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Been awhile since we had a referendum, but various issues with the voting policy have not gone unnoticed. So I've worked out a bunch of potential refinements; which I am hoping we can discuss, improve, and then formalize with a vote in the near future.
As I've had to say before, I am happy to break apart many of the changes, but I'm not going to do a line-by-line thousand question referendum.
Stuff not related to the voting policy is also welcome for the referendum. Just suggest it, and if there's explicit support and no good reason not to, it'll go in.
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DebateArt.com
Hey DART.
I'm hoping to post a MEEP soon. MEEP stands for Moderation Engagement and Enactment Process, it is a referendum on site policies.
This one will focus this on on refining the voting policies. Please submit any ideas for changes, addendums, etc.
Current questions which have been raised (will be updated as this thread progresses):
- Should waiving rounds count as poor conduct equal to forfeitures?
- Should Full Forfeits be broadened to missing every round after their first argument?
Such as someone forfeits the first round, shows up in the second or third, and forfeits the remainder. - Allow implicit justifications for lesser points?
I need better wording for this, but in essence not needing the spell out the absence of things. Such as one side having a dozen .gov and .edu sources, sure their impact needs to be mentioned if giving sources, but the other side having none and not challenging them is self evident at a glance. - Less stringent justification for counter points?
This may be a weird one, I don't know if it will make the cut into the referendum... So let's say someone gives you arguments and sources but gives the other side conduct and doesn't dot the i's and cross the t's on that part; with this change, the vote would not be removed so long as the primary points are justified to the standard... And yes, I have seen tactical vote reporting along these lines, wherein someone waits until near the end of the voting window to report such a vote against them.
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DebateArt.com
The current voting policy (sans update to S&G) can be viewed at: https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
I'm hoping people have ideas for improvements. So if so, please share them.
One example might be other voting paradigms which lead to valid votes. Another might be changing the point allotements within the categories. Etc.
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DebateArt.com
Hey DART!
I'm planning to make an un-official MEEP/opinion poll to gather the community's stance on various questions that I have thought of and/or seen floating around in the forums. I am hoping that it will be posted sometime next week.
Even though this is a non-binding un-official MEEP, it is sanctioned by the mods and the results could influence moderation policies and the implementation of future site features.
In this thread, I will be previewing some of the questions to be voted on and discussed, as well as inviting all of you to suggest additional questions and refinements. Please note that there is no guarantee of any of the community-raised questions making it in.
Below are questions s I already intend to include:
1. Do you agree or disagree with the following clause in the new COC:
Removal of the harassing the moderators is ok rule (don’t worry, we’ll still have thick skin).
2. Are you for or against mods being allowed to vote in future MEEPs? Note that there are multiple options for this question:
- "Yes1" indicates a preference for banning all moderators from voting on referendums.
- "Yes2" indicates a preference for banning the chief and deputy moderators from voting on referendums.
- "Yes3" indicates a preference for limiting the chief and deputy from voting, save for breaking stalemates.
- "No" indicates opposition to this refinement.
3. Are you for or against votes being reported on (and possibly removed) after the voting period is finished?
4. Are you for or against the implementation of a DDO-esque polling section in DART?
Again, feel free to make any suggestions!
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DebateArt.com
Hey DART.
I'm hoping to post a MEEP next week. MEEP stands for Moderation Engagement and Enactment Process, it is a referendum on site policies.
In this thread I will preview some of the questions to be discussed, and I invite you to suggest additional questions and refinements. Importantly, just because a question is suggested or seconded does not guarantee it will be included. Below are issues I already intend to include:
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1. Ratify the new Code of Conduct?
Voting "yes" to this question will overhaul and streamline the Code of Conduct.
A few key changes:
- Removal of the trolling and insults rules, but adding a no targeted harassment rule.
- Removal of the harassing the moderators is ok rule (don’t worry, we’ll still have thick skin).
- Added clauses to protect children.
Full text is available at (with live updates): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DT0dprecA-ehRtRHO4tDPmUZel4hlUrWKdydLbyFlKk/edit?usp=sharing
And at (frozen draft): https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4214/post-links/173638
2. Allow PM sharing with moderator approval?
Voting “yes” would add a clause to the no sharing of Private Messages rule, to allow moderators to grant permission to settle disputes.
Currently there have been outright lies about the contents of PMs, and the victims are without real recourse. This is intended to correct that oversight.
3. Change the Voting Policy to have S&G to include organization
Voting “yes” would amend the Spelling and Grammar in the Voting Policy, to allow consideration of organizational issues, such as a 10,000 character true wall of text (no line breaks) vs a case which is easy to navigate.
Note: This is intended to inform a larger effort to overhaul the voting policies in a similar manner to the CoC.
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Again, feel free to make any suggestions.
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DebateArt.com
Hey everyone, Ragnar here. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m the deputy moderator.
This thread is an attempt to generate a useful pinned thread to teach people expectations for using the controversial forums. Feedback is highly encouraged. After a couple iterations of editing, I hope to copy/paste the final result into a new pinned and locked thread, then move this one to the archive.
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Words of Wisdom:
“Despite our own fervency. Religion nonetheless does not offer up any definitive answers. Therefore we must always be tolerant of opposing beliefs and opinions.”-Zedvictor4
Please submit any others, especially for topics other than religion.
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Formatting Best Practices:
For actual debates, I highly suggest referencing the guide. However, for general forum use, just obey a few simple rules:
- Space between things is useful if you wish to be legible,
- Don’t bold and/or CAPITALIZE all of your text, and
- Don’t misquote other users.
Regarding the quote tool (just right of the underline button when making a post), bare in mind it adds an extra space after its paragraphs; so if replying just after it, use a couple line breaks around each section.
Correct Way
What’s being replied to...
Reply to the above, followed by two line breaks to separate it from the next point of discussion.
What’s being replied to next...
Reply to the above..
Wrong Way
What’s being replied to...
Reply to the above, disguised to look like it’s replying to what’s below; adding needless confusion.
What’s being replied to next
Reply to the above..
The problem with this is there are no extra line breaks, which clusters the wrong bits together. That the formatting does this is known, so use the extra line breaks.
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Code of Conduct:
There are two frequently relevant sections of the CoC:
Personal Attacks
This is not a ban on disagreements, or even using what someone said to make them look bad (this can be done in a civilized manner). In general, just don’t be varelse.
Other Prohibited Conduct
If it’s obviously wrong, don’t do it. However the big ones to which there have been repeated issues...
NEVER:
- Share private information (however it was attained)
- Impersonate anyone! (misrepresenting what was said can rise to this level)
Examples
Expressing frustration with immaturity:
- Borderline: “The job of moderation is not to be your surrogate parents.”Problematic, but not outright vile.
- Wrong: “Clearly your daddy didn’t beat you enough, so I'm going to take your mom out to a nice dinner; don’t wait up...”Don’t start imagining things about peoples upbringing, especially not to insinuate child abuse, or infer intent to... Just don’t ok?
Response to mind reading:
- Borderline: “I didn’t know you have super powers to know what I was thinking! What’s it like to be a superhero?”Sarcasm is usually warranted, and as an isolated case it does not cross the line into excessive trolling.
- Wrong: “Oh yeah? You’re a Nazi!”Accusing someone of direct involvement with genocide, is almost never warranted.(This example had to go in here somewhere, and I did not have any good bad reply to the common BS of members claiming to know what someone else is thinking)
Please submit more hypothetical examples, and suggest any refinements to the above (layout and/or content). Of course this is not a call out thread, so name types of behaviors, but not users who commit them. The basic idea here is to make people aware first that there is a line to be crossed, and further about where that line is (without getting too ugly).
Reporting
If someone is harassing you (or anyone else), click on the flag icon in the top right of their post (just left of the thumbs up). If context is needed, message a moderator directly.
To be clear, the Reasonable Person standard is applied. You being “triggered” is not enough. However, if you've asked someone to cease and desist, and they follow you around (possibly encouraged by that rejection), matters against them are viewed more seriously than if they had no idea anyone considered their conduct problematic.
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Trolls (and comedy):
A troll is a mythic cave dwelling being, with an appetite for billygoats.
Nothing attracts trolls like attempts at intelligent discourse. They are usually best handled by simply ignoring them.
We admittedly don't have the best definition of trolling:
Trolling is the use of inflammatory language or extreme and unsupported claims aimed at provoking a negative emotional response. Excessive trolling is strongly discouraged and is prohibited when it significantly interferes with site user experience.
Overly sensitive users are going to accuse anyone who so much as cracks of joke (or corrects them) of being a malicious troll, so I will use the term a bit open-endedly.
There are three types of trolls (or with vulgarity):
- Clowns who are not necessarily trying to inspire anger.
- Losers with nothing better to do with their lives than try to anger strangers.
- Idiots who say things so stupid you mistake them for the Type 1 or Type 2, but they lack the mental facilities to do it intentionally.
So if engaging in comedy, please keep the following in mind:
- Lots of people will see it, so try to make it more about entertaining the audience, rather than hurting anyone's feelings.
- Never forget Poe's Law. The one time a feminist talks in satire about how women are weakened by their right to vote, someone will mistake them for being serious.
- Don't do mindless insults. Just calling someone a retard makes you look uninspired. It's much better to properly evaluate their logic, point out every flaw in it, and leave them being a mentally deficient the unspoken but only rational conclusion from the evidence.
- Don't stalk people. Their interactions on a different topic in a different thread, is not the time to bring up old dirt. Certainly never make threads calling them out by name.
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Next Section:
Other sections to follow as someone thinks of them...
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DebateArt.com
This thread topic is for discussion of how to improve the forums. Please give feedback, ask questions, and suggest refinements; or even state ideas related to the forums in wholly different directions.
There is no set schedule for when any changes would roll out. And of course, if the greater community is opposed to change, no change at all will occur.
Current State:
There are 22 forums, most of which are not particularly utilized.
- DebateArt.com
- Art
- Cars
- Economics
- Education
- Fashion
- Games
- Health
- Miscellaneous
- Movies
- Music
- Nature
- People
- Personal
- Philosophy
- Politics
- Religion
- Science
- Society
- Sports
- Technology
- TV
Proposed State (first draft):
This would end with only 9 forums. This is a steep decrease, but will hopefully avoid the current problem of ghost forums. I however I not attached to any precise number.
- DebateArt.com (Community)
- DebateArt.com (Site Management)
- Mafia (and other forum games)
- Artistic Expression (community generated art, music, writing, etc.)
- Politics, Society, and History
- Health, Science, and Technology
- Philosophy and Religion
- Entertainment Industry (Music, Movies, Sports, TV, Video Games, etc.)
- Miscellaneous
Working Draft (updated at 15:30 PST 11/26):
This will be edited by any moderator (probably Ragnar, but all have my permission), so new members joining the discussion need not wade through everything to understand the current state of the proposal. As of 11/19, descriptions are on the second line of each entry.
- DART Site ManagementDebateArt.com administrative matters, rules, refinements, and more.
- DART Community HubFor the users and by the users, this is the main social hub.
- Artistic ExpressionCommunity generated art, music, writing, etc.
- Current EventsNews and various micro events of the day.
- Entertainment IndustryMovies, TV, music, celebrities, etc.
- Mafia HubMafia and other forum games.
- GamingVideo gaming and related technicality, plus any discussion of board games, etc.
- PhilosophyEpistemology, Logic, Metaphysics, Ethics, and Aesthetics.
- ReligionSpirituality, faith, and religious concepts.
- Science and NatureThe natural world and the systematic study thereof.
- SocietyPolitics, History, Economics, etc.
- SportsNeeding to shoot a 3-pointer while screaming Kobe? This is the forum for you. Just don't airball!
- ArchivePrimarily for outmoded administrative threads.
- MiscellaneousEverything not covered within the other categories...
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