Instigator / Pro
1
1485
rating
19
debates
44.74%
won
Topic
#5801
I am more Pro Israel, looking to debate a Pro-Palestine/Anti-Israel/Anti-Zionist
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
1
0
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
SocraticGregarian96
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 20,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1495
rating
13
debates
53.85%
won
Description
Lay it all out on the table for me. Say why you support one side, I’ll say why I support the other. I don’t mind if you get nasty or even call me names, just understand that I will regardless. Looking foward!
Round 1
Pro
#1
Palestinians have been kicked out of every country they’ve been a part of. Ever.
Here’s a brief overview:
-1970 & 1971: expelled from Jordan for threatening Jordnaians’ freedoms and trying to lead a revolt against Jordan
-1991: expelled from Kuwait for supporting Sadam Hussein’s terrorsim
-1970’s & 1980’s: expelled from Lebanon for taking terrorists’ side in the lebanese civil war
-2011-present: expelled from Syria for also taking terrorists’ side in the syrian civil war
-2003-present: expelled from Iraq for being linked to Hussein’s regime
-PRESENT: Egypt refuses to absorb palestinians to this day, for they have been a social and economic burden on all the countries they were expelled from.
Now, let’s jump to 2005, when Israel literally evacuated Israelis from their homes in Gaza, gave it over to the Palestinians after absorbing them post egyptian war, and offered them civil liberties and hundreds of billions in funding.
With their new freedom and money, you might ask, what did they do?
They elected Hamas, (which we can get into the horrors if Hamas, but I doubt that you are pro-hamas) and turned the once-thriving Gaza into an absolute wasteland.
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Let’s talk about 10/7.
A brutal terrorist orginization, Hamas, launched a disgusting attack on the sovereignty of Israel.
In response, Israel defended itself by eradicating Hamas, which they are still in the proccess of. I won’t get into the intricacies of the war, like how Hezbollah in Lebanon, Houthis in Yemen, or Iran is as well a factor at play, but what is important is this:
I fully condemn the death of Palestinians based on this war. When you look at the reasons of death and the numbers at play, however, you will see how you were sold a bad bill of goods.
First, let’s get the facts straight.
-around 70% of palestinians support this war and want Hamas to win (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
-around 40k palestinians have died
Every Palestinian that has died is a direct effect of Hamas’ initiation of this war (which Palestinians support) and is because of Hamas’ human shield policies. Hamas uses the Palestinians as human shields while they hide smugly in their terror tunnels which Iran built for them:
WIKIPEDIA:"During the Israel–Hamas war of 2023–2024, EU nations accused Hamas of using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[12][13] In 2023, HRW said that "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[14] In 2024, HRW reported at least two incidents where Palestinian fighters appear to have used Israeli hostages as human shields during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel.[15] According to the New York Times, some Gazans showed opposition to their usage as human shields by Hamas and some have refused the entry of militants to some shelters.[16]” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas)
Second, the population of Palestinians (which, if you do your research, you’ll find that Palestine is not actually a real place, and was a play on “the Philistines,” a group that genocided the Jews but that’s besides the point,) you’ll find that there are about 14 million Palestinians alive today. 40 thousand have died in this war. That is 0.35% of their population. In what world is killing 0.35% of a population a genocide? Even if it was intentional by the IDF (which I have proven that it isn’t,) it is not a genocide!
A real genocide is when 6 out of 17 million jews, roughly 35% were killed, as happened in the holocaust!
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I can go further, as Israel stands as the ONLY ally to America, the ONLY democracy in the Middle East. Were it to fall, that region of the world. would become even more volatile, a threat to all of western civilization. De facto, Israel is doing the world a favor by combatting their opposing militant forces in Hamas and Hezbollah.
Now tell me, Sir, why do you oppose Israel and/or support Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Palestine (which isn’t even a real place!)
Round 2
Con
#4
The worst thing is the sense of being a stranger in your own land and feeling that not a single part of it is yours
there's a difference between kind and brutal ,
In Gaza (sub-occupied by Israel and remains of Palestine) :
Oceans of tears ....... from eyes of kids dominated the smile of life today
lips of kids that were wet and smile before today ..... r dry and cry today
eyes of kids that were happy and shining before today .......... r sad and dark today
love for mankind is the thing what make us , ambition to destroy humans is not that reveal peace or prosperity for mankind
but some think they can do everything against the humans for their ambition .......
for that purpose , they kill humans and when humans try to defend , they killed by them even they r the attackers and lords to make horrible things
they kill humans and killed by them but in both conditions humans r bad according to them ,
even sometimes they consider humans as sub-humans .
but the thing is that their ideology is the disaster for not only themselves but for whole mankind.....
they divide mankind into two categories tools and enemies .......
they do what they like to do against humans ...... and they call this a great thing to do
but
how i refer this dark night to dawn
Israel is a foreign project of Europe and USA , to invade the peaceful holy land of Palestine and make a great James Town there , and for that ambition they cross every line and break every law .
we see that how colonial powers invade the humanity for their personal ambitions and for the sack of power . leaders of Israel don't see the reality and r drunk becoz of unlimited foreign contribution in invading of Palestine and their slogans r to destroy the reamings of Palestine
For half a century, Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip has resulted in systematic human rights violations against Palestinians living there.
I'm just a human and belive in humanity without influenced by any religion or ideology , i want This Terrible War Must End for the welfare of mankind and we need to resolve that problem without any violence or use of harmful weapons , we need to understand that negotiation is the best weapon for defense of mankind and to resolve any problem , we all must need to understand it.
Round 3
Pro
#5
"The worst thing is the sense of being a stranger in your own land and feeling that not a single part of it is yours"
You do not know what you are talking about bud. . . let’s take a history lesson together. And I will provide sources unlike you for the skeptics reading this.
There is no “country” called Palestine. It is a fallacy that was "used widely as a self-identification by Palestinians from the start of the 20th century onwards.[28]” (SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine)
In fact, the name “Palestine” is wordplay on the Philistines, a group who:
• oppressed and dominated the Israelites for extended periods (Judges 13:1).
• frequently raided Israelite towns, destroying crops, stealing livestock, and wreaking havoc unprovoked (Judges 6:4).
• killed many Israelites and took captives in battles (1 Samuel 4:10–11).
• The Ark of the Covenant was captured and kept as a trophy (1 Samuel 4:11).
• The Ark of the Covenant was placed in the temple of Dagon (1 Samuel 5:2).
• King Saul's body was desecrated and his armor sent as a trophy (1 Samuel 31:9–10).
• The Philistines banned blacksmiths, disarming the Israelites (1 Samuel 13:19–22).
If this is who the Palestinians seek to emulate, why do they deserve their own country? Especially when they’ve been offered the option to have their own country at least 7 times between 1947-2008? Not only have they declined numerous times a two-state solution, but they have launched relentless and unprovoked attacks on Israeli soil! Even further, they have turned Gaza into an absolute terrorist shithole despite being granted and subsidized in the billions by the Israeli government!
"In Gaza (sub-occupied by Israel and remains of Palestine)"
You are half-correct but missing one key element. A good analogy is sort of like how Puerto Rico is an American territory yet not part of the Union; Gaza is an Israeli territory yet not actually occupied by Israel. If we go back to our Israeli history lesson, we will see that “in 2005, 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and four Israeli settlements in the West Bank were unilaterally dismantled.”
(You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip )
Israel actually evacuated Israeli citizens in Gaza from their own homes, in order to give over the region to the Palestinians!
even sometimes they consider humans as sub-humans . but the thing is that their ideology is the disaster for not only themselves but for whole mankind.....
First off, I’ll address the notion that Israelis treat Palestinians as 'less-than’ or ’sub-human.’
- In Israel, healthcare for Palestinian patients receiving medical treatment exists. In Gaza, it does not.
- In Israel, job opportunities for Palestinian workers exist. In Gaza, it does not
- Israeli universities offer educational opportunities for Palestinian students. In Gaza, they do not.
- Humanitarian aid is provided by Israeli soldiers and the IDF during emergencies or a crisis. But Palestinian soldiers never give aid to Israeli citizens, they only bomb them intentionally and then cry victim when Israel retaliates...
Secondly, I’ll address the notion that Israeli ideology is a disaster for themselves and for mankind.
- Wix, Mobileye, Checkpoint, CyberArk, PillCam, the Israeli cancer vaccine, Netafim, the first drip irrigation system, Fiverr, El Al airlines, and the other top Israeli companies
- Israel is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East.
- Were Israel to fall, G-d forbid, the next target would be America. (Houthi’s literal slogan is “Death to Israel, death to America.”)
- Other Muslim counties have been more of a strain in the world than Israel has. Muslims tend to invade Western countries and impose or attempt to impose the Sharia law which they have just fled, whereas Israelis tend to assimilate into the culture more or at the very least, they don’t force others to be Jewish or like them.
leaders of Israel don't see the reality and r drunk becoz of unlimited foreign contribution in invading of Palestine and their slogans r to destroy the reamings of Palestine
I honestly can't comprehend what you’re trying to say here; however, this is certainly a deduction from your legibility. You don’t need to have perfect grammar, but “r drunk becoz” will not cut it for this debate.
Either way though, it’s irrelevent. That is to say, I don’t even need to beat you on legibility, since you’re also losing on substance.
Con
#6
Ur name is pretty beautiful, i like it and its mean
and the more beautiful thing is that i like to learn lessons of history from U as u say
but the thing is that my pretty teacher u still teach me like my f** teachers of school , those who just say a pie of truth and a bundle of lies.....
, my dear let me know! if someone kill ur/our father in front of u and beat ur/our mother and humiliate ur/our sister in front of u and harasse u .............. what i expect from u , when u get old , what u do with that person (what i do , what u do , what everyone do ) , .......... revenge , blood , hate , violence ( everyone is not Jesus , so don't expect another thing like love, peace....... ) , who is cause/criminal/father of hate , violence ,bad ......... someone who do that shit with ur/our family
Wix, CyberArk , Israeli cancer vaccine , Fiverr ..... other top Israeli companies ....... Israel is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East......do u think its means Israel have right to kill humans ......... SocraticGregarian awake up , what's going to ,
u seems right , in wronge way according to these wronge things
That's the slogans of Islamophobic / Anti-Islam
Muslims tend to invade Western countries and impose or attempt to impose the Sharia law , .......
That's the slogans of Antisemitism / Anti-Judaism
Jews r bad , fu** ppl ugly , low level humans ,they r evil , Due to jews we Europe suffers alot ....
both r f**** wronge , but the difference is that one is made by my beloved SocraticGregarian and the other is made by f**** racist monsters , that's not true
An Unjust law is not law at all
For Ur Information:
Israel Helping Create Hamas and now Bombing It , its same like American strategy against Soviet Union , from helping Islamic militants to invading them , in result destroy the natives and their motherland
fathers of Islamic-militants r killing them today
" Hamas to my Great Regret , Is Israel's Creation "
" Islamic-militants r wronge and by wronge ( i know u know who is that wronge ) , these militants r much bad for Islam and for Muslims and then to others "but only if u know the ground reality
Extra thing just for SocraticGregarian
U need to think Y there's attack from Gaza not from West Bank ?
SocraticGregarian u see i don't try to make lies but try to reveal the truth to u , its not beautiful but yeah its true , i know u know what i say
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro argues that the actions of Hamas justify an Israeli response, as well as a pro-Zionist argument, using the Bible as a source to argue that the Palestinians have no right to the land in which they live. Whatever the merits of the latter argument, Con's responses were nearly incomprehensible. One can gather that Con is arguing that Israel is a settler-colonial project which has committed many atrocities. But Pro made the more coherent argument, used actual data points rather than just opinion, and did a better job responding to Con's points. That, plus the alarming level of grammar from the other side, gives the debate to Pro.
I don’t mean to be rude, but what are your responses supposed to mean exactly? They’re almost completely incomprehensible.
Alright, I made the debate.
I would be willing to argue for the proposition "Palestinians should have their own country". It seems like you oppose that, though I could be mistaken.
We could also do something about Israel's conduct in the war, though morality debates are tricky.
Or something generally political, not necessarily about Israel.
"I believe countries that expel Jews tend to also cite reasons for it...Such as accusing them of economic parasitism, disloyalty, undermining the government or culture, blood libel, and so on.”
I don’t disagree. Let’s look at some examples throughout history of where and why Jews have been expelled. (And no, I didn’t cherrypick the ones that fit a pro-Israel narrative, I asked ChatGPT to pick a diverse myriad of countries)
England (1290): Jews were expelled under King Edward I due to economic resentment and anti-Semitic myths.
France (1306, 1394): Expelled to cancel debts and confiscate property, fueled by Catholic anti-Jewish sentiment.
Spain (1492): The Alhambra Decree forced Jews to convert or leave, driven by the Inquisition and Catholic unification.
Portugal (1496): Expelled under royal pressure for religious conformity.
Russia/Soviet Union (19th–20th centuries): Pogroms and restrictive laws targeted Jews under nationalism and anti-Semitism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union)
Middle Eastern Countries (20th century): The Arab-Israeli conflict led to Jewish expulsions after 1948.
"I would be happy to debate about something, I don't know exactly what. I'm not really pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist though. I just oppose prejudice against any ethnic group, including Palestinians.”
We could debate about Palestinian vs. Jewish expulsion; although, I believe I’ve already proved my points, so maybe we should debate something else.
" your arguments gave me a headache, but I won't waste my time proving them wrong in a comment section honestly.”
I’ll offer you the same proposal as I did my opponent, AnonYmous_Icon: if you are going to say my arguments suck, then you’ve gotta to tell my why and how. My opponent has not done this, but hopefully you will.
"You are being inconsiderate with your sources, the UN you stated spoke against Hammas spoke against Israel and it's acts as well, you could have been fair and brought that out too.”
You are unclear here. What are you referencing in regard to the UN?
The UN is pretty antisemitic and even they admit that Hamas uses Palestinians as Human Shields; that was my point when I cited them as a source. I don’t understand what else you wanted me to mention.
Ouch, ouch, OUCH! My head hurt me, you really like one sided arguments, don't you? I wish I found this debate first, your arguments gave me a headache, but I won't waste my time proving them wrong in a comment section honestly. Just one critique though, You are being inconsiderate with your sources, the UN you stated spoke against Hammas spoke against Israel and it's acts as well, you could have been fair and brought that out too. But I guess picking a side forces one to hide anything that don't support their ideology, no?
I believe countries that expel Jews tend to also cite reasons for it other than "We hate Jews". Such as accusing them of economic parasitism, disloyalty, undermining the government or culture, blood libel, and so on.
I would be happy to debate about something, I don't know exactly what. I'm not really pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist though. I just oppose prejudice against any ethnic group, including Palestinians.
If I were truly lying, as you allege, then please outline what I have lied about in your final Debate argument.
I think you're winning this debate so far.
by all ur statements i realize that u r strongly influenced by Jews propaganda and then Zionist ideologies ,
truth is not in Jews neither Zionist , not in Muslims nor Christians
do u know Y i don't say something , becoz i see u caged ur self in some imaginary cage that is created by liars of some ideology
u never find the truth in any cage of anyone , truth is independent u need to understand that
u need to consider ur self as a human not a puppet of any religion/ideology
then u see truth is not what ppl of ideology/religion taught u
do u know ur a person , who am i when i'm child ,
whatever u say is a childish words , uncaged ur-self from and become free thinker
OUR BELOVED SOCRATES DON'T BELIVE IN FAKE GODS
"The Palestinians have been kicked out of every country they've ever been a part of" as an argument for the inherent evil of Palestinians is a dangerous one to make."
I made that argument to show that they are a group that causes trouble wherever they go, hence why they end up getting kicked out. Read my first argument and you will see explicitly the kind of trouble that they cause in the countries that exile them
"Especially when you apply the same logic to the other side.”
This is the differentiation that you fail to see.
Historically, when the Palestinians are expelled from a country, (as I talk about at length in my first argument) it’s because they have lead revolts, caused wars, take terrorists' side in a civil war, are terrorists themselves and because they are a social and economic burden on the country. Jordan, Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are all countries that have expelled and refuse to absorb Palestinians.
When Jews are expelled from a country, it’s usually because they are Jewish, and that particular country sees Jews as inferior. Take, for example, when Spain expelled its Jewish population in 1492 through the Alhambra Decree by Ferdinand and Isabella. The Spanish monarchs wanted Catholicism. So, they forced Jews to either convert to Christianity or leave the kingdom.
Want to debate about it?
If I’ve lied, then point it out. In fact, I point out some of your lies in my third argument.
"The Palestinians have been kicked out of every country they've ever been a part of" as an argument for the inherent evil of Palestinians is a dangerous one to make. Especially when you apply the same logic to the other side.
u r a good liar , i'm not good as u r
but i try to learn to make a lies like u