I’m an atheist, but willing to be convinced otherwise

Author: Moozer325
Atheism

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#61
RaymondSheen
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@Moozer325
When I'm reading what your [Deb-8-a-bull] writing, my head automatically makes you sound like gollum for some reason.
Interesting comparison. I hear the ocean when I read it. 

#62
RaymondSheen
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@3RU7AL
and we know this how ?
He wrote it in a book. Think of a science book but more accurate. Think of a cave painting or pottery shards and bone fragments, but better. 

#63
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@RaymondSheen
He wrote it in a book.
Who is he and which book did he write? Are you saying God wrote the Bible?
#64
FLRW
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@Moozer325

Remember that Humans are not morally superior.
#65
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@Best.Korea

Prayer Works
#66
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@baggins
He is Jehovah and yes he wrote the book. (2 peter 1:20)
#67
3RU7AL
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@RaymondSheen
He wrote it in a book. Think of a science book but more accurate. Think of a cave painting or pottery shards and bone fragments, but better. 
does this god of yours have a y chromosome ?

also

how do we know which book is written by the real god(s)

and which book is written by a fake god(s) ?


there are a lot of holy books
#68
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@3RU7AL
How do I know Gandalf did not write Lord of the Rings?
#69
RaymondSheen
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@3RU7AL
does this god of yours have a y chromosome ?
No. I'm going to assume that he doesn't. Jehovah is a spirit being. Wind, breath and mental inclination are also translated spirit, from, for example, the Greek word pneuma (pneumatic, pneumonia) which means invisible active force. Do those things have chromosomes? The thing is, we don't know if spirit beings (angels, seraphs, cherubs, demons) are simply unseen to us or some sort of being that we just can't see with the naked eye, like germs, viruses, pathogens, methanol and ethanol fire.

how do we know which book is written by the real god(s)
Like I did. Investigate them. 

and which book is written by a fake god(s) ?
No gods are fake. Most sacred and quasi-sacred texts don't claim and in fact deny divine inspiration. Dhammapada, Apocrypha, Analects, Quran, Pirke Avot, Nihongi, Kojiki, Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu for example. Arguably the Bhagavad Gita, but that's a whole other can of proverbial worms. 


 
#70
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@Moozer325
Not familiar with Alex O’Connor. What are his bonafides, his “claim to fame”? I watched a debate between William Lane Craig and Sean Carroll and came away very impressed with Carroll, for what it’s worth. And he seems like a genuinely nice guy.

#71
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@baggins
Because JRR Tolkien did?

How do I know Dumbledore isn't a wizard of the Grey order who rides a white steed named Shadowfax? By reading the fucking books and doing some quick research. 

#72
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@FLRW
Morally superior to what? Honey Badgers? 
#73
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@RaymondSheen

#74
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@FLRW
Wow. Time flies. Little Alex has grown up. Our little Cosmic Skeptic has become a man. 
#75
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@Moozer325
Have you looked at other philosophies besides modern ones?
Because they have been looking at this question (gods existance) for literally over 2,000 years...

Sure! You can adhere to the philosophy behind science, but have you looked at the other ones?

#76
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@3RU7AL
The Christian religion - at least the Reformed part of that religion says it is impossible for someone to become a true Christian. For me, that is one of the strongest arguments for the existence of the Christian God. We say that people only become Christians because God reveals himself to them by revelation. Hence, it is impossible to prove his existence. 
i'm not sure how this could be considered a "strong argument" for christianity specifically

the question of "god(s) or not god(s)" is one thing

the question of "why this flavor of religion and not one of the thousands of other religions" is a completely different question
I'm sure you don't know how this is a strong argument for Christianity.  But that in some ways proves my point. You are not a Christian. You can't become a Christian. You won't become a Christian by yourself. I have made the claim before. Prove me wrong. Become a Christian, convince me you are one and not just pretending. Do so for a sustained period of time. I dare you. But I know you won't take up the dare. You can't even if you wanted to prove me wrong, since there is more going on that you choose to admit. 

If people could just become Christians, then the entire point of the gospel is nonsense.  Yes, some people say they choose to become Christians. I know that people say that. But to become a Christian is not a choice. that's missing the point of what is going on. Many people don't get this.  Christians and non-Christians. Our culture plays into this a lot.  In some respects it's the difference between a marriage by love in the West v a marriage of arrangement in the East. Christianity is more an arranged marriage. But given Christianity's trend towards individualism in the West, many don't realise where the horse is and where the cart is. This is why I use this challenge. And why so far the lack of people proves my point. 

Yes the question of God's existence and the question of which god are two different questions.  For me and for millions if not billions the first question is already answered. The second one is much more provocative. Many of course - have never got through the first question. Perhaps that is you. But please keep searching. When you catch up- then we can discuss the second question. After all, why would I bother discussing which god is right - if you don't believe any god exists? 
#77
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@3RU7AL
And peer pressure.

Or a hot Christian babe.

Other sexual preferences or faiths accepted. 
#78
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@Moozer325
Out of curiosity, what 'do you believe in?
Objective morality for instance?
The importance of 'good?
That it is wrong to kill or torture others?

If so, why?
#79
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@Lemming
If there is no objective morality, there is no morality.

"Cause god said so" is an appeal to authority. If god is omnipotent it is wise practical advise but not an argument... or to put it another way the assertion is "might makes right" and therefore since he is the mightiest he is right.

Now an omniscient and infinitely wise god would be able to explain why he's right subject to the limitations of limited beings, but an objective truth you are too stupid to understand is still objective.
#80
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Well, just because I can't say everyone likes/should like/should eat pizza,
Doesn't mean everyone does such,
Works as a rule of thumb though, with some people.
Certainly taste still exists.
(Practically speaking and ignoring certain ideas of nihilism)

Well, if when one says morality, they are speaking of Gods morality,
God infusing everything, being everything, effecting everything or whatever,
It's practical enough, and the appeal to authority becomes a bit as appeal to gravity.
Course gravity isn't 'everyw- Well maybe it is.
But people tend to appeal to something, sun is pretty big, lot of force,
God in many claims is pretty big, lot of force.

Certainly people have long had questions of God and existence,
See Job in the Bible,
. . .

Still, my intention with the Out of curiosity questions,
Is I think at times, that it is easier to convince someone,
If you know something about them and their beliefs.
Also I was considering going the Dostoevsky, Kierkegard route in convincement,
Not that I hold such views myself, but I find them interesting,
And suggesting them to someone else, forces me to look at them myself.
#81
3RU7AL
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@Tradesecret
After all, why would I bother discussing which god is right - if you don't believe any god exists? 
tons of "god(s)" "exist"

your argument for "revelation" is simply an argument for GNOSIS
#82
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If there is no objective morality, there is no morality.
does your holy book explain if it is objectively moral for patents to expire after 20 years ?
#83
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@3RU7AL
I don't have a holy book.
#84
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I don't have a holy book.

how do you distinguish objective-moral-claims from subjective-moral-claims ?
#85
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@3RU7AL
I don't have a holy book.
how do you distinguish objective-moral-claims from subjective-moral-claims ?
By having the values and the subject specified in the derivation of the principles and following the rules of logic when deriving.

"Icecream is good" may be a subjective assertion (an assertion that is malformed due to missing context), but "ADOL values ice-cream" is not.

When a value is common (proven by admission or argument) among a group of sapients it is objective in the context of that group.

There is no point in asserting morality based on values that others may not have and deny having. It is no different from making rules against ice-cream flavors. You might get away with it if you've got a gun; but that doesn't mean you're objectively right and as I said if you're not objectively right you're not right in any meaningful sense.
#86
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@ADreamOfLiberty
among a group of sapients it is objective in the context of that group.
that's called "intersubjective"
#87
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@3RU7AL
After all, why would I bother discussing which god is right - if you don't believe any god exists? 
tons of "god(s)" "exist"

your argument for "revelation" is simply an argument for GNOSIS
Are you serious or simply being ignorant? 

"tons of gods exist". Okay, if that is so, who are they? And when you say they exist? Do you mean exist as in actually exist or that exist as concepts? 

As for revelation being gnosis, you are going to have to articulate that further before I engage. 
#88
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@Tradesecret
As for revelation being gnosis, you are going to have to articulate that further before I engage.
GNOSIS refers to spiritual or mystical knowledge gained through direct personal experience
#89
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@3RU7AL
So do you reject direct personal experience? 

I would suggest there is a further qualification to it. It is the direct personal experience to gain a spiritual or mystical knowledge that no one else has the capacity to obtain.  Almost priestlike.  It's the sort of spiritual knowledge that Stephen has. No one else comes to the same conclusions regarding the Bible but him. No one reading the same scriptures would ordinarily come to same conclusion unless they were led to it by him.  He is a priest in that sense. 

Most people simply read the Bible and come to the same conclusions about most of it. That is because most people can read at a simple level and comprehend what they are reading. Most misunderstandings about the Bible come about from not differentiating the genres involved. That's why the book of Revelation is difficult to read. And why there is so much confusion. If you read it literally, it will lead you down many roads. Understanding it is apocaplytic genre, containing lots of poetry and which is to be understood using the OT assists in understanding it. 

It's the alleged secret meanings that are mystical and more gnostic like. Again, Stephen, is the arch type of this person on this site. My views are very well within the mainstream of historical Christianity. I learnt how to read different genres however in a secular school. And read a wonderful book named "How to read a Book". It's free and available on PDF for those who want to look - it's by Mortimer J Adler and Charles Van Daren. I highly recommend it if you want to know how to read books properly.  It's not a Christian book. it's not even religious.  But the methodology they use is the type I use. It is not therefore mystical knowledge, although it is direct personal experience. That latter thing is something no one can exclude. 

By the way, since I begin with the Bible, it is my starting point for theology and theological experiences. I don't start with a theological experience and let that determine my theology. That might sound silly, but for me it's a point of contention with others. 
#90
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I purchased a top dollar trail cam .

Ive had it for over a month now. 

Of course i don't believe in god .
Butttt. 
. 
If i set that bitch up , at the back of my house. 
WITHIN THE FUCKING first WEEK .  
I'll have God pop up.
And it will scare me and.  
He will. 

I'll have ghosts floating around . 
The  Orb things. 
Little girls. 
Maybe even a skinwalker. 

A atheist isn't meant to see shit like that. 

ILL BE TRAUMATIZED FOR SURE. 
SOOOOO.
I'M TELLING YOU ALL NOW RIGHT.M

IM NOT GOING TO SET IT UP. 
NOPE. 

YOU CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES.   

You guys are Sooo anoying. 
Im going. 


▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•○••▪○•

With a mega influx of door bell cams  trail cams , phone cams drone cams.
James web cams .  Body cams. .
Nanny cams . 
Spy cam. 
Box of tissues cams .

With this . 
Any day now we will have god slip up and reveal himself. 
It probably wont count as proof. 
Butttt, its something right Guys . 

I SAID. NOOOOOOOOO. 
I'M NOT SETTING MY DAM CAM.  
DON'T START AGAIN.