstood.

It’s literally the exact same thing. Wylted hid from claiming his full rull until today, and you accused him of lying. The difference is I don't actually know what benefit you provided us by hiding your role. It at least makes sense for him to bait being a vanilla if he still had a sensor ability, assuming he was town. Knowing how many killing actions were used doesn't seem nearly as useful to hide.
I disagree. Wylted knowingly claimed Perma Lynchproof when he was 1x. He didn’t even use his supposed cop power. What town reason exists to not use the Cop power? My actions are my actions. I chose to not disclaim it ahead of time, but I could’ve just chose not mention it. I’m being honest, and I’ve been honest this entire game.

So did you just assume I was town then? Why didn't my role make you scum read me then?
When you claimed your role, I did assume you were town. You barely talked DP2, and I still townread you enough that I watched you. Your role is far more investigative than mine. Also Wylted had a lynchproof and I had a magistrate which are contradictory. It’s not inconceivable that you were town as well because your role is sort of contradictory to mine as well. 

He  knows they are town now, based on flips. This is a bit manipulative.
Right now he does, but before he didn’t. 
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There are now two objective truths in the game now:

1) Wylted shot Earth after Earth did not want to shoot me (Scum Earth from Wylted’s perspective has no reason not to agree to NK Pie)

2) Wylted claimed to have a Cop ability but in 3 days of time, never used it once. What town reason exists for that? He could’ve asked people to place a vote on him at any point in 216 hours to investigate them.
ILikePie5
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What even is Wylted’s argument for me being scum? There’s only one thing: POE. Nothing more, nothing else. Wylted has lied about a million things in this game, except for lying about being scum.
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It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever 
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Okay I want to take my interaction with pie out of the puzzle for a moment, and look at facts and be as objective as possible here.

I will analyze what I think scum wylted and pie would do, based on motive, incentive, player stances at the time, etc..

DP1, and the Savant mislynch: The savant mislynch is something I from the beginning never thought was the strongest lynch in the game. Unfortunately I was a bit busy dp1 and couldn't really contribute much in the way I wanted, so I can't be too judgeful of this one. 

Town Pie: To be fair to pie, I can see pie pursuing this lynch as town too. The reasoning in my opinion was bad, but pie tends to have a very objective view of mafia, in that he sees something as logical or illogical, he will pursue that logic unashamedly. In this case it was "The vote thief is anti town" logic. I have seen him use the same logic about anti town roles in the past, so this is why I was excusing pie for this logic initially. Everyone knows how pie acts with millers, despite the fact that they have commonly been mislynched as town. To pie, negative utility = needs to be lynched. The town argument is that no one else including myself had another lead and he was one of the few people causing activity that day phase, if he was wrong well then "Where were you with your other 'better' lead"?

Scum Pie: If pie is scum, he can just use the logic "I would have done this as town" and he'd probably be right too. This playstyle pie uses allows him to get mis-lynches that he can always justify that way. Scum pie can always use this logic to get mislynches and the next day just say "I was wrong, I fvcked up, but I don't see the mod doing this" etc therefor passing the blame to the mod. Which again, he would also do as town.

Town Wylted: When wylted voted, we were running low on time, so it was between that and a no lynch. He also had some role-related reasons to believe savant was scum since he felt vote thief was a semi counter to his role 

Scum Wylted: Wylted did flip flop on this lynch, in post 542 told savant he felt town. Instantly puts blame on pie at the end of the day phase, despite joining him on the lynch, which is pretty hypocritical. It's one of the reasons I started in on people for condemning the wagon-starter despite having also joined in on the wagon. Seems like a scum motivated move to join a mislynch and try to avoid blame for partaking of it.

DP2 and the joebob mislynch: I can't be too judgeful of this one either, I did board the lynch buying into the scum slip logic, however, in hindsight it is kind of wierd that we took joebob out by affiliation when we would have known whether the whole logic fell apart via moozer being confirmed in one day phase. It's almost like this was another day phase where we waited til last minute and were forced into deciding one way because the whole conversation thus far was about this supposed scum slip.


Town Wylted: Being wrong isn't a sin, and to be fair it was really really weird that a commute was mentioned when joebob had the only other ability that allowed commuting. In the end even I took this bait. Bad luck for moozer I guess, but we all definitely invested too much into that train of thought. I will say the presentation wylted made and the case he had, it felt like a genuine with hunt. I felt that he actually believed this was the scum team at the time. He was pretty passionate, and I feel like scum would be more wary about casting absolute certainty like this knowing how it would look if they were wrong. 

Scum Wylted: Scum wylted could have just pursued this logic knowing it was a safe mislynch, and maybe he over exagerated how "confirmed" he felt this mislynch was. It was definitely easier than the savant mislynch to acheive due to the nature of the "slip" and he could easily pass of guilt over being wrong to this being a "noob" who fvcked up.

Town Pie: Pie did have casey in his POE early in this day phase, as of post 55 (though I suppose he could have been planning a bus since early).

Scum pie: Pie looked good this day phase with the magistrate ability. It's only now, knowing that it wasn't strictly a magistrate, that this ability could just have easily been a scum role that we question it. Also it seems he literally only used this role to confirm himself. While this isn't a role that has a ton of town utility, the only town utility I can see him using this role on me for is if he was worried I would be a mislynch and he firmly believed I was town. He had no reason to think I was town at this point, and even had placed me null from town read at the end of the previous day phase based on my activity. So this role was used literally just to confirm himself.  Anyways, pie knew he would get flack in this day phase for being wrong on the savant lynch and pressing it so hard, and he did get some pressure. pie came back to the day phase several pages after wylted points out the slip, but boards the logic immediately, despite scum reading wylted earlier (for much of the same reasons he is still pursuing this phase). Overall this mislynch does a lot more for pie than it does for wylted IMO, because Pie already suspected wylted, so in the case where joebob flips town, its more ammo for his arsenal. Also this mislynch largely took pressure off himself from the savant mislynch. 

The Night Kills: For the sake of argument, we are going to assume that earth was the vig kill, and moozer was the night kill. No one here seems to object that, and moozer only makes sense as a night kill, being confirmed. So we just have to look at whether the vig was town owned, or scum owned, and analyze who had more motive to shoot who as either affiliation.

Town Wylted: So if wylted is town here, then we are to assume he is being 100% honest with what he claims he did. In this case, he claims he shot earth due to POE. This lines up with where wylted was at towards the end of DP3. He had initially posited I was scum and pursuing that end until pie had convinced him otherwise. post 105  indicated where he switched from scum reading me to earth. I was indicating having scum read wylted at this point, so if he is scum, why on earth does he leave me alive in MYLO? This is what gives him the most town cred imo, because he chose to act in what he thought was towns best interest by eliminating POE, rather than survival. Because at that point I was dead set on lynching Wylted, was even going as far as to type endgame comments to him, like "GG" and telling him he played well, etc.

Scum Wylted: You can argue the earth kill was scummy based on his role, and being "technically" confirmed, but at the time I was positing that there could be a scum mason recruiter, and even pie had pointed out austin was likely if anyone was, to put this type of role on the scum team. Ultimately the only thing townier he could have done here was waived the vig kill. Moozer would have been an objectively easy decision no matter who is scum in this scenario, based on being confirmed town. No matter who is scum here, you want to enter LYLO with as many mislynch oppertunities as possible.

Town pie: Same logic with wylted being scum, moozer was an objective kill that doesn't paint anyone as being more likely than the other.

Scum pie: Scum pie at the end of the day phase thought he had this game locked down. If I didn't change my mind, and was still on board to lynch wylted as I was at the end, there is no way he kills me. I think scum pie chooses the safer kill in moozer and banks on being able to convince me and barney to get the mislynch on wylted. Wylted, on paper seems like a good mislynch target. It's only when adding it up in the face of everything else, where it starts to not make sense.

Ultimately:

From my perspective the only thing that makes sense for me being alive and wylted being scum, is if he big brained the logic that I would switch to being suspect of pie based on still being alive. That requires a lot of respect on wylteds scum game, and if he is actually scum then he definitely deserves props for that. But leaving me alive is way too much of a gamble for wylted based on EOD lunatic. I see wylted as clever enough to do it, don't get me wrong, but if he had the game this close to winning it doesn't make sense to risk it. And it lines up perfectly with where he was at the end of the last day phase. No flip flops or  crazy justifications neccesary to explain his actions. Scum are more likely to go for the oppertunistic kill here every time than the risky one. There is just no way I see wylted leaving me alive.

I think I am willing to die on this hill. If I am wrong, I guess I have to apologize to pie in the endgame, but that would also be a massive scum respect play by wylted, and I'll never underestimate wylted again in the future if he is actually scum here. 

But the night kills and mislynches indicate to me that it is more likely pie than wylted.
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The one reason is that by shooting you, he outs as scum cause I townread you and Barney townread you. Then we would only need to convince Earth to vote Wylted. Here he can use “muh POE” even though Earth’s action in vetoing the NK on me shows he’s Town.
This is all I read, I will read more later but is absurd that you think I would be scum read for scum reading lunatic. 

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I think I am pretty much decided here. Read through my analysis, tell me what you think. I just don't see how I am alive right now if wylted is scum. Unless he was maybe just ultra paranoid I would have another vest from you this day phase. We will need your vote to lynch pie though. If you think I am missing something I am open to hearing it. 
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@Lunatic
Can you please answer my question in Post #70. Everything else is heresay or WIFOM. Also, Wylted wouldn’t keep you alive? You think I would?

It’s either leaving you alive or outting as scum.

I just can’t anymore. You’re literally letting your ego get to this at this point. Fuckin asshole. Rather lose to Wylted than Pie. Boo hoo. Fuck off.
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The one reason is that by shooting you, he outs as scum cause I townread you and Barney townread you. Then we would only need to convince Earth to vote Wylted. Here he can use “muh POE” even though Earth’s action in vetoing the NK on me shows he’s Town.
He is pretty much using that argument already with the earth vig though. If it was just as scummy either way, why not just eliminate the bigger threat?

Yes and that’s what you’re doing by wanting to lynch me. You’re also forgetting that by Vig shotting you, he would basically out himself as scum cause you were essentially town confirmed by me and Barney and Wylted was already on the chopping block.
By vigging me, he would have left earth alive in MYLO. Earth has been pretty open about wanting you dead, and even said he was going to vig you at the start of last day phase. In his POV he would have a way easier time getting a mislynch on you as scum by leaving earth alive here.

Let me elaborate. Scum Wylted has 2 shots: NK and Vigilante. One of them has to go to Moozer because he’s mod confirmed and has abilities that could hinder the NK in the future. The other shot is still left. Does he kill Lunatic or Barney and out himself as scum, or kill Earth even though Earth’s action was townie. The Vig “not working on Casey” isn’t genuine surprise if he already knew that it wasn’t going to work. If your gut says he’s telling the truth fine, but a serial liar is going to lie over and over again.
Where this logic falls apart, is that if he's scum with control of the vig kill, he can use it on almost any townie he wants to and can justify it. He had me in his scum POE all last day phase, and was only convinced otherwise by you at the end. Why even bother letting himself be convinced, when he can just get rid of me, who was practically GG'ing him at the end there where it would have seemed obvious I hammer him in a lylo situation, where he could just kill me and substantiate it the same way he was last day phase.

It’s literally the exact same thing. Wylted hid from claiming his full rull until today, and you accused him of lying. The difference is I don't actually know what benefit you provided us by hiding your role. It at least makes sense for him to bait being a vanilla if he still had a sensor ability, assuming he was town. Knowing how many killing actions were used doesn't seem nearly as useful to hide.
I disagree. Wylted knowingly claimed Perma Lynchproof when he was 1x. He didn’t even use his supposed cop power. What town reason exists to not use the Cop power? My actions are my actions. I chose to not disclaim it ahead of time, but I could’ve just chose not mention it. I’m being honest, and I’ve been honest this entire game.
Wylted "cop power" is actually a sensor, and it sounds like he can't use it until he is lynched. He was never lynched, how could he use this ability? Your excuse for not outing your role is basically "my actions are my actions" essentially "it is what it is".

If you aren't going to give a town reason for doing this, all I have left is to assume you had a scum reason for doing this. Which is that my ability is basically a CC to that, and as you pointed out, you didn't want to claim it because you thought it would distract the day phase. But this would have indicated you thought I was town confirmed, and if you virtually counter claim me with your role, you have no reason to town confirm me. It makes no sense that I would be in your town POE except that you wanted to use me to mislynch wylted in LYLO. If you arent able to provide a town reason for not outing this role, I have only to assume the scum motivations.  Or that the role is in fact made up.

So did you just assume I was town then? Why didn't my role make you scum read me then?
When you claimed your role, I did assume you were town. You barely talked DP2, and I still townread you enough that I watched you. Your role is far more investigative than mine. Also Wylted had a lynchproof and I had a magistrate which are contradictory. It’s not inconceivable that you were town as well because your role is sort of contradictory to mine as well. 
Your role just adds clarification to my role, and it doesn't make sense for town to have all that information. My role already forced casey into having to scum lock a passive role. Why does town need two roles like this one that clarifies killing actions? Further why did you think there wouldn't be multiple voting utility roles in the day phase, but thought there would be multiple action defining ones???

He  knows they are town now, based on flips. This is a bit manipulative.
Right now he does, but before he didn’t. 
It was clear to me he wasn't saying he knew they were town when he revealed info to him, but is claiming that we know they are town then. I just think this point was a little desperate. 
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@ILikePie5
There are now two objective truths in the game now:

1) Wylted shot Earth after Earth did not want to shoot me (Scum Earth from Wylted’s perspective has no reason not to agree to NK Pie)
This is my whole point on why wylted probably isn't scum though. Earth had indicated he would vig shot you already, and if wylted was scum, why would he go into MYLO with both people indicating that they were wanting him dead in dp3? Me and you were both like deadset he was the last scum with casey. There's no universe scum wylted leaves me alive, when he could have easily justified killing me and tried to use earth to mislynch you. Earth, who we know, already wanted to vig you because he had publicly stated that he would.

2) Wylted claimed to have a Cop ability but in 3 days of time, never used it once. What town reason exists for that? He could’ve asked people to place a vote on him at any point in 216 hours to investigate them.
Are you purposefully misunderstanding wylteds role? Or do you just not actually understand he needs to be lynched in order to sensor someone on his lynch?
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@WyIted
Can you please clarify how your "cop" investigation works? It seems me and pie have a difference in understanding how the mechanics of it work. 
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@Lunatic
You are slightly off. In order for me to use the cop ability, somebody needs to be on my lynch wagon at the end of the DP.  I don't have to be lynched, and the ability does not work if I am dead
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@Lunatic
Honestly, your analysis is what I care about most. For starters, if we hypothetically VNTL today, tomorrow it will be the three of you with no new intel.
I'll read your posts tonight when I'm off from work (doing it during the work day, would not give a  fair assessment to everything).
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I am going to log off for a while any more questions in the next few minutes I will answer
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@WyIted
I am going to log off for a while any more questions in the next few minutes I will answer
Okay so you couldn't have used it because all three day phase ended without one person on your wagon. Any reason you didn't advocate at least one person ending on your wagon to use this ability earlier?
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@Lunatic
He is pretty much using that argument already with the earth vig though. If it was just as scummy either way, why not just eliminate the bigger threat?
One is objectively more scummy than the other. Would Wylted be able to convince Barney to vote for Earth after Wylted shot you? Or would he be able to convince you to vote me, which is what he’s doing right now?

By vigging me, he would have left earth alive in MYLO. Earth has been pretty open about wanting you dead, and even said he was going to vig you at the start of last day phase. In his POV he would have a way easier time getting a mislynch on you as scum by leaving earth alive here.
But you’re forgetting that Earth changed his mind per Wylted’s own words. Why would scum Earth not shoot Pie? Wylted didn’t even thing about this.

Where this logic falls apart, is that if he's scum with control of the vig kill, he can use it on almost any townie he wants to and can justify it. He had me in his scum POE all last day phase, and was only convinced otherwise by you at the end. Why even bother letting himself be convinced, when he can just get rid of me, who was practically GG'ing him at the end there where it would have seemed obvious I hammer him in a lylo situation, where he could just kill me and substantiate it the same way he was last day phase.
Then he would 100% get lynched. Didn’t we have a conversation that involved this exact question. We did So why didn’t he shoot you? He’d be scumread instantly. Why shoot the only remaining people? He wouldn’t be scumread.

Wylted "cop power" is actually a sensor, and it sounds like he can't use it until he is lynched. He was never lynched, how could he use this ability?
How can he use a cop power if he’s lynched. That’s not how he described it. He said that at the end of the DP, if there are any votes on him, he can choose to investigate them. He didn’t do that DP1 cause of lynchproof. Fine. But he didn’t do it DP2 or DP3 either. Why? 


Your excuse for not outing your role is basically "my actions are my actions" essentially "it is what it is".
I knew I should’ve kept my mouth shut cause of bullshit like this.

If you aren't going to give a town reason for doing this, all I have left is to assume you had a scum reason for doing this. Which is that my ability is basically a CC to that, and as you pointed out, you didn't want to claim it because you thought it would distract the day phase. But this would have indicated you thought I was town confirmed, and if you virtually counter claim me with your role, you have no reason to town confirm me. It makes no sense that I would be in your town POE except that you wanted to use me to mislynch wylted in LYLO. If you arent able to provide a town reason for not outing this role, I have only to assume the scum motivations.  Or that the role is in fact made up.
Then why would I claim it. Honesty going to get me lynched and dishonesty going to win the game for Wylted. 

Your role just adds clarification to my role, and it doesn't make sense for town to have all that information. My role already forced casey into having to scum lock a passive role. Why does town need two roles like this one that clarifies killing actions? Further why did you think there wouldn't be multiple voting utility roles in the day phase, but thought there would be multiple action defining ones???
I don’t know why Austin added the role. Maybe scum has some role that counterbalances. I townread you cause your investigative roles are far more widespread. I scumread Wylted for lying about his role since the beginning of the day. 
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@Lunatic
yes, dp1 I could not be voted for. dp2 i didn't think the lynch would go through if I pulled a vote away. DP3 my ability was known and nobody gave a shit, but it took 5 votes to lynch casey anyway, so it was very unlikely to happen.

We also have the added problem of me not sure if I am in the neighbor chat with scum or not, and me just assuming i am unlikely to get a scum vote on me, and if I do get a chance to confirm somebody I am likely dead anyway. Also, my bad. Maybe I should have advocated harder, but I also thought that it would be pretty obvious what I can do if I am like please vote me.

I did intend to get earth to vote me prior to the end of a few of these votes, but they happened very late into the dp and so it wasn't easy to do. If I am being honest it is also a bit awkward in the neighbor chat to make a request that says I don't trust him. More awkward then in game, which may be why moozer essentially disappeared from the chat when I behaved aggressively towards him in the DP
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@Barney
Honestly, your analysis is what I care about most. For starters, if we hypothetically VNTL today, tomorrow it will be the three of you with no new intel.
I'll read your posts tonight when I'm off from work (doing it during the work day, would not give a  fair assessment to everything).
Feel free to check me on my logic, because I tend to get a bit tunnely when I feel I have something. 

The two major things hanging me up on pie are these two things:

1. It makes no conceivable sense for wylted to not have vigged me over earth. If he knew he was going into lylo and only needed one more mislynch, earth would have helped him lynch pie. I was deadset that wylted was scum last day phase. Wylted had scum read me until right towards the end when pie convinced him I was town. Wylted could have just as easily killed me and justified the kill, and then used earth to get an easy mislynch on pie, if he was scum and pie was town. Where on the other hand pie would have been much more likely to keep me alive to kill wylted, based on where I was at at the end of the day phase.

2. Pie's passive ability makes no sense to me being town. It essentially functions like my role, but it just adds a bunch of extra information to it. Why does town need all that information? Why did pie hide that part of his role until dp4? When I asked him his answer was basically "I did what I did" or to downplay it, but it really doesn't make sense imo to hide that part of his role. It's not like it increases his threat to scum severely, he already had basically used an ability that was suppose to "town confirm" him with his magistrate ability. Which I am now questioning is a magistrate. It doesn't publicly announce that the person using it is town, it could just as easily been used to prevent scum from being mislynched. Its a role that functions as a way to give mafia some role confirmation though, and I don't think it's actual title is magistrate. 

Anyways, if there is something I am missing on wylted feel free to point it out. I am open to feedback and potentially being wrong here, but yeah those are my two biggest hang ups with pie. 
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Why would scum Earth not shoot Pie? Wylted didn’t even thing about this
Yes I did and I already gave my reasoning
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@Lunatic
This is my whole point on why wylted probably isn't scum though. Earth had indicated he would vig shot you already, and if wylted was scum, why would he go into MYLO with both people indicating that they were wanting him dead in dp3?
What? Okay let’s say Wylted is town. Then he is telling the truth about Earth not wanting to shoot me right? In that case why shoot Earth over Pie? Earth backed off last second—the only logical explanation for this is that he thought Wylted was scum and Pie was town, which is why he vetoed the shot. There is no other explanation. If there is, please let me know.

Me and you were both like deadset he was the last scum with casey. There's no universe scum wylted leaves me alive, when he could have easily justified killing me and tried to use earth to mislynch you. Earth, who we know, already wanted to vig you because he had publicly stated that he would.
He can’t justify killing you if Pie and Barney already know you’re town. But if he kills Earth, well then that leaves the door open to Pie being scum. 

Are you purposefully misunderstanding wylteds role? Or do you just not actually understand he needs to be lynched in order to sensor someone on his lynch?
I’m describing Wylted’s role as he said. He never said he had to be lynched to used it. He just said there have to be votes on him at the end of the DP to use it. Even then, what utility does a sensor provide if Wylted isn’t even say his results after death.
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Then why would I claim it. Honesty going to get me lynched and dishonesty going to win the game for Wylted
I mean I made the mistake of overlooking the word 1x and claimed vanillaized the next day for fun and reasons already stated, but was honest with earth and moozer in the chat so I don't see it as lying because there was a good chance at least one of tthose 2 were town and could come to my rescue when i ultimately admitted to what I did. I also lied to svant that I would vig pie DP1. Lies aren't neccessarily anti town and those sorts of lies are no big deal. I repeat I fucked up reading my role as 1x, it was not a lie when I said it.



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@Lunatic
It should also be noted it looked like casey was getting lynched without pie claiming to have watched the attempted NK. As town if i watched somebody commit an NK and they looked like they were getting lynched, I would just keep it to myself. It wasn't outted to secure a lynch but get town confirmation